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zul
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany5427 Posts
December 14 2011 11:50 GMT
#1
I am reading so many comments hating on GOM TV for punishing Naniwa for his „game“ versus Nestea and it seems like a lot of people don`t understand why this decision was made. I`m sure many of you still go to school or university and probably have no real job. But when you have a real job, you just have to do your work. Even in moments that can be described as mentally difficult. I know this is hard. That`s one reason why you get paid for it.

Naniwa knew the rules before he entered the tournament. He knew that if he would go 0:3 he still would have to play a 4th game, because GOMTV wants to broadcast every match. GOMTV is selling tickets and for them to be successful, they need to serve the highest quality in production and games. Naniwa refused to do his part, even though he agree to all the terms by entering the competition in the first place and therefore GOM got in trouble.

“During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours “ (GOM TV rule)

Some TL forumusers said GOM bends their own rules. I disagree. Nestea, who had his birthday one day before the match, did not celebrate it, but trained all day. GOMTV wanted to show games between the best players in the world. Fans tuned in (some of them even bought tickets just to see Naniwa, their favorite player, play) to be amazed by their idols skill. By not playing the game, but a-clicking 7 probes to Nesteas base, Naniwa was literally showing the fuckfinger to everyone. Clearly stating: I don`t care about any of you.

Money does not grow on trees! Sometimes I wonder how little some “pro”gamers know about their own industry. Being a professional Gamer needs more than just training inside the game. You need to be able to give at least “ok” interviews and satisfy your sponsors. You need to have a mentally stable mind. You need to have a vision for your own future. You need to cooperate with other parts of the industry. You need to be able to swallow down pride and pain and just do what is demanded of you.

Being a progamer sounds amazing. You travel around the globe and meet all kinds of people. You make a ton of experience in just a few years. You make money by playing a game. You get a lot of fans. BUT not everything is sweet. Like in every other job there will be times where you don`t want to do certain things. These situations will divide the masses. Some players will only be able to play “when they want to” and not “when they have to” and that´s why the huge majority will always remain amateurs, while only very few will actually become professional gamers.

I want to close this blog with some wise words from the BossToss himself.

“@oGsMC: I was really lost for words after watching today's game. Does he even know what the word "pro" is? My role model for professionalism is White-Ra. He really loves his fans, and doesn't give up his games until the end, and he's very mannered towards everyone. Does anyone dislike White-Ra?

I hope Naniwa can look at White-Ra and change his mentality. I don't think it's right to do that, not considering your opponent at all. I wish he'd think about how he would have felt if I had gone 3-0 and confirmed #1 in my group, and he was 0-3, and I thought that since I'm 1st place nothing matters and just GG'd out of my game against him.

Well, if you there's no big deal because there's no money on the the line, then I can't say anything to that, you're just not a pro. After seeing Naniwa, I thought HerO was all the more awesome for being so upset about losing his games yesterday.
“ (taken from Waxangels twitter blog)

**
keep it deep! @zulison
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
December 14 2011 11:54 GMT
#2
The games should have never even been played in the first place. I get that he should have given it his all, but he shouldn't have been placed in that position. I agree that some punishment was necessary, but Chae's words are why I'm outraged. He said NaNi was after only the money. That's just fucking wrong.
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
forSeohyun
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
504 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 11:59:56
December 14 2011 11:58 GMT
#3
But MC wrote "/" and Stephano wrote something to the effect of "gl Hero" when the GSL rules states
"9) There should be no communication between the players other than ‘GG’, ‘gg’, ‘ㅎㅎ’,'ㅈㅈ' and etc to surrender the game."

"Automatic Loss Rule

Sending chat messages other than ‘GG’, ‘gg’, ‘ㅎㅎ’,'ㅈㅈ' to declare the loss during the game."

So, of course the rules can be bent in both directions, sometimes good and sometimes bad.

Naniwa did the wrong thing, but I can't say GSL handled the situation optimally. They are of course in the right to do what they want.
I hope the good thing to come out of this is that they update their rule book and make clear rules what constitutes acceptable behaviour. It feels a bit loose at the moment.
Seohyun fan
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:09:07
December 14 2011 12:04 GMT
#4
On December 14 2011 20:58 StatorFlux wrote:
But MC wrote "/" and Stephano wrote something to the effect of "gl Hero" when the GSL rules states
"9) There should be no communication between the players other than ‘GG’, ‘gg’, ‘ㅎㅎ’,'ㅈㅈ' and etc to surrender the game."

"Automatic Loss Rule

Sending chat messages other than ‘GG’, ‘gg’, ‘ㅎㅎ’,'ㅈㅈ' to declare the loss during the game."

So, of course the rules can be bent in both directions, sometimes good and sometimes bad.

Naniwa did the wrong thing, but I can't say GSL handled the situation optimally. They are of course in the right to do what they want.
I hope the good thing to come out of this is that they update their rule book and make clear rules what constitutes acceptable behaviour. It feels a bit loose at the moment.

This is a stupid argument. GOM's rules are not the 10 commandments and they can bend them as they wish because they're GOM. Every single person watching in korea was outraged, people need to get a clue. You're on korean turf, halfway across the world as an invited guest, show some god damn respect for their tournament. It was obvious this was gonna cause controversy. Foreigners are too used to divas getting away with disrespectful shit all the time that this isn't a big deal, but GSL is a korean tournament. If I say take your shoes off when you come into my house, take your damn shoes off or you're getting kicked out.
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
December 14 2011 12:10 GMT
#5
On December 14 2011 21:04 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 20:58 StatorFlux wrote:
But MC wrote "/" and Stephano wrote something to the effect of "gl Hero" when the GSL rules states
"9) There should be no communication between the players other than ‘GG’, ‘gg’, ‘ㅎㅎ’,'ㅈㅈ' and etc to surrender the game."

"Automatic Loss Rule

Sending chat messages other than ‘GG’, ‘gg’, ‘ㅎㅎ’,'ㅈㅈ' to declare the loss during the game."

So, of course the rules can be bent in both directions, sometimes good and sometimes bad.

Naniwa did the wrong thing, but I can't say GSL handled the situation optimally. They are of course in the right to do what they want.
I hope the good thing to come out of this is that they update their rule book and make clear rules what constitutes acceptable behaviour. It feels a bit loose at the moment.

This is a stupid argument. GOM's rules are not the 10 commandments and they can bend them as they wish because they're GOM. Every single person watching in korea was outraged, people need to get a clue. You're on korean turf, halfway across the world as an invited guest, show some god damn respect for their tournament. It was obvious this was gonna cause controversy. Foreigners are too used to divas getting away with disrespectful shit all the time that this isn't a big deal, but GSL is a korean tournament. If I say take your shoes off when you come into my house, take your damn shoes off or you're getting kicked out.


Foreigners were upset too...
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:12:17
December 14 2011 12:12 GMT
#6
On December 14 2011 21:10 mizU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:04 Itsmedudeman wrote:
On December 14 2011 20:58 StatorFlux wrote:
But MC wrote "/" and Stephano wrote something to the effect of "gl Hero" when the GSL rules states
"9) There should be no communication between the players other than ‘GG’, ‘gg’, ‘ㅎㅎ’,'ㅈㅈ' and etc to surrender the game."

"Automatic Loss Rule

Sending chat messages other than ‘GG’, ‘gg’, ‘ㅎㅎ’,'ㅈㅈ' to declare the loss during the game."

So, of course the rules can be bent in both directions, sometimes good and sometimes bad.

Naniwa did the wrong thing, but I can't say GSL handled the situation optimally. They are of course in the right to do what they want.
I hope the good thing to come out of this is that they update their rule book and make clear rules what constitutes acceptable behaviour. It feels a bit loose at the moment.

This is a stupid argument. GOM's rules are not the 10 commandments and they can bend them as they wish because they're GOM. Every single person watching in korea was outraged, people need to get a clue. You're on korean turf, halfway across the world as an invited guest, show some god damn respect for their tournament. It was obvious this was gonna cause controversy. Foreigners are too used to divas getting away with disrespectful shit all the time that this isn't a big deal, but GSL is a korean tournament. If I say take your shoes off when you come into my house, take your damn shoes off or you're getting kicked out.


Foreigners were upset too...

Yes, but people saying it was okay and should be allowed with no punishment is what I'm referring to. It seems like it's split 50/50 on yes/no. Naniwa got away with calling MLG a joke tournament on the main stage and doing a bunch of shady shit. I can't believe we still let that one go.
forSeohyun
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
504 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:16:19
December 14 2011 12:14 GMT
#7
On December 14 2011 21:04 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 20:58 StatorFlux wrote:
But MC wrote "/" and Stephano wrote something to the effect of "gl Hero" when the GSL rules states
"9) There should be no communication between the players other than ‘GG’, ‘gg’, ‘ㅎㅎ’,'ㅈㅈ' and etc to surrender the game."

"Automatic Loss Rule

Sending chat messages other than ‘GG’, ‘gg’, ‘ㅎㅎ’,'ㅈㅈ' to declare the loss during the game."

So, of course the rules can be bent in both directions, sometimes good and sometimes bad.

Naniwa did the wrong thing, but I can't say GSL handled the situation optimally. They are of course in the right to do what they want.
I hope the good thing to come out of this is that they update their rule book and make clear rules what constitutes acceptable behaviour. It feels a bit loose at the moment.

This is a stupid argument. GOM's rules are not the 10 commandments and they can bend them as they wish because they're GOM. Every single person watching in korea was outraged, people need to get a clue. You're on korean turf, halfway across the world as an invited guest, show some god damn respect for their tournament. It was obvious this was gonna cause controversy. Foreigners are too used to divas getting away with disrespectful shit all the time that this isn't a big deal, but GSL is a korean tournament. If I say take your shoes off when you come into my house, take your damn shoes off or you're getting kicked out.
[my bolding]

When did I ever say anything different? It was my whole point, the rules are being bent, the blog post said the rules never are bent.

See for yourself:
On December 14 2011 20:50 zul wrote:

Some TL forumusers said GOM bends their own rules. I disagree.


Actually: you are agreeing with me!
It is not an argument I must stress, please don't be upset.


The only thing I wrote was that I hope for more and clearer rules in the future so everyone can accurately discern what consequences an action will have.

I haven't said anything about right or wrong, as you will see reading my post one more time.
Seohyun fan
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
December 14 2011 12:19 GMT
#8
Sorry, I misread, but this is a big deal to GOM, and it really was disrespectful in every way, I don't see how you can say it wasn't. Instead of forfeiting off stage he decided to climb into the booth, and show how much of a whiny loser he was to the whole world. He needs to learn to grow up before he gets put on television.
mmp
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2130 Posts
December 14 2011 12:23 GMT
#9
Weren't both players 0-3 in a 5-enter-2-leave group?

This has nothing to do with entertaining fans. It has everything to do with disrespecting zergbong (thumbs down, probe rush, remarks).

Personally, I don't care what kind of trash talk the players bring to the game. If this were boxing, they'd be talking shit about yo mama and throwing punches before the bell ever rang.

Very unprofessional on GOM's part.
I (λ (foo) (and (<3 foo) ( T_T foo) (RAGE foo) )) Starcraft
dakalro
Profile Joined September 2010
Romania525 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:37:43
December 14 2011 12:28 GMT
#10
On December 14 2011 20:50 zul wrote:
I am reading so many comments hating on GOM TV for punishing Naniwa for his „game“ versus Nestea and it seems like a lot of people don`t understand why this decision was made. I`m sure many of you still go to school or university and probably have no real job. But when you have a real job, you just have to do your work. Even in moments that can be described as mentally difficult. I know this is hard. That`s one reason why you get paid for it.

Naniwa knew the rules before he entered the tournament. He knew that if he would go 0:3 he still would have to play a 4th game, because GOMTV wants to broadcast every match. GOMTV is selling tickets and for them to be successful, they need to serve the highest quality in production and games. Naniwa refused to do his part, even though he agree to all the terms by entering the competition in the first place and therefore GOM got in trouble.

“During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours “ (GOM TV rule)

Some TL forumusers said GOM bends their own rules. I disagree. Nestea, who had his birthday one day before the match, did not celebrate it, but trained all day. GOMTV wanted to show games between the best players in the world. Fans tuned in (some of them even bought tickets just to see Naniwa, their favorite player, play) to be amazed by their idols skill. By not playing the game, but a-clicking 7 probes to Nesteas base, Naniwa was literally showing the fuckfinger to everyone. Clearly stating: I don`t care about any of you.

Money does not grow on trees! Sometimes I wonder how little some “pro”gamers know about their own industry. Being a professional Gamer needs more than just training inside the game. You need to be able to give at least “ok” interviews and satisfy your sponsors. You need to have a mentally stable mind. You need to have a vision for your own future. You need to cooperate with other parts of the industry. You need to be able to swallow down pride and pain and just do what is demanded of you.

Being a progamer sounds amazing. You travel around the globe and meet all kinds of people. You make a ton of experience in just a few years. You make money by playing a game. You get a lot of fans. BUT not everything is sweet. Like in every other job there will be times where you don`t want to do certain things. These situations will divide the masses. Some players will only be able to play “when they want to” and not “when they have to” and that´s why the huge majority will always remain amateurs, while only very few will actually become professional gamers.

I want to close this blog with some wise words from the BossToss himself.

“@oGsMC: I was really lost for words after watching today's game. Does he even know what the word "pro" is? My role model for professionalism is White-Ra. He really loves his fans, and doesn't give up his games until the end, and he's very mannered towards everyone. Does anyone dislike White-Ra?

I hope Naniwa can look at White-Ra and change his mentality. I don't think it's right to do that, not considering your opponent at all. I wish he'd think about how he would have felt if I had gone 3-0 and confirmed #1 in my group, and he was 0-3, and I thought that since I'm 1st place nothing matters and just GG'd out of my game against him.

Well, if you there's no big deal because there's no money on the the line, then I can't say anything to that, you're just not a pro. After seeing Naniwa, I thought HerO was all the more awesome for being so upset about losing his games yesterday.
“ (taken from Waxangels twitter blog)


I've been working for the better part of the last 8 years so find your post offensive and nothing more than personal opinion. Don't bring your view of a workplace as an argument.

He offended viewers and players but that was NOT abusive behaviour. It's just what they could find to kick him out, probably due to complaints from Korean teams.

The removal of the seed simply doesn't stand and it should be reverted and a new rule added but for now he did nothing against the rules.

Terminated GOMTV account.
forSeohyun
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
504 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:30:52
December 14 2011 12:29 GMT
#11
On December 14 2011 21:19 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Sorry, I misread, but this is a big deal to GOM, and it really was disrespectful in every way, I don't see how you can say it wasn't. Instead of forfeiting off stage he decided to climb into the booth, and show how much of a whiny loser he was to the whole world. He needs to learn to grow up before he gets put on television.


I didn't say that it wasn't, I have accepted his punishment and think GSL was in the right to do so but:

1. I would like clearer and more rules, at the very least it would take away the "I didn't know"-defense. Could we agree on that?

2. I think it is a bit harsh punishment as it stands, maybe there will be some clarifications from GSL, but I think that a written statement should be given with what the punishment is and why.

For all I know maybe Naniwa got a Code A-seed instead or knocked down to the up and down-bracket, at this point I haven't seen any official statements from GSL.

So, I'm fine with Naniwa being punished but the way the affair is being handled isn't optimal, I'm sure a lot of drama could have been avoided if only the proper channels were used in a timely fashion.
Seohyun fan
chokke
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway228 Posts
December 14 2011 12:30 GMT
#12
If anything. GOM should arrange a showmatch between NesTea and Naniwa. If fans wanted to see a grudgematch, make them enter with the mindset that the winning actually matters.
It's like telling a painter you want to buy a picture, but that you will burn it right after you got it. Do you think he will put in a full artistic effort?
Tppz!
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1449 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:33:16
December 14 2011 12:30 GMT
#13
I think a lot of people misunderstand one thing:

They call it an match that shouldnt be played.
But actually it was one of the matches ppl were looking forward the most. Even when they were both out of the tournament it still was a grudgematch and a chance for Nestea to get his revenge on Naniwa.

And even then they didnt only play for this, they played for the audience, GOMTV/GSL and for themself to get new fans or show some fun.

Im completly fine with Genius doing a 2 base Carrierbuild in GSL when he is already out but he wants to make it remarkable. He just won sooo many fans by doing this and the ppl who watched it were very pleased. Naniwa only lost fans (should have) and feeded the haters and pissed on GOMTVs leg. I cant believe he did this without thinking about getting a penalty.
Well he got away with a lot fo stuff in the past month but he finally got what he deserved - a penalty. Even though I think it was too harsh its great to see him running against a wall with his disrespectful attitude he is showing every moment he can.

We like bad boys. But we dont like badboys that dont know where to stop



On December 14 2011 21:30 chokke wrote:
If anything. GOM should arrange a showmatch between NesTea and Naniwa. If fans wanted to see a grudgematch, make them enter with the mindset that the winning actually matters.
It's like telling a painter you want to buy a picture, but that you will burn it right after you got it. Do you think he will put in a full artistic effort?


Winning always matters. Especially in that match it mattered a lot. Nestea wanted his revenge and Naniwa had the oppurtunity to prove himself in korea. And that his invite to the tournament wasnt a bad decision. He could have prove to win a match vs one of the best zergs but he declined cause he only saw the tournament and doesnt care about anything else but this.
nekoconeco
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia359 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:37:20
December 14 2011 12:35 GMT
#14
On December 14 2011 20:50 zul wrote:
I am reading so many comments hating on GOM TV for punishing Naniwa for his „game“ versus Nestea and it seems like a lot of people don`t understand why this decision was made.


That is simply because GomTV made an unprecedented decision with no public explanation.

On December 14 2011 20:50 zul wrote:But when you have a real job, you just have to do your work. Even in moments that can be described as mentally difficult. I know this is hard. That`s one reason why you get paid for it.


He did the work he just didn't do it very well. In other words he implemented a strategy that has an almost zero chance of winning. But you are acting like he just never entered the booth at all. He upheld his obligation to enter the booth and play out the game which he did. He owes GomTV nothing more than that.

On December 14 2011 20:50 zul wrote:Naniwa knew the rules before he entered the tournament. He knew that if he would go 0:3 he still would have to play a 4th game, because GOMTV wants to broadcast every match. GOMTV is selling tickets and for them to be successful, they need to serve the highest quality in production and games. Naniwa refused to do his part, even though he agree to all the terms by entering the competition in the first place and therefore GOM got in trouble.


Actually GOMTV doesn't always make players play matches like this it is called a dead rubber in tennis and is not taken seriously in most sports. Do they make players play 3 games in every Bo3? No.

On December 14 2011 20:50 zul wrote:“During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours “ (GOM TV rule)


He didn't offend his opponent or the audience so he did not break this rule at all. Actually it is the other rule about acting like a professional that people believe he broke.

Fans tuned in (some of them even bought tickets just to see Naniwa, their favorite player, play) to be amazed by their idols skill. By not playing the game, but a-clicking 7 probes to Nesteas base, Naniwa was literally showing the fuckfinger to everyone. Clearly stating: I don`t care about any of you.


If you watch enough matches you should know that this match was going to be a farce (any match that is meaningless like this will be). I don't know why you think otherwise but I started reading a book before it started since I knew it would be crappy.

Money does not grow on trees! Sometimes I wonder how little some “pro”gamers know about their own industry. Being a professional Gamer needs more than just training inside the game. You need to be able to give at least “ok” interviews and satisfy your sponsors. You need to have a mentally stable mind. You need to have a vision for your own future. You need to cooperate with other parts of the industry. You need to be able to swallow down pride and pain and just do what is demanded of you.


Just like in every other sport... oh wait not really. How professional was Tyson when he bit off Evander Holyfield's ear, or McEnroe yelling abuse at the umpire, or the brawls in almost every Rugby match. Not everyone can be like White-Ra I am not a Naniwa fan but I want him to stay true to his personality. So many sc2 players are really reserved and don't say or do what they feel like. We need people like Naniwa and Idra to provide the drama and negative energy at times. Sport is about passion please don't try to take that away. Players aren't puppets that will give their best for meaningless matches for no money at all.

Some people think Naniwa should have just faked it, but that is not Naniwa's way. I actually respect him for that even though I wouldn't have done the same.
My Photoshop stream (requests welcome) --> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304143
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:38:57
December 14 2011 12:37 GMT
#15
On December 14 2011 21:29 StatorFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:19 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Sorry, I misread, but this is a big deal to GOM, and it really was disrespectful in every way, I don't see how you can say it wasn't. Instead of forfeiting off stage he decided to climb into the booth, and show how much of a whiny loser he was to the whole world. He needs to learn to grow up before he gets put on television.


I didn't say that it wasn't, I have accepted his punishment and think GSL was in the right to do so but:

1. I would like clearer and more rules, at the very least it would take away the "I didn't know"-defense. Could we agree on that?

2. I think it is a bit harsh punishment as it stands, maybe there will be some clarifications from GSL, but I think that a written statement should be given with what the punishment is and why.

For all I know maybe Naniwa got a Code A-seed instead or knocked down to the up and down-bracket, at this point I haven't seen any official statements from GSL.

So, I'm fine with Naniwa being punished but the way the affair is being handled isn't optimal, I'm sure a lot of drama could have been avoided if only the proper channels were used in a timely fashion.

Yeah, I can understand that seeing as how foreigners are so split on this and it's between two extremes. However, realize that 95% of the koreans are not split on this and that they are pissed. He actually really got off easy. "Mistake" or not, they see him as having a shitty attitude/personality in general after that game and shouldn't be playing in their tournament.

Also, come on. It's naniwa. This isn't one honest mistake here, this is karma catching up with him for all the stuff he's gotten away with.
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
December 14 2011 12:38 GMT
#16
On December 14 2011 21:30 chokke wrote:
If anything. GOM should arrange a showmatch between NesTea and Naniwa. If fans wanted to see a grudgematch, make them enter with the mindset that the winning actually matters.
It's like telling a painter you want to buy a picture, but that you will burn it right after you got it. Do you think he will put in a full artistic effort?


That analogy doesn't make sense at all.
It would be better to say to ask a painter to make a painting to be showed to people but he won't get paid for it. Some artists might refuse or put to effort in the painting then but many artists would want to remain their artistic integrity and do a fine job at it anyway (despite being not as good when paid).
Nani's behaviour has been terrible on multiple occasions already and it was time he got punished for it. I don't even think he does it on purpose, I think he is just too careless or too ignorant to think about the consequences of some of his behaviour. He might not even mean it in a bad way but he should realize how offending some of his actions come over to others. As a professional he should have learned how to behave while performing his sport, if he can't he deserves penalties for it.
High level sports are for the fans and paid by the fans.
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
December 14 2011 12:43 GMT
#17
On December 14 2011 21:35 nekoconeco wrote:

Just like in every other sport... oh wait not really. How professional was Tyson when he bit off Evander Holyfield's ear, or McEnroe yelling abuse at the umpire, or the brawls in almost every Rugby match. Not everyone can be like White-Ra I am not a Naniwa fan but I want him to stay true to his personality. So many sc2 players are really reserved and don't say or do what they feel like. We need people like Naniwa and Idra to provide the drama and negative energy at times. Sport is about passion please don't try to take that away. Players aren't puppets that will give their best for meaningless matches for no money at all.

Some people think Naniwa should have just faked it, but that is not Naniwa's way. I actually respect him for that even though I wouldn't have done the same.


Right.. and Tyson got punished heavily for his actions. McEnroe has also been punished multiple times... You don't have to sportsmanlike if you don't want too but you must realize it has consequences too. For some people it builds their character and helps them like in McEnroe's case, who only acted that way on court by the way.
chokke
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway228 Posts
December 14 2011 12:46 GMT
#18
On December 14 2011 21:30 Tppz! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:30 chokke wrote:
If anything. GOM should arrange a showmatch between NesTea and Naniwa. If fans wanted to see a grudgematch, make them enter with the mindset that the winning actually matters.
It's like telling a painter you want to buy a picture, but that you will burn it right after you got it. Do you think he will put in a full artistic effort?


Winning always matters. Especially in that match it mattered a lot. Nestea wanted his revenge and Naniwa had the oppurtunity to prove himself in korea. And that his invite to the tournament wasnt a bad decision. He could have prove to win a match vs one of the best zergs but he declined cause he only saw the tournament and doesnt care about anything else but this.

Even if he won, lost or whatever using a proxy-gate, 4-gate, some 1-base all-in and won/lost, people would use the excuse that it wouldn't count and so on. People are saying ladder-games don't matter because nothing is on the line, well, that was what it was, a game with nothing on the line.
So just with the up&down, games that doesn't affect the outcome shouldn't be played.

And if there such a need for "epic grudgematch xD" between NesTea and Naniwa, it should be arranged as an isolated event, not a lucky outcome in groupplay where they play their last match against eachother (especially not when the outcome was like this).
forSeohyun
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
504 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:48:21
December 14 2011 12:46 GMT
#19
On December 14 2011 21:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:29 StatorFlux wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:19 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Sorry, I misread, but this is a big deal to GOM, and it really was disrespectful in every way, I don't see how you can say it wasn't. Instead of forfeiting off stage he decided to climb into the booth, and show how much of a whiny loser he was to the whole world. He needs to learn to grow up before he gets put on television.


I didn't say that it wasn't, I have accepted his punishment and think GSL was in the right to do so but:

1. I would like clearer and more rules, at the very least it would take away the "I didn't know"-defense. Could we agree on that?

2. I think it is a bit harsh punishment as it stands, maybe there will be some clarifications from GSL, but I think that a written statement should be given with what the punishment is and why.

For all I know maybe Naniwa got a Code A-seed instead or knocked down to the up and down-bracket, at this point I haven't seen any official statements from GSL.

So, I'm fine with Naniwa being punished but the way the affair is being handled isn't optimal, I'm sure a lot of drama could have been avoided if only the proper channels were used in a timely fashion.

Yeah, I can understand that seeing as how foreigners are so split on this and it's between two extremes. However, realize that 95% of the koreans are not split on this and that they are pissed. He actually really got off easy. "Mistake" or not, they see him as having a shitty attitude/personality in general after that game and shouldn't be playing in their tournament.

Also, come on. It's naniwa. This isn't one honest mistake here, this is karma catching up with him for all the stuff he's gotten away with.


In my eyes the reactions are threefold:
1. Those who is uncritical Naniwa-fans
2. Those who are (more or less) justly very critical of him
3. People in the middle

I'd like to subscribe to number 3, I don't get how he can be unconditionally defended by his fans but I don't agree he should be lambasted either. That he should be punished in some capacity I definitely am for.

True, it can be a good thing for him that a limit is drawn finally.

Even better if all the cards are on the table, written down statements of the charge, the evidence and the punishment;
if he has notions of being treated unfairly they should disappear in face of overwhelming evidence and probably force him to change.

Finally I wish that foreign viewers would get timely information what is happening over there, I think less people would blast GSL if so were and that would be in everyone's best interest.

Wasn't the information much better surrounding the Coca/Byun-incident?
Seohyun fan
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
December 14 2011 12:49 GMT
#20
I think the information is pretty clear on this one. In any case, people need to be punished, and in the end this is a much better experience for him than getting away with a warning so long as he realized what he did was wrong. I hope to god he doesn't think it's not his fault and he just goes on continuing to do shit the way he does because he will not last a year that way.
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