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If there's one thing about TL, it's the blog feature. I'm quite happy that there's a way on TL to vent out a personal issue or something else. Something that wouldn't make for a proper thread in the various TL sections. This is a good feature because it's going to allow me to write down some of my thoughts and perhaps vent some frustration.
Feel free to bounce back at what I say, agree or disagree or call me rude things.
Let's start with two little stories:
When Orb was fired from EG because of having said racist things, I didn't care. He sounded alright as a caster when I watched Idra vs Huk. That's pretty much all I had to say on him. When I saw that he got fired for saying a few racist words online, I felt that some people overreacted. I looked at what Orb had said. Something about being a nigger faggot. It certainly didn't have racism behind it though, frustration was what I saw. But lack of professionalism and Alex Garfield's position on the matter seemed to seal the deal. Orb was fired. I felt it was a bit harsh, but I understood AG's decision. Again, I didn't care.
Now we have Destiny calling someone a gook. Again, I didn't think it was a big deal. I don't exactly like it when Destiny flames and prefer it when he's funny. But he's a professional player, he does this shit for a living, when he gets frustrated he flames. Happens to everyone. Big deal... or not. People went bat shit crazy over something pretty fucking irrelevant if you compare it to anything that matters at all.
They had it coming to them:
But these two anecdotes are beside the point. Destiny has left Quantic and continues to stream. Orb is probably still doing whatever he was doing before. The turmoil is gone, life goes on. If there's anything to learn from these two "incidents" is that people need to be careful with the words they use, especially "hate" words. These obviously include nigger, gook. But these are two words amidst hundreds.
Note, before you bash that "reply" button and start writing a detailed post on how Destiny and Orb both had it coming to them, that I'm not defending either of them. I'm merely stating, or observing, that they said certain things in a certain way and that that triggered a certain reaction from the community. Clearly, many people in the community refuse to allow hateful words. They're so morally against it that they'll argue hard and long to defend what they believe in. I believe that the Destiny incident thread got 140 pages in it the space of a day or two. That's half of Stephano's fanclub.. and it didn't go on because mods closed it.
How noble of them to protect their values so eagerly. How noble of them to protect people from being offended. From being hurt by hurtful words.
What about these people?
Unfortunately, these words are still used all the time. I get a nagging little feeling every time I see a professional player use one these days. I ask myself why they haven't been told to stop.
I hear Stephano calling Hasuobs a Nazi on stream, asking how many Jewish people he's burned. To which Hasuobs answers that he's clearly an Islamic terrorist anyway. I wondered if holocaust victims, or their families, were offended by that. I wondered if any Muslims were offended by that.
I see Jinro posting this:
On May 14 2012 18:21 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
They sound like retards, but deadpan absurd humor is pretty swedish imo. And I wonder how people who have retarded or autistic people in their family feel about seeing such words used.
I see Huk posting a Youtube video of a home made for autistic people, suggesting that it's some team's new practice house. I wonder if anyone who worked to help autistic people was offended by that.
This could go on for a while, if I had the time or patience to dig dirt up on everyone. Note that I don't have anything against Jinro or Stephano. But they are using hate words. Retard is just as offensive as faggot or gook. It's a horrible name for someone "different". In fact retard is probably more offensive. Whenever I see an autistic person I feel sorry for them and I feel they should be respected. Using their illness to insult other people is just as distasteful, just as bad, as calling someone a gook or a nigger faggot.
The icing on the cake is seeing this thread, left open. People arguing about whether or not black people are really dumber than other "races" or not. Well fuck, is that not racism? I was half in mind to write to TL's sponsors and complain that TL was having racial discussions on their boards. Or complain to them because Jinro used the words retard. Because that's exactly what happened to Destiny. Exactly what happened to Destiny. Exactly what happened to Destiny.
Fortunately for TL I'm not an imbecile who would do such a thing. I'll not sink down to the level of Destiny's haters. I'll not sink down to such pettiness. I'm not a disgusting and vile fool with too much time on his hands. An internet white knight. But some people are. Mind you, that thread is much more offensive than anything Destiny has ever said on stream.
The hypocrisy of the community is intoxicating. It's absurd. Witch hunts for Destiny and Orb, we'll do someone else in a month. Disgusting. That's what it is. Disgusting. I'm not defending Destiny or Orb. Nor am I "attacking" Jinro, Huk or Stephano. What I'm pointing out is that the community has decided that certain behavior was deemed inappropriate and two people have already suffered consequences (in a rather sudden, surprising and nasty way I might add). Yet that behavior is still around everywhere. Consistency please?
TL moderation should at least have the decency to close a blatantly racist discussion. It's appalling that people even talk about such things.
  
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I don't really know where I stand on this issue, but I just want to say that if you really believe "retard" is more offensive than nigger or faggot, you are gravely misinformed. Retard can be used in a scientific manner, neither nigger nor faggot can. They are words used for the express purpose of hurting people, and specifically black or gay people.
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On May 15 2012 02:40 CyDe wrote:
I don't really know where I stand on this issue, but I just want to say that if you really believe "retard" is more offensive than nigger or faggot, you are gravely misinformed. Retard can be used in a scientific manner, neither nigger nor faggot can. They are words used for the express purpose of hurting people, and specifically black or gay people.
Retard designates a handicapped person. When you insult someone with the word retard, you're implying that that person is stupid. Which then implies that the handicapped person is stupid. Do you think that a term used to designate autistic people should be used as an insult? It insults the handicapped person just as much as the person you're insulting, unfortunately. It's just as offensive as using a word that has been used to designate a gay person. Retard can be used in science, nigger can be used between two black people to designate each other in a friendly way.
Which leads me to point out that words are merely tools to express ideas. People should pay attention to the ideas behind the words, not the words themselves.
But if the words themselves are the problem as the witch hunters so clearly stated, then by logic, you can't call anyone a faggot, retard or make holocaust jokes.
Nor should there be a thread open to discuss whether or not black people are dumber than the rest of humanity. Because that is true racism, not a few misspoken words in a video game chat.
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It's the funniest thing about people who make the argument that stuff like this is offensive, they never take the time to consider that this literally applies to everything, not just what the people they don't like say.
Anyway I'll comment what I always comment when this comes up, I don't have a problem with what pros or casters say, nor do I practice any "hate" speech, country bashing, etc. It's not my place to judge, and life is too short to take everything so seriously. I have been made fun of before for being a Christian. It's life and it happens 
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On May 15 2012 02:58 mastergriggy wrote:It's the funniest thing about people who make the argument that stuff like this is offensive, they never take the time to consider that this literally applies to everything, not just what the people they don't like say. Anyway I'll comment what I always comment when this comes up, I don't have a problem with what pros or casters say, nor do I practice any "hate" speech, country bashing, etc. It's not my place to judge, and life is too short to take everything so seriously. I have been made fun of before for being a Christian. It's life and it happens
I share that view. None of the pros I talked about had racist ideas in their heads, they're just using words.
My point is that if 2 people are shot down for having said X or Y, why have all the others who share the same crime not share the same fate?
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I swear, the world will be a better place the day we can all call each other idiots and laugh about it.
celebrities are people too, let them act the way we all act.
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On May 15 2012 03:01 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 02:58 mastergriggy wrote:It's the funniest thing about people who make the argument that stuff like this is offensive, they never take the time to consider that this literally applies to everything, not just what the people they don't like say. Anyway I'll comment what I always comment when this comes up, I don't have a problem with what pros or casters say, nor do I practice any "hate" speech, country bashing, etc. It's not my place to judge, and life is too short to take everything so seriously. I have been made fun of before for being a Christian. It's life and it happens I share that view. None of the pros I talked about had racist ideas in their heads, they're just using words. My point is that if 2 people are shot down for having said X or Y, why have all the others who share the same crime not share the same fate?
Yeah I never got that either. It seems like we still haven't gotten to a good equalizing point. We're still at the "If we don't like you, it's not okay to say it," which is pretty messed up.
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On May 15 2012 02:56 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 02:40 CyDe wrote:
I don't really know where I stand on this issue, but I just want to say that if you really believe "retard" is more offensive than nigger or faggot, you are gravely misinformed. Retard can be used in a scientific manner, neither nigger nor faggot can. They are words used for the express purpose of hurting people, and specifically black or gay people. Retard designates a handicapped person. When you insult someone with the word retard, you're implying that that person is stupid. Which then implies that the handicapped person is stupid. Do you think that a term used to designate autistic people should be used as an insult? It insults the handicapped person just as much as the person you're insulting, unfortunately. It's just as offensive as using a word that has been used to designate a gay person. Retard can be used in science, nigger can be used between two black people to designate each other in a friendly way. Which leads me to point out that words are merely tools to express ideas. People should pay attention to the ideas behind the words, not the words themselves. But if the words themselves are the problem as the witch hunters so clearly stated, then by logic, you can't call anyone a faggot, retard or make holocaust jokes. Nor should there be a thread open to discuss whether or not black people are dumber than the rest of humanity. Because that is true racism, not a few misspoken words in a video game chat.
Never did I say that retard is not offensive, but saying it is more offensive than nigger or faggot is very unfair.
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On May 15 2012 02:56 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 02:40 CyDe wrote:
I don't really know where I stand on this issue, but I just want to say that if you really believe "retard" is more offensive than nigger or faggot, you are gravely misinformed. Retard can be used in a scientific manner, neither nigger nor faggot can. They are words used for the express purpose of hurting people, and specifically black or gay people. Retard designates a handicapped person. When you insult someone with the word retard, you're implying that that person is stupid. Which then implies that the handicapped person is stupid.
Heaven forbid someone imply retards are stupid.
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You got to draw a line between joke, serious and force of habit.
HasuObs, Stephano thing = Joke
Destiny = Force of habit + a bit of serious
Jinro = Force of habit
That's how I see it, here in my country people say retard ALL THE TIME, it has literally lost its hate word meaning, so when I say it I don't feel bad even because it has a meaning besides someone who is mentally retarded, you can use to define something in a figurative way. But if for some reason I vent and end up using faggot I feel bad after, faggot("viado" in brazilian portuguese) is used here by people who beat gay people to death. I can't compare the two in equal weights.
I'm not 100% sure of what side I'm on, I love Destiny's stream and and I miss it but I always changed tabs when Steven used hate words(but I'm definitely in the don't email sponsors side..). This discussion is complicated, but what I feel the most is that ALL people NEED to stop to use ALL these words for good, there are a lot of offensive words that don't imply hating stuff without a reason(I'm not sure if calling something"retard" implies hating retards, does it? Calling someone a "viado" does). They are not constructive words, because you lose your point of trying to be offensive/angry and instead you get your point across as an ass.
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The hypocrisy in the responses are equally frightening. People have got to realize that we are being incredibly bias. I agree that what is going on is just mob mentality for the internet white knights. Don't really have much more to add to what you said, but I hope more people read this.
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I agree with this:
On May 15 2012 03:55 Alpino wrote:
That's how I see it, here in my country people say retard ALL THE TIME, it has literally lost its hate word meaning, so when I say it I don't feel bad even because it has a meaning besides someone who is mentally retarded, you can use to define something in a figurative way. But if for some reason I vent and end up using faggot I feel bad after, faggot("viado" in brazilian portuguese) is used here by people who beat gay people to death. I can't compare the two in equal weights.
and also want to add that "retard" is an insult used by 9-year olds. That probably has a lot to do with why it's not taken as seriously.
The way I see it, those people's intent were to use the most insulting term they could come up with to insult their opponent. And they chose terms that were historically used to describe certain races or sexual orientations. They're implying that being part of those groups is the worst thing they can think of (whether or not that was their intent). And that's why it's so offensive.
People say Destiny should be judged by his actions rather than words, and use that as a reason why he shouldn't be considered a racist, but if anything, Destiny acts like a racist while saying he's not. It's fuzzy because both cases are about his words.
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I agree with you on a lot of points, 5/5
Edit : you could also have used Dragon ( and katu ) as an exemple, Dragon is a known streamcheater but he's got the angry mob of the internet with him so nobody can bitch about that without getting into serious trouble. Pathetic.
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Destiny has a lot of haters, so those people who contacted sponsors and stuff probably didn't even give a shit about his language or the way he acts, they just wanted to see him go down.
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On May 17 2012 01:16 Megaliskuu wrote:
Destiny has a lot of haters, so those people who contacted sponsors and stuff probably didn't even give a shit about his language or the way he acts, they just wanted to see him go down.
How do you, and others who've posted the same thing, know that this is true? Several people have already spoken up that they wrote to sponsors due to the morally objectionable language, and not because they hate Destiny. You did say "probably", but it's a pretty heavy generalization.
Also, how are people so sure that writing to sponsors about fan concerns will cause the sponsors to pull out of eSports? Is there some hint from them that they want to do this? It really looks like this is just FUD to scare people into silence right now. I do see a benefit to the complaints, though: sponsors know there's people in this market, and it's shown that these people know who sponsors who, so they're getting some exposure for sure.
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EPT
