• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:53
CEST 07:53
KST 14:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League29Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War1265.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0
StarCraft 2
General
SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact Server Blocker Terran AddOns placement How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
[Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Rollback Netcode in Brood War GG Lan Fest Sofia, Bulgaria [this November] [Recap] Hive ZvZ in MonstarZ vs Dreams [ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [ASL22] Grand Finals 2v2v2v2 Tournament Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9368 users

Mirror frustrations.

Blogs > Misanthrope
Post a Reply
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
February 08 2012 04:17 GMT
#1
Does anyone else feel just plain frustrated with mirror matchups?

I recently switched from Z to P after getting 17 ZvZs in a row on ladder. After putting in a few hours on YABOT I ventured back onto ladder, struggled a bit, and leveled out back where I was as Z after about 6 hours or so. Then I got 14 PvPs in a row.

I stopped playing Z because I just can't handle the crazy swings that happen in early ling/bane fights. I both love and hate the fact that one misclick will end the game. I thought that because of the nature of P units, being all around more durable, there would be a greater emphasis on engagement planning and execution over a longer period of time per battle, giving me more chances to win.

Ultimately, I came to realize there are still those one misclick loss moments in PvP, but overall my hypothesis seemed correct. Eventually though I became frustrated as I realized how hard it can be to scout, and that often times it's whoever makes a more correct guess that wins. This is most often me, and I do win the majority of my games, but I still feel really icky. Something tells me over a longer timeline that my guesses would even out.

I really wish I could thumbs down matchups or something like that. I've started just leaving every PvP at the start because it feels just bad to play. I did the same thing with Z after awhile. So I've come to the conclusion that I don't like mirror matchups. I feel like this is a huge sticking point for me, because I want to be better at the game and I do love playing it, but the general 'icky-ness' is such a huge turn off that it makes me want to do something else when I get a few in a row.

I can't make myself like something without changing my perspective on it, so I'm asking if anyone can offer some?

Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
ssi.bal-listic
Profile Joined October 2010
United States568 Posts
February 08 2012 04:21 GMT
#2
Well I can understand mirror matchups can be pain in the ass but it truly makes the balance QQness go away. Player with more skill will generally will (even in cheese, its skill to make up cheese and block cheese).
Or you can try terran since TvT is probably the most dynamic matchup
"It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you" "The strong one doesn't win, the one that wins is strong"
G_G
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada178 Posts
February 08 2012 04:22 GMT
#3
I love all non-mirror match ups, any race vs and other race, but I hate ZvZ and PvP. The simple solution for me was to play Terran since I enjoy TvT the most out of the mirror matchups.
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
February 08 2012 04:26 GMT
#4
Are you in masters? Theres a lot less terran players around our level now.
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
February 08 2012 04:34 GMT
#5
I was low masters Z, currently high diamond P. I actually did see the race distribution per league graph somewhere, and I gave it some consideration. I haven't watched much TvT despite the saturation of tournament content, so I don't really have a clue as to what makes it more dynamic. It seems like the same things that always happen in regards to getting information about T would be present in the matchup. Hard to scout past a wall, and doing so gives up a mule they won't have to if they're doing some kind of all in, and in that case you won't have the income to stop it.

Granted this is all just a guess based on past experience with the race, and is probably only true to a degree. I'd really hate to switch thinking it would be this world of sensible bliss, just to have the final realization that all mirror matchups are just as silly as the other.
Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
Fishgle
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2174 Posts
February 08 2012 04:40 GMT
#6
just go into chat, type PvT or PvZ 1400 ELO Match Point pw catdog

oh wait....

yea mirror matchups kind of suck, but ZvZ is easily my favorite.
aka ChillyGonzalo / GnozL
Selendis
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia509 Posts
February 08 2012 05:01 GMT
#7
Yeah I hate PvP atm. Seems to me that everyone is doing a different build but the one thing they all have in common? They all look exactly like a 4gate (high chrono energy before cyber etc).

I preferred PvP when everyone WAS 4gating, at least I knew how to deal with it.
Probes are sooo OP
peekn
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1152 Posts
February 08 2012 05:46 GMT
#8
Yeah I really hate PvP as well I can never tell what is going on, but I think that is just because I suck at scouting or something like that. All I know is that whatever I do they are doing the thing that beats it...or at least it seems that way. The only mirror match up that doesn't look incredibly painful to play is TvT, but I don't know since I'm not a Terran.

Not sure if mirror match ups will ever get any better, all we can do is wait and see.
Limelights
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States219 Posts
February 08 2012 07:20 GMT
#9
I love playing ZvZ's when I don't get ling all-ined. I try and create chokes with my pool, warren, and queen and tech to Lair after getting a few roaches but it's rarely ever enough. Certain maps have stupid spaces between mineral patches and two banelings can ruin my day.

If I can actually get past the early game ZvZ is a ton of fun. I enjoy playing Roach/Infestor.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
06:30
Best Games of SC
Clem vs SHIN
herO vs SHIN
Serral vs Solar
Clem vs SHIN
Reynor vs TBD
LiquipediaDiscussion
AI Arena Tournament
01:00
Swiss - Round 6
Laughngamez YouTube
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 163
StarCraft: Brood War
BeSt 279
910 71
sOs 61
Bale 19
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm204
League of Legends
JimRising 707
Other Games
gofns10824
summit1g8897
WinterStarcraft653
Livibee186
RuFF_SC2112
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick568
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 41
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2251
League of Legends
• Rush1118
• Lourlo1036
Other Games
• Shiphtur722
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4h 7m
OSC
7h 7m
IPSL
10h 7m
BSL Open Qualifier
13h 7m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 5h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
[ Show More ]
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.