I've been playing Diablo 3 basically nonstop since it was released, and now I feel I've got enough of an idea of how it works to finally write a little something about the game.
First, my credentials:
I am a massive Diablo fan who has been playing the games since D1, I actually played D1 online. I played D2 off and on, noobstyle and hardcore for years. All my friends played D2 fanatically as well. I even botted for a while at the end of my D2 career, so I know the game inside and out from every side.
So lets get right into it.
STORY
We'll start off with probably the least important aspect of the game, which is good, because I don't know what the fuck happened to the writing staff at Blizzard over the last few years. Blizz used to do a pretty damn good job with this, go play SCBW, it didnt just seem good because you were 13, it's actually well done. In this department they pulled basically an SC2 on the Diablo franchise. The story is fucking horrible, the dialogue is bizarrely inhuman, and the complexity level is sitting around 3rd grade "epic" fantasy. Basically demons are evil (in a totally boring and unsophisticated "I hate puppies muhahahaha" way", and you have to kill them. There is a twist that nobody cares about because the characters have the depth of a kiddie pool someone left uncovered in the Sahara desert. Its just bad, simplistic, and uncompelling. Fuck the story.
Here's a slightly more important aspect, and its one that Blizzard has really done an excellent job with. If you played D2 you know that basically all you end up doing is very basic kiting and spamming of a single skill 99% of the time, which is certainly not going to work in this game. They really added a ton of different enemies and abilities into the game, which combined with the new skillbar system give the combat MASSIVELY more depth than any of the previous games. In order to be successful you will end up using all six available skills frequently and adapting to your enemies.
SKILLS The skills are very interesting (mostly), and trying out new builds is fun. It does seem there are alot of skills that are just flat out shitty, but I guess thats OK. The utility skills in particular are very useful and cool, and the passive system is done very slickly and will lead to lots of odd builds later on when people figure them out. Here's an issue though, you unlock skills every level, and then later on you will get runes to add or change their effects. The problem is, there is absolutely no advantage to using a skill with no rune, in fact, the runes are a direct upgrade to the damage in nearly all cases. So even though you just unlocked sweet new Firebombs, you really can't use the skill until you get at least a rune for it, as any other skill you got earlier in the game and have a rune for will be automatically better.
ENEMIES/BOSSES Like I said, the combat is just 4000% more entertaining than D2. The bizarre part is when it comes to difficulty. They have added all sorts of modifiers that can be randomly added onto champion level mobs around the map, but once you get into Nightmare mode and further, these frequently combine to form monsters that would tear any Act bosses face off and leave you crying on the floor with a bleeding anus. The bosses all have unique attack patterns that you can learn and all sorts of skills to dodge, but them seem to be well balanced to take a certain measure of skill before going down. These random champion mobs often end up absolutely unstoppable and occasionally forced me to leave and start a new game because I was completely unable to dent their health bar while they jumped all over my face with lazers and super speed and vampirism. This is fucking annoying and pretty shitty game design if you ask me. I'm not bad at games, I'm not going to sit and farm items for 20 hours to be able to kill these occasional uber mobs when I can easily handle every other boss and enemy in the game. Hell, I'm not even sure there IS a gear level sufficient to handle some of the more imbalanced combinations. Enemies with abilities that do basically infinite damage that you are supposed to dodge, while at the same time also immobilizing you, just pray they don't do both at the same time.
MULTIPLAYER This is a wierd one. They have a great friend system that allows you to basically instantly drop into any of your buddies games. But in my experience the game actually becomes significantly harder when playing with more people as enemies get huge buffs to health and damage. The only reason you would really want to party up from a gameplay perspective is because of massive use/abuse of the resurrection system. I die like twice as much in a party, we only keep going because everyone keeps ressing each other. You can watch the dedicated clans playing Inferno and its an absolute orgy of rebirth that would put Jesus himself to shame. Since dying isnt really fun for me, this actually makes me want to play solo, to the extent where I boot my friend out of the game in order to kill hard bosses...which is really not what I want to be doing.
ITEMS
Diablo IS items. This is a category I'm still on the ropes with. On one hand I feel there has been significant simplification of the item system, with basically everyone stacking their primary stat and health, but on the other hand as you progress up the difficulty levels they really start adding more modifiers. I'll refrain from true judgment until I beat Hell etc...but the impression I'm getting is that I feel a lot less that I'm customizing my character, and more like I'm getting "better" shit to make my DPS number increase. The system with every skill based on weapon damage is not very satisfying to me. They claimed they would have lots of systems in place to prevent wizards from running around with the biggest axe they can find, but that's exactly what I have been seeing, and it also negatively impacts the feel of customization and having a unique character. In D2 you felt cool having a character all decked out to have a really specific purpose. You were a badass unlike your buddy Jim, because you had a level 35 Meteor with all your plus skills gear. These specific skill damage boosts seem to be extremely rare in D3, which sucks because instead of having some kind of identity to your hero (#1 HolyBoltadin NA), every Wizard is basically identical to every other Wizard, except one of them is better. Maybe these specific things will appear more later on...but i shouldn't have to wait until 200 hours into the game to make a unique build.
A really strange aspect of the game is the fact that white items are, as far as I can tell, utterly worthless in every possible way. In Diablo 2 you would still pick up and be constantly on the watch for a really good socketed and/or superior white, which could be imbued, or more likely used in high end runewords. A really good white could be worth more than nearly any unique. In D3 there is literally no reason to ever even pick up a white item past the first hour of gameplay. There are no runewords, and you cant use them in crafting or any sort of imbuing, even the best one will only sell for like twenty gold. Why are they even in the game? When you take this into account you realize that the amount of items actually dropping is very low compared to D2.
MENUS AND GUI
Ok, inventory and shit are all fine. Item comparison is very nice, but thats all been standard for years. I have beef with the skill trees.
What the fuck is this.
1. There are THREE nested menus here to navigate: The left and right arrows, THEN you have to click the skill to view its runes, THEN you have to mouse over the runes to see them.
This must be because there is a lot of information to display and not enough space right? WTF NO.
2. Look at how this page is layed out, the fucking enormous retard buttons and 90% empty space. Why? There is absolutely no need. All of the rune information could easily fit on one screen. Why is there no indication of which rune you are using for each skill unless you select that specific skill?
Why are the skills even put in these wierd categories with left and right arrows instead of simple tabs so we can see where they fucking are? How would you like it if your browser looked like this? + Show Spoiler +
You wouldn't like it because its terrible design. They dont even give you the most basic features to make the menu usable. You remember these from your Iphone? + Show Spoiler +
They are there to give you some sort of reference point so you know where the hell you are in the menu. Can we get some of these? The current system is like finding your spot in a book by randomly flipping pages one at a time until you see something you recognize.
Like I said, why are the skills even grouped in these arbitrary categories anyway? This goes into the whole bullshit that is elective mode. They really think players are going to be confused and pick the "wrong" skills...really? How are these categories in any way helpful to the player, they aren't even consistant. Like here's a category called "Decay"
How is this supposed to help me? Am I supposed to see a skill and be like: "Oh, that will be under the Decay header obviously". Fuck no, these skills are completely random in every way. We have a short range AOE poison attack, a long range single target spirit attack, a long range AOE poison attack, and for some random ass reason a defensive utility wall...They arent even internally consistant. What the fuck does Spirit Barrage have to do with decay? Wouldn't Zombie Dogs or Locust Swarm make a hell of a lot more sense? This category is completely worthless. It might as well be called "Lippo Jungies" for all the organization it provides
This skill menu sucks ass, and it pisses me off every time I level up and have to search through it for 10 minutes trying to find what I just unlocked.
CONCLUSION
Ok, despite my flaming about certain aspects, the game is good. The gameplay in itself is massively deeper and more polished than any other similar RPG. The heroes and skills are great and creative. The game is fun, it just has a few very specific issues. The only thing I'm really worried about is the item system...I hope they take it in a more complex and customization direction instead of continuing to "streamline" it. Only time will tell. The challenge level is very high and its refreshing to play a game where you will actually die several times before accomplishing something in single player.
Definitely worth a play, looking forward to PvP, which will probably be very fun.
On May 20 2012 12:30 sob3k wrote: "Uncle Deckard, why am I so fucking boring?"
Another story note: In her cutscenes Leah looks completely artificial and unbelievable, but is unnervingly hot anyway. It's uncomfortable.
Thank god story isn't important to D3, because it has the worst of any video game I've ever played. Every twist is trite and telegraphed and the dialogue made me twist in my seat as if I had a full bladder. What the hell is wrong with these characters, what they are saying makes no fucking sense.
Judging from the impressions from myself and some of my friends, the ones who played d2 were against d3 initially but started to enjoy the game more throughout our playthrough. My more casual friends on the other hand absolutely love the game because it's easier to judge when gear improves your stats and being able to quickly change abilities for certain fights.
Also having a D3 lan with a massive projector to watch GSL and proleague makes it even better!
The dialogue is definitely subpar and my least favorite part of the game. Im enjoying the overall gameplay aside from that.
i'm absolutely loving D3 but i completely agree about the skill UI, if you don't want to use elective mode for some reason then it's serviceable, but with that option turned on it's a mess
the blizzard explanation for white items being useless is that they basically only drop to give that feeling of "loot explosion" when you kill stuff.
i will say though that your nostalgia is probably blinding you to blizzard's storywriting shortcomings in the past, they've never been especially good at it. but most game developers aren't, so i don't really hold it against them
Odd that you insulted the story. It's like way better and way more immersive than any of the other Diablo games by far. But yea, killing shit is what it's all about, so the story's basically pointless anyway. I like the story. It's cheesy and totally ridiculous and fun. The evil horadrim guy is like the hammiest thing ever. He's SO good.
...hmm, well I wonder what the monsters on Hell will be like then, if you're having that much trouble on Nightmare. I dunno, you might be able to do something to actually mitigate that rather than just rerolling.
I have no idea what you're talking about with white items. White items are worthless in Diablo II past the first hour of gameplay. Even in Diablo I they got thrown away quick. Nothing changed there. I don't really understand why they add in 'superior' and 'masterwork' and stuff when they're all worthless anyway. Shrug.
So it sounds like you're a big fan of the skill menu! :D
Only just now got into Nightmare mode today with my buddy (due to finals this past week and next week) but I'm absolutely loving it so far. I also find it odd that you insult the story, as I absolutely loved all the things that you insulted
As someone who has never played any other Diablo games nor any other similar form of RPGs other than KotOR I think that Diablo 3 is an horrible game. I'm totally clueless as to why there was so much hype around it and why my friends forced me to buy this shit. I feel like I paid a full game price for what feels like a cheap 20$ Xbox Live Arcade type of game.
Cutscenes, although graphically stunning, are a bit underwhelming as far as content goes. But it's still fine... I dunno, maybe it's the voice actors but there's something about them that's just.. not right.
As for gameplay, the game rocks, it's A LOT of fun, and just being on nightmare I can't fathom how incredibly hard this game must be on hardcore. People are already saying the game is impossible to beat on softcore infermo (Despite killing diablo, they skipped the monster packs straight to the bosses, which because of the repeated mechanics can be killed with enough time)
The fun comes from the difficulty, which will provide endless challenge
On May 20 2012 14:38 Bigpet wrote: Can anyone tell me with a straight face that the game feels like it was in development for almost 4 years after this:
That's pretty much the boring character I play. Barbarian: melee, can't tank as well as other units, isn't as strong as other units, and yet is still called the barbarian.
And for the record, they show a rechargeable mana orb on the barbarian in that video... I wish I had that. What I have right now is bullshit.
On May 20 2012 14:38 Bigpet wrote: Can anyone tell me with a straight face that the game feels like it was in development for almost 4 years after this:
That's pretty much the boring character I play. Barbarian: melee, can't tank as well as other units, isn't as strong as other units, and yet is still called the barbarian.
And for the record, they show a rechargeable mana orb on the barbarian in that video... I wish I had that. What I have right now is bullshit.
I don't know. The unique secondary resources (mana, arcane power, discipline/hate, focus and rage) are there to differentiate the classes and provide a unique play experience for all classes and I think it's a very nice mechanic. As a berserker you are supposed to get into the heat of battle and fight yourself into a frenzy. I especially like the passive that increases your damage with a full rage-meter.
I can't believe people actually think the story is any good, it's godamn awful. The dialogue too, blows, and the voice acting is only mostly passable.
I basically agree with everything the OP pointed out; I'm enjoying the game a lot thus far because Diablo is all about slaughtering monsters with extreme prejudice and that is entertaining and well done. I just have to look away and close my ears whenever anyone speaks.
On May 20 2012 12:30 sob3k wrote: "Uncle Deckard, why am I so fucking boring?"
Another story note: In her cutscenes Leah looks completely artificial and unbelievable, but is unnervingly hot anyway. It's uncomfortable.
Thank god story isn't important to D3, because it has the worst of any video game I've ever played. Every twist is trite and telegraphed and the dialogue made me twist in my seat as if I had a full bladder. What the hell is wrong with these characters, what they are saying makes no fucking sense.
agree lol, ppl hyped this game wayy too much. It's so boring with 10k clicks every rounds, yawning to know that in Normal mode, monster most likely can't kill them, some class like more could just tank forever with the right control. The story is boring and predictable as hell, totally disappointed.
Feels like the story is made for kids. Everything gets thrown in your face and there are zero twists or surprises that you couldnt see coming a million miles away. Only good part about the story is Tyreal. I really like how a fallen angel literally falls from the sky.
I think the gameplay is fantastic. Its REALLY fun to kill -and destroy everything pretty much, however I think, past normal, the game gets too hard. Especially in coop mode. Most of the attributes for champion packs and uniques are really nasty and if you run into the wrong packs you dont stand a chance. Its actually impossible to kill a nasty pack without dying and thats bad design imo. I feel like some of the attributes should be toned down and the frozen attribute should simply get removed. It fits in WoW but not in Diablo and its insta-death for HC chars. You can make the game hard without it being impossible and Blizzard needs to look into that. Going hardcore in D3 is 10 times harder than hardcore in D2 Classic and that says a lot.
However I think the bosses are scaled really well up to act 3 NM where I am currently at with my barb. Tried Belial with 2 sorcs and we barely killed him on our first try with the sorcs dying a lot and me resurrecting them. Also killed the first boss in act 3 but he was harder and it took us 3 tries to kill him. The poison dmg he does is maybe slightly over the top but its a fun fight on nm none the less.
About items I really disslike that items without your primary stat is pretty much useless no matter how awesome the other stats are. Also I am level 45 and havnt found a single unique (legendary) yet. All bosses in nm dropped only blue items so far and I dont like that.
This game was incredibly over hyped. The game is simply a clickfest, the storywriter was probably one who wrote all of Michael Bay's films, and the GUI, as you perfectly described it, is utterly ridiculous. To be honest, I find playing around in the auction more fun than the game itself, selling and buying things. Tip: Just buy all your items from the auction... Trying to use the smithy is a waste of time and money.
On May 20 2012 16:58 EienShinwa wrote: This game was incredibly over hyped. The game is simply a clickfest, the storywriter was probably one who wrote all of Michael Bay's films, and the GUI, as you perfectly described it, is utterly ridiculous. To be honest, I find playing around in the auction more fun than the game itself, selling and buying things. Tip: Just buy all your items from the auction... Trying to use the smithy is a waste of time and money.
This thread is pretty funny. 'Barbarian is boring' - Change your class. 'Coop too hard' - Somehow they have to make this game challenging, I have no problem with trying out various stuff. I don't think the story is THAT bad, what they are doing with HotS is gonna be bad. Yeah, the UI is noobfriendly, but what the hell did you expect from a game that's made for 16 year olds?
On May 20 2012 20:02 Recognizable wrote: The game is fun. But way too easy. Halfway through nightmare and I have (normal included) died a total of 15 times?
That would be 15 restarts for me, it isnt TOO easy. But normal monsters are way too easy compared to some of the Elite and Champions packs. Agree with the OP on the fact that some combinations can be impossible even in softcore. For example Shielding Illusionist Jailer Freezing Mortar Wallin any combination of those 4 in Inferno softcore is basically unbeatable.
On May 20 2012 14:38 Bigpet wrote: Can anyone tell me with a straight face that the game feels like it was in development for almost 4 years after this:
That's pretty much the boring character I play. Barbarian: melee, can't tank as well as other units, isn't as strong as other units, and yet is still called the barbarian.
And for the record, they show a rechargeable mana orb on the barbarian in that video... I wish I had that. What I have right now is bullshit.
Maybe you just suck at barbarian and chose to build him in an un-fun way?
Also, almost everything you see in the video has been changed. From the UI, font, skill system to the animations stuff is quite different now. If blizzard was a generic EA developer, they probably would have released the game like that (only adding the additional content), but since they are blizzard, they finetuned it and it is way better now than it seems in the video.
The Game is good, maybe not the best one ever made, but certainly better than 99% of games that get released these days. I'm also looking forward to PvP, it seems that it will be a lot like bloodline champions
On May 20 2012 14:38 Bigpet wrote: Can anyone tell me with a straight face that the game feels like it was in development for almost 4 years after this:
That's pretty much the boring character I play. Barbarian: melee, can't tank as well as other units, isn't as strong as other units, and yet is still called the barbarian.
And for the record, they show a rechargeable mana orb on the barbarian in that video... I wish I had that. What I have right now is bullshit.
Maybe you just suck at barbarian and chose to build him in an un-fun way?
You realize that everyone gets the same skills automatically unlocked right -______- It's not like D2.
And actually, a lot of people are complaining that barbarian is extremely weak compared to the other races, both at the lower levels and at the higher ones.
It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
On May 20 2012 20:02 Recognizable wrote: The game is fun. But way too easy. Halfway through nightmare and I have (normal included) died a total of 15 times?
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Agreed. It's really just "combinations" at any given time, like you pointed out. The traditional builds of an RPG seem to be something you build your character up to (like in D2, where you invest in a particular skill set and work on it and make it stronger over time). D3 doesn't have this, so I guess they're using "build" when they really mean "combination". It's the best comparison/ analogy they have for something they're familiar with from previous games.
But to call it a "build" is really giving it more credit than it deserves. You just randomly unlock stuff every level (most of it useless to your combination) and then just keep playing, rather than apply each new level's skill points or abilities to your build every step of the way. You don't build your character in the traditional sense. Of course, you can still upgrade with new gear, but that only complements your chosen combination.
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Agreed. It's really just "combinations" at any given time, like you pointed out. The traditional builds of an RPG seem to be something you build your character up to (like in D2, where you invest in a particular skill set and work on it and make it stronger over time). D3 doesn't have this, so I guess they're using "build" when they really mean "combination". It's the best comparison/ analogy they have for something they're familiar with from previous games.
But to call it a "build" is really giving it more credit than it deserves. You just randomly unlock stuff every level (most of it useless to your combination) and then just keep playing, rather than apply each new level's skill points or abilities to your build every step of the way. You don't build your character in the traditional sense. Of course, you can still upgrade with new gear, but that only complements your chosen combination.
So free respecs means that they are no longer builds? World of warcraft have almost free respecs, people still see those as builds. If they tacked on a 100 gold fee in diablo for respeccing would they be builds then?
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
On May 20 2012 20:02 Recognizable wrote: The game is fun. But way too easy. Halfway through nightmare and I have (normal included) died a total of 15 times?
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
What bugs me about the skill system is that there really arent many viable options if you play hc. Sure, if you can die infinite times you can play around with all kinds of flashy skills, but ultimately there will only be like 5 viable skills to chose from per class when it comes to maximum efficiency.
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
Just because it is easy to rebuild your character doesn't mean that it isn't a build.
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
What bugs me about the skill system is that there really arent many viable options if you play hc. Sure, if you can die infinite times you can play around with all kinds of flashy skills, but ultimately there will only be like 5 viable skills to chose from per class when it comes to maximum efficiency.
No, it depends on what you mean when you say "maximum efficiency". Also it depends a lot on which kind of player you are. Maximum efficiency could mean that you never die but you kill mobs slowlsy or that you kill mobs faster but there is a 50% chance that you will die before you hit 60.
Edit: Also I am sure that there are no consensus about what build gives "maximum efficiency" currently.
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
What bugs me about the skill system is that there really arent many viable options if you play hc. Sure, if you can die infinite times you can play around with all kinds of flashy skills, but ultimately there will only be like 5 viable skills to chose from per class when it comes to maximum efficiency.
I'm glad people already have explored the absurd amount of skill combinations in less than week that the game is released.
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
What bugs me about the skill system is that there really arent many viable options if you play hc. Sure, if you can die infinite times you can play around with all kinds of flashy skills, but ultimately there will only be like 5 viable skills to chose from per class when it comes to maximum efficiency.
To be fair, hardcore is supposed to be insanely difficult to complete, and so most of the "just for fun" builds are supposed to remain in softcore mode. Only the smartest players and strongest characters should be able to beat HC mode, and so while there may be many viable builds in SC mode, players may need to come up with (and solely use) optimal builds to beat HC mode.
That's my take on it, anyway. Just for fun = softcore And I'm pretty much fine with that idea.
Oh god, the elective mode. So much fucking rage. Whenever you're watching a stream there's always like ten people that are like "DAFUQ? THIS BARB HAS 3 DEFENSIVE SKILLS. CALL THE PRESS MOTHERFUCKERS, WE GOT A HACKER ON THE LOOSE." and it's not even their fault really, because when you shove such an important option in the corner of a random options page in the pause menu, only a small amount of people are gonna find it.
Also, whats with having the unadvanced tooltips off by default? I guess this is more passable, but when I read a skill, I wanna know what the fuck it ACTUALLY does. I don't want some random description, I wanna know how much damage it does so I can decide whether I give a shit about the ability or not.
So you have predetermined skills and stock items? The whole point of games like this is planning and building your character and going for amazing drops. Its not like clickfest games are so ingaging that you would play through it over and over just for the fun of defeating countless mobs that charge at you.
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
Just because it is easy to rebuild your character doesn't mean that it isn't a build.
I just think it's a misnomer to call everyone's combination of six skills a "build" (although, quite frankly, it's a word that everyone can relate to from previous games and almost get the same idea across, so I'm not exactly going to run a petition against using the word).
Everyone's "build" is going to be the same at the end of the day: At your current level, reflect on all your skills and see which combination works best. If you're level 60, you have every skill, and you didn't need to build your character any differently than anyone else (actually, you couldn't). Your build will be the same as everyone else's (i.e. unlocking everything) but your final combination of skills may be different.
Now that being said, I think it'd be interesting if people started working with the fact that they were stuck with auto-unlocks (which will come in time) and actually proposing their own combination changes every step of the way (e.g. at level 24 I use this combination, at level 32 I'm going to use this combination, and at level 40 I'm going to use this combination, etc.). That's pretty much the best outline a "build" can become in the D3 world, based on the fact that you can't actually diverge from other people in unlocking skill paths, in my opinion.
On May 20 2012 16:58 EienShinwa wrote: This game was incredibly over hyped. The game is simply a clickfest, the storywriter was probably one who wrote all of Michael Bay's films, and the GUI, as you perfectly described it, is utterly ridiculous. To be honest, I find playing around in the auction more fun than the game itself, selling and buying things. Tip: Just buy all your items from the auction... Trying to use the smithy is a waste of time and money.
This mean speaks the truth!! Never trust the blacksmith. Though i'd create some leggings for me lvl43 barb yesterday, so prefer something with strenght on (because i had like lvl20 legs still). 19 leggings crafted (2k gold each, and a ton of mats).......... still no strength legs!!! Also a lot of time you'll get the stat you want, but like 10strength and 50intellect... I DONT WANT THAT!!!.
ps. diablo is an amazing game, i enjoyed it a lot so far UI is terrible though, story bit linear and stuff, but enjoye dit nontheless.
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
Just because it is easy to rebuild your character doesn't mean that it isn't a build.
I just think it's a misnomer to call everyone's combination of six skills a "build" (although, quite frankly, it's a word that everyone can relate to from previous games and almost get the same idea across, so I'm not exactly going to run a petition against using the word).
Everyone's "build" is going to be the same at the end of the day: At your current level, reflect on all your skills and see which combination works best. If you're level 60, you have every skill, and you didn't need to build your character any differently than anyone else (actually, you couldn't). Your build will be the same as everyone else's (i.e. unlocking everything) but your final combination of skills may be different.
Now that being said, I think it'd be interesting if people started working with the fact that they were stuck with auto-unlocks (which will come in time) and actually proposing their own combination changes every step of the way (e.g. at level 24 I use this combination, at level 32 I'm going to use this combination, and at level 40 I'm going to use this combination, etc.). That's pretty much the best outline a "build" can become in the D3 world, based on the fact that you can't actually diverge from other people in unlocking skill paths, in my opinion.
It seems to me to be the same thing as 'hotkey'. When a technical word gets popular in gaming, it gets attached to more and more loosely related things.
Hotkeys originally were when you did control+1, control+2, etc, to assign certain units or a building to a number (hence 'hot'). Shortcut keys were things like m for building a marine or k to upgrade high templar energy (or whatever it was). By SC2, shortcut keys and hotkeys were both being referred to as hotkeys... by users AND by blizzard.
The word 'build' originally had to do with (you guessed it) 'building' something. Now, a build is anything that is vaguely similar to what a build used to be (in this case choosing which abilities you want to use at a given time).
Legendary/Set items are awful compared to random blues/yellows. There's no point in farming the cool stuff if your blue drop has double the stats. The stats themselves have been simplified so much that items will never be cool. Every upgrade is either more health or more damage. They got rid of all the cool modifiers that made D2 uniques, unique.
This link was not working 100% for me but it does a much more in-depth explanation of why nobody will care enough about items to actually farm and/or buy items for more than a few cents.
edit: The rest of the game is great, I think they did a great job with the gameplay (monks not included) but it just won't last.
People who don't understand "builds" need to either get farther in the game, or play a different class. There's a ridiculous amount of flexibility with the wizard for example, and which of the tons of skills/runes you choose to run (and what gear you have to complement it) completely changes how you play. It's not about maximum efficiency, but more how you want to play and what works in a given situation.
Thanks for the write-up OP! I've made up my mind about Diablo III a long time ago (and watching some of the streams, I made the right choice) but it's still nice to read some properly written criticism and impressions of the game.
On May 20 2012 16:58 EienShinwa wrote: This game was incredibly over hyped. The game is simply a clickfest, the storywriter was probably one who wrote all of Michael Bay's films, and the GUI, as you perfectly described it, is utterly ridiculous. To be honest, I find playing around in the auction more fun than the game itself, selling and buying things. Tip: Just buy all your items from the auction... Trying to use the smithy is a waste of time and money.
This mean speaks the truth!! Never trust the blacksmith. Though i'd create some leggings for me lvl43 barb yesterday, so prefer something with strenght on (because i had like lvl20 legs still). 19 leggings crafted (2k gold each, and a ton of mats).......... still no strength legs!!! Also a lot of time you'll get the stat you want, but like 10strength and 50intellect... I DONT WANT THAT!!!.
ps. diablo is an amazing game, i enjoyed it a lot so far UI is terrible though, story bit linear and stuff, but enjoye dit nontheless.
Something that also blows my mind is when demon hunter items like crossbows drop with a huge amount of intelligence on them.... :S?
On May 20 2012 16:58 EienShinwa wrote: This game was incredibly over hyped. The game is simply a clickfest, the storywriter was probably one who wrote all of Michael Bay's films, and the GUI, as you perfectly described it, is utterly ridiculous. To be honest, I find playing around in the auction more fun than the game itself, selling and buying things. Tip: Just buy all your items from the auction... Trying to use the smithy is a waste of time and money.
This mean speaks the truth!! Never trust the blacksmith. Though i'd create some leggings for me lvl43 barb yesterday, so prefer something with strenght on (because i had like lvl20 legs still). 19 leggings crafted (2k gold each, and a ton of mats).......... still no strength legs!!! Also a lot of time you'll get the stat you want, but like 10strength and 50intellect... I DONT WANT THAT!!!.
ps. diablo is an amazing game, i enjoyed it a lot so far UI is terrible though, story bit linear and stuff, but enjoye dit nontheless.
Something that also blows my mind is when demon hunter items like crossbows drop with a huge amount of intelligence on them.... :S?
On May 20 2012 16:58 EienShinwa wrote: This game was incredibly over hyped. The game is simply a clickfest, the storywriter was probably one who wrote all of Michael Bay's films, and the GUI, as you perfectly described it, is utterly ridiculous. To be honest, I find playing around in the auction more fun than the game itself, selling and buying things. Tip: Just buy all your items from the auction... Trying to use the smithy is a waste of time and money.
This mean speaks the truth!! Never trust the blacksmith. Though i'd create some leggings for me lvl43 barb yesterday, so prefer something with strenght on (because i had like lvl20 legs still). 19 leggings crafted (2k gold each, and a ton of mats).......... still no strength legs!!! Also a lot of time you'll get the stat you want, but like 10strength and 50intellect... I DONT WANT THAT!!!.
ps. diablo is an amazing game, i enjoyed it a lot so far UI is terrible though, story bit linear and stuff, but enjoye dit nontheless.
Something that also blows my mind is when demon hunter items like crossbows drop with a huge amount of intelligence on them.... :S?
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
Just because it is easy to rebuild your character doesn't mean that it isn't a build.
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
What bugs me about the skill system is that there really arent many viable options if you play hc. Sure, if you can die infinite times you can play around with all kinds of flashy skills, but ultimately there will only be like 5 viable skills to chose from per class when it comes to maximum efficiency.
No, it depends on what you mean when you say "maximum efficiency". Also it depends a lot on which kind of player you are. Maximum efficiency could mean that you never die but you kill mobs slowlsy or that you kill mobs faster but there is a 50% chance that you will die before you hit 60.
Edit: Also I am sure that there are no consensus about what build gives "maximum efficiency" currently.
Well in hardcore the maximum efficiency is obviously the build where you never die. And im talking about lvl 60 builds only obv. And im fairly certain there will not be many builds being viable for 60 hc (aka having a shot at not dieing on inferno, ever).
On May 20 2012 16:58 EienShinwa wrote: This game was incredibly over hyped. The game is simply a clickfest, the storywriter was probably one who wrote all of Michael Bay's films, and the GUI, as you perfectly described it, is utterly ridiculous. To be honest, I find playing around in the auction more fun than the game itself, selling and buying things. Tip: Just buy all your items from the auction... Trying to use the smithy is a waste of time and money.
Haha yes. And salvaging items is a waste of gold too, you should just sell your items to a vendor and buy the mats on AH. The npc/AH prices don't make sense at all. Atm all the npcs are a lot more expensive :D (but mb the eco will balance in time).
As for the OP, I thought this was another baseless rant, but you gave pretty good arguments (at least for the skill UI and items). I agree with that.
The story wasn't that bad imo, I liked talking to all the characters and side stories they introduced. Although some things of the story went to quickly/didn't make sense entirely.
I agree still worth the play and really fun. It has been a little more mindless fun than I thought it was going to be; however, it is still addictive as hell and so satisfying!
The biggest "WTF" i have with the game is that everyone gets ALL skills, you dont have to choose which skills you are going to have, which makes every character of the same class pretty much exactly the same and that is a bit boring.
Yes you have to choose which skills to use but you can still use the same skills as any other wizard/barbarian/witch doctor etc
Im mostly dissappointed about the story and some of the design features. The bestiary looks great but bosses like belial and diablo are just fucking ugly. I just think that all the extra mouths eyes and weird horn appandages dont make the bosses look badass, just fucking weird.
I also agree with some of the complaints that the bad guys constantly updating you on what they are doing is fucking stupid. The lamest of all was some letter you can find in act 3 where Azmodan sends a fucking letter to one of his minions to give her orders. Seriously, his ugly face appears all over the goddamn place but he communicates with her through fucking mail? Facepalm.
I think a really nice feature for D3 would be to have some sort of challenge mode, where you face the all star bosses in a row with increasing difficulty (that possibly could be virually endless increase) so you can have some sort of specific team challenge or something. It also would be nice to see the good ol' guys in D3 graphics.
Diablo boss was such a big let down to me. Not even how he looked, just the whole bossfight itself. There should've been minions spawning everywhere and fire and I don't know blizzard is good at that stuff. In the end it's just a blank plateau on which you fight, and his attacks are kind lame. Yeah there's the whole other world where you fight yourself and dark diablo but meh, just really meh.
I haven't played deeply with the other classes, but the Barb is a shadow of itself. Barb is known for being an aggressive, life-leeching char. How can I do that with leech rings that add +30 hp/hit? Now all I do is put a few hits on champ minions and kite away, running with my tail between my legs waiting for the health potion CD to finish. What. A. Joke.
On May 21 2012 01:44 matiK23 wrote: I haven't played deeply with the other classes, but the Barb is a shadow of itself. Barb is known for being an aggressive, life-leeching char. How can I do that with leech rings that add +30 hp/hit? Now all I do is put a few hits on champ minions and kite away, running with my tail between my legs waiting for the health potion CD to finish. What. A. Joke.
On May 20 2012 23:07 Tobberoth wrote: People who don't understand "builds" need to either get farther in the game, or play a different class. There's a ridiculous amount of flexibility with the wizard for example, and which of the tons of skills/runes you choose to run (and what gear you have to complement it) completely changes how you play. It's not about maximum efficiency, but more how you want to play and what works in a given situation.
you dont build-up your character. you are given skills and stats. whatever skill you choose to use if upto you yes, but you had zero input on getting there aside from ... getting experience points.
While I admit the game has it's flaws, it's still hard to argue it's a better release than most games currently being put out. I do have to say, ABSOLUTELY a set of skills is a build. Perhaps the nay-sayers are looking at it on a very shallow level. It's not just the spells you are using, but how you use gear to compliment, in parallel with your passives.
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
You have to be joking me. I most certainly do set out with an outcome in mind. My current build is slightly unique compared to what I have seen most wizards run. I am a melee wizard that stacks crit chance and life, I then base my character around critting to heal. It works great, I'm level 59 almost finished with hell. Perhaps you are letting your negative bias of the game impact the way you play. I'd suggest trying to objectively look at the release.
On May 21 2012 04:02 xLethargicax wrote: While I admit the game has it's flaws, it's still hard to argue it's a better release than most games currently being put out. I do have to say, ABSOLUTELY a set of skills is a build. Perhaps the nay-sayers are looking at it on a very shallow level. It's not just the spells you are using, but how you use gear to compliment, in parallel with your passives.
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
You have to be joking me. I most certainly do set out with an outcome in mind. My current build is slightly unique compared to what I have seen most wizards run. I am a melee wizard that stacks crit chance and life, I then base my character around critting to heal. It works great, I'm level 59 almost finished with hell. Perhaps you are letting your negative bias of the game impact the way you play. I'd suggest trying to objectively look at the release.
This is how I want to play my wizard too! I guess I just want to play melee wizard, but since you've found a way to make it work, I'm definitely trying that.
The only thing that makes it even close to a 'build' in the traditional sense is that you can tailor your equipment towards the abilities you want to use. I don't agree that 'ABSOLUTELY a set of skills is a build' unless you take build to mean 'a set of skills' which is what most people seem to do, but not what it used to mean.
On May 20 2012 23:00 Backpack wrote: The new item system will be the downfall of D3.
Legendary/Set items are awful compared to random blues/yellows. There's no point in farming the cool stuff if your blue drop has double the stats. The stats themselves have been simplified so much that items will never be cool. Every upgrade is either more health or more damage. They got rid of all the cool modifiers that made D2 uniques, unique.
This link was not working 100% for me but it does a much more in-depth explanation of why nobody will care enough about items to actually farm and/or buy items for more than a few cents.
edit: The rest of the game is great, I think they did a great job with the gameplay (monks not included) but it just won't last.
Umm this is a good thing.. If unique/epic items are the best, everyone will end up with the same cookie cutter setups like in LoD. Its boring, bland and predictable. This is why Classic D2 and D1 are so good - everyone has different items, and with the various affix sets you have all the fun of combinatorics that premade uniques tend to eliminate. There is also the player created "lore" of especially rare items which have retardedly good affix or item color cominations, run for ridiculous prices on the market and whose owners are admired and hated. if you look at D2 classic trading forums youll see this grassroots content creation dynamic. unique items destroy all this.
On May 20 2012 23:00 Backpack wrote: The new item system will be the downfall of D3.
Legendary/Set items are awful compared to random blues/yellows. There's no point in farming the cool stuff if your blue drop has double the stats. The stats themselves have been simplified so much that items will never be cool. Every upgrade is either more health or more damage. They got rid of all the cool modifiers that made D2 uniques, unique.
This link was not working 100% for me but it does a much more in-depth explanation of why nobody will care enough about items to actually farm and/or buy items for more than a few cents.
edit: The rest of the game is great, I think they did a great job with the gameplay (monks not included) but it just won't last.
Umm this is a good thing.. If unique/epic items are the best, everyone will end up with the same cookie cutter setups like in LoD. Its boring, bland and predictable. This is why Classic D2 and D1 are so good - everyone has different items, and with the various affix sets you have all the fun of combinatorics that premade uniques tend to eliminate. There is also the player created "lore" of especially rare items which have retardedly good affix or item color cominations, run for ridiculous prices on the market and whose owners are admired and hated. if you look at D2 classic trading forums youll see this grassroots content creation dynamic. unique items destroy all this.
You are the 1%. This I am 100% sure of.
Uniques should not be insanely powerfull but they should at least stand out, serve a purpose. Thats what makes them unique. Right now the uniques in D3 dont really do that.
There's two big things that really stand out for me. Three. Let's go with three.
1. The story is awful. Personally I think the story and writing is one of the most important things in a game that's supposed to have a story to begin with. I feel the same way I felt when I used to play warcraft and I heard about Cataclysm: "O good, instead of building off of lore you had...you went for "SUDDENLY A DRAGON WILL APPEAR!!!!" (that doesn't mean that Deathwing wasn't part of the lore WoW-people, just that there was a lot of other shit that could have been built off of first, and he could have been introduced without "hey look at our new stuff guys") When I think about this game, aside from the fact that the story itself is shit, I have the same feeling of..."okay, I am attempting, really hard here, and it's not working". And i get the feeling that it was made to need some sort of shitty follow-up to really follow through. To sum that up, the story is bad, and it doesn't even feel like it stands alone as a working piece.
2. When I played D2 at ANY and EVERY level I could feel a difference between playing a poisonmancer and a bonemancer and a skeleton master. Playing a Frenzy barb or a WW barb weren't the same experience, even though for the large part they actually were. The felt different. They looked different. And again, at every level they felt different. You didn't have to get to hell to find that out. You didn't have to get to hell to visually feel different either. While D3 gives you different visuals, generally it feels like your play variance is more "Do I want to kite?" "Do I want to hit shit in the face?" and not much further than that. Or rather, a scale of "How much various CC do I want to use?" Beyond that a lot of "options" feel a lot less like options and a lot more like "do I want to use something inferior or something better?" Poisonmancers might look a little off, and even play a little scary in a few parts, but there's not much debate that they were actually pretty badass for a while; similar to a throwing barbarian. Even if it sounded sub-par, a lot of things were just amazing, and again, different from eachother. I don't get that feeling from D3.
3. I will forwarn this by saying it might be my disappointment with the game. It might be nostalgia. It might be that I just don't enjoy grinding or too much scripted stuff. I feel that the replay value of the game is non-existent. I got to a point where it was MF Baal/xx or stop playing and it was stop playing because effectively you're mashing keys; you aren't playing anymore. But I'm already there with D3 and I just started. Hopefully I can refund.
On May 20 2012 23:00 Backpack wrote: The new item system will be the downfall of D3.
Legendary/Set items are awful compared to random blues/yellows. There's no point in farming the cool stuff if your blue drop has double the stats. The stats themselves have been simplified so much that items will never be cool. Every upgrade is either more health or more damage. They got rid of all the cool modifiers that made D2 uniques, unique.
This link was not working 100% for me but it does a much more in-depth explanation of why nobody will care enough about items to actually farm and/or buy items for more than a few cents.
edit: The rest of the game is great, I think they did a great job with the gameplay (monks not included) but it just won't last.
D2 was kinda like that as well, aside from like a dozen uniques (Dracul's Grasp, SoJ, BK, Shako, Vipermagi, HoZ, Mara's, Homunculus, sorc orbs, Arachnid Mesh, War Travs), a few of sets (Death's Disguise, Orphan's Call, Cow King's, Trangs), and several runewords (Enigma, CtA, HotO, Spirit, the ladder-only aura runewords) out of all the ones they had, the best gear is still magics and rares. And actually, you'd settle for a few of those uniques because you couldn't get the better magics or rares. But anyway, the good "legendary" stuff is not so abundant.
I just read the article, and it seems like it's complaining that there aren't enough useless mods available for items. I'm not sure what the carrot-on-a-stick analogy was supposed to be about, but it'd certainly apply if D3 was like D2 where you farmed endlessly and 90% of the stuff you ended up with was vendor trash, because of the massive amounts of useless mods you can roll on items. Is this guy saying that he wants to spend more time farming for good items? 'Cause what ended up happening on D2 is that there are more bots than people actually playing, since farming is the most mindnumbingly boring and skilless thing you can do in a game.
I dunno, "replay value", I guess. If you didn't have to spend endless hours farming decent gear for pvp, what else would you be playing for when you've beaten every difficulty?
On May 21 2012 04:07 micronesia wrote: The only thing that makes it even close to a 'build' in the traditional sense is that you can tailor your equipment towards the abilities you want to use. I don't agree that 'ABSOLUTELY a set of skills is a build' unless you take build to mean 'a set of skills' which is what most people seem to do, but not what it used to mean.
haha, such nonsensical abuse of semantics.
It's exactly the same thing as having infinite respecs.
On May 21 2012 04:07 micronesia wrote: The only thing that makes it even close to a 'build' in the traditional sense is that you can tailor your equipment towards the abilities you want to use. I don't agree that 'ABSOLUTELY a set of skills is a build' unless you take build to mean 'a set of skills' which is what most people seem to do, but not what it used to mean.
haha, such nonsensical abuse of semantics.
It's exactly the same thing as having infinite respecs.
I feel like my 'hotkey' example was lost on you (or you just didn't read it).
On May 21 2012 04:07 micronesia wrote: The only thing that makes it even close to a 'build' in the traditional sense is that you can tailor your equipment towards the abilities you want to use. I don't agree that 'ABSOLUTELY a set of skills is a build' unless you take build to mean 'a set of skills' which is what most people seem to do, but not what it used to mean.
haha, such nonsensical abuse of semantics.
It's exactly the same thing as having infinite respecs.
I feel like my 'hotkey' example was lost on you (or you just didn't read it).
I didn't read, but it doesn't really change anything. There really is no difference between introducing the ability to redivide your points as you wish into d2 and what we have now.
I am also hearing a lot of complaining about how "useless" some of the skills/runes are. Are you kidding me? Look at Diablo 2, half of the spells on that game were completely useless and were never utilized in PvP or PvM. I'm also hearing a lot of people say there are a limited number of efficient builds on D3. The exact same thing was true, if not even moreso, on D2. Everybody played the same builds and there was hardly even any differences between peoples items. Everybody had the same charms, runewords, and uniques.
How are so many of you jumping to judge this game when it has been out for four days?! Talking about limitations of builds, how bad the loot system is, how ruined the game is. Diablo 2 was out for 12 years and had numerous patches. You have to wait for a community to build around a game and define how to game functions. I bet most people in this thread whining about the item system on D3 haven't even had a set item yet.
On May 21 2012 08:59 xLethargicax wrote: I am also hearing a lot of complaining about how "useless" some of the skills/runes are. Are you kidding me? Look at Diablo 2, half of the spells on that game were completely useless and were never utilized in PvP or PvM. I'm also hearing a lot of people say there are a limited number of efficient builds on D3. The exact same thing was true, if not even moreso, on D2. Everybody played the same builds and there was hardly even any differences between peoples items. Everybody had the same charms, runewords, and uniques.
How are so many of you jumping to judge this game when it has been out for four days?! Talking about limitations of builds, how bad the loot system is, how ruined the game is. Diablo 2 was out for 12 years and had numerous patches. You have to wait for a community to build around a game and define how to game functions. I bet most people in this thread whining about the item system on D3 haven't even had a set item yet.
mind-boggling.
yeah the blizzard version. but the bar has been raised since then. third party mods like Median XL and Hell Unleashed have achieved immaculate balance where nearly every skill of every class is end-game viable. and im sorry but blizzards work here isnt good enough. it just doesnt cut it. their quality standard isnt what the amateurs have set already.
On May 20 2012 23:00 Backpack wrote: The new item system will be the downfall of D3.
Legendary/Set items are awful compared to random blues/yellows. There's no point in farming the cool stuff if your blue drop has double the stats. The stats themselves have been simplified so much that items will never be cool. Every upgrade is either more health or more damage. They got rid of all the cool modifiers that made D2 uniques, unique.
This link was not working 100% for me but it does a much more in-depth explanation of why nobody will care enough about items to actually farm and/or buy items for more than a few cents.
edit: The rest of the game is great, I think they did a great job with the gameplay (monks not included) but it just won't last.
Umm this is a good thing.. If unique/epic items are the best, everyone will end up with the same cookie cutter setups like in LoD. Its boring, bland and predictable. This is why Classic D2 and D1 are so good - everyone has different items, and with the various affix sets you have all the fun of combinatorics that premade uniques tend to eliminate. There is also the player created "lore" of especially rare items which have retardedly good affix or item color cominations, run for ridiculous prices on the market and whose owners are admired and hated. if you look at D2 classic trading forums youll see this grassroots content creation dynamic. unique items destroy all this.
You are the 1%. This I am 100% sure of.
Uniques should not be insanely powerfull but they should at least stand out, serve a purpose. Thats what makes them unique. Right now the uniques in D3 dont really do that.
except uniques are NOT UNIQUE. they are standard cookie cutter items that everyone and their grandma uses. the rare items that i described are ACTUAL unique relics, one of a kind and with power so uncommon the common player can only dream of ever having them. and the sad thing about D2 LoD is these are never worth it. Well Blizz learned and in D3 they are, and this is a good thing from any reasonable perspective.
On May 20 2012 21:35 micronesia wrote: It's honestly been confusing my why everyone is talking about diablo 3 'builds'. I mean WHAT? A build is which abilities you choose to use at a given moment?
Its like how people say that they play a specific race in starcraft, they can change their race at any time but in general people stick to a specific one. Like in diablo 3 you don't use that many different skillsetups, if you use ~10 out of ~100000 feasible ones you are still unique in what you do.
I think the point is that it's not actually a build. It's a combination. You don't actually build your character's skill set with an outcome in mind. It's done ahead of time for you, and you just unlock different (often times useless) skills. Most of your levels and skill unlocks can't be put towards your ideal skill combination.
"Which build combination do you use" should be the question asked in D3 in regards to the 6 character class skills.
Just because it is easy to rebuild your character doesn't mean that it isn't a build.
I just think it's a misnomer to call everyone's combination of six skills a "build" (although, quite frankly, it's a word that everyone can relate to from previous games and almost get the same idea across, so I'm not exactly going to run a petition against using the word).
Everyone's "build" is going to be the same at the end of the day: At your current level, reflect on all your skills and see which combination works best. If you're level 60, you have every skill, and you didn't need to build your character any differently than anyone else (actually, you couldn't). Your build will be the same as everyone else's (i.e. unlocking everything) but your final combination of skills may be different.
Now that being said, I think it'd be interesting if people started working with the fact that they were stuck with auto-unlocks (which will come in time) and actually proposing their own combination changes every step of the way (e.g. at level 24 I use this combination, at level 32 I'm going to use this combination, and at level 40 I'm going to use this combination, etc.). That's pretty much the best outline a "build" can become in the D3 world, based on the fact that you can't actually diverge from other people in unlocking skill paths, in my opinion.
It seems to me to be the same thing as 'hotkey'. When a technical word gets popular in gaming, it gets attached to more and more loosely related things.
Hotkeys originally were when you did control+1, control+2, etc, to assign certain units or a building to a number (hence 'hot'). Shortcut keys were things like m for building a marine or k to upgrade high templar energy (or whatever it was). By SC2, shortcut keys and hotkeys were both being referred to as hotkeys... by users AND by blizzard.
The word 'build' originally had to do with (you guessed it) 'building' something. Now, a build is anything that is vaguely similar to what a build used to be (in this case choosing which abilities you want to use at a given time).
I agree, and I like your analogy. I suppose the etymology is going to evolve to suit the particular game, but I think we need to call a spade a spade if we're going to scrutinize over the success of playstyles and specifics. We're clearly not setting up builds every level of the way in D3, the same way we set them up in D2. As you and I both agree, it's really picking combinations from the same pool that everyone always has. And then, of course, you can customize with gear, but that's rather superficial in my opinion. So if that's what a D3 "build" is, all right. But I prefer the D2 way, which is the way that many other RPGs use (you're forced to actually make skill/ spell decisions and tech them up, rather than getting everything for free).
On May 21 2012 08:59 xLethargicax wrote: I am also hearing a lot of complaining about how "useless" some of the skills/runes are. Are you kidding me? Look at Diablo 2, half of the spells on that game were completely useless and were never utilized in PvP or PvM.
And if we felt that was the case in D2, we could ignore those "useless" skills and focus more on upgrading the spells we actually want each level. Something that cannot be done in D3. It's like (in terms of D2), wanting to make a blizzard sorc, but being forced to get exactly one skill point in every fire, lightning, and ice spell. So then I select blizzard and now I've *built* my sorc around blizzard? Hardly.
On May 21 2012 09:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: And if we felt that was the case in D2, we could ignore those "useless" skills and focus more on upgrading the spells we actually want each level. Something that cannot be done in D3. It's like (in terms of D2), wanting to make a blizzard sorc, but being forced to get exactly one skill point in every fire, lightning, and ice spell. So then I select blizzard and now I've *built* my sorc around blizzard? Hardly.
So...basically it's semantics about wanting to be a "Blizzard" sorc, and having some OCD disorder about having access to those skills despite not using them?
If you could get 20 points in every skill in D2, would you be crying too?
On May 21 2012 09:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: And if we felt that was the case in D2, we could ignore those "useless" skills and focus more on upgrading the spells we actually want each level. Something that cannot be done in D3. It's like (in terms of D2), wanting to make a blizzard sorc, but being forced to get exactly one skill point in every fire, lightning, and ice spell. So then I select blizzard and now I've *built* my sorc around blizzard? Hardly.
So...basically it's semantics about wanting to be a "Blizzard" sorc, and having some OCD disorder about having access to those skills despite not using them?
If you could get 20 points in every skill in D2, would you be crying too?
No it's not semantics and it's not trivial.
And I didn't see crying either. Why are you trying to hard to be disliked by the person you are disagreeing with?
Someone says something that not everyone agrees with (probably because they don't understand it) --> "OMG STOP CRYING"
Sorry for going off a bit but that annoys me. This may be the internet but I hope for more when reading on TL.
On May 21 2012 09:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: And if we felt that was the case in D2, we could ignore those "useless" skills and focus more on upgrading the spells we actually want each level. Something that cannot be done in D3. It's like (in terms of D2), wanting to make a blizzard sorc, but being forced to get exactly one skill point in every fire, lightning, and ice spell. So then I select blizzard and now I've *built* my sorc around blizzard? Hardly.
So...basically it's semantics about wanting to be a "Blizzard" sorc, and having some OCD disorder about having access to those skills despite not using them?
If you're actually going to ignore the posts that I, micronesia, and other people have written about what we think constitutes "building" unique builds, and instead throw out some ridiculously immature ad hominem about OCD, I don't really have anything else to add. But if you actually care about learning the opposing perspective, feel free to read the thread or play Diablo 2 (or any other RPG game that makes you choose your tech path instead of unlocking everything for you; there are plenty).
I dunno, I think it's a fair point about the builds. It means that there is little to no value in having two wizard characters. One character would just be strictly better or worse than the other.
I wouldn't be surprised if they add some more forced decisions in the expansion to make up for it or something. Would have to be only in the later difficulties. Or not. Who knows.
On May 20 2012 23:00 Backpack wrote: The new item system will be the downfall of D3.
Legendary/Set items are awful compared to random blues/yellows. There's no point in farming the cool stuff if your blue drop has double the stats. The stats themselves have been simplified so much that items will never be cool. Every upgrade is either more health or more damage. They got rid of all the cool modifiers that made D2 uniques, unique.
This link was not working 100% for me but it does a much more in-depth explanation of why nobody will care enough about items to actually farm and/or buy items for more than a few cents.
edit: The rest of the game is great, I think they did a great job with the gameplay (monks not included) but it just won't last.
Umm this is a good thing.. If unique/epic items are the best, everyone will end up with the same cookie cutter setups like in LoD. Its boring, bland and predictable. This is why Classic D2 and D1 are so good - everyone has different items, and with the various affix sets you have all the fun of combinatorics that premade uniques tend to eliminate. There is also the player created "lore" of especially rare items which have retardedly good affix or item color cominations, run for ridiculous prices on the market and whose owners are admired and hated. if you look at D2 classic trading forums youll see this grassroots content creation dynamic. unique items destroy all this.
You are the 1%. This I am 100% sure of.
Uniques should not be insanely powerfull but they should at least stand out, serve a purpose. Thats what makes them unique. Right now the uniques in D3 dont really do that.
Tossing around random numbers is awesome.
I guess I'm part of your 1 percent then.
I know many players who share the same sentiments as storkfan and I know there was a huge player base who used to love doing low level duels as well because it was so damn fun.
On May 21 2012 12:30 DoubleReed wrote: I dunno, I think it's a fair point about the builds. It means that there is little to no value in having two wizard characters. One character would just be strictly better or worse than the other.
I wouldn't be surprised if they add some more forced decisions in the expansion to make up for it or something. Would have to be only in the later difficulties. Or not. Who knows.
Well, it means that if you wanted to try out your other skills, you can, without getting rushed through the game. Honestly, getting rushed through the game in D2 to try out a different build isn't exactly playing the game. It just seems like this time around, Blizzard decided to cut the boilerplate so you can spend more time playing the game.
Agree with the story being very lacking. Enjoy about everything else.
The story is rather lacking because: (spoliers ahead) A: I didnt enjoy the forever used "hahaha you think you killed evil but I have a plan in my plans plan and predicted all of this, now I'll take over the world" only to obviously fail at it anyway. Its cheap and its been used a thousand times. I just kinda imagined an expansion or D4 where it turned out Diablo didnt actually die but rather "transferred his soul" or something to an angel before we killed him. So eventually we have to face not only an evil "imbued" with all 7 prime evils, but now also an evil imbued with 7 prime evil + one superfallenangelofgoodandevil kind of thing. Now wouldnt that be an awesome continuation for D4 or an expansion? Or not. But thats basically what the D3 story is, just on a previous level on plan-ception. I couldve come up with the D3 story in an hour. B: Dont really like the "scope" of the whole story. The never ending battle between good and evil (or angels and demons in this case) shouldnt..... end. It makes any continuation of it rather stupid, and its also rather stupid that a normal mortal can just walk in and finish the deal when a whole fucking army of angels failed (seriously, those angels are complete pussies). Stories dont have to be the grandest of the grand. If it has depth enough it can be about something much less grand. C: As pointed out, the character depth is kinda meh, and the evils arent evil in any more advanced way than "Now I will kill you and take over the world muahahahhaa".
The one good part about the story was Act1. It was sort of interesting to find out information about the fallen star, who the stranger was, etc. It wasnt all obvious and it wasnt something you could figure out immediately (well, I didnt anyway). Act 2-4 was terrible.
Still, an overall very good game though. Gameplay and character setup was beyond expectations.
I'm picking diablo 3 up two days from now. A few of my mates said the story is actually good, but then again they have never played BW and D2's campaign/storyline so I guess the perspective of newer player is that the story is good. The thing that I really want to know however is this, is the story actually that bad? I mean it can't be as disappointing as SC2's storyline, right? Story is a large factor for me as a gamer so I'm kinda dwelling and worrying about this faction.
I know there are posts before me that explains it but I wan't to have some data of opinions
I think the story is fine, but if story is a huge deal for you, Diablo is definitely not the franchise you should be looking at. The story is there as a backdrop for you to kill a billion monsters and get better items, it's not all that important.
On May 21 2012 18:15 Tobberoth wrote: I think the story is fine, but if story is a huge deal for you, Diablo is definitely not the franchise you should be looking at. The story is there as a backdrop for you to kill a billion monsters and get better items, it's not all that important.
Actually I think I worded that wrong, I should say having a good story is a big plus for me, although it isn't essential. Its just a nice thing to have within a game.
On May 21 2012 18:15 Tobberoth wrote: I think the story is fine, but if story is a huge deal for you, Diablo is definitely not the franchise you should be looking at. The story is there as a backdrop for you to kill a billion monsters and get better items, it's not all that important.
If the story is not part of an RPG then.....
The whole story is full of crap. The most irritating thing for me was that my character doesn't get any credit in the cinematics. Tyrael appears everywhere but he doesn't do shit. Just a stupid angel that wanted to become mortal to prove a point. And the angels are supposed to be the shit, but they are useless. Everybody comes in the cutscenes after i beat bosses to congratulate me and talk to me from a high ground. I ask them where were you bitches when I was in the fight?
Also, why only 4 cinematics, 2 of witch we have seen before launch? I expected 2 per act, but I guess the cinematic team is busy with starcraft? o.O
On May 21 2012 18:15 Tobberoth wrote: I think the story is fine, but if story is a huge deal for you, Diablo is definitely not the franchise you should be looking at. The story is there as a backdrop for you to kill a billion monsters and get better items, it's not all that important.
If the story is not part of an RPG then.....
The whole story is full of crap. The most irritating thing for me was that my character doesn't get any credit in the cinematics. Tyrael appears everywhere but he doesn't do shit. Just a stupid angel that wanted to become mortal to prove a point. And the angels are supposed to be the shit, but they are useless. Everybody comes in the cutscenes after i beat bosses to congratulate me and talk to me from a high ground. I ask them where were you bitches when I was in the fight?
Also, why only 4 cinematics, 2 of witch we have seen before launch? I expected 2 per act, but I guess the cinematic team is busy with starcraft? o.O
Diablo is an ARPG. Find me one ARPG with a good story and we'll talk.
As for not getting credit, it was more or less the same in D2. The angels aren't useless, they were however disabled by Diablo attacking the arch, which fortunately mortals like you and Tyrael weren't affected by (though if I remember correctly, Tyrael doesn't help out in the fight vs Diablo, which I agree doesn't make any sense.)
On May 21 2012 18:15 Tobberoth wrote: I think the story is fine, but if story is a huge deal for you, Diablo is definitely not the franchise you should be looking at. The story is there as a backdrop for you to kill a billion monsters and get better items, it's not all that important.
If the story is not part of an RPG then.....
The whole story is full of crap. The most irritating thing for me was that my character doesn't get any credit in the cinematics. Tyrael appears everywhere but he doesn't do shit. Just a stupid angel that wanted to become mortal to prove a point. And the angels are supposed to be the shit, but they are useless. Everybody comes in the cutscenes after i beat bosses to congratulate me and talk to me from a high ground. I ask them where were you bitches when I was in the fight?
Also, why only 4 cinematics, 2 of witch we have seen before launch? I expected 2 per act, but I guess the cinematic team is busy with starcraft? o.O
Diablo is an ARPG. Find me one ARPG with a good story and we'll talk.
As for not getting credit, it was more or less the same in D2. The angels aren't useless, they were however disabled by Diablo attacking the arch, which fortunately mortals like you and Tyrael weren't affected by (though if I remember correctly, Tyrael doesn't help out in the fight vs Diablo, which I agree doesn't make any sense.)
D1 story was good at least the way the quest were narrated made it very convincing imo
On May 21 2012 18:15 Tobberoth wrote: I think the story is fine, but if story is a huge deal for you, Diablo is definitely not the franchise you should be looking at. The story is there as a backdrop for you to kill a billion monsters and get better items, it's not all that important.
If the story is not part of an RPG then.....
The whole story is full of crap. The most irritating thing for me was that my character doesn't get any credit in the cinematics. Tyrael appears everywhere but he doesn't do shit. Just a stupid angel that wanted to become mortal to prove a point. And the angels are supposed to be the shit, but they are useless. Everybody comes in the cutscenes after i beat bosses to congratulate me and talk to me from a high ground. I ask them where were you bitches when I was in the fight?
Also, why only 4 cinematics, 2 of witch we have seen before launch? I expected 2 per act, but I guess the cinematic team is busy with starcraft? o.O
Diablo is an ARPG. Find me one ARPG with a good story and we'll talk.
As for not getting credit, it was more or less the same in D2. The angels aren't useless, they were however disabled by Diablo attacking the arch, which fortunately mortals like you and Tyrael weren't affected by (though if I remember correctly, Tyrael doesn't help out in the fight vs Diablo, which I agree doesn't make any sense.)
Blizzard has books written after its lore and has screen writers making this aweful stories. Diablo III is not our average RPG that tries to breakthrough.
The angels are in trouble some time in the end, but even then I free them and they don't come to help me vs Diablo. And Tyrael barely helps during the previous Acts.
And the way they just sit in Tristram near the fire while I go all over the place is just a turn off. Is this shit serious or what?
On May 21 2012 18:15 Tobberoth wrote: I think the story is fine, but if story is a huge deal for you, Diablo is definitely not the franchise you should be looking at. The story is there as a backdrop for you to kill a billion monsters and get better items, it's not all that important.
If the story is not part of an RPG then.....
The whole story is full of crap. The most irritating thing for me was that my character doesn't get any credit in the cinematics. Tyrael appears everywhere but he doesn't do shit. Just a stupid angel that wanted to become mortal to prove a point. And the angels are supposed to be the shit, but they are useless. Everybody comes in the cutscenes after i beat bosses to congratulate me and talk to me from a high ground. I ask them where were you bitches when I was in the fight?
Also, why only 4 cinematics, 2 of witch we have seen before launch? I expected 2 per act, but I guess the cinematic team is busy with starcraft? o.O
Diablo is an ARPG. Find me one ARPG with a good story and we'll talk.
As for not getting credit, it was more or less the same in D2. The angels aren't useless, they were however disabled by Diablo attacking the arch, which fortunately mortals like you and Tyrael weren't affected by (though if I remember correctly, Tyrael doesn't help out in the fight vs Diablo, which I agree doesn't make any sense.)
D1 story was good at least the way the quest were narrated made it very convincing imo
If you like D1 story, you really aren't in a position to hate on D3s story :/
On May 21 2012 19:54 zeru wrote: Not sure why people care so much about story in a hack n slash game. The story has been awful throughout all diablo games. I like the way the whole item system works, except that 99% of all legendary and set items are trash and are too rare, especially low level ones. Fun game overall, and inferno/hell isnt actually that easy. Wish there was xp loss on death pre 60 though.
so your idea of item balance is everyone running around with the same cookie cutter item sets with no originality? because thats what wow/lod style uniques end up in
If anyone is suggesting that diablo 1 or 2 had a better story than diablo 3 then I dont know what to say. That's not even rose tinted glasses. That's like full-on delusion.
On May 21 2012 19:54 zeru wrote: Not sure why people care so much about story in a hack n slash game. The story has been awful throughout all diablo games. I like the way the whole item system works, except that 99% of all legendary and set items are trash and are too rare, especially low level ones. Fun game overall, and inferno/hell isnt actually that easy. Wish there was xp loss on death pre 60 though.
so your idea of item balance is everyone running around with the same cookie cutter item sets with no originality? because thats what wow/lod style uniques end up in
Currently the legendaries/set items are below average rares. That's not the way it should be imo, they could at least be useful, but you can buy better rares for 20k, and runewords were the main reason for dumb op builds in lod mostly.
runewords are essentially crafted uniques. and even the non-op builds use them. hell before 1.10 when almost all runewords sucked people still ran around with the same old cookie cutter unique combos in LoD
I've really enjoyed the game so far. The story is not the best but it's not completely bad either. I enjoyed the cinematics and playing with friends is always fun even tho it means that the enemies will be harder.
The story isn't as terrible as you say it is. It isn't great, but it is serviceable for this type of game, and it is held up by the amazing production values.
I'm at the end of hell and never had to quit out of a game because of an elite spawn ability combination. I've skipped a few, but that is because they weren't really important. You may actually be bad at video games. The thing that kills me about this is that people bitch about how "easy" the game is and that the act bosses aren't hard, but when they find something that actually murders them, they claim it is terrible game design and needs to be fixed. Right. The elite spawns are SUPPOSED to be the hardest thing in the game, because in reality they have the highest chance to drop good loot (another game design decision), so they should be that hard. There can definitely be a few combinations that feel "cheap," but I've been able to kill every elite spawn if I wanted to. You can't please everyone, and I think making things hard is good.
Finally, about the skill UI(and only the skill UI) being clunky; it is. I might be going out on a limb here, but I honestly think this might be intentionally on Blizzard's end. They REALLY don't want people swapping skills mid-combat, or running around with the skill menu open, and this is a big deterrent for this. You could argue that the cool-down they put in is enough (and it probably is at the higher difficulties), but I think they wanted to add another barrier. That was my interpretation of that since beta, but it might just be "bad game design." I don't think it is too terrible, it just takes a few more clicks than you would expect.
On May 21 2012 22:11 DoubleReed wrote: If anyone is suggesting that diablo 1 or 2 had a better story than diablo 3 then I dont know what to say. That's not even rose tinted glasses. That's like full-on delusion.
D1 didn't. People may be confusing atmosphere with story. The atmosphere D1 creates is superb, almost because you have so little information. All you know is that the king has gone nuts, there's demons in the cathedral and everyone is scared shitless. It pulls this all off extremely well for a game of its time. BUT the dialogue is very cliche and the voice acting is beyond awful.
D2 did have a better story. The cut-scenes were more cinematic, the voice acting was better, the places you visit and people you meet are interesting and varied. If you want to be reductionist about it you can argue that D2 and D3 have equally simple stories (and this is mostly true), but the way the story manifests itself in long speeches from NPCs and cryptic cut-scenes is just... better.
The in game cinematics are really shitty in D3. I don't know why Blizz does these. Just hire a better voice actor and have the characters tell me what I need to know, instead of awkwardly moving low polygon models around in a glitchy 2 minute movie.
On May 21 2012 22:11 DoubleReed wrote: If anyone is suggesting that diablo 1 or 2 had a better story than diablo 3 then I dont know what to say. That's not even rose tinted glasses. That's like full-on delusion.
D1 didn't. People may be confusing atmosphere with story. The atmosphere D1 creates is superb, almost because you have so little information. All you know is that the king has gone nuts, there's demons in the cathedral and everyone is scared shitless. It pulls this all off extremely well for a game of its time. BUT the dialogue is very cliche and the voice acting is beyond awful.
D2 did have a better story. The cut-scenes were more cinematic, the voice acting was better, the places you visit and people you meet are interesting and varied. If you want to be reductionist about it you can argue that D2 and D3 have equally simple stories (and this is mostly true), but the way the story manifests itself in long speeches from NPCs and cryptic cut-scenes is just... better.
The in game cinematics are really shitty in D3. I don't know why Blizz does these. Just hire a better voice actor and have the characters tell me what I need to know, instead of awkwardly moving low polygon models around in a glitchy 2 minute movie.
While we're at shitting on the game, I have to agree on the voice acting. In the german version, after you kill azmodan, Tyrael comes around and talks like Chill did in his neutral commentary video. 'You beat Azmodan. You truly are a hero. What would we do without you. Now we have to catch him in the soulstone.' - same intonation, no tension, just boring and without emotion.
1) Story. If you are dissapointed with the story, well, what did you expect? Shakespare? There's no such thing as an original story. Repeat after me.
There is no such thing as an original story.
Every single theme known to man, with every single twist and turn has been mapped so extensively by books, TV shows, movies, etc, that to expect anything huge from Diablo 3 is being chidish to such an extreme that it's unreasonable. I even daresay that even single type of character is a cliche at this point. Every hero type has been done to death. Yes, they have. The jerk hero. Seen that a million times before. The hero with a shady past. Done. The hero who has hidden sexual perversions and is juuuust able to control them? Also way overdone.
2) Gameplay. It's classic Diablo, which is supposed to be a clickfest. If you didn't enjoy Diablo 1 and 2, how in God's name did you think that Diablo 3 was going to be any different? It's like saying you hated Dragon Quest on the 8-bit NES, and then suddenly wondering in complete shock, why you hate WoW so much.
On May 21 2012 22:11 DoubleReed wrote: If anyone is suggesting that diablo 1 or 2 had a better story than diablo 3 then I dont know what to say. That's not even rose tinted glasses. That's like full-on delusion.
D1 didn't. People may be confusing atmosphere with story. The atmosphere D1 creates is superb, almost because you have so little information. All you know is that the king has gone nuts, there's demons in the cathedral and everyone is scared shitless. It pulls this all off extremely well for a game of its time. BUT the dialogue is very cliche and the voice acting is beyond awful.
D2 did have a better story. The cut-scenes were more cinematic, the voice acting was better, the places you visit and people you meet are interesting and varied. If you want to be reductionist about it you can argue that D2 and D3 have equally simple stories (and this is mostly true), but the way the story manifests itself in long speeches from NPCs and cryptic cut-scenes is just... better.
The in game cinematics are really shitty in D3. I don't know why Blizz does these. Just hire a better voice actor and have the characters tell me what I need to know, instead of awkwardly moving low polygon models around in a glitchy 2 minute movie.
Diablo I also had tomes you would find randomly that give you walls of text. Don't forget that.
I dunno if you can really say the cut scenes were more cinematic in diablo 2. They were certainly slower paced. But the Diablo III cinematics are shorter and much more action packed. Which in many ways is more appropriate to the game.
On May 21 2012 22:11 DoubleReed wrote: If anyone is suggesting that diablo 1 or 2 had a better story than diablo 3 then I dont know what to say. That's not even rose tinted glasses. That's like full-on delusion.
D1 didn't. People may be confusing atmosphere with story. The atmosphere D1 creates is superb, almost because you have so little information. All you know is that the king has gone nuts, there's demons in the cathedral and everyone is scared shitless. It pulls this all off extremely well for a game of its time. BUT the dialogue is very cliche and the voice acting is beyond awful.
D2 did have a better story. The cut-scenes were more cinematic, the voice acting was better, the places you visit and people you meet are interesting and varied. If you want to be reductionist about it you can argue that D2 and D3 have equally simple stories (and this is mostly true), but the way the story manifests itself in long speeches from NPCs and cryptic cut-scenes is just... better.
The in game cinematics are really shitty in D3. I don't know why Blizz does these. Just hire a better voice actor and have the characters tell me what I need to know, instead of awkwardly moving low polygon models around in a glitchy 2 minute movie.
Diablo I also had tomes you would find randomly that give you walls of text. Don't forget that.
I dunno if you can really say the cut scenes were more cinematic in diablo 2. They were certainly slower paced. But the Diablo III cinematics are shorter and much more action packed. Which in many ways is more appropriate to the game.
You like long speeches from NPCs? Really?
D1 has that classical Western RPG vibe going where you have random quests that you can choose to do or not, skills that you can take or not, items. Shrine bonuses to permanent stats that you can take or not. like everything is optional, you craft your own story of the scary and dangerous world around you. D2 and D3 kinda let go of that
The plot, such as it is, is a loop of you foiling plans and being told it doesn't matter because it was all part of the plan. It's really bad and completely uninteresting - no one is asking for an original story, but a story well told is not too much to ask for after this many years.
Near the end someone says, if you bother to ask, that killing Diablo might kill Leah. I didn't care at all. I didn't care because I don't care about any of the characters and I didn't care because the game completely fails to create any sort of threat.
The truth is though it's utterly unimportant which is probably why they phoned it in. I realised this after completing it for the first time, restarting immediately and realising I was having an identical experience in Act I as I just had in Act IV.
In terms of my long term character goals I expect it will be focused on reducing mouse clicking before I develop severe RSI.
On May 21 2012 22:11 DoubleReed wrote: If anyone is suggesting that diablo 1 or 2 had a better story than diablo 3 then I dont know what to say. That's not even rose tinted glasses. That's like full-on delusion.
D1 didn't. People may be confusing atmosphere with story. The atmosphere D1 creates is superb, almost because you have so little information. All you know is that the king has gone nuts, there's demons in the cathedral and everyone is scared shitless. It pulls this all off extremely well for a game of its time. BUT the dialogue is very cliche and the voice acting is beyond awful.
D2 did have a better story. The cut-scenes were more cinematic, the voice acting was better, the places you visit and people you meet are interesting and varied. If you want to be reductionist about it you can argue that D2 and D3 have equally simple stories (and this is mostly true), but the way the story manifests itself in long speeches from NPCs and cryptic cut-scenes is just... better.
The in game cinematics are really shitty in D3. I don't know why Blizz does these. Just hire a better voice actor and have the characters tell me what I need to know, instead of awkwardly moving low polygon models around in a glitchy 2 minute movie.
Diablo I also had tomes you would find randomly that give you walls of text. Don't forget that.
I dunno if you can really say the cut scenes were more cinematic in diablo 2. They were certainly slower paced. But the Diablo III cinematics are shorter and much more action packed. Which in many ways is more appropriate to the game.
You like long speeches from NPCs? Really?
D1 has that classical Western RPG vibe going where you have random quests that you can choose to do or not, skills that you can take or not, items. Shrine bonuses to permanent stats that you can take or not. like everything is optional, you craft your own story of the scary and dangerous world around you. D2 and D3 kinda let go of that
What? No it really didn't. You found quests like every 2 or 3 levels (and there are only 16 levels). Quests in D1 are rare enough that not doing them is just totally boring. In Western RPGs there are usually several quests and storylines to do, that's why it works. Diablo I you couldn't craft your own story at all, you simply have the "choice" not to do the fancy quest lines.
Plus in D2 and D3 there are optional zones where you can freely explore and treasure hunt.
If you've somehow crafted Diablo I into a nonlinear storyline then I don't know what to say.
It did have randomized quests, and Diablo III actually brings this idea back with randomized events.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2aaHV.png)
![[image loading]](http://gadgetsin.com/uploads/2011/10/diablo_iii_cinematic_trailer_black_soulstone.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7NELa.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CAeTk.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DjLDY.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UYCKA.png)
taking my time with the game though
at least the way the quest were narrated made it very convincing imo
