• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:31
CEST 13:31
KST 20:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?131Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!46
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism SC4ALL: II Winner will earn a spot at HSC 30! SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 7/8
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 KSL Week #92 IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly 2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
Practice Partners (Official) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Broodwar Prediction Market Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? [D] Brainstorming a balance patch for Brood war
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group A [ASL22] Ro16 Group B Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Diablo IV [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion!
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7552 users

Mirror frustrations.

Blogs > Misanthrope
Post a Reply
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
February 08 2012 04:17 GMT
#1
Does anyone else feel just plain frustrated with mirror matchups?

I recently switched from Z to P after getting 17 ZvZs in a row on ladder. After putting in a few hours on YABOT I ventured back onto ladder, struggled a bit, and leveled out back where I was as Z after about 6 hours or so. Then I got 14 PvPs in a row.

I stopped playing Z because I just can't handle the crazy swings that happen in early ling/bane fights. I both love and hate the fact that one misclick will end the game. I thought that because of the nature of P units, being all around more durable, there would be a greater emphasis on engagement planning and execution over a longer period of time per battle, giving me more chances to win.

Ultimately, I came to realize there are still those one misclick loss moments in PvP, but overall my hypothesis seemed correct. Eventually though I became frustrated as I realized how hard it can be to scout, and that often times it's whoever makes a more correct guess that wins. This is most often me, and I do win the majority of my games, but I still feel really icky. Something tells me over a longer timeline that my guesses would even out.

I really wish I could thumbs down matchups or something like that. I've started just leaving every PvP at the start because it feels just bad to play. I did the same thing with Z after awhile. So I've come to the conclusion that I don't like mirror matchups. I feel like this is a huge sticking point for me, because I want to be better at the game and I do love playing it, but the general 'icky-ness' is such a huge turn off that it makes me want to do something else when I get a few in a row.

I can't make myself like something without changing my perspective on it, so I'm asking if anyone can offer some?

Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
ssi.bal-listic
Profile Joined October 2010
United States568 Posts
February 08 2012 04:21 GMT
#2
Well I can understand mirror matchups can be pain in the ass but it truly makes the balance QQness go away. Player with more skill will generally will (even in cheese, its skill to make up cheese and block cheese).
Or you can try terran since TvT is probably the most dynamic matchup
"It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you" "The strong one doesn't win, the one that wins is strong"
G_G
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada178 Posts
February 08 2012 04:22 GMT
#3
I love all non-mirror match ups, any race vs and other race, but I hate ZvZ and PvP. The simple solution for me was to play Terran since I enjoy TvT the most out of the mirror matchups.
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
February 08 2012 04:26 GMT
#4
Are you in masters? Theres a lot less terran players around our level now.
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
February 08 2012 04:34 GMT
#5
I was low masters Z, currently high diamond P. I actually did see the race distribution per league graph somewhere, and I gave it some consideration. I haven't watched much TvT despite the saturation of tournament content, so I don't really have a clue as to what makes it more dynamic. It seems like the same things that always happen in regards to getting information about T would be present in the matchup. Hard to scout past a wall, and doing so gives up a mule they won't have to if they're doing some kind of all in, and in that case you won't have the income to stop it.

Granted this is all just a guess based on past experience with the race, and is probably only true to a degree. I'd really hate to switch thinking it would be this world of sensible bliss, just to have the final realization that all mirror matchups are just as silly as the other.
Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
Fishgle
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2174 Posts
February 08 2012 04:40 GMT
#6
just go into chat, type PvT or PvZ 1400 ELO Match Point pw catdog

oh wait....

yea mirror matchups kind of suck, but ZvZ is easily my favorite.
aka ChillyGonzalo / GnozL
Selendis
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia509 Posts
February 08 2012 05:01 GMT
#7
Yeah I hate PvP atm. Seems to me that everyone is doing a different build but the one thing they all have in common? They all look exactly like a 4gate (high chrono energy before cyber etc).

I preferred PvP when everyone WAS 4gating, at least I knew how to deal with it.
Probes are sooo OP
peekn
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1152 Posts
February 08 2012 05:46 GMT
#8
Yeah I really hate PvP as well I can never tell what is going on, but I think that is just because I suck at scouting or something like that. All I know is that whatever I do they are doing the thing that beats it...or at least it seems that way. The only mirror match up that doesn't look incredibly painful to play is TvT, but I don't know since I'm not a Terran.

Not sure if mirror match ups will ever get any better, all we can do is wait and see.
Limelights
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States219 Posts
February 08 2012 07:20 GMT
#9
I love playing ZvZ's when I don't get ling all-ined. I try and create chokes with my pool, warren, and queen and tech to Lair after getting a few roaches but it's rarely ever enough. Certain maps have stupid spaces between mineral patches and two banelings can ruin my day.

If I can actually get past the early game ZvZ is a ton of fun. I enjoy playing Roach/Infestor.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
Pre Blizzcon Cup
Cure vs Zoun
SHIN vs Classic
ByuN vs MaxPax
Percival vs YoungYakov
IntoTheiNu 527
WardiTV467
Rex88
Liquipedia
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Sea Duckling Open #149
CranKy Ducklings125
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko282
Rex 88
BRAT_OK 41
Railgan 28
SHIN 18
MindelVK 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 22626
Calm 8970
Leta 839
Pusan 487
Soma 210
Stork 182
EffOrt 153
Mini 136
Last 128
Barracks 104
[ Show more ]
sorry 92
Rush 79
Killer 73
910 59
Yoon 50
Mong 46
ZerO 43
Free 23
soO 23
Hm[arnc] 21
SilentControl 13
JulyZerg 10
yabsab 9
Noble 9
scan(afreeca) 9
Dota 2
Dendi840
XcaliburYe717
ODPixel414
canceldota108
Other Games
singsing1762
Pyrionflax365
crisheroes317
Hui .161
KnowMe114
ZerO(Twitch)7
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 17
lovetv 8
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix6
• Michael_bg 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1704
Upcoming Events
AI Arena Tournament
5h 29m
OSC
8h 59m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
22h 29m
WardiTV Invitational
23h 29m
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
1d 3h
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
1d 4h
Serral vs Rogue
BlizzCon
1d 6h
IdrA vs MC
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 22h
Light vs JyJ
Soulkey vs hero
WardiTV Weekly
1d 23h
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Snow vs Shinee
Shine vs EffOrt
GSL
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - TRS
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.