• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:58
CET 21:58
KST 05:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada0SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA1StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Learning my new SC2 hotkey…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1461 users

Mirror frustrations.

Blogs > Misanthrope
Post a Reply
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
February 08 2012 04:17 GMT
#1
Does anyone else feel just plain frustrated with mirror matchups?

I recently switched from Z to P after getting 17 ZvZs in a row on ladder. After putting in a few hours on YABOT I ventured back onto ladder, struggled a bit, and leveled out back where I was as Z after about 6 hours or so. Then I got 14 PvPs in a row.

I stopped playing Z because I just can't handle the crazy swings that happen in early ling/bane fights. I both love and hate the fact that one misclick will end the game. I thought that because of the nature of P units, being all around more durable, there would be a greater emphasis on engagement planning and execution over a longer period of time per battle, giving me more chances to win.

Ultimately, I came to realize there are still those one misclick loss moments in PvP, but overall my hypothesis seemed correct. Eventually though I became frustrated as I realized how hard it can be to scout, and that often times it's whoever makes a more correct guess that wins. This is most often me, and I do win the majority of my games, but I still feel really icky. Something tells me over a longer timeline that my guesses would even out.

I really wish I could thumbs down matchups or something like that. I've started just leaving every PvP at the start because it feels just bad to play. I did the same thing with Z after awhile. So I've come to the conclusion that I don't like mirror matchups. I feel like this is a huge sticking point for me, because I want to be better at the game and I do love playing it, but the general 'icky-ness' is such a huge turn off that it makes me want to do something else when I get a few in a row.

I can't make myself like something without changing my perspective on it, so I'm asking if anyone can offer some?

Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
ssi.bal-listic
Profile Joined October 2010
United States568 Posts
February 08 2012 04:21 GMT
#2
Well I can understand mirror matchups can be pain in the ass but it truly makes the balance QQness go away. Player with more skill will generally will (even in cheese, its skill to make up cheese and block cheese).
Or you can try terran since TvT is probably the most dynamic matchup
"It's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you" "The strong one doesn't win, the one that wins is strong"
G_G
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada178 Posts
February 08 2012 04:22 GMT
#3
I love all non-mirror match ups, any race vs and other race, but I hate ZvZ and PvP. The simple solution for me was to play Terran since I enjoy TvT the most out of the mirror matchups.
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
February 08 2012 04:26 GMT
#4
Are you in masters? Theres a lot less terran players around our level now.
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
February 08 2012 04:34 GMT
#5
I was low masters Z, currently high diamond P. I actually did see the race distribution per league graph somewhere, and I gave it some consideration. I haven't watched much TvT despite the saturation of tournament content, so I don't really have a clue as to what makes it more dynamic. It seems like the same things that always happen in regards to getting information about T would be present in the matchup. Hard to scout past a wall, and doing so gives up a mule they won't have to if they're doing some kind of all in, and in that case you won't have the income to stop it.

Granted this is all just a guess based on past experience with the race, and is probably only true to a degree. I'd really hate to switch thinking it would be this world of sensible bliss, just to have the final realization that all mirror matchups are just as silly as the other.
Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
Fishgle
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2174 Posts
February 08 2012 04:40 GMT
#6
just go into chat, type PvT or PvZ 1400 ELO Match Point pw catdog

oh wait....

yea mirror matchups kind of suck, but ZvZ is easily my favorite.
aka ChillyGonzalo / GnozL
Selendis
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia509 Posts
February 08 2012 05:01 GMT
#7
Yeah I hate PvP atm. Seems to me that everyone is doing a different build but the one thing they all have in common? They all look exactly like a 4gate (high chrono energy before cyber etc).

I preferred PvP when everyone WAS 4gating, at least I knew how to deal with it.
Probes are sooo OP
peekn
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1152 Posts
February 08 2012 05:46 GMT
#8
Yeah I really hate PvP as well I can never tell what is going on, but I think that is just because I suck at scouting or something like that. All I know is that whatever I do they are doing the thing that beats it...or at least it seems that way. The only mirror match up that doesn't look incredibly painful to play is TvT, but I don't know since I'm not a Terran.

Not sure if mirror match ups will ever get any better, all we can do is wait and see.
Limelights
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States219 Posts
February 08 2012 07:20 GMT
#9
I love playing ZvZ's when I don't get ling all-ined. I try and create chokes with my pool, warren, and queen and tech to Lair after getting a few roaches but it's rarely ever enough. Certain maps have stupid spaces between mineral patches and two banelings can ruin my day.

If I can actually get past the early game ZvZ is a ton of fun. I enjoy playing Roach/Infestor.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 3m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 333
JuggernautJason98
BRAT_OK 83
ROOTCatZ 76
Railgan 56
ForJumy 26
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2928
Horang2 957
Shuttle 552
Free 91
NaDa 12
League of Legends
rGuardiaN46
Counter-Strike
fl0m1510
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu492
Other Games
Grubby4461
FrodaN1631
Beastyqt922
shahzam402
Pyrionflax162
ArmadaUGS118
Mew2King77
Trikslyr64
ZombieGrub40
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV84
Algost 5
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 263
• Hupsaiya 44
• Adnapsc2 18
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Dystopia_ 0
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV576
League of Legends
• imaqtpie2979
• TFBlade1033
Other Games
• Shiphtur348
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 3m
WardiTV Korean Royale
15h 3m
OSC
20h 3m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 15h
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.