• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:31
CEST 03:31
KST 10:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 231ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon415.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch5[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation0
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) 5.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Snow On New ASL S22 Map, Zerg Nerf BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Starcraft vs Retro Category on Twitch
Tourneys
IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4! CSLAN 4 is Coming! Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2026! ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4675 users

The Resurrection of Quake

Blogs > Newbistic
Post a Reply
Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
November 28 2011 16:27 GMT
#1
I have too much time on my hands.

Long nights have been spent thinking about Quake, how it is dying, how it would be a shame for such a venerable franchise to be killed. Quake 4 certainly didn't help things with its lack of originality. Quake Live pushed the Quake 3 to the limits, but after 11 years even all the improvements can't keep the game from stagnating.

So here's what I would do in Quake 5, given a lot of resources, to significantly revamp the series.

Part I: Single Player

Time hasn't been kind to Quake's simplistic single player design. It's basically a series of levels where you shoot everything that moves tied together with a weak story. Storytelling and game design has moved leaps and bounds since the first Quake came out. Quake 4's campaign looked like it took a lot of time to make, with its voice acting and large number of unique models, but it was resources wasted on dated game design.

[image loading]
Oh look, a gun that shoots lightning. How original... 15 years ago.

What I propose is to have a single player that's completely different from the multiplayer, much like what Blizzard did with WoL's campaign. Instead of traveling through linear levels strafing and shooting dumb AI enemies in the face, we can have a single massive labyrinth that the player has to go through. Players explore the dungeon trying to pick up weapons, ammunition, and other things such as expanded health/armor/ammunition capacity to grow their character as they face stronger enemies deeper in the dungeon. Think Metroid Prime type exploration with faster movement and rocket jumps. Design-wise, this type of campaign would offer several advantages.

One big advantage is that this type of level design would take full advantage of Quake's robust movement system. Levels can be made with ledges and platforms that provide incentives for players to learn multiplayer techniques such as strafe jumping, rocket jumping, plasma climbs, etc. Secret areas reward players who have mastered these mechanics and can put them to good use. Various surfaces can be designed to facilitate certain types of movements, such as walls that allow for higher rocket jumps and so on. Quake's movement system also facilitates speed running, which is a common feature in Metroid-type games. If anything, Quake's movement system is even better suited for Metroid type games than the Prime series themselves, since it allows for more dynamic, fluid combat. It's surprising no one has tried this yet given the success of the Prime games.

[image loading]
Space jump is for pansies. I just shoot myself in the foot with a rocket launcher.

Another advantage is that such a campaign can offer a lot of diversity for bored gamers. The dungeon can be partitioned into zones with their own themes much like Metroid. Areas can be "unlocked" by either placing terrain obstacles (such as requiring the rocket launcher in order to reach a high ledge) or by having doors that open in response to specific weapons fire. Boss fights can be a mixture of the usual massive boss with the single weak point and "duel bosses", which are essentially multiplayer maps that teach the player how to duel in multiplayer while they're playing single player. Simple, rewarding, unobtrusive.

Finally, this type of single player campaign allows for potential sequence breaking, which is IMO one of the most exciting aspects of Metroid type games. Sequence breaking is when one exploits the physics engine of a game to reach areas of the game sooner than the game designer has intended, opening up access to powerful weapons sooner than intended and thus increasing the number of ways a game can be replayed. This type of beneficial oversight has lent longevity to some of the best games of its type such as Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. Of course, in order to do this, designers must purposefully not include "invisible barriers" in their game whose sole purpose is to bar players from accessing areas that look accessible, but actually aren't.

Part II: Multiplayer

This is the difficult part. Quake's multiplayer is the epitome of fast-paced competitive FPS. How do you improve on something that's practically perfect already? Well, if we looked at Quake 4, dumbing the combat down certainly isn't the solution. The most promising solution then is to shift the game the other way: to make it even more frantic and fast paced.


No, not like this

When designing the sequel to any "legendary" competitive game (Quake, Brood War, Counter-Strike), one must always keep in mind the highest echelon of competition. These are the players who will charge out the gate of any new game and still be the most skilled. They will be the first to exploit all possible facets of the game, to abuse the most broken aspects of a game, "figure the game out". Games that are "figured out" tend to stagnate and die. Therefore, it is the job of the designer to shake things up as much as they can to hold the highest echelon of players at bay to prolong the life of their game.

To "shake things up" in Quake, obviously slowing things down is not the way to go. Professional players are already able to make insane rail shots with a flick of their mouse. But making the game too fast would also be detrimental. It would raise both the maximum skill ceiling and also raise the initial learning curve of the game for newer players to discouraging levels. Here are a few ideas:

1) Increased verticality, as well as methods and incentives to change altitudes. Quake 3 already has a lot of verticality in its levels, but we can do better. Verticality helps increase the skill ceiling by adding larger areas for players to attack and be attacked. Players will need to aim both vertically and horizontally to frag their enemies. Additional weapons and mechanics can be used to help players get to these higher places. One easy change is to reduce the self-splash damage done by rockets, allowing for more frequent rocket jumps.

2) Player imbalances. In all the earlier Quake games, players could change their skins, but the basic character that everyone uses has the same movement, health, and armor. Quake can easily diversify this by providing various different customizations with pros and cons such as more armor vs more health, bigger/smaller ammo capacity, movement speed, etc. Even if eventually professional players figure out which character types are definitively the best at the highest level, the diversity can still help elongate the game's shelf life among casual players.

3) "Casual" game modes that allow players to duel with their souped-up single player characters. Again, this is to cater to the casual gaming community and give them something fun to do while providing more replay incentive to the single player campaign.

These are just some of the things that can help create a focused, fun, and fresh multiplayer without having to resort to gimmicks such as vehicles (I personally don't like vehicles, since vehicle game modes tend to distract players from the core game play like DOTA does with WC3. Maybe resources can be made available to modders to create their own vehicle modes, but packaging vehicles with the game to begin with would be like... if DOTA came with WC3 from day one). And hopefully it'll stump the progamers for a long time too to keep the e-sports scene alive.

*****
Logic is Overrated
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
November 28 2011 17:14 GMT
#2
What about maps? If we had like seasons in Quake 5 and rotating maps, then it would keep the game dynamic, making the pros having to learn new maps all the time.
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
November 28 2011 18:06 GMT
#3
I love quake. There's very few games that excite me as much as quake does. I would kill to have this game make a come back!
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
November 28 2011 20:15 GMT
#4
Unfortunately the only way to have games really push on these days commercially and bring people into it is to dumb it down, Games with high learning curves and the fact that attempts to evolve them were done badly kinda means your Halo, COD generation wont be picking these over the new Modern warfare. Its a sad truth
beg
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
991 Posts
November 28 2011 22:35 GMT
#5
i agree with your singleplayer idea. sounds amazing. the other ideas sound rather irrelevant. i doubt they would change much.




i have another idea:

inbuilt online ladder, like battle.net. i suggested this for QL during the beta a few times, but no mod ever commented on it :/





maybe good singleplayer and a ladder is all that quake needs
Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
November 29 2011 03:25 GMT
#6
On November 29 2011 02:14 amazingxkcd wrote:
What about maps? If we had like seasons in Quake 5 and rotating maps, then it would keep the game dynamic, making the pros having to learn new maps all the time.


That would be great too, although that may be more maintenance than id is willing to keep up with/afford. They can set up a fan map system like Blizzard custom maps, although that risks the danger of having people simply end up recreating old Quake 3 maps, thus returning the competitive scene into stagnation.

i agree with your singleplayer idea. sounds amazing. the other ideas sound rather irrelevant. i doubt they would change much.

On November 29 2011 05:15 Rebs wrote:
Unfortunately the only way to have games really push on these days commercially and bring people into it is to dumb it down, Games with high learning curves and the fact that attempts to evolve them were done badly kinda means your Halo, COD generation wont be picking these over the new Modern warfare. Its a sad truth


Well, kinda. StarCraft 2 shows you can have a game with a steep learning curve and still have a wide number of players. Two other important factors are shiny graphics (something id has absolutely no problems with) and the fact that StarCraft 2's online content is absolutely free allowing gamers to play how they want. Quake Live's wonky pricing system keeping a huge number of maps out of free users' hands really helped kill the game.

The Quake franchise is at an interesting crossroads because while the brand still carries huge prestige, it no longer carries the "too big to fail" kind of prestige that CoD and Halo arguably have, in that if the new Quake is a rehash of the older Quakes, it WILL sell poorly. So innovative gameplay and shiny graphics will still be able to carry the day, even if the core gameplay isn't "dumbed down".

On November 29 2011 07:35 beg wrote:
i agree with your singleplayer idea. sounds amazing. the other ideas sound rather irrelevant. i doubt they would change much.

maybe good singleplayer and a ladder is all that quake needs


Yeah, I kind of ran out of steam at the multiplayer part and didn't sell those ideas very well...

But I do think id absolutely has to switch up the gameplay. The rocket launcher, shotgun, and lightning gun have stayed nearly the same weapons since Quake 1. They can't just include these same weapons without doing major revamping in other areas of the game.
Logic is Overrated
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
November 29 2011 04:19 GMT
#7
constant rotating maps isn't really feasible because it's so hard to design a good duel map
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Crank Gathers S4: Group Stage
CranKy Ducklings SOOP105
CranKy Ducklings96
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
17:00
Mid Season Playoffs
Krystianer vs IbaLIVE!
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ViBE231
SpeCial 185
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3521
GuemChi 2987
Artosis 573
NaDa 41
Britney 0
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm125
Counter-Strike
summit1g9490
Coldzera 904
taco 172
minikerr37
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox326
Other Games
Day[9].tv1289
shahzam586
JimRising 423
C9.Mang0377
Maynarde133
Temp046
Mew2King46
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick32865
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2947
Other Games
• Day9tv1289
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 29m
CrankTV Team League
9h 29m
OSC
11h 29m
Big Brain Bouts
14h 29m
Replay Cast
22h 29m
RSL Revival
1d 7h
Serral vs Bunny
ByuN vs GgMaChine
CranKy Ducklings
1d 8h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 8h
Snow vs Jaedong
YSC vs hero
RSL Revival
2 days
Solar vs Rogue
Maru vs NightMare
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
Escore Tournament S3: W2
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Heroes Pulsing #3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

ASL Season 22: Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.