So about 3 weeks ago I bought a Razer Deathadder for myself after being unsatisfied with the logitech G500 (had it for about a year). I had the G5 before that and really liked it, but when it broke my friends convinced me that the G500 was the best upgrade so I just bought it without doing any research (I was a pretty casual gamer then).
My hands are pretty large and one of the nice things about the G5 was that my ring finger sat comfortably on the top edge of the mouse, with the pinky in the "groove" on the side. The base of the mouse fit perfectly in my palm and my index/middle fingers would claw the buttons for a "hybrid" grip. For some reason the G500 just doesn't have the same feel, like it's bulkier in general, and didn't provide the precision I wanted in RTS games. Kind of like my hand was always "sliding" off the right side of the mouse and the bottom of the mouse was escaping from my palm during micro-battles.
So in any case, when I first got the Deathadder I was very impressed with the mouse. I like how it is lighter than the G500, and I vastly prefer the tracking (it's got an optical sensor whereas the G500 is laser) which seems in general more zippy and precise. However, after only a couple of days I started to notice some pains in my right wrist/fingers that I NEVER got before. At first I thought it was just sore muscles (it might still be that) except this has lasted for about 3 weeks and I feel the pain almost immediately after gripping my hand around the mouse (even if I'm just web browsing).
Ironically, playing SC2 is the only computer activity that doesn't cause pain in my right hand but I think that is due to the adrenaline numbing some of the hurting. Also I do NOT have the symptoms of carpal tunnel or most other RSI, instead it feels more like my entire fingers/wrist is sore and I have the urge to do wrist stretches all day to get some relief.
Here are some pictures for your pleasure:
First, a very intricate diagram of where I am feeling pains (red = intense/frequent pain, orange = not as intense/frequent)
And this is how I grip the mouse:
I've tried gripping the mouse in a few different ways as well (ring finger and middle finger sharing the right mouse button, a more traditional claw grip, etc) but these grips usually just cause even more strain in my hand.
Since it's almost been a month since I've switched my mouse, I need to make a decision soon about whether or not to return it to the store (they have a 1 month return policy) or if I should just go to the doctor/change my grip and stick with the mouse for longer.
And of course, this raises the question of what mouse I should try next. The main qualities I'm looking for are: not too expensive, at least 1800 dpi, preferably optical (I got the impression from using the g500 and razer imperator that they are more responsive than laser mice, but I could be wrong), and ideally with mouse buttons 4/5 on the left side. I'm thinking the Logitech G400 might not be a bad choice, since it's design is more similar to the G5 than the G500, it's optical, and it's also quite cheap. The Ttesports Saphira (designed by Whitera) also looks promising, but who the hell knows when that will become available in the US.
Any tips will be appreciated! And thanks for reading
get used to it after a gaming session if im hardcore i usually have pain in my wrist,fingers and shoulders/forearms of course i am a broodwar player so as far as your concern you wont have that problem to the extremes. Now if it is the mouse , just change the fucking mouse not a big deal. If it is caused by the fact your faster then you used to be well what can I say besides deal with it like every other person that gets that same pain.Now if they are to the extreme pain list which i am talking extreme as in flash pain level, i would suggest you have a doctor look at that.However from what you have been saying it is not such a big deal which means the pain is normal, when you first go from like 40 apm to around 100 your wrist/fingers are getting accustomed to the new speed so yeah.
On February 16 2012 12:52 decker247777 wrote: get used to it after a gaming session if im hardcore i usually have pain in my wrist,fingers and shoulders/forearms of course i am a broodwar player so as far as your concern you wont have that problem to the extremes. Now if it is the mouse , just change the fucking mouse not a big deal. If it is caused by the fact your faster then you used to be well what can I say besides deal with it like every other person that gets that same pain.Now if they are to the extreme pain list which i am talking extreme as in flash pain level, i would suggest you have a doctor look at that.However from what you have been saying it is not such a big deal which means the pain is normal, when you first go from like 40 apm to around 100 your wrist/fingers are getting accustomed to the new speed so yeah.
Well your point about getting more strain as I get faster is definitely a valid one, I've been playing sc2 at 200+ apm for the last few months (maybe was in the 140-160 range before that) so it's possible that I've just been causing more strain on my hand in general. What I find suspicious is that the pain is lingering even when I'm not playing, like this week I have not really had much time to play at all but I still feel the pain while doing other computer related work, and that I only started having problems just a couple days after buying a new mouse. I guess what I want to figure out is whether or not this "ergonomic mouse" is simply not good for my hand shape/grip style, or if i have some unrelated muscle pain that could perhaps be a sign of RSI.
And honestly, isn't waiting until I have extreme flash pains a bit late to see a doctor, considering RSI can lead to permanent nerve damage?
On February 16 2012 12:52 decker247777 wrote: get used to it after a gaming session if im hardcore i usually have pain in my wrist,fingers and shoulders/forearms of course i am a broodwar player so as far as your concern you wont have that problem to the extremes. Now if it is the mouse , just change the fucking mouse not a big deal. If it is caused by the fact your faster then you used to be well what can I say besides deal with it like every other person that gets that same pain.Now if they are to the extreme pain list which i am talking extreme as in flash pain level, i would suggest you have a doctor look at that.However from what you have been saying it is not such a big deal which means the pain is normal, when you first go from like 40 apm to around 100 your wrist/fingers are getting accustomed to the new speed so yeah.
Well your point about getting more strain as I get faster is definitely a valid one, I've been playing sc2 at 200+ apm for the last few months (maybe was in the 140-160 range before that) so it's possible that I've just been causing more strain on my hand in general. What I find suspicious is that the pain is lingering even when I'm not playing, like this week I have not really had much time to play at all but I still feel the pain while doing other computer related work, and that I only started having problems just a couple days after buying a new mouse. I guess what I want to figure out is whether or not this "ergonomic mouse" is simply not good for my hand shape/grip style, or if i have some unrelated muscle pain that could perhaps be a sign of RSI.
And honestly, isn't waiting until I have extreme flash pains a bit late to see a doctor, considering RSI can lead to permanent nerve damage?
waiting after you experience flash pain level (what flash did since he is a progamer) could potentially damage your nerves but if you feel it once it shouldn't be a huge huge deal.
looking at your hand, I think you may just need a bigger mouse. I got a Deathadder because I had pain in my hands from using a $20 logitech mouse for gaming and for school work. After getting the Deathadder it went away. My pain was mostly in the middle of my hand. Basically, the previous mouse was small enough that my hand was scrunched up and now it's more spread out. So I'm saying that the issue is the size of your mouse. I have tiny hands and when I got a Deathadder, it seemed so big. Looking at the picture of you holding your mouse, there is barely any room on your mouse for those fingers that are having issues. So you either need a bigger mouse, or you need to go Artosis style and play with your pinky pointed outward (not resting on mouse) to make room for your ring finger.
On February 16 2012 13:20 LittleAtari wrote: looking at your hand, I think you may just need a bigger mouse. I got a Deathadder because I had pain in my hands from using a $20 logitech mouse for gaming and for school work. After getting the Deathadder it went away. My pain was mostly in the middle of my hand. Basically, the previous mouse was small enough that my hand was scrunched up and now it's more spread out. So I'm saying that the issue is the size of your mouse. I have tiny hands and when I got a Deathadder, it seemed so big. Looking at the picture of you holding your mouse, there is barely any room on your mouse for those fingers that are having issues. So you either need a bigger mouse, or you need to go Artosis style and play with your pinky pointed outward (not resting on mouse) to make room for your ring finger.
I think you're probably right. The placement of my ring/pinky fingers does feel very scrunched up around the Deathadder.
When you say "artosis style", is this what you mean? Because I tried that a bit and let me tell you it just puts unnecessary tension in the pinky while your'e holding it up at that angle, I can't understand why anyone would do it. It certainly wouldn't be the only extraordinary thing I've seen Boxer do though.
So about 3 weeks ago I bought a Razer Deathadder for myself after being unsatisfied with the logitech G500 (had it for about a year). I had the G5 before that and really liked it, but when it broke my friends convinced me that the G500 was the best upgrade so I just bought it without doing any research (I was a pretty casual gamer then).
My hands are pretty large and one of the nice things about the G5 was that my ring finger sat comfortably on the top edge of the mouse, with the pinky in the "groove" on the side. The base of the mouse fit perfectly in my palm and my index/middle fingers would claw the buttons for a "hybrid" grip. For some reason the G500 just doesn't have the same feel, like it's bulkier in general, and didn't provide the precision I wanted in RTS games. Kind of like my hand was always "sliding" off the right side of the mouse and the bottom of the mouse was escaping from my palm during micro-battles.
So in any case, when I first got the Deathadder I was very impressed with the mouse. I like how it is lighter than the G500, and I vastly prefer the tracking (it's got an optical sensor whereas the G500 is laser) which seems in general more zippy and precise. However, after only a couple of days I started to notice some pains in my right wrist/fingers that I NEVER got before. At first I thought it was just sore muscles (it might still be that) except this has lasted for about 3 weeks and I feel the pain almost immediately after gripping my hand around the mouse (even if I'm just web browsing).
Ironically, playing SC2 is the only computer activity that doesn't cause pain in my right hand but I think that is due to the adrenaline numbing some of the hurting. Also I do NOT have the symptoms of carpal tunnel or most other RSI, instead it feels more like my entire fingers/wrist is sore and I have the urge to do wrist stretches all day to get some relief.
Here are some pictures for your pleasure:
First, a very intricate diagram of where I am feeling pains (red = intense/frequent pain, orange = not as intense/frequent)
And this is how I grip the mouse:
I've tried gripping the mouse in a few different ways as well (ring finger and middle finger sharing the right mouse button, a more traditional claw grip, etc) but these grips usually just cause even more strain in my hand.
Since it's almost been a month since I've switched my mouse, I need to make a decision soon about whether or not to return it to the store (they have a 1 month return policy) or if I should just go to the doctor/change my grip and stick with the mouse for longer.
And of course, this raises the question of what mouse I should try next. The main qualities I'm looking for are: not too expensive, at least 1800 dpi, preferably optical (I got the impression from using the g500 and razer imperator that they are more responsive than laser mice, but I could be wrong), and ideally with mouse buttons 4/5 on the left side. I'm thinking the Logitech G400 might not be a bad choice, since it's design is more similar to the G5 than the G500, it's optical, and it's also quite cheap. The Ttesports Saphira (designed by Whitera) also looks promising, but who the hell knows when that will become available in the US.
Any tips will be appreciated! And thanks for reading
Based on your description it's most likely from your mouse-- I like the death adder (though I like the lachesis or the abyssus better), but not everyone's hands are suited for every mouse, and it's no use having one that's going to give you pains like that-- the fact that you notice it right after you start gripping it, even for something like browsing says to me that it's getting worse, rather than better, with use, so you might want to look at a different mouse.
I've had recurring pain in my right wrist for several years from Counterstrike, and I don't blame the mouse.
I found the main fault was that my wrist kept cutting into the desk, and that fucked up my hand. Pull the mousepad back a little since you have cloth, and cover the edge of your desk. It helps if that's the main problem.
Next, make sure your arm is relaxed, never tense.
I'm looking at your picture and my normal grip, and I suggest you hold the mouse with the side of the ring and pinky instead of their base. I shouldn't be seeing the side of those fingers, but the top-ish. Hard to describe, but they shouldn't be held with the base fully on the mouse. I feel like this is the main issue.
Check your posture and grip as well of course.
I don't get the pains anymore, so it's probably either I got used to them or something.
The safest option if you keep getting pain is going back to your old mouse and seeing if it's the DeathAdder, and if it is, try another mouse.
--
My hand size is comparable to yours. Move up your thumb. You should be using the ball of your thumb to press back, and lean it slightly forward for forward. It looks like it's too scrunched back, even if you're clawing, which you aren't.
I had the same problem. My previous mouse was a Microsoft Intellimouse with a rather large surface area. After that broke down I got a Steelseries Kinzu which is a lot smaller and I got pretty much the same pain that you have where your ring finger and pinky are under constant strain. Unfortunately I was too stupid/stubborn to return within a month and now I'm stuck with it. Luckily the pain went away after a couple more weeks and nowadays I don't have any problems anymore. Also I use my ring finger for the second mouse button and my middle finger on the mousewheel so there is quite a bit of additional space on the mouse, try that.
I'm looking at your picture and my normal grip, and I suggest you hold the mouse with the side of the ring and pinky instead of their base. I shouldn't be seeing the side of those fingers, but the top-ish. Hard to describe, but they shouldn't be held with the base fully on the mouse. I feel like this is the main issue.
So I tried changing my grip today as you suggested, and I'm actually feeling a lot less pain in those spots during and after playing some games. The way I was gripping it before was causing a lot of tension in the ring/pinky fingers but if I just relax my arm/hand and rest the ring finger on the top right edge and support the side of the mouse with the side of my pinky then it's much more comfortable.
If the soreness doesn't return in the next few days, I think I will be keeping the Deathadder!
No problem. Make sure you're not gripping hard too hard with the pinky. At all times, your hards should be flared outwards on both sides, not pointing inwards. Your entire hand should be extremely natural when holding the DeathAdder. Holding the side with the base of your ring and pinky means you have to stress those fingers slightly. The best thing about the DeathAdder is that its ergonomics is amazing for a mouse without a pinky rest. You should not have to move your hand at all when you're using it. If you hold your hand flat, parallel to the floor, then un-tense it, you should notice that it cups the DeathAdder perfectly.
Light, delicate, but firm is what you should aim for.
I own a DeathAdder 3.5G since last year. I also feel an unusual pain each time I use it. I am not a gamer at all, I am a software developer. I purchased it because I am left handed and that in Taiwan this model is the only one that I could find for me.
I gave up using it after a few days because of the pain. Recently I needed another mouse on a new computer, so I started to use it again .. and the pain came back after a couple of days. I don't experience this pain with other mouses, and my mouse usage is very light. Sometimes, I can feel pain just by having my hand idling on the mouse.
Both lights in the mouses are desactivated. The cause of the pain can't be the heat alone, because it happens whatever the temperature of the room is. I STRONGLY suspect an electromagnetic signal leaking from the mouse to hurt the most electro-sensitive of us. As far as I remember, there is a custom CPU-like component running in the mouse.
If any of you have the proper tools to measure the magnetic fields and their frequencies, please go ahead and check this mouse.
The problem is that you're mixing steelseries and razer products. Get at least a generic, or at best a razer mousepad to eliminate body incompatibility.
FYI my pain went away when i started right clicking with both my middle and ring fingers. I can take some pictures now next week to show exactly how i'm holding it now. And i am using the TL razer goliathus now as well
Karma: your hypothesis sounds kind of nutty... then again i don't know shit about magnets
i registered just to post this. Are u by any chance double jointed in any of ur fingers on your right hand? i ask this because i am, and 2 - 3 weeks after getting my deathadder i felt pains that i had never felt before ever in my whole life of computer gaming.
Just as u said, i could feel the pain by just grasping the mouse it was so horrible i had to return it and i am now using my naga once again which fits my hand perfectly.
Some hands aren't made for the DA man i know it's sort of a late call but don't injure urself chronically over this, get out ASAP, u don't wanna end up typing all of this out with one hand like i'm doing right now....
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QnW7vl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fw99Ul.jpg)
