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My attitude to imbalance is pretty simple. Normally I just don't think about it. It doesn't concern me. What does concern me is winning games. Never have I played a game where I felt I couldn't win If I just did a few things differently.
Nevertheless, the TLPD stats for January are no surprise for me. Now some of you dear readers may be thinking "ah but are those stats truly representative of the current win rates at the high levels of play?"
Sadly, with a seemingly unbiased sample size of >8000 games, it seems pretty accurate to me.
Do I think this means the matchup is unbalanced?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BDMHA.png) According to Greg, the answer is a resounding "YES, Protoss OP"
No, not necessarily, this is only 1 month's worth of data and sc2 is still a relatively young game. Only time will tell.
So what's with all the protoss QQ? What changed?
I can't comment on the pro level but I can tell you my experiences.
4 months ago, I had a seemingly solid opener against zerg. I would open stargate (off two base of course) and then transition to zealot archon and muscle my way to victory.
Then suddenly I hit a wall, mass roach was giving me grief. I would have thought that void rays would take care of the threat of roaches, but no apparently mass roach counters void rays as well as zealots and archons. I would have roaches walk right up to my third and one shot it then walk away like a nice cheery "fuck you".
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IVaBy.jpg) Roach-Ling Steve has nothing on 3+ base Mass Roach Steve...
Eventually I adapted, I'm not sure how, but then I faced a very different problem I thought I never would have to face with a stargate opener. Mutalisks.
"WTH?!" I thought at first. But after examining replays I found the problem. Zergs would thwart my stargate pressure with 3 bases worth of queens and then as soon as it was safe to do so, go right up to 6 gases and a spire. Needless to say, 6 gases worth of mutalisks beats one stargate worth of anything. But what about my archons? My archons got magic boxxed and disappeared like a genie into a lamp.
I considered upping the stargate count, but this would ironically leave me more vulnerable to roach tech switches.
I needed a new BO. Luckily Col.rsvp had one for me and all the other poor tossers out there. I stole it, gutted it and refitted it with all my personal accesories. I would quickly accumulate an upgraded stalker core and augment it with templar or collosi depending on what I scouted. And it worked.
Little did I know what I was merely a pawn fighting in an interspecies evolutionary arms race. As I got better at blinking and storming, my opponents got better at feinting, containing and dodging.
Nowadays, I can fight toe to toe with mutas and come out of it alive. But it doesn't matter, by the time I have broke the contain and shut down the mutas, I have a maxxed army of BL Infestor breathing down my neck. Just like surviving the mutalisks required 300 apm of stalker moving, pylon replacing and storming, BL infestor requires 300 apm of finding a spot where BL, infestors, lings, mutas and spine walls are not to attack and distract while the builders from Auir install that new toilet. Unfortunately most zergs are too smart to fall for such tricks anymore. It's the zerg's game to lose.
This is why I don't win long macro games vsZ anymore. So why does my statcraft account say 50% win rate vsZ when I don't win macro games against them?
Because salvation is one warp-in a way. Pros may have figured it out but at my level of play the plethora of WG all-ins still pwn unsuspecting zergs. It's a game of hide and seek with proxy pylons and hidden gateways now.
But one proxy pylon is all I need, and as soon as the ladder zergs figures it out, I will whip out a different all in with a different timing. They can't defend against EVERY possibility...
It's a jungle out there, it's kill or be killed.
So if you're having muta problems, I feel bad for you son, I've got a proxy pylon up and warpgate's done.
 
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Lovely post 5/5 Though I can imagine Zerg players coming in here in droves to bitch and complain about that very same proxy pylon and how broken force fields are. I have been in your situation many times before and it's a real challenge fighting in the long macro games. Against mass muta, into tons of bases and a remaxed festor BL comp.
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meh, defending against mutas is mostly a map thing, some maps are harder than others, taldarim and cloud kingdom (oh and entombed valley) come to mind immediately as i think of a map where mutas can bounce between your 3rd and your main but on maps where that isn't possible defending is actually quite simple...and you seem to have sortof figured that stage out
your problem with a sudden infestor bl switch is a combination of no map presence (make moar observers xD) and a late switch to carriers/mothership imo but...best of luck being cheesy like everyone else who will never truly be good at the game due to coin flip builds that they make/use which usually depend on their opponent's inadequacy...but still, good luck bro
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On February 03 2012 06:43 unit wrote:
meh, defending against mutas is mostly a map thing, some maps are harder than others, taldarim and cloud kingdom (oh and entombed valley) come to mind immediately as i think of a map where mutas can bounce between your 3rd and your main but on maps where that isn't possible defending is actually quite simple...and you seem to have sortof figured that stage out
your problem with a sudden infestor bl switch is a combination of no map presence (make moar observers xD) and a late switch to carriers/mothership imo but...best of luck being cheesy like everyone else who will never truly be good at the game due to coin flip builds that they make/use which usually depend on their opponent's inadequacy...but still, good luck bro
I have won with carriers before in PvZ, but it is very difficult to get critical mass. If zerg sees it they can just sacc supply and make more corruptors.
Void Ray-Carrier-Mothership can work in such a situation but it's still difficult and you face the aforementioned problem against mass roach (only with ultralisk and lings) in that if you give up ground control to get air control, they can base race you and win.
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Haha great write up made me laugh a few times! loved that seconds pic : )
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I feel you man. I don't care if the win rate is 90% for Protoss. If the only way to get to GSL finals is to two base all in (and history says yes), then something is wrong with the game.
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Its really interesting to hear about PvZ from the other side. Personally I spend the first 7 minutes of the game sweating my ass off nervously looking for a WG all-in, FE or not. DT and Stargate don't bother me much anymore unless it's extremely well done, the thing that scares me is the following. Heavy robo. The combination of immortals, colossus and lots of observers with a stalker base is a nightmare. Corruptors still suck against colossus, and there isn't really a solid ground style that can fight straight up against 3+ colossus now that neural range has been nerfed. Protoss players that play really safe, making a few cannons at their front/min lines to deter mutas, aggressively expand and constant pressure with colossus after range is done really is difficult to deal with. The late mid game against aggressive robo puts zerg in a hard spot, you're not free to tech to Hive as you're trading outrageously inefficiently with the protoss collosus ball and need to continue to make tier 1 and 2. I see this play out differently when protoss doesn't open with colossus, as the colossus comes much later and zerg has time to get to T3 with an extra base or two. I don't play protoss but why don't people open with robo very often anymore?
Great blog BTW, made me laugh and it was well written.
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I feel that sentries become underused in the mid to late game even if it is a ton of gas. You can box and abuse roaches so hard if they go into mass roach production. This is from a ZvP perspective though. So my words are not korean wisdom!
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It's so good to know that you use Storm.
I notice that most of the Protoss players on the ladder never goes to the HT tech and bitch about Mutas.
Maybe they are too lazy to control another spell-caster.. who knows... :p
Oh, and IdrA's point of view is invalid.
HuK proved that Zerg can beat Protoss, no problem. :D
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wow. that summarizes how I Feel exactly. awesome.
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On February 03 2012 10:27 Hoon wrote:
It's so good to know that you use Storm.
I notice that most of the Protoss players on the ladder never goes to the HT tech and bitch about Mutas.
Maybe they are too lazy to control another spell-caster.. who knows... :p
Oh, and IdrA's point of view is invalid.
HuK proved that Zerg can beat Protoss, no problem. :D
Huk just got thrown out of Code A by a regular zerg though.
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On February 03 2012 07:20 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
Its really interesting to hear about PvZ from the other side. Personally I spend the first 7 minutes of the game sweating my ass off nervously looking for a WG all-in, FE or not. DT and Stargate don't bother me much anymore unless it's extremely well done, the thing that scares me is the following. Heavy robo. The combination of immortals, colossus and lots of observers with a stalker base is a nightmare. Corruptors still suck against colossus, and there isn't really a solid ground style that can fight straight up against 3+ colossus now that neural range has been nerfed. Protoss players that play really safe, making a few cannons at their front/min lines to deter mutas, aggressively expand and constant pressure with colossus after range is done really is difficult to deal with. The late mid game against aggressive robo puts zerg in a hard spot, you're not free to tech to Hive as you're trading outrageously inefficiently with the protoss collosus ball and need to continue to make tier 1 and 2. I see this play out differently when protoss doesn't open with colossus, as the colossus comes much later and zerg has time to get to T3 with an extra base or two. I don't play protoss but why don't people open with robo very often anymore?
Great blog BTW, made me laugh and it was well written.
People don't open with robo very often anymore because of how hard it hurts when the zerg gets mutas. Sure, you can get robo, get obs, see the spire and transition into blink/stargate/HTs. But by then it's normally too late 
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On February 03 2012 11:22 heha wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 07:20 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
Its really interesting to hear about PvZ from the other side. Personally I spend the first 7 minutes of the game sweating my ass off nervously looking for a WG all-in, FE or not. DT and Stargate don't bother me much anymore unless it's extremely well done, the thing that scares me is the following. Heavy robo. The combination of immortals, colossus and lots of observers with a stalker base is a nightmare. Corruptors still suck against colossus, and there isn't really a solid ground style that can fight straight up against 3+ colossus now that neural range has been nerfed. Protoss players that play really safe, making a few cannons at their front/min lines to deter mutas, aggressively expand and constant pressure with colossus after range is done really is difficult to deal with. The late mid game against aggressive robo puts zerg in a hard spot, you're not free to tech to Hive as you're trading outrageously inefficiently with the protoss collosus ball and need to continue to make tier 1 and 2. I see this play out differently when protoss doesn't open with colossus, as the colossus comes much later and zerg has time to get to T3 with an extra base or two. I don't play protoss but why don't people open with robo very often anymore?
Great blog BTW, made me laugh and it was well written. People don't open with robo very often anymore because of how hard it hurts when the zerg gets mutas. Sure, you can get robo, get obs, see the spire and transition into blink/stargate/HTs. But by then it's normally too late
Stalkers are absolutely fine vs mutas unless you sit back for so long that a massive muta ball is made, by which time you can tech to whatever you want anyway.
I thought P just got bored of going robo.
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On February 03 2012 11:43 deathly rat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 11:22 heha wrote:On February 03 2012 07:20 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
Its really interesting to hear about PvZ from the other side. Personally I spend the first 7 minutes of the game sweating my ass off nervously looking for a WG all-in, FE or not. DT and Stargate don't bother me much anymore unless it's extremely well done, the thing that scares me is the following. Heavy robo. The combination of immortals, colossus and lots of observers with a stalker base is a nightmare. Corruptors still suck against colossus, and there isn't really a solid ground style that can fight straight up against 3+ colossus now that neural range has been nerfed. Protoss players that play really safe, making a few cannons at their front/min lines to deter mutas, aggressively expand and constant pressure with colossus after range is done really is difficult to deal with. The late mid game against aggressive robo puts zerg in a hard spot, you're not free to tech to Hive as you're trading outrageously inefficiently with the protoss collosus ball and need to continue to make tier 1 and 2. I see this play out differently when protoss doesn't open with colossus, as the colossus comes much later and zerg has time to get to T3 with an extra base or two. I don't play protoss but why don't people open with robo very often anymore?
Great blog BTW, made me laugh and it was well written. People don't open with robo very often anymore because of how hard it hurts when the zerg gets mutas. Sure, you can get robo, get obs, see the spire and transition into blink/stargate/HTs. But by then it's normally too late Stalkers are absolutely fine vs mutas unless you sit back for so long that a massive muta ball is made, by which time you can tech to whatever you want anyway. I thought P just got bored of going robo.
Hm, how do I put this. Generally if you open robo and go for colossus, you're kind of gas tight off 2 bases (which is normally what you're on when opening robo). As such, your composition is generally zealot/sentry/colossi with a small smattering of stalkers. If zerg is opening say, 2 base mutas, your obs will get to his base around/just before spire pops. You then proceed to try to get only stalkers/colossi. However, it's almost guaranteed you'll take at least a bit of economic damage from his harass, and zerg can take a third/fourth during this time. This forces you to sit back whilst they build up that large muta ball. Stephano's been using this to great effect recently on ladder. Even fast 3 bases into roach ling into mutas can build up a large flock before you're ready. The main issue is that stalkers have fairly low DPS against non-armored, which makes them not terribly effective against mutas.
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Good blog
So if you are having problems with mutas, I feel sorry for you son, I've got a proxy pylon up and warpgate's done.
and while this literally made me laugh out loud, I think the begging should be "if your havin muta problems I feel bad for you son"
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On February 03 2012 12:12 how wrote:Good blog Show nested quote +So if you are having problems with mutas, I feel sorry for you son, I've got a proxy pylon up and warpgate's done. and while this literally made me laugh out loud, I think the begging should be "if your havin muta problems I feel bad for you son"
fix'd 
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EPT
