• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:19
CEST 23:19
KST 06:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down10ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League54Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.166
StarCraft 2
General
REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? Bot on ladder [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Sagi.gg Launcher Released Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [ASL22] Grand Finals [BSL23] RO24 Group Stage KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9145 users

Replaceable Parts Part Two: The Player

Blogs > ChristianS
Post a Reply
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
December 27 2011 04:04 GMT
#1
In part one, I laid out a general RTS concept that I was interested in, which could partially and incompletely be described by the term "customizable units". I believe that this model could have a great deal of potential in creating more dynamic gameplay. But what exactly are the benefits of such a model? What problem in game design does it solve?

Game design is a process in which the designers create the game, and then the players play it (duh). This means that designers have an idea of gameplay that they think would be fun, and then create situations that will generate that gameplay. The issue is where the job of the designer stops and the job of the player begins. A designer can create a system in which units receive very specific move and attack commands from the player, and all the designer has to do is program how those commands work, or the designer do a great deal of work creating a reasonably effective attack move command, and all the player has to do is enact that general command and watch as the game unfolds. The advantages of having the designer manage that particular aspect of gameplay is that the game can be designed with that issue held constant, making it easier to design the game as a whole. It can also take the more tedious aspects of gameplay and take them out of the hands of the player, allowing the player to focus on more interesting tasks.

But the disadvantage is one of the more often-forgot aspects of gaming suffers: skill. If your opponent has a general attack-move command and you have a general attack-move command, then your attacks will be roughly equal, and you'll have to find somewhere else to get ahead. But if you can micromanage your attack and force it to come out more in your favor, then you can work on commanding your units particularly well and shift the game in your advantage. Similarly, if your army control is lacking, then you'll find yourself behind more often, and you'll have something to work on.

Various games vary as to how much they put in the hands of the individual. Some games prefer a vast and complex system in which everything is in your hands; other games prefer a series of quicktime events, and the game functions more as a movie than as gameplay. Put everything in the hands of the designer, and you're just watching a CGI that some game developer made; put everything in the hands of the player, and you're just asking them to design their own game. Games also vary in what aspects they find important to put in the hands of the player; Starcraft puts a great deal of emphasis on managing your economy efficiently and effectively, while DotA actually has most of the armies generated by the computer, and the only part controlled by the player is the heroes.

Obviously there are a number of solutions as to the problem of where the developer manages things and where the player manages them, and different solutions are better for different kinds of games. A good principle is whatever aspect of your game is supposed to be the most fun should be where the player has to work to make things happen. The parts of the game that seem more boring should be the parts where the designer takes more responsibility. The idea here is that the designer wants to draw the player's attention to the best parts of the game, so reward the player for paying attention to and spending actions on the fun parts, but if a part of the game is more boring, then forcing them to spend actions on that part of the game is forcing the player to do the part of the game that isn't as fun.

This means that the appeal of your game is directly related to how you draw the line between developer and player. In an RTS, a great deal of the draw is in finding effective strategies, fleshing them out, working out the economy aspects associated with them, and executing them effectively. This means that putting the player in charge of designing strategies is effective. But sometimes it is tempting on the part of the game designer to build the strategies for the player, rather than letting them work it out themselves. An example of this is the marine-marauder-medivac; there is a very strong "forced synergy" between these units, such that the player is pretty much forced to build an MMM composition if they want to make use of these units. It doesn't take a genius to look at the terran unit pool and see that these units clearly cover each other's weaknesses nicely, such that very little strategizing is actually done on the part of the player.

Many of the recent HotS unit announcements reflect this same phenomenon. The Warhound, for instance, practically has a big red "Use Me Against Mech!" sticker on it. This is not necessarily bad; the warhound is, hopefully, going to make mech viable TvP, and I personally am quite excited for HotS. But most of the units being added have very clear "Use Me This Way" stickers on them. Protoss needs a harassment unit; use the Oracle! Anti-air? Use the tempest! Siege breaker? Use the swarm host! This takes strategy out of the hands of the player, and puts it in the hands of the designer, and naturally the point of designing the game is so the player can have fun.

Other HotS units are done in a more interesting fashion. The replicator's purpose is... what? Well, that's not exactly obvious. That's not to say the unit is worthless; replicating enemy units can indeed be a powerful ability. It just gives the player a great deal more freedom as to how the game should be played. Similarly, the shredder has an unclear place in gameplay. It's obviously a very powerful unit, but as for how it should be used, who knows? Maybe to secure counter-attack paths? Maybe for drop harass? I've used the thing in the HotS custom map someone designed, and the thing is extremely powerful, at least TvZ, but the investment isn't really worth it if you just use it for defense, and it's too hard to make it useful if you do a straight-up attack with it to the side of your army. Attack with it, and it'll die before it can plant itself and start emitting radiation. It has a sticker like "Use Me For Board Control", but board control is an elusive and confusing enough quantity that interesting strategizing and gameplay can be generated by figuring out the intricacies of such a unit.

A unit customization model does the same thing, but to a greater degree. Rather than developers telling their players how to play the game, and the players executing as best they can, developers lay the groundwork for interesting play, and players figure out how the play should work.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
TG Manny
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States325 Posts
December 27 2011 05:38 GMT
#2
I like your idea but I wish you would elaborate further on how players can develop "synergized" units without an obvious throw from the developers so that the player can use X unit more than a few ways.

You say it yourself, Starcraft is a game of economy and therefore a game of production. I imagine many of the new units will be fairly expensive or techy or both and to use them well you need to give up other aspects of your game. (examples in WoL are mutalisk rushes with little or no army produced before. You force the strat to be built around defending two bases while getting an early flock of mutas BUT a Terran who scouts can react with aggression to delay it or turret up. Then there comes how Zerg reacts with his resources. Mutalisk easily is air
Control and harass unit stickered but the whole composition and strat is what makes them versatile. Same with marine as main DPS or AA role, or hellion as a harass or map control option)

I have not played any HOTS games, so time will tell how easy or hard these units can be made and used to see how the entire composition works and how the strategies win games. If we were playing DotA then I'd be worried because of how one dimensional the units would be, but since you get 140 army
Or so worth of supply to work in a mixture of units I am less worried about the explicit nature of X Y and Z unit
Singularity is at hand...
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 42m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 410
Liquid`TLO 204
Nathanias 9
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 16714
Liquid`Hasu 447
firebathero 319
ProTech197
910 35
Yoon 21
HiyA 15
Dota 2
syndereN469
monkeys_forever197
League of Legends
Doublelift1160
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1134
kRYSTAL_31
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr74
Other Games
summit1g3995
FrodaN900
fl0m741
ToD269
C9.Mang0143
JuggernautJason71
QueenE52
ViBE28
NeuroSwarm21
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 19
• musti20045 17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra816
Other Games
• imaqtpie940
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 42m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
13h 42m
Harstem vs Zoun
Harstem vs GgMaChine
GgMaChine vs Lambo
Harstem vs Lambo
GgMaChine vs Zoun
Lambo vs Zoun
OSC
16h 42m
Big Brain Bouts
18h 42m
FEL
1d 11h
Patches Events
1d 15h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 19h
FEL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-20
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.