EPTOn October 30 2011 02:51 Talin wrote:
There's nothing inherently insulting in that post. People chose to be insulted by it.
Downvoting isn't the same as banning - those people are still allowed to post elsewhere. Besides, I was talking about TL, not about reddit.
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On October 30 2011 02:48 Woony wrote:
He insulted all the hard work many people have commited for other games for over 10 years. It's understandable that some people would critize his opinion rather harshly. Also all of the really out of line comments got downvoted, that's sort of the same as moderation.
On October 30 2011 02:44 Talin wrote:
I don't know what's acceptable to you, but my count is definitely not at 98%.
And I've already addressed why "that's how the internet works" is a shit argument, so I won't get into that again. Here's an easy step to make it work a bit less like that: ban everyone who was disrespectful to Milkis in this very thread. Simple. Clean. Easy.
These people are only here because they're allowed to be here and post here.
On October 30 2011 02:39 Woony wrote:
98% of the people in that thread posted in an acceptable manner. He posted a very controversial and drastic piece of opinion, so he is going to get rather drastic comments. The remaining 2% stepped over the line but that's got nothing to do with Reddit or TL, that's just how the internet works.
On October 30 2011 02:35 Talin wrote:
If he posted it in TL SC2 forum, the reaction wouldn't be any better. Hell, the reactions to this very blog post (which is game "neutral" and it's a completely different topic anyway) aren't much better. Even if he posted it in the TL BW forum, do you really think people who disagree with him wouldn't read it anyway and respond to it much in the same way? That's optimistic to say the least.
The bottom line is, Milkis is the kind of person who can post an informed and educated opinion on something, and has done enough for the community and been around long enough to warrant everyone who responds to first think long and hard before disagreeing, and even if they disagree to do it in a respectful manner.
On October 30 2011 02:27 Derez wrote:
It's all about the context of the community you place it in tho.
Milkis could have posted that exact same thread on the TL BW forum, and it wouldn't have gotten nearly the kind of reaction that it did over on reddit. Yet he chose to make his point on the SC2 reddit, which is not as strictly moderated as TL and attracts a crowd of which only a small percentage have an interest in BW in the first place (much like TL SC2).
It's kind of like coming over to my house and explaining in detail why every piece of furniture I have is terrible and how everything you own is superior. There's a reason people don't react friendly to behaviour like that. Nothing is forbidding you from doing it, but at least be reasonable in the expectations you have.
On October 30 2011 02:22 Talin wrote:
You know, it's very telling that some of the reactions on this thread are just as bad as many on reddit (if not as extreme).
TL has definitely lost much of its etiquette and class over the last year. There's not a lot left that makes it unique any more. Saying that the "internet is evil, don't listen to it" or whatever is easy and you may think saying that makes you look mature or smart in a cynical way, but it really doesn't. Making even a small place on the internet NOT blend into that stereotype is extremely difficult, and not many people care enough to contribute to that anymore.
Milkis is one of those guys who made TL and symbolized the TL community for me, and also one of the rare people whose views on a lot of [s]e-sports[/e] Starcraft related things I can agree with. But I'm not going to ask him to reconsider his decision if he indeed made it, as I don't think TL really deserves guys like him anymore.
Just get a paid translator who will be a nobody with no opinions and will take any bashing in the world for a paycheck. That's the trend in ESPORTS nowadays anyway, isn't it? Professionalism! Yay.
You know, it's very telling that some of the reactions on this thread are just as bad as many on reddit (if not as extreme).
TL has definitely lost much of its etiquette and class over the last year. There's not a lot left that makes it unique any more. Saying that the "internet is evil, don't listen to it" or whatever is easy and you may think saying that makes you look mature or smart in a cynical way, but it really doesn't. Making even a small place on the internet NOT blend into that stereotype is extremely difficult, and not many people care enough to contribute to that anymore.
Milkis is one of those guys who made TL and symbolized the TL community for me, and also one of the rare people whose views on a lot of [s]e-sports[/e] Starcraft related things I can agree with. But I'm not going to ask him to reconsider his decision if he indeed made it, as I don't think TL really deserves guys like him anymore.
Just get a paid translator who will be a nobody with no opinions and will take any bashing in the world for a paycheck. That's the trend in ESPORTS nowadays anyway, isn't it? Professionalism! Yay.
It's all about the context of the community you place it in tho.
Milkis could have posted that exact same thread on the TL BW forum, and it wouldn't have gotten nearly the kind of reaction that it did over on reddit. Yet he chose to make his point on the SC2 reddit, which is not as strictly moderated as TL and attracts a crowd of which only a small percentage have an interest in BW in the first place (much like TL SC2).
It's kind of like coming over to my house and explaining in detail why every piece of furniture I have is terrible and how everything you own is superior. There's a reason people don't react friendly to behaviour like that. Nothing is forbidding you from doing it, but at least be reasonable in the expectations you have.
If he posted it in TL SC2 forum, the reaction wouldn't be any better. Hell, the reactions to this very blog post (which is game "neutral" and it's a completely different topic anyway) aren't much better. Even if he posted it in the TL BW forum, do you really think people who disagree with him wouldn't read it anyway and respond to it much in the same way? That's optimistic to say the least.
The bottom line is, Milkis is the kind of person who can post an informed and educated opinion on something, and has done enough for the community and been around long enough to warrant everyone who responds to first think long and hard before disagreeing, and even if they disagree to do it in a respectful manner.
98% of the people in that thread posted in an acceptable manner. He posted a very controversial and drastic piece of opinion, so he is going to get rather drastic comments. The remaining 2% stepped over the line but that's got nothing to do with Reddit or TL, that's just how the internet works.
I don't know what's acceptable to you, but my count is definitely not at 98%.
And I've already addressed why "that's how the internet works" is a shit argument, so I won't get into that again. Here's an easy step to make it work a bit less like that: ban everyone who was disrespectful to Milkis in this very thread. Simple. Clean. Easy.
These people are only here because they're allowed to be here and post here.
He insulted all the hard work many people have commited for other games for over 10 years. It's understandable that some people would critize his opinion rather harshly. Also all of the really out of line comments got downvoted, that's sort of the same as moderation.
There's nothing inherently insulting in that post. People chose to be insulted by it.
Downvoting isn't the same as banning - those people are still allowed to post elsewhere. Besides, I was talking about TL, not about reddit.
He basically said my interests are superior to your interests and everything you've done is not worthy. That's an incredibly subjective and controversial opinion.
