|
My brand new DAS keyboard just arrived!! It's quite the upgrade over my out of the box dell keyboard I've been using the last couple of years.
Edit: At first I thought it was the absence of the hand rest, but after comparing the two keyboards side by side, I noticed that the surface of the keys is ~.25 inches higher than my old keyboard (yes I measured). Bottom line is that I'm not sure what is causing the fatigue. I just know it sucks.
Has anyone else experienced something like this when switching to a new keyboard? How did you deal with it, and how long did it take before the "fatigue" went away?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DqO6c.jpg)
The red arrows and blue circles highlight the parts of my arm that are experiencing the fatigue.
I'm starting to consider sending this keyboard back for a refund. If I can't play longer than 1 or 2 games without this discomfort then its just not worth it. I'm hopeful someone here has had a similar experience and will tell me it will go away soon.
Thanks so much <3
 
|
I have no experience with that situation specifically, but what you're saying basically is:
"I have been in a certain posture for years, now I changed it and now I fit feels as if I'm not used to it."
As long as you feel that it's your MUSCLES who are fatigued there is no problem at all because it's a matter of your body getting used to the new posture. Although some general fitness could probably help you there. =P
I'd say give it 2-3 weeks total,don't force 10h sessions and then re-evaluate.
|
Keep playing and train those muscles.
|
T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
|
I doubt your forearms look like the ones pictured or we wouldn't be having this talk 
Get a handrest, it will help.
|
On March 17 2012 08:04 Risen wrote:I doubt your forearms look like the ones pictured or we wouldn't be having this talk Get a handrest, it will help.
No, I'm not a fitness buff. Haven't worked out except for the occasional jog since I got out of the military 3 years ago. I didn't think my fitness level or lack there of would be manifested in a new keyboard lol ; ;
|
If anything you'd have beast forearm muscles. Lol <3
|
Well 9 times out of 10, your old keyboard was a membrane keyboard and membrane keyboards require alot less force than any mech keyboard I can think of. Its just part of getting use to something like that. If you spammed alot in sc2, your hands will become very tired very quickly unless you slow down.
1 good thing about slowing down though is that your actions become more precise so once you get used to playing on that keyboard, your actions will not only be as fast or faster as playing on your old keyboard, you will also be alot more precise and spend your apm more wisely.
|
On March 17 2012 10:59 AeroEffect wrote:
Well 9 times out of 10, your old keyboard was a membrane keyboard and membrane keyboards require alot less force than any mech keyboard I can think of. Its just part of getting use to something like that. If you spammed alot in sc2, your hands will become very tired very quickly unless you slow down.
1 good thing about slowing down though is that your actions become more precise so once you get used to playing on that keyboard, your actions will not only be as fast or faster as playing on your old keyboard, you will also be alot more precise and spend your apm more wisely.
Yeah, the old keyboard wasn't mechanical. I've never spammed APM though (at least by the understood meaning of spam). My APM has always started out ~60-70 and peaks at an embarrassing ~130 in the mid/late game.
|
Joedaddy: i've been experiencing (what I think is) the *exact* same issue with my new keyboard. I used to play on a laptop, and because the laptop's surface was on the same level as the top of the keys---- so I was able to rest the base of my hand on the laptop near the touchpad and play/type happily with no fatigue or pain.
First off: this will ONLY WORK if your chair is at the correct height and other ergonomic settings are appropriate. Make sure your arms are bent at a 90 degree angle. Sit on a book if you have to and don't have cash for a better chair. (I am >.<)
Watch this: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-252-secrets-of-hotkeys-apm-and-mouse-movement-4730506
Read this. It is probably the single most important thread on TL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=134466
And now:
Switched to new keyboard, and the tops of the keys are a full INCH to 1 1/4 inches above where my hand has been sitting(the table) and within a few days of switching I've been experiencing extreme fatigue and pain in my left wrist. Last night I couldn't even rest my hand at the keyboard without wincing. This, I think, is for 2 reasons:
1. Obviously, because of the new upward retarded angle my wrists had to sit at to reach the keys.
2. Desk keyboards have this little curvy thing at the bottom that *looks* nice, but stops me from putting the base of my fucking hand on them. This, I think, sort of 'multiplies' the effect of the upward reaching distance because not only is my wrist at a stupid angle, I also have to STRETCH every time I want to hit even 6 or 7, and God forbid I should ever have to hit an F key.
So, within the last hour, I macgyvered a solution. I cut up 2 old slightly oversized mousepads (they were about 9x9") into quarters. I ended up needing 5 of the 8 quarters. I stacked these, pushing each one on top slightly forward to match the curvature of the retard-bar to make a solid surface all the way up to my spacebar, ctrl and alt keys. I stapled them together (glue would maybe be better, but I'm lazy- plus because I only stapled opposite corners, it bounces a bit like a spring!) to make sure they retained their shape, and voila:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YBczg.jpg)
I don't KNOW if this will help, but it *feels* immensely, unbelievably better, cost me literally nothing, and, I suspect, is probably ergonomically much better than a traditional wrist rest, which, as others have mentioned, can actually crush the carpal tunnel. On this simple pad it is impossible for me to rest anything other than the base of my hand, which is exactly (from what I'm told) the most ergonomic way to go about things.
It's soft and comfy too! :D
You see underneath the keyboard I've also got my brand new extended Razer Goliathus. I got the speed version because it lowers the amount of force required to move the mouse versus a 'control' pad, and therefore, I imagine, reduces wrist strain there as well. It holds the keyboard and the base-of-hand rest in place very nicely, and I would very much recommend it, but you may be able to use sticky tac or something!
I've also temporarily stuck the remaining 3 quarters together and am resting the base of my mouse hand on those as well. It wasn't hurting as badly, but ergonomically I think this is a good idea, because again it reduces the negative angle at which I need to hold my wrist. I'm not sure how it would work if you had anything other than a fingertip grip, though.
If you like, I'll PM you in a week or two and let you know how it's been working.
|
Sick response. Thanks so much for taking the time to make such a post <3
Friday will be 1 week with my new keyboard. I haven't gotten a wrist pad... yet. I've cut down on the number of games I play in succession, but I'm noticing a general upward trend in the amount of time I am able to play before fatigue starts setting in. I'm hopeful that over time I'll be able to play for an extended amount of time like I did with the old keyboard.
I am curious to see how the ergonomic layout you've "engineered" works out for you. So, please update me ^^ I have wondered quite a bit how my own set up affects me as far as fatigue and also my accuracy with my peripherals. The computer desk I use has a roll out "shelf" where the keyboard and mouse are supposed to go, but I found the rolling shelf itself to be problematic. As a result, my keyboard and mouse sit on top of the desk right in front of my monitor which means my arm is always at an upward angle. The next live event I go to I am going to pay extra attention to the setups of other players to see where their arms and wrists rest lol.
Anywho, thanks again for the reply!!
|
I switched from a macbook pro laptop keyboard to the Das Pro keyboard. For 5 days I had awful mechanics because I was getting used to the layout, and for 2 weeks I found that my hand muscles were sore since the keyboard was much bigger. I also had some fatigue in the areas you highlighted in the OP.
The user "Odds", above, linked you to a Day9 daily about keyboard positioning. Once I had arranged my keyboard to be as he suggested, the fagitue in my arms went away. Now it's mostly fatigue on the muscles in my hand for reaching like, ctrl+6 and stuff.
I say stick with the keyboard, and try different chair heights and stuff to see how it affects your muscles. And always stretch before and between games, but not too hard. :D
|
Update: I played for much of today using the new wrist rests and felt little to no pain or fatigue. A minute ago I tried to put my hand on they keyboard as I was playing yesterday and yep, excruciating pain.
I think ghettorests are legit.
|
Of course that works. You're basically ignoring that - as with ANY thing that has to do with muscles - that you need time to adjust to new tasks and instead change the environmental condition so that no adaption is required.
It's kinda equivalent to instantly starting to run with a freshly bought shoe, get pain because you're not used to it and then going back to your old shoes because they feel more comfortable.
The REAL problem however is that some of the muscles in your arm are over- and some underdeveloped. Adaption and actual physical exercise would fix this longterm in a much healthier fashion.
|
Mentioned this before, but mech keyboards are too tall. The way you use them is with a handrest if over the desk, or in a tray under the desk(touchtype) with your hands suspended in the air over the keyboard, not touching anything but the keys with the fingertips. Scissor switch is way better than any mechanical imo, TL suffers from a mass hysteria about keyboards.
It is important that you do not bend your wrists upwards. I did notice a few Korean progamers and their hand positions, and some look bad, I don't know how they survive, but most seem to make it work well. The thing is you can be able to avoid bending upwards by putting the keyboard close to the edge of the table and using a low chair position so your elbow is positioned below the level of the table.
|
On March 22 2012 18:19 r.Evo wrote:
Of course that works. You're basically ignoring that - as with ANY thing that has to do with muscles - that you need time to adjust to new tasks and instead change the environmental condition so that no adaption is required.
It's kinda equivalent to instantly starting to run with a freshly bought shoe, get pain because you're not used to it and then going back to your old shoes because they feel more comfortable.
The REAL problem however is that some of the muscles in your arm are over- and some underdeveloped. Adaption and actual physical exercise would fix this longterm in a much healthier fashion.
So endless pain and tightness and potentially permanently damaged wrists is the healthier way to go about it?
Go look up what happened to Flash. There's a reason that every single ergonomics guide out there insists that you keep straight wrists- negative angles destroy them if you aren't very lucky with your biology.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
