• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:31
CET 05:31
KST 13:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1828
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list? Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns
Tourneys
SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced WardiTV Winter Cup
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1841 users

Mirror frustrations.

Blogs > Misanthrope
Post a Reply
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
February 08 2012 04:17 GMT
#1
Does anyone else feel just plain frustrated with mirror matchups?

I recently switched from Z to P after getting 17 ZvZs in a row on ladder. After putting in a few hours on YABOT I ventured back onto ladder, struggled a bit, and leveled out back where I was as Z after about 6 hours or so. Then I got 14 PvPs in a row.

I stopped playing Z because I just can't handle the crazy swings that happen in early ling/bane fights. I both love and hate the fact that one misclick will end the game. I thought that because of the nature of P units, being all around more durable, there would be a greater emphasis on engagement planning and execution over a longer period of time per battle, giving me more chances to win.

Ultimately, I came to realize there are still those one misclick loss moments in PvP, but overall my hypothesis seemed correct. Eventually though I became frustrated as I realized how hard it can be to scout, and that often times it's whoever makes a more correct guess that wins. This is most often me, and I do win the majority of my games, but I still feel really icky. Something tells me over a longer timeline that my guesses would even out.

I really wish I could thumbs down matchups or something like that. I've started just leaving every PvP at the start because it feels just bad to play. I did the same thing with Z after awhile. So I've come to the conclusion that I don't like mirror matchups. I feel like this is a huge sticking point for me, because I want to be better at the game and I do love playing it, but the general 'icky-ness' is such a huge turn off that it makes me want to do something else when I get a few in a row.

I can't make myself like something without changing my perspective on it, so I'm asking if anyone can offer some?

Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
ssi.bal-listic
Profile Joined October 2010
United States568 Posts
February 08 2012 04:21 GMT
#2
Well I can understand mirror matchups can be pain in the ass but it truly makes the balance QQness go away. Player with more skill will generally will (even in cheese, its skill to make up cheese and block cheese).
Or you can try terran since TvT is probably the most dynamic matchup
"It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you" "The strong one doesn't win, the one that wins is strong"
G_G
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada178 Posts
February 08 2012 04:22 GMT
#3
I love all non-mirror match ups, any race vs and other race, but I hate ZvZ and PvP. The simple solution for me was to play Terran since I enjoy TvT the most out of the mirror matchups.
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
February 08 2012 04:26 GMT
#4
Are you in masters? Theres a lot less terran players around our level now.
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
February 08 2012 04:34 GMT
#5
I was low masters Z, currently high diamond P. I actually did see the race distribution per league graph somewhere, and I gave it some consideration. I haven't watched much TvT despite the saturation of tournament content, so I don't really have a clue as to what makes it more dynamic. It seems like the same things that always happen in regards to getting information about T would be present in the matchup. Hard to scout past a wall, and doing so gives up a mule they won't have to if they're doing some kind of all in, and in that case you won't have the income to stop it.

Granted this is all just a guess based on past experience with the race, and is probably only true to a degree. I'd really hate to switch thinking it would be this world of sensible bliss, just to have the final realization that all mirror matchups are just as silly as the other.
Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
Fishgle
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2174 Posts
February 08 2012 04:40 GMT
#6
just go into chat, type PvT or PvZ 1400 ELO Match Point pw catdog

oh wait....

yea mirror matchups kind of suck, but ZvZ is easily my favorite.
aka ChillyGonzalo / GnozL
Selendis
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia509 Posts
February 08 2012 05:01 GMT
#7
Yeah I hate PvP atm. Seems to me that everyone is doing a different build but the one thing they all have in common? They all look exactly like a 4gate (high chrono energy before cyber etc).

I preferred PvP when everyone WAS 4gating, at least I knew how to deal with it.
Probes are sooo OP
peekn
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1152 Posts
February 08 2012 05:46 GMT
#8
Yeah I really hate PvP as well I can never tell what is going on, but I think that is just because I suck at scouting or something like that. All I know is that whatever I do they are doing the thing that beats it...or at least it seems that way. The only mirror match up that doesn't look incredibly painful to play is TvT, but I don't know since I'm not a Terran.

Not sure if mirror match ups will ever get any better, all we can do is wait and see.
Limelights
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States219 Posts
February 08 2012 07:20 GMT
#9
I love playing ZvZ's when I don't get ling all-ined. I try and create chokes with my pool, warren, and queen and tech to Lair after getting a few roaches but it's rarely ever enough. Certain maps have stupid spaces between mineral patches and two banelings can ruin my day.

If I can actually get past the early game ZvZ is a ton of fun. I enjoy playing Roach/Infestor.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 215
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 131
Dewaltoss 74
GoRush 37
ZergMaN 26
Hm[arnc] 17
EffOrt 16
Icarus 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever741
NeuroSwarm101
League of Legends
JimRising 712
C9.Mang0543
Counter-Strike
summit1g6741
Foxcn174
minikerr29
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox577
Mew2King60
Other Games
ZombieGrub111
ViBE81
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3549
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 59
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 18
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra2009
• Lourlo1063
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
5h 29m
OSC
7h 29m
Jumy vs sebesdes
Nicoract vs GgMaChine
ReBellioN vs MaNa
Lemon vs TriGGeR
Gerald vs Cure
Creator vs SHIN
OSC
1d 7h
All Star Teams
1d 21h
INnoVation vs soO
Serral vs herO
Cure vs Solar
sOs vs Scarlett
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
All Star Teams
2 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-14
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.