• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:16
CET 10:16
KST 18:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT28Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0254LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Terran AddOns placement Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) WardiTV Team League Season 10 RSL Season 4 announced for March-April The Dave Testa Open #11
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare Mutation # 512 Overclocked
Brood War
General
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 TvZ is the most complete match up Soma Explains: JD's Unrelenting Aggro vs FlaSh BW General Discussion CasterMuse Youtube
Tourneys
[LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1 ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason New broswer game : STG-World
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Mexico's Drug War
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
YOUTUBE VIDEO
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1636 users

6 months late - thoughts on Skyrim

Blogs > iamahydralisk
Post a Reply
iamahydralisk
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States813 Posts
May 17 2012 17:27 GMT
#1
Got the game two days ago because I finished my semester at university and I actually have time for games now. I've played Fallout 3, Morrowind, and and bit of Oblivion, so I knew what to expect, mostly. I didn't love any of those games and as much as I hate to say it, I have the same problem with Skyrim that I did with those games.

First impressions of Skyrim were pretty good, although as soon as I got to the character creation, I felt like I was playing Morrowind again. I realize they're trying to create a comprehensive lore so it's hard for them to add major things, but still, it would be nice to see a new race or two. Especially seeing as how Skyrim comes 200 years after Oblivion (and I'm assuming Oblivion comes after Morrowind), it would make sense for them to add something. That was a bit disappointing, but nothing too bad.

When I got to actually playing the game, I was both happy and disappointed. I was happy because I was in the mood to play an open world game like Morrowind, and I was disappointed because I realized that in many ways, Bethesda just remade Morrowind with a new world and prettier graphics. I'm about ten hours into the game now and while I'm enjoying it a lot, I can't help but feel like I've done this all before. At its core, I feel like the game is very similar to Morrowind, and I feel like that core is pretty outdated compared to newer games. The basic gameplay is very similar to Morrowind, and its been ten years since Morrowind came out.

My biggest gripe is something that Bethesda has flat out failed on in every one of their open world games, and that's creating a compelling narrative. It both amazes and saddens me that when it comes to story depth and character development, Skyrim is basically Morrowind all over again. It amazes me that people claim that Skyrim is game of the year or anything near when it lacks two of the most fundamental RPG elements (IMO), those being an enthralling story and well developed characters. I wish Bethesda would focus less on creating a wide open world (that honestly gets pretty old when you've explored the same caves or ruins over and over) and more on creating a deep story with likable characters. I get a major nerd boner when I think of a game in the style of Skyrim with the story and character attention of a game like Persona 4 (just an example). I really hope that Bethesda works a lot more on characters and story for their next ES game, but I don't expect them to. As long as people keep buying the shit out of the mostly similar product they've been putting out for ten years, they're going to keep making the same product.


summary: Skyrim is a good game and what's there is really well designed, but I really can't justify calling it GOTY or anything near that because it's extremely lacking in two pretty basic areas (story and characters). here's hoping that Bethesda actually does something different for the next ES game.

"well if youre looking for long term, go safe, if you expect it to end either way, go risky. wow. just like sc2" - friend of mine when I asked him which girl to pick
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-17 19:43:07
May 17 2012 19:41 GMT
#2
Here's the thing.

Elder Scrolls took a turn in the wrong direction since Daggerfall for the most part, and definitely since Morrowind.

The whole point behind sandbox-y roleplaying games is the emphasis on the so-called low-level and mid-level stories - stories which are not designed in detail and explicitly served to the player, but rather the stories that the player formulates and builds himself based on the experiences his character has in the world. Think Minecraft or Dwarf Fortress as the games that create and exploit these stories brilliantly without having a single line of narrated text or dialogue, let alone predefined characters, written anywhere.

Daggerfall was a brilliant game in the sense that it used - at the time very impressive - procedurally generated world. Daggerfall world is still one of the physically largest worlds ever created in video games. Interaction between characters was also mostly "primitive" looking (not in the sense of bad primitive, but simple building-block primitive), and instead of having dialogue options to choose from, you instead had to "construct" your query from a list of topics and a set of options, which included a lot of different things including the "tone" you speak in. Like so:

[image loading]

This interface alone gave you a possibility to personalize your character, what he is like and how he behaves, more so than a vast majority of modern RPGs does. Morrowind already started going in this weird middle-way direction by dropping the procedural world generation in favor of a premade (albeit huge) continent and NPC characters. It still retained some of the Elder Scrolls charm by keeping their conversation inteface fairly basic and sticking to the "list of topics" dialogue system.

And then everything went downhill from there when Bethesda decided to make their games a visceral experience benchmark and stripped the series-defining features entirely in favor of making an artificial "emulation" of an open sandbox world mixed with heavily scripted quests, story, and a ton of elements that made the games seem less immersive and less realistic.

In short (!), I really have to disagree. Open world sandbox games do not go well with scripted narrative and well fleshed-out characters. The more the authors try to (pre)define the story and flesh out the characters, the less potent and influential the open world elements are and the less inherent freedom and personality the player has in the game. The more detail you put into the story and characters, the more static the game world inevitably becomes, and with that, so does your gameplay experience.

Ideally one should go for one OR the other, but Bethesda with Oblivion and Skyrim is the perfect example of why trying to do both at the same time can never turn out well (which is not to say that it can't sell well, which is a motivation behind a lot of the decisions they've made).
iamahydralisk
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States813 Posts
May 18 2012 04:52 GMT
#3
On May 18 2012 04:41 Talin wrote:
Here's the thing.

Elder Scrolls took a turn in the wrong direction since Daggerfall for the most part, and definitely since Morrowind.

The whole point behind sandbox-y roleplaying games is the emphasis on the so-called low-level and mid-level stories - stories which are not designed in detail and explicitly served to the player, but rather the stories that the player formulates and builds himself based on the experiences his character has in the world. Think Minecraft or Dwarf Fortress as the games that create and exploit these stories brilliantly without having a single line of narrated text or dialogue, let alone predefined characters, written anywhere.

Daggerfall was a brilliant game in the sense that it used - at the time very impressive - procedurally generated world. Daggerfall world is still one of the physically largest worlds ever created in video games. Interaction between characters was also mostly "primitive" looking (not in the sense of bad primitive, but simple building-block primitive), and instead of having dialogue options to choose from, you instead had to "construct" your query from a list of topics and a set of options, which included a lot of different things including the "tone" you speak in. Like so:

[image loading]

This interface alone gave you a possibility to personalize your character, what he is like and how he behaves, more so than a vast majority of modern RPGs does. Morrowind already started going in this weird middle-way direction by dropping the procedural world generation in favor of a premade (albeit huge) continent and NPC characters. It still retained some of the Elder Scrolls charm by keeping their conversation inteface fairly basic and sticking to the "list of topics" dialogue system.

And then everything went downhill from there when Bethesda decided to make their games a visceral experience benchmark and stripped the series-defining features entirely in favor of making an artificial "emulation" of an open sandbox world mixed with heavily scripted quests, story, and a ton of elements that made the games seem less immersive and less realistic.

In short (!), I really have to disagree. Open world sandbox games do not go well with scripted narrative and well fleshed-out characters. The more the authors try to (pre)define the story and flesh out the characters, the less potent and influential the open world elements are and the less inherent freedom and personality the player has in the game. The more detail you put into the story and characters, the more static the game world inevitably becomes, and with that, so does your gameplay experience.

Ideally one should go for one OR the other, but Bethesda with Oblivion and Skyrim is the perfect example of why trying to do both at the same time can never turn out well (which is not to say that it can't sell well, which is a motivation behind a lot of the decisions they've made).

I can't comment on the ES games before Morrowind (as I haven't played them), but I have to disagree that you can't have open world sandbox games with good stories and characters. Case and point, Rockstar games. The GTA series and Red Dead Redemption are both shining examples of how open world games can have really well fleshed out characters and interesting stories too. They may not be quite as open or large as the Elder Scrolls games, but like I said before, I'd be perfectly fine with Bethesda sacrificing some of the games' physical sizes if it meant they were going to flesh out the characters and story more.
"well if youre looking for long term, go safe, if you expect it to end either way, go risky. wow. just like sc2" - friend of mine when I asked him which girl to pick
Funnytoss
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Taiwan1471 Posts
May 18 2012 05:18 GMT
#4
The S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series is also a good example of a fairly wide open game where there's still a strong storyline holding things together.
AIV_Funnytoss and sGs.Funnytoss on iCCup
iamahydralisk
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States813 Posts
May 20 2012 00:54 GMT
#5
additional thoughts: been playing more and enjoying the heck out of the game, but I honestly still can't help but feel like the game is really outdated. it's the little things... like how bethesda used the same character sprites for some of the different characters (acceptable for more "animalistic" races, but using the same exact models for different humans?), and using the same voice actors for a lot of the npcs. they don't even try to hide it most of the time. also how a lot of the shopkeepers have exactly the same lines... and how there are some parts where two NPCs have the same lines but different VAs, and all I can think is "if you gave them different VAs, why not different lines?" this kinda stuff just kills the immersion for me a bit. I mean, come on Bethesda. Stuff like that is just lazy in today's gaming industry.

also, random complaint: not being able to sell stolen goods at most shops. I can understand why shopkeepers wouldn't want to buy stolen stuff, but the thing is, how do they know it's stolen? sure, it might be obvious if I roll into Whiterun with 150 bottles of Honningbrew Mead (real life examples ftw), but how do they know that armor I'm trying to sell wasn't looted from a bandit or something? it's not like there's some big flashing "I STOLE THIS LOL" sign on every stolen item I try to sell. it's even worse because I remember this being a problem in Morrowind too, and I bet it was a problem in Oblivion as well (haven't played it enough to remember). this is completely nonsensical and it's lazy as fuck on Bethesda's part for this same problem to persist when it should've been removed after Morrowind.

honestly, I feel like the whole game is just lazy overall. Bethesda is a company that's very good at what they do, but they never take any risks or step outside their comfort zones as game developers. Skyrim is a very well designed game, but virtually none of it is new or innovative, and like I said before, some of it is just downright lazy.
"well if youre looking for long term, go safe, if you expect it to end either way, go risky. wow. just like sc2" - friend of mine when I asked him which girl to pick
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiG Sty Festival
09:00
PiGFest 7 Playoffs Day 2
Reynor vs Clem
ShowTime vs SHIN
PiGStarcraft813
3DClanTV 45
IndyStarCraft 14
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft813
FoxeR 97
Rex 52
BRAT_OK 47
IndyStarCraft 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 26574
Rain 1315
GuemChi 1097
Jaedong 533
Larva 303
Sharp 180
Leta 148
ggaemo 146
Dewaltoss 146
Light 144
[ Show more ]
BeSt 90
Terrorterran 12
Dota 2
XaKoH 696
NeuroSwarm122
League of Legends
JimRising 535
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1262
kRYSTAL_8
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor122
Other Games
singsing1248
B2W.Neo299
C9.Mang0275
mouzStarbuck123
Mew2King41
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick773
Counter-Strike
PGL347
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 306
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1060
• Stunt887
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
44m
OSC
1h 44m
SC Evo Complete
4h 14m
DaveTesta Events
8h 59m
AI Arena Tournament
10h 44m
Replay Cast
14h 44m
PiG Sty Festival
23h 44m
Maru vs TBD
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-26
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.