• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 02:46
CET 08:46
KST 16:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners10Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Learning my new SC2 hotkey…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1684 users

Back in Diamond - Page 3

Blogs > Belial88
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Forlorn
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)69 Posts
November 07 2011 06:57 GMT
#41
I have a very similar story. I didn't like the NA server that much, everyone I played was so cheesy and really bm. People on NA have huge egos. I was master's in s3 but had a horrible w/l record and didn't really care. I was mostly focusing on my KR account and trying to make it into diamond there. S4 came out and I finally made diamond on KR but at the same time I got demoted to diamond on NA.

I can honestly say, the people in diamond on NA are absolutely horrible. It feels like they can't multitask at all. Often times I just have to defend their one attack and the game is basically over. I find a lot of them stick to only two base play and don't take thirds or they take their thirds way too late. I also completely agree that most of them do not have well defined build orders. I was honestly surprised by the sort of 'free style' play I've seen.

Most of my strategies for ZvP or ZvT involve holding off their first attack, getting fast upgrades, getting to 200 supply, getting tons of larvae and then just trading armies equally with them and just instant remaxing and overwhelming them.

For ZvZ, I used to be absolutely horrible at zvz. I tried hatch first builds a lot but I could never get the hang of it. I always seemed to die to 14/14 banelings or to 10 pools. I now am going with 14g13p build into baneling pressure and expanding behind it. I feel this build is a lot safer. I also am not making roaches in zvz and I love this new playstyle. Upgrading carapace first makes it so your lings don't die to one baneling. I go heavy upgraded lings/blings and slow tech into spire. If they go fast spire then I just win with my counter attack.

Currently I am 18 - 5 on NA and still not promoted back to masters and 14-4 on KR and I am high diamond there.
Hi
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-07 22:13:43
November 07 2011 22:13 GMT
#42
14/14 bane can be a lot of pressure, but you shouldn't die to it (you will if you crucially are late on your first overlord, something i did a few times when getting back into things, yesterday i lost to it on my first game in the morning because i totally forgot the overlord). You should be getting a baneling nest before speed against 14/14, whereas 14/14 will get speed first, so you will have banes earlier.

10 pool 8 drone all-in (nestea's anti hatch first build) and 10 pool bane (check does this) will autowin against hatch first (im afraid even a platinum doing it will autowin), but if someone does a 10 pool without pulling drones or getting banes, you will just end up even (or very much ahead due to faster hatch, but they should be expanding and forcing you to waste even more econ by at least following up with speed or banes). Although I don't know why you wouldn't pull 8 drones or get banes if you scouted hatch first when you went 10 pool though, but I guess a lot of people just don't know that, even those above diamond.

If it's 11 pool though, you'll win, especially overlord first into 11pool, like overpool builds.

You should try 14/14 instead of 14/13. 14/14 is better than any earlier pool (including 14/13) and safe against it, and both are too late against any hatch firsts. I actually think that something like 16g/17p would be a better build than 14/14, because you'll still beat earlier pools, you'll beat 14/14, and you won't be as far behind against hatch first, but of course that's just theorycraft. I don't understand why the convention is 14/14 though, I think you can get away with something like 15/15 and you'll still laugh off earlier pools.

I think not making roaches in ZvZ is the 'correct' way to play, but being where I was, I was having actually a lot of games where I was 4+ bases in a ZvZ, containing my zerg opponent, and knowing full well he was going roach/infestor or roach/hydra/infestor, and then he'd push at the 20 minute mark and I'd die. Some of the times I even had ultra tech, but I would never have ultras assembled, i would just die with 2-3 ultras in my army and about 8 more just coming in one by one as he killed off my bases. I learned that while roach/hydra gets owned by muta/ling (you just get speedbanes to counter hydras, and get more mutas), roach/infestor is a totally different story.

It's like, okay, I see hydras, I respond with speed banes. Then they get infestors and it's like WHOA total change, you have to drop what you are doing and just respond with a bigger roach/infestor army. Now if they go Roach/hydra/infestor on 3 base, then sure, you go ultralisks. But if they go roach with infestors on 2 base because you contained them, no amount of ling/bane/muta will kill it, you just have to go roach/infestor.

So I learned that while you always go mutas, if the opponent is stuck on 2 bases and is dumb enough to be going roach/infestor with no spire opener, you just get your own roach/infestor and beat them with a huge macro lead, since if the other player doesn't open spire in ZvZ it's basically an autowin. I think that the proper response if they go roach/hydra is to get speedbanes, but you have to scout a lot to make sure no infestors are coming. Which is fine, you know, I just wasn't sure what to do against roach/hydra/infestor, and now I know.

I also used to think, recently, that whoever went spire first wins, and now I know that whoever goes spire later, actually usually wins, because they will get more mutas. The thing is, is if the opponent goes faster spire than you, you have to get spores to defend and maybe even speed overlords so you dont getblocked. But, if you can survive long enough, with your huge macro lead you'll pop 2x as many mutas, and then push him back. You just can't die in the process. That was something I had to learn, because a short while I was going like 30 supply mutas on 2 base, popping 6 of them, and not doing any damage and then getting overrun by their mutas.

I'm sure you'll get masters soon enough in NA (if you want it). I think I've learned what I needed to know and am just winning all my games, no more silly stuff and no more forgetting my bo's lol.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Catgroove
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden67 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-11 00:05:21
November 11 2011 00:05 GMT
#43
On November 07 2011 06:37 Belial88 wrote:
If you don't like my blog, than don't read it. It's where I'm at, a midmasters who's in diamond. I'm just posting saying I'm surprised by what I see in a league I was just in, and what I'm doing with the... opportunity, that I have.


How the fuck are we suppose to know if we like it if we're not allowed to read it first?

"dont like it dont read it"-comments are so fucking stupid.
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 14m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 173
NeuroSwarm 152
StarCraft: Brood War
Zeus 578
Soma 119
PianO 99
soO 51
League of Legends
JimRising 577
Reynor45
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 289
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King313
Other Games
summit1g20377
fl0m590
WinterStarcraft514
Hui .114
Models4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick661
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1633
• HappyZerGling155
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 14m
Wardi Open
4h 14m
Wardi Open
8h 14m
Replay Cast
15h 14m
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 4h
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
BSL 21
6 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.