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On October 30 2011 07:33 javy925 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 07:26 cz wrote:On October 30 2011 07:22 Ruscour wrote:
I think a lot of people here are misunderstanding what happened on Reddit/Twitter...people are not attacking him because they don't like him. People are attacking him because he wrote a lengthy post about why BW is the only eSport and everything else is utter horseshit. djWHEAT et al called him out for it and that was that.
With the elitist attitude you have, Milkis, you shouldn't be involved in eSports. Best of luck in your future, you made the right decision to leave. He didn't say anything was horseshit at all. Way to misconstrue it. He just put the bar at being an esport at or above what BW is right now for some decent reasons, then gave 90% of his post to describing the past BW scene. Then people got all angry because hungry-hungry hippos with MaxisOnline is now not an esport. "Everytime I see someone call some other game an eSport, I get taken aback a bit. This is because while it is true that many of these games such as Counter Strike or Quake do have a large competitive scene, to call it a "sport", that is, to give those games all the implications behind such a word is a bit too far fetched." "For the last decade the scene in Brood War blew away anything else the entire world had combined" do you understand how fucking condescending and disrespectful to everyone involved with these games this is? It shows just how ignorant he is outside the world of BW, and he was called out on it. Imagine the kind of response someone would get if they said they same thing about BW and posted it on TL.
It's a reasonable argument. He's defining an eSport to be at a certain magnitude and quality (# of viewers, league-type, % of people who follow but don't/have never played, casual fans vs hardcore followers), and is saying that people calling CS and so on eSports is far-fetched (as they don't reach the high-level he is requiring to be an eSport). It's just a definition thing, and is a reasonable argument, though it's mostly subjective at this point.
Nobody can say that about BW right now because it's the leading eSport, or was, or whatever. And a lot of people say all the time, "BW is not a real sport" and so on. That's a question of definition again: what defines a sport, do eSports qualify, and so on. TL does not blow-up when someone says "computer games are not sports."
I can see how people might be offended but I think he was coming from a logical point of view, not an emotional (cruel, put-these-people-in-their-place) state, and people are reading that wrong. Then came the ad hominems, heavy on how people were offended and light on how he is actually wrong, which I don't think you can claim him to be as it comes down to a subjective definiton.
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I don't get what the problem is here. Most people simply disagreed with his statement that BW is the only real eSport. The way he phrased it was that BW is the most sport like. It is like saying Basketball is a sport but Badminton / Skijoring is not because Basketball is more established. (Skijoring is so unknown the spell checker thinks it is a misspelling)
Also there is not fixed definition of what an eSport actually is. Lots of people have their own ways to interpret it. However the way Milkis phrased it is something I would disagree with. It just seems way too narrow minded.
To me this seems like an excuse to get away from the scene for a while because it is stressing him out. Which is perfectly fine.
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It seems like Milkis has already made his decision and thought it out. I hope he changes his mind though and learns from this.
He will really be missed. Yeah sure he makes a lot of controversial and arrogant comments which might not have been thought out in advance. And yeah sure he probably received a lot more fame through sheer coincidence and luck.
But at the end of the day, he's done so much for the community (more than half of the ignorant buffoons on Reddit and TL), and he could have done so much more, had people been more civil in their discussions with him.
Milkis, I hope you come back eventually when you've taken time to take a break. I'm sure most of the community will welcome you back. Just be stronger and more sensitive and realize this is the freaking internet
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Can't say im going to miss you after reading what you posted on reddit. No disrespect, but honestly, when you're a well known person on places like reddit/team liquid, do you think that everyone is going to go "oh nice writeup, milkis!"?
you must have known this was going to offend alot of people. If you were going to get so sensitive about the backlash you should have never posted it in the first place. Honestly, bashing every other competitive game is just asking for trouble, especially in a community where alot of other well known people come from other backgrounds such as djWHEAT and others.
come on.
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All I can say is... JP's still here.
What now, son.
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He doesn't deserve it, he was given an opportunity to make something out of himself, to make a living out of Starcraft and yet he just goes out and ruins it.
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This is some insane drama right here.
You will be back though. See you soon.
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Hello Milkis!
Welcome to life in the spotlight. You need to learn how to ignore the haters & troll or you'll never survive as someone "known" in e-sports. I think there's plenty of people out there who think you do an outstanding job, and I don't think you should quit just because you get a bunch of retards hating on you on an internet forum.
I think I speak for everyone who's had even the slightest touch of "fame" (maybe e-sports fame is more appropriate) when I say that this stuff happends, and will continue to happen, as long as you are out there doing stuff in fronts of thousands of people. Everyone is on hybris behind a computer, they think they know it all, and how to perform x task ten times better than you. You either realize 99% of these people are full of crap and just ignore them, or you let them drag you down and quit.
I say fuck the haters and come back! 
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...yes, translating for 2 minutes every hour during a live event between two languages that you know fluently is so exhausting. Especially when you've been flown there, given a nice hotel room, a paycheck for your services, are surrounded by passionate people who know and like you and can actually be a first hand witness to the explosive infant stages of what could very well become mainstream entertainment in 20 years.
If you don't feel not only lucky but blessed to be in the position you're in, then you do not deserve it. I'm not even gonna comment on the reddit thing, what are you, 12?
Goodbye.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 30 2011 07:33 HellKey wrote:
Dont listen to haters ! Milkis...
As a former quaker that switched to BW late 2k8 and sc2 when the beta arrived:
I CAN tell that no other game can compare to BW.
Btw wheat saying that other gamers can compare to S class players (savior, bisu, flash, jeadong ect) is such a joke...I mean I fucking love toxjq, but even him cant compare to the amount of practice they had to do to get to that point, i dont even think you can compare him to B class players...
I wont even comment on counter strike and some other games that have nothing required to be a good esport outside of the popularity.
I like how your whole point seems to be that "only skill matters" which is basically the cliche of every 12 year old halo player.
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Dear Milkis,
Fuck the haters, they are like mosquito's, annoying as shit and feeding off of others causing misery wherever they go. You are entitled to your opinion, and who cares what everyone thinks about it. Thanks for all your work and making events more enjoyable. I hope you'll reconsider and remember the good times. Who wouldn't be nervous being in front of thousands of people live and thousands more at home. I would be shaking if I were up there. But just think that for every loudmouth hater there are 100 more people who appreciate you and what you have done for us. I remember when you where at MLG translating for the first time on stage and you accidentally translated english into english. You and everyone just had a good chuckle and the announcers said lets give it up for milkis and a huge roar of applause came out of the audience.
It's okay to be frustrated, but don't let your emotions override your senses and again FUCK THE HATERS!
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On October 30 2011 07:44 Carnagath wrote:
...yes, translating for 2 minutes every hour during a live event between two languages that you know fluently is so exhausting. Especially when you've been flown there, given a nice hotel room, a paycheck for your services, are surrounded by passionate people who know and like you and can actually be a first hand witness to the explosive infant stages of what could very well become mainstream entertainment in 20 years.
If you don't feel not only lucky but blessed to be in the position you're in, then you do not deserve it. I'm not even gonna comment on the reddit thing, what are you, 12?
Goodbye.
So true. +Internet
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LOL. Talk about a huge drama queen, jesus christ. Can't say good riddance because what you did so far for the community was really great, and you did it truly for the community. It's sad to see you succumb to these overly dramatic situations. Ggwp
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I don't know how people are exaggerating his argument to such extremes. There hasn't been many games pulling a non-player audience, especially a lot of the audience that BW does get ie: young females. BW is the only one to really do it (although it's not quite clear how many players overlap with spectators). I'd say it's a fair bar to set what's supposed to be a sport. You can't classify every competitive game as a sport. If that's his level to set the bar at, who cares? It's his fucking opinion after all, personally i'd set it a bit lower but whatever. it's not that unreasonable.
I find it hilarious now you have people calling him all kinds of things in the latest reddit thread. Idiots basically frothing at the mouths falling over themselves to insult someone because he vaguely insulted a fucking videogame you like, it's embarrassing and reddit has been overall just an embarrassment with anything Starcraft related. From the extreme homoerotic circle-jerking over community figures to posting 90% about drama and 10% about the actual games; you can be sure that reddit is the absolute worst place to read anything about Starcraft.
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Milkis, you should talk to Tyler. He sounds like a very smart man. And it looks like you have a lot of other friends on Team Liquid.
No matter what you do, people you don't like will benefit from it in some way. Don't worry about that. Do things because your friends appreciate it and forget everyone else.
I also think Rekrul is onto something. :-)
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I'll always love you Milkis!! <3
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Also I think I should explain why I think the word eSport is used in the first place for electronic competitive gaming.
Professional sports have things like organized leagues, tournaments, and associations. When competitive gaming acquires these characteristics the word eSports makes sense because it uses the way professional sports are run as a template.
Just some guys playing some game competitively does not make an eSport because there is no infrastructure or order to it. I would say SCII almost certainly qualifies as an eSport because it has extensive infrastructure now already for it but could use some more.
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On October 30 2011 07:43 meRz wrote:Hello Milkis! Welcome to life in the spotlight. You need to learn how to ignore the haters & troll or you'll never survive as someone "known" in e-sports. I think there's plenty of people out there who think you do an outstanding job, and I don't think you should quit just because you get a bunch of retards hating on you on an internet forum. I think I speak for everyone who's had even the slightest touch of "fame" (maybe e-sports fame is more appropriate) when I say that this stuff happends, and will continue to happen, as long as you are out there doing stuff in fronts of thousands of people. Everyone is on hybris behind a computer, they think they know it all, and how to perform x task ten times better than you. You either realize 99% of these people are full of crap and just ignore them, or you let them drag you down and quit. I say fuck the haters and come back!
Wait a minute, you agree with him? You think sc2 is not an esport?
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Milkis nooooo....we the people need you, screw the haters. As Incontrol says, "Haters gonna hate" so come on buddy just forget about it and keep being awesome
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Milkis has done more for this community than MOST of the people who have commented in this thread. Instead of disrespecting the man, give him some time, space, and respect and let him make his own decision. This community should have nothing left to say because if we are honest with ourselves, we put him here in the first place.
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EPT
