On October 30 2011 07:57 Cite wrote: This is probably to be honest just a drama gone crazy due to influential people like DJWheat going on a direct quite abusive (in terms of just language used) retort to Milkis' post. What I really cannot stand is how someone soo well known (DJWheat, Zlasher) can attack someone for simply posting their opinion.
I do not get this ONE bit. Sure start a discussion, but because someone said that they do not think your previous "idols" were as great as what you hold as your standards as the proper idol you decide to post a reply in which you KNOW everyone will jump behind due to your "e-fame power". I mean I pose this question to wheat if he likes posing such a question to Milkis: Why are you attacking someone with so much hostility in your posts when he has posted his opinion?
It's because Milkis is no longer just a member of this community. He's become a public (and somewhat influential) figure, just like, say, Wheat, and when you're a public figure, you have to be much more careful with how you word things, because many people will misconstrue what you're saying. All of a sudden, you're invested with an air of authority that you might not have, and people will take what you say at face value without digging any deeper. In this case, it's clear that Milkis doesn't really know anything about any scene outside of Starcraft -- he hasn't seen the wider picture -- and Wheat called him out on it.
Also, what Milkis said basically indirectly shit on everything Wheat has been working on for years and years and years, so there's that too, I guess.
I know you that you of all people understand the internet and TL, and so I know that you will understand that my post has no merit. But I still want to say a couple things.
Thank you Milkis, I know I don't post much and this account is new, but I've been reading your threads, time and time again pinned on the front page. You are one of the few willing to actually put your pride, reputation, and hard work into Esports.
Esports is a community run by people who are essentially mimicing an entire entertainment industry. It is absurd to think that we have done such incredible things with little to no formal training or preparation. And the reason why this works is because we care about it so much and even if we knew that it would be unknown territory we decided to go for it now because this is our opportunity.
I am one of the founding members of a 300 + person Starcraft Club at UBC, and I get shit all the time from my executive, from my members, from other places, and i just take it. I don't give a fuck. If they don't like something, I take it to the face, and then continue promoting esports. They don't understand how much effort and emotion we have to put into events. Running a 100 person tournament on a 0$ budget, and getting shit slandered at me, I don't understand their reasoning, but let it pass. And trust me the job i do is far from professional, but I give it my best shot possible. I have never been taught how to go about getting sponsors, but I've done it. I was never taught how to be an announcer, but I do it. I was never taught how to set up LAN equipment for 100 computers, but i did it. And problems happen, but in the end I get better at doing what I care about.
I don't care what people say to me, but fuck, if people can't take a second to realize how much people like yourself care about esports. I don't know what to say other than to keep doing what you are good at. And trust me, you are good at Translating.
I love you milkis, Never let the haters' hate make u mad.
I dont know if you are going to read this, but you spurred an entire community into giving their money to you to bring the most loved player to America. A feat no one else probably would have tried, i and many more people you respect you for the work you have done for this community, and im pretty sure people agree with me on this saying you sir, are a legend, within the community and will be missed )':
Hahaha what ever... I don't know why people think they are all THAT important in the great scheme just because they have done "anything" in E-Sports (which we still gotta remember, is pretty damn small world wide compared to any other sport, when it comes to claiming fame). If you hate what you are doing, don't do it... the vast majority really do not care.
On October 30 2011 07:57 Cite wrote: This is probably to be honest just a drama gone crazy due to influential people like DJWheat going on a direct quite abusive (in terms of just language used) retort to Milkis' post. What I really cannot stand is how someone soo well known (DJWheat, Zlasher) can attack someone for simply posting their opinion.
I do not get this ONE bit. Sure start a discussion, but because someone said that they do not think your previous "idols" were as great as what you hold as your standards as the proper idol you decide to post a reply in which you KNOW everyone will jump behind due to your "e-fame power". I mean I pose this question to wheat if he likes posing such a question to Milkis: Why are you attacking someone with so much hostility in your posts when he has posted his opinion?
It's because Milkis is no longer just a member of this community. He's become a public (and somewhat influential) figure, just like, say, Wheat, and when you're a public figure, you have to be much more careful with how you word things, because many people will misconstrue what you're saying. All of a sudden, you're invested with an air of authority that you might not have, and people will take what you say at face value without digging any deeper. In this case, it's clear that Milkis doesn't really know anything about any scene outside of Starcraft -- he hasn't seen the wider picture -- and Wheat called him out on it.
Also, what Milkis said basically indirectly shit on everything Wheat has been working on for years and years and years, so there's that too, I guess.
To be fair I believe Milkis worded everything PERFECTLY. It started off with a title that pretty much left nothing up for debate: My (KEYWORD) VERY (2nd key) elitist (alarms gone off) description of BW.
If you nit pick everything you will find something to argue about and wheat just went off the handle when he found something to shit on about. Just because Wheat has worked in that industry does that really mean he had to take that much of a hit to his ego and defend the entirety of his esports with such a reply? He afterall is a public figure who people will miscontrue his posts and well to be frank all I got out of his reply was something akin to what I'd post after a day of bad laddering on bnet - it misses the point and is full of vulgarity that accomplishes nothing (except in this sad case a giant flaming hatewagon has spawned from it)
On October 30 2011 01:49 Liquid`Tyler wrote: --Interacting directly with the community isn't for everyone. Some people take years to get good at it and be at peace with all the things the community says and other people should just avoid it completely. Keep in mind that when you say something publicly and read so much feedback, you are going to get every single kind of response. You may as well not read the feedback and just imagine "what is every possible way someone could respond to this?" There's really no difference. If you are seeking a consensus response, keep in mind that consensus easily changes one day to the next. Using large scale public feedback is very very tricky. Most people don't need to. Ask advice privately from people you trust and respect. I'm sure you'd do great with just that.
--When you express opinions or explain your stance on an issue, it reads better and makes you feel better if you are very humble and not too ambitious with your claims. This is just a change in the phrasing and mood of the text and careful clipping of the scope on everything you say. Unless you are absolutely 110% sure that what you're saying is correct and you're willing to defend exactly what you said to the death (even if you wrote ambiguous things and said things you didn't mean to), then you should be as humble and as limited as possible. You should act like you are willing to change every opinion you have, or perhaps go farther than that and act like you want to change every opinion you have, even if you don't feel that way at all. You can be 99% sure that you're completely correct, but you should still act this way. You should do it because it makes it much easier to cope when it turns out you are wrong or when it turns out that everyone hates what you're saying (even if they can't prove that you're wrong and even if it's not wrong at all). And you act that way because people will respond to it better and like you more.
All sorts of very smart and successful people practice this, whether in academia or business. They have extreme and passionate sentiments hidden behind impenetrable walls of humble and limited public speech.
100% this^
Tyler, you are amazing with words.
Milkis, read this passage by Tyler at least five times, because this is the exact sate of mind that you need to adhere to. You seem like a good person, Milkis, I really appreciate what you do for us (non-Korean speakers) and alike. You can't expect everyone to think like Milkis 2.0. Everyone in this world has people that agree and disagree with them; with one opinion to the next, each one having a wide variety of severeness/uniqueness that only one person can hold.
You need to take a step back from the situation at hand, and really look between the lines.
You're trying to create pity for yourself, a cry for help because some people disagree with what you have said. It's a shame, and is more selfish than you realize.
You certainly offended some people, and they wanted you to know, that's all.
If you quit because of this, it's disappointing, but it's your life.
I just read the article and am very confused. Does no one else think that this has been so blown out of proportion by those other than Milkis? I admit that I agree that he has overreacted since then but...
I agree with the article, but I cannot for the life of me understand why it was not more focused on the fact that Brood War is not the only eSport, just on another, higher level than the others. (A la Flash to B-Teamers) This simple error, this simple semantic confusion has somehow precipitated far too much fallout in excess. End lesson, in my opinion: be very careful with the words you use and how you phrase your opinions. I think everyone could learn from that.
If it was too exhausting, ok. But please don't quit because of some angry nerd's comment - that's internet. There are thousands of people appritiating your work but of course you don't hear from them.
On October 30 2011 07:33 HellKey wrote: Dont listen to haters ! Milkis... As a former quaker that switched to BW late 2k8 and sc2 when the beta arrived:
I CAN tell that no other game can compare to BW.
Btw wheat saying that other gamers can compare to S class players (savior, bisu, flash, jeadong ect) is such a joke...I mean I fucking love toxjq, but even him cant compare to the amount of practice they had to do to get to that point, i dont even think you can compare him to B class players...
I wont even comment on counter strike and some other games that have nothing required to be a good esport outside of the popularity.
I like how your whole point seems to be that "only skill matters" which is basically the cliche of every 12 year old halo player.
12 year old halo player has no experience...
I played many competitive games, I enjoyed playing them, I enjoyed watching some of them...But nothing compares...
But if you think that lesser skilled/talented athletes or players are as worthy to watch than the top of the top...I'll gadly get a time travel machine, go back to my 12th birthday, play halo until my 13th birthday and get back to my 12th birthday...Cause if you think really so, then i live in a crazy world and i should probably go crazy...
People watch many sports that require different sets of skill in different amounts. If you only enjoy the sport that needs "the most skill" then that doesn't diminish the worth of other sports. Unless any BW pro would dominate everyone else in every game possible there are other people with more skill in these games.
His article seems mostly correct to me not sure why people are saying he obviously has no experience with other e-sports. He just basically said that if there aren't people who don't/have never played the game watching it then it's not really an e-sport. I'm not going to say whether or not that's a correct conclusion but isn't he at least right about there not really being another game like that? I don't think there are very many people who watch MOBAs/FPS/MMOs without also playing them.
The happiness of people is such a fickle thing, but you choose to bend and break constantly for it and you always give and rarely take. I bet it was too much for you, no? You should learn to appreciate yourself and derive self-confidence from that, mate. I'm going to take a stab and say the majority of these well-known figures in the SC2 community have been shat on heavily. The not-so-constructive criticism can and will hurt if you let it, but the figures still stand strong and that's why they're still notable in the community today. The puzzle pieces of our life will rarely make a fit, but we take our chances and go along with it.
"I'm done. I guess it's good riddance for all of you."
Well if you have that attitude then maybe yes? Never had a problem with you as a translator at all so good job on that but being disrespectful(maybe just the wording) to fans of other ESPORTS without knowing much about them when you are a public figure and doing it without being able to handle the criticism that is sure to follow is just...I don´t even...
And if you actually care that much about what other people/trolls/haters think of you then maybe it´s the right decision to quit.
EPT
