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This won't be well worded, but please bear with me, because I really don't like how our community is so immature about everything. We're not a community with a maximum age cap. Playing Starcraft 2 requires you to be at least: 15 years old in the UK, 13 years old in America, 16 years old in most European countries, 18 years old in Korea (for the 'uncensored version), and it has a 'Mature Audiences Only' rating in Australia. So if anything, there is a minimum age cap.
The minimum age cap, from my perspective, is there to prevent people UNDER a certain age or maturity from being exposed to whatever the game entails.
I understand that the community's problem with professional players being bad mannered is that it sets a bad example, but seriously-- these are words. Are words really that offensive? I agree that we should be expecting professionalism from our top players, however who do you think is overreacting? The professional player, who had a moment of weakness because he/she lost to something terrible, or the other guy, who made a huge deal out of something that I daresay didn't do anything other than break his little heart because he was told off?
In every form of competition, players will have these moments.
No one is a perfect role model.
I'm having a really hard time not going full aussie here and swearing in every sentence because I think this is ridiculous. I am dumbfounded that the community expects players to be well composed all the time.
I feel like this hypersensitivity is making our community weaker and weaker. We are trying fit all our professional players in one pod, and it will not work.
There are certain players in the community that are excused from acting out of line all the time, and then there are others that will do one thing and everyone wants them kicked from the next ten seasons.
Community, I want you to think about this long and hard... Because Starcraft may end up being huge, or it may die off in a few years, I don't know about the future... but I do know about the present, and what we are doing is condoning more of this bullshit that professional players/gamers aren't human. We're not forgiving these players for just being themselves... for having a personality that doesn't fit in with the idea of rose-tinted windows and cotton candy.
There is a quote that goes with what I'm thinking, and it is "To err is human, to forgive is divine" (something along those lines).
Maybe everyone will forget about Starcraft in about 50 years... Maybe, once our generation dies, there will be no more Starcraft gaming... but you can't deny that there WILL be some form of professional gaming in the future, and being a bunch of hypersensitive grandmas isn't helping.
 
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Community, I want you to think about this long and hard... Because Starcraft may end up being huge, or it may die off in a few years, I don't know about the future... but I do know about the present, and what we are doing is condoning more of this bullshit that professional players/gamers aren't human. We're not forgiving these players for just being themselves... for having a personality that doesn't fit in with the idea of rose-tinted windows and cotton candy.
You don't have to worry about the community dying at these stage of growth . Sponsors are still pulling in the big prizes and new teams are being created everyday for sc2 . Maybe because of the situation that happen to destiny prompted you to put out this blog but I can safely assured that the scene ain't going anywhere for now. I don't think any one can predict how much profits in a business you will get just by dumping in big money and pray it works same applies to current scene happening right now.
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Simplfying to matter of curse words does a disservice to the whole issue. Nobody really has a problem with curse word it was use of racial slures that have much more meaning indviduals.
If i were to say that was fucking stupid, im a fucking an idiot, or your a fucking idiot people might get a little angry but its diffrent than insulting people over something they have no control over "race" or even something they should be proud of.
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yea im sick of it too... really getting over sc2 and it's lame community... used to love this game but it's making the decision to quit easier and easier.
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Who is the immature one? Someone who thinks it's mature to be swearing? Someone who thinks racism is something that occasionally slips through a mature adult's speech? Good lord. Grow up you silly boy.
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On May 04 2012 23:01 iamperfection wrote:
Simplfying to matter of curse words does a disservice to the whole issue. Nobody really has a problem with curse word it was use of racial slures that have much more meaning indviduals.
If i were to say that was fucking stupid, im a fucking an idiot, or your a fucking idiot people might get a little angry but its diffrent than insulting people over something they have no control over "race" or even something they should be proud of.
But who does that? No one. Orb said "dumb nigger" to someone who isn't black. Destiny said gook, but I mean... if wardenSC is even an asian, did Destiny even know that? I really don't think Destiny was thinking "Oh, I'll go for his weak point, his race!!!"
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I don't want to label this as "destiny's situation", because it is more than that. It is the community's situation. However, I won't deny that this blog is responding to recent events.
There are some people who don't have control over their intelligence either. What about the mentally retarded? What if a player, diagnosed with a mental condition was called a fucking idiot, and he blew that up, and another huge issue came.
I agree that in the traditional sense, insulting someone's race is a big deal. However, our community already makes snide remarks about the European server. I can't count the amount of times I've heard people insult a certain european professional gamer because he plays mainly on the European server. That isn't a direct insult to his race, but it is definitely an indirect insult to where he is from. It seems no one wants to think about the players themselves, and rather about their actions.
We also have this huge distinction between "Korean players" and "Western players". If racism is such a big issue, there shouldn't be this distinction. Even casters will make a huge deal over a tournament if no Korean players make it to the semifinals.
It is just so ignorant of our community to both condone and condemn the same thing.
Jinsho, my point with situations where professional players act out of line is that there needs to be some sort of leeway... because I really doubt that raging after losing to something stupid is meant to carry malice. We're all human.
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On May 04 2012 23:13 [TA]eccentric wrote:
I don't want to label this as "destiny's situation", because it is more than that. It is the community's situation. However, I won't deny that this blog is responding to recent events.
There are some people who don't have control over their intelligence either. What about the mentally retarded? What if a player, diagnosed with a mental condition was called a fucking idiot, and he blew that up, and another huge issue came.
I agree that in the traditional sense, insulting someone's race is a big deal. However, our community already makes snide remarks about the European server. I can't count the amount of times I've heard people insult a certain european professional gamer because he plays mainly on the European server. That isn't a direct insult to his race, but it is definitely an indirect insult to where he is from. It seems no one wants to think about the players themselves, and rather about their actions.
We also have this huge distinction between "Korean players" and "Western players". If racism is such a big issue, there shouldn't be this distinction. Even casters will make a huge deal over a tournament if no Korean players make it to the semifinals.
It is just so ignorant of our community to both condone and condemn the same thing.
Jinsho, my point with situations where professional players act out of line is that there needs to be some sort of leeway... because I really doubt that raging after losing to something stupid is meant to carry malice. We're all human.
Can you explain about that european professional gamer? I have never heard anything about any of that, and it sounds completely bonkers since Europe is the second strongest server, right after Korea...
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it's the internet.
I understand that the community's problem with professional players being bad mannered is that it sets a bad example, but seriously-- these are words. Are words really that offensive?
they're only fighting back with words too, so if it makes you lash back out at them then i guess they are offensive.
inception.
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if we want esports to grow, we can't just let people use whatever words they want. I don't see how mainstream society can view progaming seriously if people can get away with racism.
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I have no reason to believe that Destiny is actually racist. But while the intent of racist language is important, it needs to be understood that just the mere use of the language is offensive. A word is not simply an empty assembly of letters. People use strong language because it has a strong effect. If Destiny really thought the word wasn't offensive, he wouldn't have used it in the first place.
I'm a white male. It can be difficult for white males to understand how minorities can become offended by racially charged language. We don't fear anything. I don't personally care if someone calls me a 'cracker' because my race has never been under any real threat by another majority race. Developing this understanding is called 'empathy'.
Destiny agreed to become a public figure when he signed up to have a sponsor. Public figures who get paid to represent an agency (athletes, executives, politicians) must know that they are under scrutiny. His sponsor was a company that was in business to make money. Their bottom line is hurt when they perceive that some of their customers are offended by someone they're associated with.
Destiny is obviously free to use the language that he does. He's free to continue to play the game of Starcraft and make money from his viewers just as he was before. There is no 'threat' to Starcraft 2 pros or Starcraft 2 in general. Sheth doesn't have issues, Axslav doesn't have issues, Stephano, Huk, etc the list goes on.
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If you don't like something, don't watch it. It's up to Destiny and other famous players to decide how they will behave, not the community. It's also up to Razor and other potential sponsors to decide who they will give their money to. In Destiny's case (based on the post about Destiny splitting ties with Quantic) Razor decided they would screen out anyone who swears and acts immature. It's their prerogative.
Whether Destiny's behaviour is right or wrong is none of my concern. What I care about is my entertainment; Destiny was more entertaining when he was well-spoken and intelligent minus the swearing and raging. I'm referring to the few times last year when he was a guest speaker on SOTG. His stream got old after a couple viewings and I haven't watched it since 2010. However I can see how it can be entertaining to younger individuals. Personally, I could care less whether this game penetrates into a mainstream sport, but in order for it to do so, it would need to be attractive to a demographic with money to spend and not just the 16 year old kids.
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Because ESPORTS is a serious multibillion dollar industry and people like Destiny ruin our image.
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On May 04 2012 23:08 Tobberoth wrote:
But who does that? No one. Orb said "dumb nigger" to someone who isn't black. Destiny said gook, but I mean... if wardenSC is even an asian, did Destiny even know that? I really don't think Destiny was thinking "Oh, I'll go for his weak point, his race!!!"
How does whether the person who got slurs thrown at them are a member of the targeted group matter? Before arguing anything else, consider that both Orb and Destiny has made these types of comments several times on stream (although not in this specific example for Destiny), so there could easily be someone in these groups watching who would hardly appreciate the slur.
Anyway, there are only two reasons you'd use a slur (particularly in the way they were used in these examples); by accident, without considering its impact, or specifically because they carry more weight than regular curse words. Both Orb and Destiny used slurs multiple times, and while I have some sympathy for Orb since he only used them when raging in his stream and didn't try to defend himself once outside the heat of the moment, Destiny has been very clear that he's not using them by accident at all.
Now, Destiny defends himself by saying that these slurs are acceptable because they have been, to some extent, co-opted by people (especially those on the net) to be generic curse-words, and so anyone complaining are overreacting or whatever. However this is a frankly pretty ridiculous notion. I have been assured by people with far more knowledge than I of linguistics that this is not, in fact, how things work, and that this position doesn't hold water, and you'll have to excuse me if I'll believe them over Destiny. Beyond that, as someone who studies sociology and is interested in minority issues and such, I DO know that it is absolutely not Destiny's place, not in his power, to decide if and how people react to what he says. If he wants to continue using slurs then yes, that is his right, although frankly I do not understand why he does want to - surely the people, however limited the number, who are genuinely hurt by his use of slurs should be more important than trolling or imagining yourself as some paragon of free speech? Because he is not (unless the United States government somehow got involved while I wasn't looking). He of course has every right to continue using the words he does, just as anyone else in the community has the right to distance themselves from him, and Quantic/Complexity/whoever has a right to distance themselves from him. As for the outcry against people complaining to Quantic/Razer, that is nothing more or less than an equal exercise in free speech, and from the perspective of those companies, I'd imagine they'd prefer to get 100 mails complaining about Destiny, giving them the choice between keeping him/his fans and the mailers, rather than randomly losing 100 customers/stream-viewers without any clue why or how. I certainly have no interest in supporting the continued use of slurs, and if the Starcraft scene reaches a point where behavior like Destiny's is tolerated among teams and sponsors, then I'll bow out and find something else to occupy my time.
Now beyond that, what was mentioned above is also a good point. You don't have to be racist to use racist slurs, sexist to make an untimely 'in the kitchen' joke or whatever. But even if you yourself aren't racist, doesn't mean that any statement you make is automatically also non-racist. At best, Destiny cares more about being able to say whatever he wants than whether or not he actually hurts someone, and that's still not someone I will support. The fact that terms like racist and sexist are so divisive and volatile as to be almost pointless these days, given they tend to conjure images of the most extreme actions that would fall under such headers (KKK lynching people for example) and leading people to think 'well, I don't want to actually kill/enslave anyone, so I can't be a racist, guess the complainers are just oversensitive crybabies' doesn't help the discourse.
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Well, personally, I don't understand how words can be offensive?
I've been called so many things by people from various races (example: spermface, cracker ym.) and I just don't find that offensive. Not at all.
If you care what some random person calls you in the internet, you are way too young to be there in the first place.
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On May 04 2012 23:55 craz3d wrote:
If you don't like something, don't watch it. It's up to Destiny and other famous players to decide how they will behave, not the community. It's also up to Razor and other potential sponsors to decide who they will give their money to. In Destiny's case (based on the post about Destiny splitting ties with Quantic) Razor decided they would screen out anyone who swears and acts immature. It's their prerogative.
Whether Destiny's behaviour is right or wrong is none of my concern. What I care about is my entertainment; Destiny was more entertaining when he was well-spoken and intelligent minus the swearing and raging. I'm referring to the few times last year when he was a guest speaker on SOTG. His stream got old after a couple viewings and I haven't watched it since 2010. However I can see how it can be entertaining to younger individuals. Personally, I could care less whether this game penetrates into a mainstream sport, but in order for it to do so, it would need to be attractive to a demographic with money to spend and not just the 16 year old kids.
In the case of Warden, the Asian person who was the target of the slur, he wasn't watching Destiny's stream. He was playing him in a game. Warden doesn't stream anymore, but if was, his viewers would have seen it. So it's not as simple as "don't like it, don't watch it."
Public figures who are sponsored by an agency of some kind (be it Destiny or Bobby Petrino) are representatives of that agency. Their behavior is associated with that agency. It is within someone's right to inform an agency that the person they sponsor has offended them. As Razer is in business to make money, they don't want to be associated with racist slurs that might offend their customer base.
Destiny doesn't die as a result of this event. He is still very much alive and available to entertain you in all the same ways as before. This community intervention has not hurt the game in any way.
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On May 04 2012 22:41 [TA]eccentric wrote:The professional player, who had a moment of weakness because he/she lost to something terrible, or the other guy, who made a huge deal out of something that I daresay didn't do anything other than break his little heart because he was told off?
"Moment of weakness"? I don't think you've been paying attention to any of this. Was the Orb thing taken a little too far? Maybe, maybe not, but it's too late now. As far as Destiny, everyone knows Destiny is kind of BM, but we call it "having a personality" and it makes his stream entertaining for those who are into that. But if a large number of people call you out on what they feel is unacceptable for a public figure, and you respond by posting the "look at all the fucks I don't give" jpeg on twitter, you're not just a dude who said a few words he probably shouldn't have, you're a dude who goes out of his way to be an insensitive asshole. That's not a moment of weakness, that's being flippant about an issue normal adults take seriously.
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Casters and gamers all trying to get on a professional level...should act professional. Prominent business men in the US don't hide their vices just because they want to...they know it detracts from their professional image and, if found out, could lead to their ruin or a huge setback.
I can understand people that believe sc2 is just a game to be bm. But people who believe sc2 is a job, who want it to be a job, should act as if it were. And, in most jobs that I'm aware of, being uncivilized is grounds for some sort of punishment.
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I agree with you, this community is ridiculous. "esports" is killing esports.
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On May 04 2012 23:07 Jinsho wrote:
Who is the immature one? Someone who thinks it's mature to be swearing? Someone who thinks racism is something that occasionally slips through a mature adult's speech? Good lord. Grow up you silly boy. ^
It's just words, right?
Why don't you show to work tomorrow and yell "motherfucking nigger faggot" at your boss when he asks something of you you don't like, okay?
There is a difference between swearing and yelling racist or homophobic slurs.
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EPT
