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[GSL] Ultimate Viewer's Guide

Blogs > confusedcrib
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 06:28:06
November 02 2011 00:47 GMT
#1
In an effort to get myself to watch more GSL, I will be putting this together for other viewers. I hope it helps you decide how to best allocate your limited Starcraft viewing time

There are spoilers


_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Code S Round of 32
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Code S Group A: (P)MC, (T)Ryung, (Z)YuGiOh, (T)MMA - VOD

Group A Summary: MC and MMA advance, Ryung and YugiOh out. YugiOh showed great macro but terrible late game decision making. MC showed off his bold build choices. And MMA got to dominate everyone; generally the MMA games were the good ones

+ Show Spoiler [Ratings and Summaries] +
(T)MMA vs. (Z)YuGiOh

Reaper expand vs. Hatch first. Reaper double expand with fast tank :O into double e bay with 3 barracks, Yugioh macro up muta ling infestor, bane later. Brilliant timing by MMA to clear out creep and position for third.

Learning for T:
[image loading]
9/10
Learning for Z:
[image loading]
6/10
Entertainment Value:
[image loading]
8.5/10
Overall value: If you have time it is a great match, with MMA showing the star player difference,

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
MMA



(P)MC vs. (T)Ryung

Maka rax vs. 3 gate expand, interesting marine maurader tank all in vs. standard 3 gate expand into robo, goes up to 6 gate after scout.

Learning for P:
[image loading]
9/10
Learning for T:
[image loading]
2/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
1/10
Overall: Great opportunity to learn the nuances of early game protoss, but otherwise you can skip it

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
MC


(P)MC vs. (T)MMA

1 rax FE into fast double gas vs. 1 gate FE, MMA safely ghost rushes and double ups after MC's delayed 4 gate fails, brilliant follow up. MC realizes he is behind and goes 7 gate zealot archon all in.

Learn for T:
[image loading]
8.5/10
Learn for P:
[image loading]
4/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Cool build to steal from MMA, worth watching if you have time

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
MMA


(T)Ryung vs. (Z)YuGiOh

Very technical macro opening from Ryung and strong macro from YugiOh, Excellent gas allocation, not making banelings for no reason, spending intelligently on upgrades. Great macro, bad strategical choices, sloppy late game execution.

Learning for T:
[image loading]
6/10
Learning for Z:
[image loading]
3/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
4/10
Overall: Long and boring, skip it

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
Ryung


(P)MC vs. (T)Ryung

MC scouts CC first, super pressure, 3 gate expand, kill him with it.

Learning for P:
[image loading]
8.5/10
Learning for T:
[image loading]
2/5
Entertainment Value:
[image loading]
6/10
Overall: Pretty straightforward, if you're not learning protoss, skip it

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
MC




______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Code S Group B: (Z)NesTea, (Z)LosirA, (T)sC, (T)asd - VOD

Group B Summary: Nestea and sC advance, Losira and asd out. Losira vs. Nestea is a must watch game for high level zerg players, as this may easily be the future of ZvZ at the top level. Nestea played amazingly, and this group was really who could cheese him the most, and the winner was sC

+ Show Spoiler [Ratings and Summaries] +
(Z)NesTea vs. (T)sC

This game literally made me laugh. Nestea is an incredible genius and made sC look like he was in the bronze league. That being said, occasionally the worse player still wins.

Learning for Z:
[image loading]
8/10
Learning for T:
[image loading]
3/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Very fun game even though it's cheesy - short and sweet

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
sC


(Z)LosirA vs. (T)asd

CC first vs. Hatch first. Smart cute roach style does a lot of damage. Losira knew he was far enough ahead and went for a nice baneling bust in response.

Learning for Z:
[image loading]
8/10
Learning for T:
[image loading]
2/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
7/10
Overall: Smart play, but kind of boring to watch if you're not learning Zerg

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
Losira


(T)sC vs. (Z)LosirA

Double expand gas before pool??? vs. CC first. Losira was just a tad too greedy and sC hit an amazing timing to take the game

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
7/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
9/10
Entertainment Value:
[image loading]
7/10
Overall: sC just hits brutal macro timings, it's the kind of game you want to fastforward to the timing push to see if you're not trying to learn it.

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
sC


(Z)NesTea vs. (T)asd

asd went for the mass hellion all in, and Nestea barely held it and even came out ahead despite not having roaches. Transitioning into a macro game, Nestea showed himself the superior player with his excellent army movement and map control.

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
9/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
1/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Probably the best game of group B to watch, Nestea is a very strong player

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
Nestea


(Z)NesTea vs. (Z)LosirA

In what might be the future of ZvZ, Nestea held a roach ling all in while getting a third base and going muta

To learn from:
[image loading]
10/10 - but good luck executing it
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Must watch for ZvZ fans, but otherwise it's less amazing

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
Nestea


.


______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Code S Group C: (T)MVP, (Z)Curious, (T)MarineKing, (T)aLive - VOD

Group C Summary: aLive and Mvp advance, MarineKing and Curious don't. Mvp vs. aLive was the quintessential TvT, a great game to watch, and aLive vs. curious was an entertaining game. This group was very interesting, a nice mix of cheese and macro games, overall a cool group.

+ Show Spoiler [Ratings and Summaries] +
(T)MVP vs. (T)aLive

Banshee expand vs. expand 1-1-1. Insanely good TvT, the quintessential version of the matchup. Perfect game to learn from.

To learn for T:
[image loading]
10/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Excellent game to learn TvT from, shows how solid the meta game is. Watch it if you're at all interested in TvT

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
Mvp


(Z)Curious vs. (T)MarineKing

MKP did a cute little timing that only won because it was so well executed. Zergies beware of this follow up to a hellion push instead of the more typical expand.

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
4/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
8/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Fun game if you don't have much time - as it is short, but not much to learn.

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
MarineKing


(T)MVP vs. (T)MarineKing

Very cool proxy marauder pressure, that looks like a hard counter to 1 rax fast expand. Very interesting

To learn for T:
[image loading]
9/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Watch it if you are a tournament player looking to hard counter 1 rax FE.

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
Mvp


(Z)Curious vs. (T)aLive

Interesting opening by aLive and Curious showed the cost and benefit of a fast teching Zerg

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
6/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
7/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
9.5/10
Overall: Very entertaining game, but only because both players made some very poor decisions - worth watching for entertainment

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
aLive


(T)MarineKing vs. (T)aLive

MarineKing attempts a bio opening, and is too far behind aLive to transition out of it. MK did not play the style correctly at all.

To learn for T:
[image loading]
6/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
6/10
Overall: What happens 90% of the time when bio goes against marine tank - skip it

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
MarineKing




______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Code S Group D: (T)GanZi, (T)Ensnare, (T)Polt, (Z)Leenock - VOD

Group D Summary: Leenock and Ganzi advance, Polt and Ensnare are out. Leenock got to show off the strength of his midgame zerg, and Ganzi got to show off some great TvT play. These games for the most part were pretty average, but they were still worth watching if you have the time.

+ Show Spoiler [Ratings and Summaries] +
(T)GanZi vs. (T)Ensnare

Ensnare attempts to go mech against GanZi's bio

To learn for T:
[image loading]
1/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
5/10
Overall: A ton of mistakes on both sides - skip it

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
Ganzi


(Z)Leenock vs. (T)Polt

Interesting game that could only play itself out on the new GSL map. Leenock was too greedy early on, and Polt demonstrated some pretty amazing Terran play

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
7/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
9/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Pretty good TvZ - worth watching if you have the time

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
Polt


(T)GanZi vs. (T)Polt

Polt executes a bio opener much better than MarineKing did earlier, but Ganzi made some better decisions to come out ahead

To learn for T:
[image loading]
8/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Good TvT - but not the best, you can afford to skip it

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
Ganzi


(Z)Leenock vs. (T)Ensnare

The game begun with an all in from Leenock, and afterwards both players were even. In then turned into a weird macro game, where Leenock proved himself the superior player with well thought out counter attacks.

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
7/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
4/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
6/10
Overall: Mediocre TvZ - Only watch if you have plenty of time

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
Leenock


(Z)Leenock vs. (T)Polt

Leenock uses counter attacking and harassment to vastly out play Polt

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
9/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
5/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Extremely strong play from Leenock, showing his mastery of midgame Zerg

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
Leenock




______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Code A Round of 48
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

(T)Keen vs. (Z)RevivaL

Summary: Come one, Come all! Watch Revival get brutally outplayed after failed cheeses! - worth watching if you have time

+ Show Spoiler [Ratings and Summaries] +
Game One

+ Show Spoiler +
This game was pretty meta. Revival went for a two base super fast baneling all in to try and punish Mvp-esque aggressive third bases that so common on a map like Calm Before the Storm. At the end of it, Keen was really too far ahead for Revival to come back, but Revival tried admirably to do it. Keen did a pretty great job holding two strong all ins without sacrificing too many workers to come out behind. Keen just did the smart play, knowing he was ahead, hitting a standard marine tank timing to easily take the win against the low tech zerg.

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
4/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
8/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Fun game to watch from the all ins, but it's a cool build to know as Terran to safely get such a fast third base - worth it if you have time


Game Two

+ Show Spoiler +
Sometimes you can watch a game where one player cheeses, and then you have to wonder if they did it because they thought they saw a vulnerability, just felt like it, or knew that their opponent was superior to them. This one of those games where Keen out plays the everlasting titties out of Revival.

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
0/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
9/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
6/10
Overall: Keen's midgame looked very fearsome, perhaps code S quality? We'll see. - watch it if you have time


(Z)YuGiOh vs. (Z)MinSeOk

Summary: Games one and two were pretty cool and worth checking out for a glimpse at what seems to be the rapidly approaching future of ZvZ

+ Show Spoiler [Ratings and Summaries] +
Game One:

+ Show Spoiler +
Huh. So this game was pretty fun. First there were about 60 drones created before unit production began. Then both players went mutas, at about the same time showing the refinement of this ZvZ style. Everything was going well until Yugioh got off a huge fungal with his slightly faster infesters than MinSeOk's, and got a ton of mutas for free. The game then transititioned into an infested terran ling midgame into an infested terran/ling/ultra late game.

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
4/10 (unless you are a high masters player, then closer to 8/10 I say that because if you try this stuff without extremely skilled timings, you will just be crushed by some timing attack of your opponent)
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Fun game to watch, but feel free to fast forward past all the droning in the beginning


Game Two:

+ Show Spoiler +
This game both players are forced to open a little bit more standard, but still go for generally the same timing on their mutalisks. MinSeOk pulled a sneaky little maneuver, and instead of upgrading melee attack, went for a ranged attack and suddenly shoved roach hydra at YuGiOh. Yugioh was set up for the more "standard" affair set by their first game and got rolled by it pretty hard.

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
8/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
7/10
Overall: Just like last game, but SeOk used some super sneakiness to come out ahead in the late midgame - maybe the future of ZvZ, worth watching


Game Three

+ Show Spoiler +
YugiOh all ins. GG!

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
2/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
4/10
Overall: skip it


(P)HerO vs. (Z)CrazymovING

Summary: Entertaining, but uneducating series - a ton of mistakes from both sides

+ Show Spoiler [Ratings and Summaries] +
Game One:
+ Show Spoiler +

Ever wonder why Blizzard is adding the Tempest in HotS? Just watch this game.

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
0/10
To learn for P:
[image loading]
0/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
9/10
Overall: MUUUUUUTTTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


Game Two:

+ Show Spoiler +
What was this I don't even? So many mistakes on both sides made for an entertaining but ultimately useless game.

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
0/10
To learn for P:
[image loading]
0/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
9/10
Overall: I have no idea what happened - skip it


Game Three:

+ Show Spoiler +
Hero showed the strength of Tyler's two gateway stargate expand build, able to execute it pretty well. The issue is that Crazymoving proved to be a weak opponent in getting rolled so hard by it.

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
0/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
6/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
7/10
Overall: Showed the strength in Tyler's opening - watch if you have time


(T)asd vs. (P)GuineaPig

Summary: Guinea Pig has a long way to go if he wants to ever wants to reach the level of hype he was at during the first GSTL. Underwhelming series that can be skipped, unless you're looking for an effective terran timing push, then you can copy asd's game one.

+ Show Spoiler +
Game One:

+ Show Spoiler +
asd did a neat little opening, delaying his upgrades and medivacs for some faster ghosts and more barracks. Guinea Pig played atrociously though, two basing for far too long, making major positioning mistakes, and floating a ton of money. Not to mention he was going chargelot, immortal, archon - the exact counter to which was asd's marine heavy MMMG composition.

To learn for P:
[image loading]
3/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
8/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
7/10
Overall: asd's opening is worth stealing - watch if you have time


Game Two:

+ Show Spoiler +
1-1-1 vs. poorly executed hold of it

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
4/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
0/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
4/10
Overall: Guinea Pig couldn't hold 1-1-1 - skip it


(Z)SUPERSTAR vs. (P)Brown

Summary: Mediocre little series, only worth watching if you have time

+ Show Spoiler +
Game One:

+ Show Spoiler +
Superstar managed to hold Brown's cute little four gate into six gate blink timing. Brown got up his third base and once collossus were out, Superstar was still only on roach ling and got rolled over as a result. An example of the very limited utility of the roach ling composition combined with Brown's cute timing attack made this a good game to learn from.

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
7/10
To learn for P:
[image loading]
8/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
7/10
Overall: Cute little strategy from Brown and example of what not to do from Superstar - watch it if you have time


Game Two:

+ Show Spoiler +
Pretty standard PvZ, it was sloppy on both sides though - both showing why they are not quite code S material through a bunch of tiny mistakes. Still - their style is solid enough to try and emulate - even if it is a little dated.

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
6/10
To learn for P:
[image loading]
6/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
6/10
Overall: Fun standard PvZ, nothing here is gonna blow your mind - watch it if you have time


(Z)Curious vs. (T)TheStC

Summary: Bread and butter TvZ's, watch 'em if you're having trouble with the matchup

+ Show Spoiler [Ratings and Summaries] +
Game One:

+ Show Spoiler +
Your bread and butter TvZ - creative aggressive opening into expansion heavy midgame with well timed thors and ghosts. stc played a solid game, it wasn't the miraculous play of Mvp, but it was good enough to appreciate

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
7/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
9/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Standard TvZ - watch it if you have time


Game Two:

+ Show Spoiler +
This one was a more new school style TvZ. An Mvp style quick double expand out of Stc with a quick rush for heavy upgrades and timing pushes beginning on three bases. I thought that he had the game for sure, but an ultralisk transition from Curious popped just in time to take the game. Very informative of the newish TvZ style

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
9/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
9/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: Must watch for those wanting to see the macro TvZ style


Game Three:

+ Show Spoiler +
Curious managed to crack the terran shell - but he had to work his ass of to do it

To learn for Z:
[image loading]
8/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
6/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
4/10
Overall: Would have been more entertaining but it was just so long - only watch if you have the time


(Z)Dream vs. (T)BoxeR

Summary: Boxer showed a much more in depth understanding of TvT than Dream did, game one is exemplary of how to play bio vs. mech

+ Show Spoiler +
Game One:

+ Show Spoiler +
Boxer demonstrates how to execute bio vs. mech properly, abusing the crap out of the map size of Calm Before the Storm. This game is really cool, with that special flare of Boxer tactics to make it entertaining as hell to watch. Who would have thought that viking + medivac drop would be a great counter to tank armies

To learn for T:
[image loading]
9/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
Overall: The demonstration to watch of where mech is right now compared to bio - great match overall


Game Two:

+ Show Spoiler +
Boxer demonstrated the fragility of the mass blue flame hellion operner of times past by walking across the map with three tanks and winning

To learn for T:
[image loading]
5/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
5/10
Overall: The mass hellion opener was really only seen at pro levels - it wasn't usually seen on the ladder - so this is a hard game to recommend


(T)TOP vs. (Z)Parting

Summary: Standard of all standard TvP's, nothing remarkable from either side.

+ Show Spoiler +
Game One:

+ Show Spoiler +
Despite a boring and unresponsive style, Parting was able to get a better army composition up than Top, and since Top made no special micro or drop decisions, Parting came out ahead

To learn for P:
[image loading]
4/10
To learn for T:
[image loading]
4/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
4/10
Overall: Standard boring game - nothing exciting out of either side


Game Two:



****
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
TheLOLas
Profile Joined May 2011
United States646 Posts
November 02 2011 00:53 GMT
#2
Holy crap this was very well put together. I've been busy lately so I haven't had the chance to watch the VOD's. thanks for summarizing.
UltraVires
Profile Joined April 2010
United States241 Posts
November 02 2011 00:55 GMT
#3
This is awesome! Thank you!
hyunGGe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States108 Posts
November 02 2011 00:59 GMT
#4
Thanks a lot! This is a great thread, now I know what to exactly to look for as a Terran. Especially the timings!

hope to see more of these summaries, confusedcrib!
Btw you kinda can guess who won without the spoilers. You should probably put spoilers at the top...
Jugem-Jugem Shit-Tossing The Life Of Shin-chan's Two-Day-Old Underwear Balmung Fezalion Isaac Schneider 1/3True Love 2/3 Hangnail Anxiety Betrayal Knows My Name Or Does It Really Ignore Calls Squid Dogfish Halibut Trout-Cod Dogfish This Is a Different Dog
Conquerer67
Profile Joined May 2011
United States605 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-02 01:02:36
November 02 2011 01:01 GMT
#5
Nicely done. And I have to agree with the comments on NesTea vs sC and asd.

Also, I think you left out some of the games that don't include a terran (/sarcasm)
I hate when people compare SC2 and rochambeu. One race isn't fucking supposed to counter another one. | Protoss isn't OP. Their units on the other hand....
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
November 02 2011 01:20 GMT
#6
On November 02 2011 09:47 confusedcrib wrote:


(P)MC vs. (T)Ryung

MC scouts CC first, super pressure, 3 gate expand, kill him with it.

Learning for P:
[image loading]
8.5/10
Learning for T:
[image loading]
2/5
Entertainment Value:
[image loading]
6/10
Overall: Pretty straightforward, if you're not learning protoss, skip it

+ Show Spoiler [Show Winner] +
MC






Well written and very interesting, one for every round pretty please?
But if your trying to avoid spoilers, which i assume you are by spoilering the winner, "kill him with it" sort of gives away who won
confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
November 02 2011 01:25 GMT
#7
Ya, I added the spoilers after the fact because no matter what I say, it does not guarantee a victory. It's also easier just to do it across the board than in one particular place
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
gHUEbert
Profile Joined November 2011
United States5 Posts
November 02 2011 01:37 GMT
#8
This is seriously awesome, man. It's tough to watch every game, but knowing which ones are and aren't worth it will make my viewing experience much more enjoyable.

I love the "To learn", too, as a really low level player.
CeriseCherries
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
6170 Posts
November 02 2011 02:28 GMT
#9
Yay these are pretty nice.. didnt catch the games and its easier not to have to dig thru lr
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
November 02 2011 02:31 GMT
#10
On November 02 2011 09:47 confusedcrib wrote:
This game literally made me laugh. Nestea is an incredible genius and made sC look like he was in the bronze league. That being said, occasionally the worse player still wins.

Learning for Z:
[image loading]
8/10
Learning for T:
[image loading]
3/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
LOL, what? You must think the game is pretty darn broken if one player plays like an incredible genius and the other player looks like he's in the bronze league and it's the second guy who wins (it wasn't even close).

Stop listening to Artosis drool and just watch the games unbiased: Nestea is not that amazing against Terran and hasn't been for a long time (not that I can think of a Zerg offhand who's been better). What genius did he display this game that I missed? Countering the proxy barracks by going spawning pool before hatch (a decision he made before scouting anything)? Failing to scout or guess the banshee follow-up in time? Trying to go mutas against them and failing completely? Making two spires by accident?

The best players are the best players because they don't sit back and think things like "oh, well, occasionally the worse player wins"; they think "how did he outplay me that game?"
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
kineticSYN
Profile Joined May 2011
United States909 Posts
November 02 2011 02:45 GMT
#11
Besides some of the ratings seeming awkward (since I watched the matches, feels different to me), this is insanely helpful.

Hopefully you can keep this up, cuz it would save me a lot of time trying to filter through weak games to find some gold. Usually the recommended games polls in the LR threads are so biased it's not worth checking into.
IMMvp #1 :)
confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-02 02:49:48
November 02 2011 02:48 GMT
#12
On November 02 2011 11:31 qrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2011 09:47 confusedcrib wrote:
This game literally made me laugh. Nestea is an incredible genius and made sC look like he was in the bronze league. That being said, occasionally the worse player still wins.

Learning for Z:
[image loading]
8/10
Learning for T:
[image loading]
3/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
LOL, what? You must think the game is pretty darn broken if one player plays like an incredible genius and the other player looks like he's in the bronze league and it's the second guy who wins (it wasn't even close).

Stop listening to Artosis drool and just watch the games unbiased: Nestea is not that amazing against Terran and hasn't been for a long time (not that I can think of a Zerg offhand who's been better). What genius did he display this game that I missed? Countering the proxy barracks by going spawning pool before hatch (a decision he made before scouting anything)? Failing to scout or guess the banshee follow-up in time? Trying to go mutas against them and failing completely? Making two spires by accident?

The best players are the best players because they don't sit back and think things like "oh, well, occasionally the worse player wins"; they think "how did he outplay me that game?"


Hey man, I have no problem going deeper into that game, I enjoy the criticism Nestea's handling of that proxy two rax was down right drool inducing - from the overlord that was positioned in the middle of the map to catch an incoming aggressive marine to the brilliance of getting an early spine crawler, his handling was undeniably superb. sC executed an equally undeniably smart follow up, two port banshee. The timing of the spore crawlers was literally about three in game seconds too late - otherwise Nestea would have been granted an easy win. Nestea's handling of the early push was what made sC look like he was in bronze league, it was literally laugh out loud worthy how easy Nestea made it look.

As for your mutalisk criticism, I think it was very clear that he built two spires to insure that at least one would survive, letting them both finish was just a small mistake, but he was also dealing with an intense situation. It's important to remember that the mutas were not reactive, the spores were, and he was simply barely late on getting them completed, or else it would have been an easy win. In handling the early pressure, he was a strategical genius.

It's very difficult to argue that what sC did was more challenging than what Nestea did.

Oh, and you shouldn't be so dang rude when you start off a criticism, it is exceedingly pointless. Seriously, re-read your first sentence and see if it opens a forum of debate or if it sounds like a 12 year old trying to troll someone. I'm happy to discuss issues, but there is no reason to be so rude.
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
November 02 2011 03:36 GMT
#13
On November 02 2011 11:48 confusedcrib wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2011 11:31 qrs wrote:
On November 02 2011 09:47 confusedcrib wrote:
This game literally made me laugh. Nestea is an incredible genius and made sC look like he was in the bronze league. That being said, occasionally the worse player still wins.

Learning for Z:
[image loading]
8/10
Learning for T:
[image loading]
3/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
LOL, what? You must think the game is pretty darn broken if one player plays like an incredible genius and the other player looks like he's in the bronze league and it's the second guy who wins (it wasn't even close).

Stop listening to Artosis drool and just watch the games unbiased: Nestea is not that amazing against Terran and hasn't been for a long time (not that I can think of a Zerg offhand who's been better). What genius did he display this game that I missed? Countering the proxy barracks by going spawning pool before hatch (a decision he made before scouting anything)? Failing to scout or guess the banshee follow-up in time? Trying to go mutas against them and failing completely? Making two spires by accident?

The best players are the best players because they don't sit back and think things like "oh, well, occasionally the worse player wins"; they think "how did he outplay me that game?"


Hey man, I have no problem going deeper into that game, I enjoy the criticism Nestea's handling of that proxy two rax was down right drool inducing - from the overlord that was positioned in the middle of the map to catch an incoming aggressive marine to the brilliance of getting an early spine crawler, his handling was undeniably superb. sC executed an equally undeniably smart follow up, two port banshee. The timing of the spore crawlers was literally about three in game seconds too late - otherwise Nestea would have been granted an easy win. Nestea's handling of the early push was what made sC look like he was in bronze league, it was literally laugh out loud worthy how easy Nestea made it look.

As for your mutalisk criticism, I think it was very clear that he built two spires to insure that at least one would survive, letting them both finish was just a small mistake, but he was also dealing with an intense situation. It's important to remember that the mutas were not reactive, the spores were, and he was simply barely late on getting them completed, or else it would have been an easy win. In handling the early pressure, he was a strategical genius.

It's very difficult to argue that what sC did was more challenging than what Nestea did.

Oh, and you shouldn't be so dang rude when you start off a criticism, it is exceedingly pointless. Seriously, re-read your first sentence and see if it opens a forum of debate or if it sounds like a 12 year old trying to troll someone. I'm happy to discuss issues, but there is no reason to be so rude.
Actually, whereas you just compared me to a 12-year-old, you'll notice that I didn't aim any personal attacks at you. Maybe you take criticism of your point of view as personal, in which case, sorry, but I just found it mind-boggling that someone could look at a game where one player loses badly and then start singing his praises and talking about how he made his opponent look like a newb. I still do, to be honest.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6259 Posts
November 02 2011 03:45 GMT
#14
I disagree a lot with some of your ratings. It seemed to have been influenced alot by who won/lost.

For instance, in sC vs Losira, I don't consider it a good learning game because of the many mistakes Losira did. sC didn't so much abuse timings but rather Losira more or less handed him the win. In fact, you can say that sC's timings were not perfect since when the muta harass came, he did not have turrets up in time.

In Nestea vs asd, you put 1/10 for terran learning. I heavily disagree since asd's build was highly innovative and he really should've won the game.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-02 03:53:14
November 02 2011 03:51 GMT
#15
On November 02 2011 11:48 confusedcrib wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2011 11:31 qrs wrote:
On November 02 2011 09:47 confusedcrib wrote:
This game literally made me laugh. Nestea is an incredible genius and made sC look like he was in the bronze league. That being said, occasionally the worse player still wins.

Learning for Z:
[image loading]
8/10
Learning for T:
[image loading]
3/10
Entertainment:
[image loading]
8/10
LOL, what? You must think the game is pretty darn broken if one player plays like an incredible genius and the other player looks like he's in the bronze league and it's the second guy who wins (it wasn't even close).

Stop listening to Artosis drool and just watch the games unbiased: Nestea is not that amazing against Terran and hasn't been for a long time (not that I can think of a Zerg offhand who's been better). What genius did he display this game that I missed? Countering the proxy barracks by going spawning pool before hatch (a decision he made before scouting anything)? Failing to scout or guess the banshee follow-up in time? Trying to go mutas against them and failing completely? Making two spires by accident?

The best players are the best players because they don't sit back and think things like "oh, well, occasionally the worse player wins"; they think "how did he outplay me that game?"


Hey man, I have no problem going deeper into that game, I enjoy the criticism Nestea's handling of that proxy two rax was down right drool inducing - from the overlord that was positioned in the middle of the map to catch an incoming aggressive marine to the brilliance of getting an early spine crawler, his handling was undeniably superb. sC executed an equally undeniably smart follow up, two port banshee. The timing of the spore crawlers was literally about three in game seconds too late - otherwise Nestea would have been granted an easy win. Nestea's handling of the early push was what made sC look like he was in bronze league, it was literally laugh out loud worthy how easy Nestea made it look.

As for your mutalisk criticism, I think it was very clear that he built two spires to insure that at least one would survive, letting them both finish was just a small mistake, but he was also dealing with an intense situation. It's important to remember that the mutas were not reactive, the spores were, and he was simply barely late on getting them completed, or else it would have been an easy win. In handling the early pressure, he was a strategical genius.

It's very difficult to argue that what sC did was more challenging than what Nestea did.

Oh, and you shouldn't be so dang rude when you start off a criticism, it is exceedingly pointless. Seriously, re-read your first sentence and see if it opens a forum of debate or if it sounds like a 12 year old trying to troll someone. I'm happy to discuss issues, but there is no reason to be so rude.

Lol it doesn't matter what's harder to execute, a 2 port banshee defense or a 2 port banshee. If Nestea executes correctly it doesn't matter how well sC does it he'll just straight up lose and Nestea reacted pretty damn poorly considering he went a bunch of misplaced spores, a really late spire, and some overseers (wtf). Even if he went hydras he could have held that off easily. It's a fucking 1 base. Mutas are insta win if you get them out but they were way late. Nestea's execution was really god damn poor that game.
confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-02 03:56:18
November 02 2011 03:52 GMT
#16
On November 02 2011 12:45 Azzur wrote:
I disagree a lot with some of your ratings. It seemed to have been influenced alot by who won/lost.

For instance, in sC vs Losira, I don't consider it a good learning game because of the many mistakes Losira did. sC didn't so much abuse timings but rather Losira more or less handed him the win. In fact, you can say that sC's timings were not perfect since when the muta harass came, he did not have turrets up in time.

In Nestea vs asd, you put 1/10 for terran learning. I heavily disagree since asd's build was highly innovative and he really should've won the game.


Perhaps you have just never seen the double reactor hellion all in before? It isn't worth learning because it is essentially an all in, and that does not create long term improved play. And sC's timing push had an amazing amount of units and hit just as his three bases were powering up. I think that the turret timing may have been on purpose, as the map proved easy to deflect mutas on. Just because turrets were not up to turn away mutalisks does not mean that his timings are suddenly useless. I disagree with your criticisms :/

In regards to "itsmedudeman," I'm not sure why you are so critical of Nestea's play, when you yourself admitted that it was a slight error in spore crawler placement/timing, an easy mistake to make and Nestea's early game superiority should not be blown off as a result of such a slight error.
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-02 04:01:46
November 02 2011 04:01 GMT
#17
Early game brilliance? Please stop fanboying. He won in the metagame by going 14 pool and just knowing sC from a previous bo5 against him as well as other series against his teammate losira and probably some ladder games too. The early spine was actually 100% unneeded, he just didn't want to lose early. Seriously, his defense was definitely mediocre and a code A zerg could have handled it at the same level he did in that game against the 2 port banshees. He definitely did not play a nestea-esque game besides being greedy when you know your opponent is 1 basing.
lIlIlIlIlIlI
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Korea (South)3851 Posts
November 02 2011 07:18 GMT
#18
--- Nuked ---
courtpanda
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
866 Posts
November 02 2011 08:10 GMT
#19
would more spores have helped? it was a thought out build order.

imo: sC knows 2 things:
1) nestea can outmacro him. late game, nestea wins the majority of the time
2) nestea probably wont get super fast mutas.

knowing these two things, going 2 port banshee isnt a bad idea. how else can you stop it as zerg, mass spores? you cant have enough to cover every building without losing too many drones/resources. spores are also pretty useless late game, unlike spines. enough queens could have held it, but at that point it beomes a micro battle.



confusedcrib
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1307 Posts
November 03 2011 03:23 GMT
#20
Updated original post with groups C and D
I'm a writer for TeamLiquid, you've probably heard of me
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