• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:02
CEST 04:02
KST 11:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL23Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak15
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 19-25): Hindsight is 20/20?0DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack8[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage2EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)19Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3
StarCraft 2
General
Karma, Domino Effect, and how it relates to SC2. The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN Can anyone explain to me why u cant veto a matchup
Tourneys
EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) DreamHack Dallas 2025 Last Chance Qualifiers for OlimoLeague 2024 Winter [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group B [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO12 - Group A
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat
Brood War
General
Battle.net is not working BW General Discussion Which player typ excels at which race or match up? Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET [BSL20] RO20 Group D - Sunday 20:00 CET [BSL20] RO20 Group B - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Monster Hunter Wilds Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread All you football fans (soccer)! European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 14296 users

The ideal pocket calculator?

Blogs > [F_]aths
Post a Reply
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-12 11:55:40
May 24 2012 10:30 GMT
#1
Since 1995, I use pocket calculators quite frequently. I noticed that no calculator is optimal. Newer machines were even more convoluted. Who develops pocket calculators? Are those guys even using their own ones? I need the functionality to not get in my way when I want to perform easy calculations, yet I do need access to advanced functions, too.

Now in 2012, my quest seems to be over as I probably found my machine. Before I begin, let's state that this fine piece of technology probably isn't for you. Once, you cannot hide trailing zeros after the decimal point. Even worse, this calculator only operates in RPN mode. The commonly used algebraic mode isn't even an option! However I got used to RPN on another HP device and find it more efficient and more elegant than the algebraic mode.


[image loading]

5x3 inches case size means it fits in my shirt bag.



The mechanics

I bought an HP-15c Limited Edition. It cost me outraging 80 €. You can get calculators with a lot more functions for half the price. Still, I don't regret the purchase a single bit.

This calculator has a single-line display. No distraction with seeing two numbers at once. The single-line display keeps the form factor small and handy, I can actually put the 15c in my shirt bag. It is a true pocket calculator.

The display has very good contrast. It does NOT use dots to compose the digit glyphs, it uses a 7-segment display instead. One can swap point and comma for decimal separator and thousand separator. As I am from Germany, I use the comma as decimal separator.

Then the keyboard! Forget your cheap Casio keys. This machine has wedge-shaped keys which also give you some feedback when you press them. I doubt this re-release of the HP-15c offers the same mechanical quality of the original machine, but it's still above other calculators I own.


Layout

The best thing on this device is the extremely well thought-out layout. Keys are arranged in 4 rows and 10 columns. The entire right half is used for number entry and basic arithmetics. The Enter key spans two rows. The left part of the keyboard offers scientific functions and commands for programming.

I looked for something to complain, but didn't find a fault with anything. In fact I have to praise the logical stringency of the key assignment. Any single key position and function assignment feels natural. For example, the 1/x operation and the change sign operation are on keys next to each other.

The backspace key also offers to clear the entire X register with down-shift. The key to change the sign allows to cut any sign (calculate the absolute value) with down shift. FRAC and INT are on the same key, just with a different shift. Shifted functions like the FIX, SCI and ENG options are easy to find.

There are shortcuts to run programs. No “File” submenu or something. Anything can be reached directly through the keyboard.


Less use of the shift key

STO and RCL for variable usage are available without shift. It is also possible to perform some calculations to change a variable value without the need to recall it first. Register scrolling (an RPN feature) and X-Y register swapping are available without shift, too. 1/x and y^x are available without shift, again. I use those functions frequently.

Some operations need an function on a shift key while that shifted function is the only logical input from that key. The calculator smartly knows this so in this case one can omit the shift key.


Functions

The 15c offers most of the functions you expect from a scientific calculator. Percentage difference calculation is also offered. I need this rather often at work.

Complex numbers are supported, though the handling of them is a bit tricky since only one component (real or imaginary) can be displayed at a time. Most functions work seamlessly in complex mode, including trigonometric functions. The calculation of e^-iπ results in a small error in the imaginary part as π cannot be represented accurately with a limited number of digits.

Some functions like matrix operations are limited to real numbers though, but it is possible to effectively work with complex matrices with some extra steps.

The statistic functions are limited to linear regression. No other approximation is provided. The gamma function is offered, though. Numerical root-solving is available, too, as is numerical integration.

Considering the single-line display, matrix handling is surprisingly practical on the 15c. Many calculator operations work with matrices, it is also possible to calculate some norm forms or the determinant of a matrix. It is very easy to invert a matrix. So linear equations can be solved very efficiently. The calculator offers a user mode which automatically shifts the index one further when STO or RCL is used to set or recall matrix elements.


Programming

I sometimes need the logarithm to the base of two, and the according anti-logarithm 2^x. So I programmed those functions to complete my calculator. One can use up to five letter labels (A - E) for programs, up to 10 number labels (0-9) and 10 more labels (with a leading decimal point.) The letter labels are the quickest to reach, the other 20 can be called with GSB (Gosub.) Thankfully, GSB doesn't require a shift.

In user mode, one does not even need to use the shift key to call a letter program. The original functions on those keys do not vanish in this mode, they are still available but through shift this time. Sometimes I need to add or subtract VAT or convert between currencies. Thanks to the user mode I can use the 15c like a simple business calculator, too, and perform these operations with a single keystroke.

The programming capability doesn't clutter up the keyboard by much, only 4 of the 39 keys are mainly used for programming.

Now you laugh about the calculator's memory of mere 448 free bytes, shared between programs and user data. A number occupies 7 bytes of the precious memory. Still the capacity is sufficient to actually write programs. The total memory capacity seems to be 512 bytes, but some memory is needed for the RPN stack and internal registers / flags.

There is even a good thing about the limited space: Both the count of instructions as well as the maximum data for matrices (up to 64 numbers spread over a maximum of 5 matrices) can be grasped by the human mind.

Of course, indirect addressing is supported for programming purposes. Conditional branches and user flags can be used. Looping and nested subroutine calls are available. The user also has control over the memory allocation. But all those things are not getting in the way when one wants to quickly record a macro to perform a sequence of calculations for different values.


Now it gets a bit silly

The key to _ch_ange _s_ign is not labelled +/- or (-). Instead it's CHS. I find +/- and (-) a bit distracting as I consider it a mathematical operation at a first glance. CHS is much better! Similar, the key to _e_nter the _ex_ponent is not just E, it is EEX. When I see “E” I often wonder if they mean e, but used a capital letter, or is it somehow a variable called E? EEX on the other hand is clear.

No matter if I use the calculator while it is placed on the desk, or if I hold it in my hands, I can reach the keys I need to use with easy. The size seems to be right. Keys are not too big and there is enough space in-between to avoid the accidental press of a wrong key.

The display has only 10 digits and the calculator also uses just a 10 decimal digits for the mantissa. So there are no hidden digits. I considered this a disadvantage at first, but then noticed that this lets me check for rounding errors after each operation. The 15c doesn't look fancy, it has a clear design which just tells you "use me to compute the value you are looking for."


Back to sanity

Is the 15c perfect? No, but mainly because one cannot have two things which are mutually exclusive.

Of course I own other calculators, offering a fraction mode, a way more convenient usage of complex numbers, a more powerful equation solver and other things. But almost any calculation I need to be done can be performed on the 15c with fewer keystrokes compared to other models I own. The neat thing is: When I just need to divide two numbers, I still use the 15c, because simple calculations can be performed in an efficient way, too. That is why this addition to my calculators became the most frequently used machine, by far. The programmability also expands the usage, for example I can have my binary logarithm. Or VAT calculations.

According to Wikipedia, the original 15c was released in 1982. That means: 30 years ago. The technology available at that time obviously limited the functionality which could be implemented at a particular price point, so HP really needed to choose. The development was probably done by guys who design calculators to use those themselves. The result is a feat of engineering which can hardly be praised too much.

Even when I do some simple math for Diablo 3 item bonus calculations, I use the 15c. When I need to compute the difference of two intervals on a musical scale, I use the 15c, too. For more complex calculation I can quickly program this machine without learning a programming language as I just record a sequence of keystrokes.

This device delivers an experience which transcends the everyday calculator. Instead of having the feeling to operate a machine, I just perform a calculation.

The limited edition number of my device is 21856. Why isn't this calculator still in normal production?

****
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
May 24 2012 11:48 GMT
#2
This might be a good calculator to actually work with, however for school exercises, I prefer a calculator where you can see what you just calculated (to check for errors). And that is the problem for calculators nowadays, I think. The vast majority are made for children in school, considering that most of the people who could be using one of these in their work, already work on a computer in the first place. :-/
Zorkmid
Profile Joined November 2008
4410 Posts
May 24 2012 13:00 GMT
#3
My old boss had one of these.

It's like a hipster calculator.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-24 13:50:18
May 24 2012 13:38 GMT
#4
On May 24 2012 20:48 JustPassingBy wrote:
This might be a good calculator to actually work with, however for school exercises, I prefer a calculator where you can see what you just calculated (to check for errors). And that is the problem for calculators nowadays, I think. The vast majority are made for children in school, considering that most of the people who could be using one of these in their work, already work on a computer in the first place. :-/

Since the 15c works in RPN mode, you see what you just calculated after each operation. Instead of entering 1 + 1 = you do it this way: 1 Enter 1 + (That is, first the operands, then the operation.)

Lets say you want to computer (2+3)*(4+5). You enter:

2 Enter 3 + 4 Enter 5 + *

No brackets, no operation priorities. It sounds complicated, but one gets used to it quickly. If also saves you keystrokes which makes both computing as well as programming quite efficient. After each operation you see the intermediate result so you can check for errors. You can swap X and Y registers and roll through X, Y, Z and T; the 15c also stores the last X register if you need to "undo" a wrong calculation. When you made a mistake you can instantly redo the operation, this time with the proper value.

I began to use RPN on another HP machine (which had a slightly different implementation) and didn't care about the stack behind it, I just computed some values. It looks strange but actual use is very straightforward.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
Iranon
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States983 Posts
May 24 2012 13:53 GMT
#5
Out of curiosity, what do you actually use a calculator for (presumably at work)? I'm a grad student in math, and I don't see a point to owning a calculator beyond some weird sort of hipster cred, but you say you use it (and have for nearly two decades), so I'm curious what for.

If I need to calculate something simple, my phone has a basic scientific calculator built into it, and it's always in my pocket anyway. If I need to calculate something complicated, I can't imagine a situation where that would come up but I wouldn't be near a computer...
TheToast
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4808 Posts
May 24 2012 13:56 GMT
#6
On May 24 2012 20:48 JustPassingBy wrote:
This might be a good calculator to actually work with, however for school exercises, I prefer a calculator where you can see what you just calculated (to check for errors). And that is the problem for calculators nowadays, I think. The vast majority are made for children in school, considering that most of the people who could be using one of these in their work, already work on a computer in the first place. :-/


Agreed. For the same price you can get a decent graphing calculator that allows you to do so much more than this thing. Check over your work, perform statistical calculation, converting to polar coordinates, even drawing when you get bored in study hall. I guess it's not technically a "pocket" calculator, but then again if size was a concern one could replicate all the function of this thing with a java app on a smart phone (which I'm sure someone has) so...
I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-24 14:19:28
May 24 2012 14:15 GMT
#7
On May 24 2012 22:53 Iranon wrote:
Out of curiosity, what do you actually use a calculator for (presumably at work)? I'm a grad student in math, and I don't see a point to owning a calculator beyond some weird sort of hipster cred, but you say you use it (and have for nearly two decades), so I'm curious what for.

If I need to calculate something simple, my phone has a basic scientific calculator built into it, and it's always in my pocket anyway. If I need to calculate something complicated, I can't imagine a situation where that would come up but I wouldn't be near a computer...

I own this machine for some weeks only. I use pocket calculators more or less frequently since 1995 but never was truly happy. I got happier as I bought an HP-35s in 2009 (which was released in 2007) but that 35s is overloaded with functions and makes too much use of Shift for my taste.

The Windows calculator doesn't work in RPN mode. Even if I only want to see the scaling factor if I use a resolution below my monitor resolution in Xsplit for Video streaming, I want to get to the result fast.

Currently I take the 15c to work and back to home every day. Calculations at work are often simple. I work in the business of testing professionally overclocked hardware. If I want to see how many percent gain I have, I need to divide the new frequency by the default one. When I compare the price of hardware components, I have to include or exclude VAT depending on the source of the price.

At home I sometimes perform more complicated calculations with the use of logarithms, or I need to do a series of operations which I quickly can program a macro for (for example to calculate the monitor panel height using the diagonal and the aspect ratio as input.)
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25977 Posts
May 24 2012 16:09 GMT
#8
On May 24 2012 22:53 Iranon wrote:
Out of curiosity, what do you actually use a calculator for (presumably at work)? I'm a grad student in math, and I don't see a point to owning a calculator beyond some weird sort of hipster cred, but you say you use it (and have for nearly two decades), so I'm curious what for.

If I need to calculate something simple, my phone has a basic scientific calculator built into it, and it's always in my pocket anyway. If I need to calculate something complicated, I can't imagine a situation where that would come up but I wouldn't be near a computer...

I use a calculator at work all the time. It's faster than using my phone and it's more convenient than using the computer.
Moderator
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-24 18:18:30
May 24 2012 18:18 GMT
#9
Does it have a special key that plays a little melody?

+ Show Spoiler +

"See you space cowboy"
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
May 24 2012 19:11 GMT
#10
Maybe I'm having trouble getting the scale of this thing but how exactly is it better than a TI-83 (or 84 or 89 or whatever). Also the single line drives me crazy, I need to see what I put in
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
TheToast
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4808 Posts
May 24 2012 19:39 GMT
#11
^ We don't talk about Texas Instruments calculators here, especially the 83...

O.O
I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-24 22:39:08
May 24 2012 19:46 GMT
#12
On May 24 2012 22:56 TheToast wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2012 20:48 JustPassingBy wrote:
This might be a good calculator to actually work with, however for school exercises, I prefer a calculator where you can see what you just calculated (to check for errors). And that is the problem for calculators nowadays, I think. The vast majority are made for children in school, considering that most of the people who could be using one of these in their work, already work on a computer in the first place. :-/


Agreed. For the same price you can get a decent graphing calculator that allows you to do so much more than this thing. Check over your work, perform statistical calculation, converting to polar coordinates, even drawing when you get bored in study hall. I guess it's not technically a "pocket" calculator, but then again if size was a concern one could replicate all the function of this thing with a java app on a smart phone (which I'm sure someone has) so...

I have a graphing calculator, but don't use it anymore. Too complicated to operate. It has way more statistic functions than the 15c and a multiline display. Once I programmed it to render the mandelbrot set in four colors (as red and blue are avaiable in addition to black and transparent.)

I bought it because I thought "WOW all those features", but later realized that don't need a computer replacement which is too big to fit in my pocket and too laborious to use. I did use the graphing calculator for 1-2 years during study though, but wasn't satisfied with the speed of my calculations.

On May 25 2012 04:11 n.DieJokes wrote:
Maybe I'm having trouble getting the scale of this thing but how exactly is it better than a TI-83 (or 84 or 89 or whatever). Also the single line drives me crazy, I need to see what I put in

The 15c is smaller in size and more efficient to use. The Ti-83 is a small handheld computer. The 15c is a scientific pocket calculator. It is put in a small case with the size of just 5.0" x 3.1".

The Ti-83 offers way more than I need. The 15c also offers more than I need but it doesn't get in my way when I don't need it.

The HP-35s (which I own, too) has two lines. As I bought it, I thought this would be nice. The more I used it, the more I got distracted by seeing two numbers at once.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
Cokefreak
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland8095 Posts
May 24 2012 20:27 GMT
#13
On May 25 2012 04:39 TheToast wrote:
^ We don't talk about Texas Instruments calculators here, especially the 83...

O.O

I was just about to make a TI joke...
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Road to EWC
22:00
Americas Closed Qualifiers
CranKy Ducklings325
EnkiAlexander 105
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 203
Nina 153
CosmosSc2 122
PiLiPiLi 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Aegong 59
NaDa 55
Sharp 7
Icarus 7
Bale 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever190
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 451
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K98
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor157
Other Games
tarik_tv8849
FrodaN8221
summit1g8105
C9.Mang0401
ViBE251
WinterStarcraft242
Mew2King138
Maynarde113
Has31
PPMD24
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1253
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH267
• Hupsaiya 64
• davetesta47
• gosughost_ 16
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki61
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5103
• Shiphtur539
• Stunt357
Upcoming Events
Road to EWC
6h 58m
Road to EWC
13h 58m
BSL Season 20
15h 58m
Sziky vs Razz
Sziky vs StRyKeR
Sziky vs DragOn
Sziky vs Tech
Razz vs StRyKeR
Razz vs DragOn
Razz vs Tech
DragOn vs Tech
Online Event
1d 1h
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Road to EWC
1d 6h
Road to EWC
1d 13h
BSL Season 20
1d 15h
Bonyth vs Doodle
Bonyth vs izu
Bonyth vs MadiNho
Bonyth vs TerrOr
MadiNho vs TerrOr
Doodle vs izu
Doodle vs MadiNho
Doodle vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
5 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-28
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.