• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:06
CEST 03:06
KST 10:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202530RSL Season 1 - Final Week8[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams2Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Corsair Pursuit Micro?
Tourneys
[CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 642 users

[spoilers] thoughts on Stars vs SKT

Blogs > khy
Post a Reply
khy
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States475 Posts
January 12 2012 03:00 GMT
#1
If you didn't happen to watch the Stars vs SKT match last night, you probably clicked on the results tab and yelled WTF at your monitor. It could've been anything: Stars actually winning; Stars somehow winning with Zero/Soulkey dropping their sets; and little Hon_Sin beating Bisu.

I happened to tune in on that particular set and immediately started squeeing in fanboy glee. Games like this are why I love watching pro Broodwar. So what happened? How did a relative B-teamer manage to beat Bisu?

The short answer is 2fac, but a lot more went into the build that Sin used. The first thing that struck me was the mindgame he pulled on Bisu--from the outside in, it looked like Sin was using a standard FD, or Fake Double. I think it was Midas who popularized this build some time ago--2005? Anyway, for those who don't know, FD is so named because it creates the illusion that Terran is going for a double factory push, leading the Protoss into believing that the victory is now predicated on stopping the push. As it turns out, the aggression is actually a screen for the Terran to take his natural. Much more detailed information at the liquipeda page.

So what does an FD look like? In the past, it used to be around 4 marines, a siege tank, and a vulture at the outset. The marines and tank would provide the DPS while the vulture would constantly contest position by planting mines around the Protoss' defending dragoons. Good micro would chase the Protoss all the way to his natural, where the Terran could choose to continue his aggression. The build is most effective against greedy builds that delay observers for whatever end.

So this is what Bisu saw when he scouted Sin--or at least tried to, since Sin had four marines to block the scout. This is perfectly reasonable, and he could still continue his assumption even after Sin sat at his natural choke. One tank, eight or so marines (or was it? I can't find the VOD yet) and one vulture--perfectly standard modern FD. Bisu only realized something was up when far more vultures were out on the field than were possible with just one factory. I wish they zoomed in on his face when he had a bunch of vultures running around his side of the map. Bisuface 2.0? Nah, probably not.

Anyway, what followed was a late response to a 2fac. From the Terran point of view, a 2fac ideally will kill the Protoss outright at the first engagement, but that only happens with D players on iCCup. The Terran will know to move to set up a hard contain, complete with buildings and all kinds of Terran ridiculousness in front of the Protoss natural. Which is exactly what Sin did--he immediately started an engie bay and a bunker, along with a supply depot if I remember correctly.

This made me realize how well-thought out this build was. Let's look at this from the Protoss' point of view: Tanks and shit in the natural, what do you do? 1. Try to break the contain, 2. Sac the natural and break the contain later and 3. Take advantage of the Terran's all-in to do some reaver or DT harass in his main, hopefully crippling his economy badly enough that you can break his contain and still come out even, or more likely on top.

All of this involves shuttle play, as the commentators immediately pointed out. So the engiebay and the bunker made sense, except they were late. Sin messed up and left his marines in his main, turrets don't build in ten seconds, so Bisu broke the first contain.

The rest of the game didn't have as many "oh man that was cool" moments. There was the fast +1 that Sin got that made a lot of sense, given that he was, you know, all-in; a lot of ridiculously intense engagements; Sin sniffing out Bisu's 3rd immediately, which was another sign of how well he'd prepared; getting a Goliath perfectly in time to stop Bisu's first counter-drop in his main; almost setting up a turret in time to stop Bisu's reaver drop...I guess these are the last few highlights I remember that wowed me and the commentators.

Hope this sheds some light on this set. I know it seems a lot like a stupid 2fac from an out-classed Terran, but it was actually a joy to watch if you saw the less obvious details.

bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3693 Posts
January 12 2012 03:24 GMT
#2
Can't wait 'till the VODs are out for this series, battle report incoming (:

It was certainly the most exciting and edge-of-me-seat game to watch, because for a normal person they'd be straight up dead, but Bisu kept on pulling off these ridiculous engagements and making it look like he was still in the game, though the biggest problem was how he engaged the tank ball from the 4fact, where he lost all his army when he didn't need to, and IMO that's what sealed the deal. WANT VOD
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10153 Posts
January 12 2012 03:25 GMT
#3
pretty good analysis of the game. You should do some Battle Reports. Also, pictures here would have helped a lot to explain in more detail of everything you were talking about.

but all-in-all, good analysis!
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
iSometric
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
2221 Posts
January 12 2012 04:23 GMT
#4
Glad they finally played flying. he's underrated.
strava.com/athletes/zhaodynasty
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 54m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 162
SpeCial 153
ProTech58
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 63
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1144
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Cuddl3bear2
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 370
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox495
AZ_Axe135
Other Games
tarik_tv9159
Day[9].tv1119
shahzam762
C9.Mang0256
ViBE211
Maynarde181
Livibee78
Liquid`Ken15
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1511
BasetradeTV28
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 43
• rockletztv 32
• HeavenSC 6
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5342
Other Games
• Scarra1687
• Day9tv1119
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
8h 54m
ByuN vs Zoun
SHIN vs TriGGeR
Cyan vs ShoWTimE
Rogue vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs Solar
Reynor vs Maru
herO vs Cure
Serral vs Classic
Esports World Cup
1d 8h
Esports World Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.