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I've been watching all the videos up on TL about the new units in hots and i think i can safely say i don't like any of them. I'm not sure what else to say, is this subject even worth talking about? and if it is do we need a real thread or is a blog entry too much as it is. So much is obviously still up in the air that I'm not going to proclaim to quit or not buy the expansion, Starcraft is and probably still will be a really fun game that i would enjoy either way. I just feel there is a huge disconnect between the developers and the community on this one.
I'd also like to quickly point out that the ghost energy change is actually a buff, right now its 25 energy to enter cloak and then it depletes as you stay cloaked. the proposed change is a flat 25 energy cost and energy still regenerating while cloaked. depending on the timings this will either make 'nuke pokes' into expos about half the cost as now, or it will make it possible to just stealth across the whole map like a dt, and for a nukular emp machine that seems a bit imba x)
my first big problem is with the battle hellion. blizzard feel that hellions aren't good enough vs mass charglot? Have they even actually tested this theory? 30 hellions roast 30 zealots in about 5 seconds with 4-6 hellions killed, the idea that hellions aren't good enough shows blizzard dont seem to think of "late game" the same way the community does, a video showing 3 helions vs 10 zealots isnt a late game scenario.
the reason Hellions are not used vs Protoss is the infrastructure, if you are going mmm all game with ghosts and vikings later you have Starports and barracks, 1 factory for the tech tree and thats it. producing more factories and mech upgrades for 1 unit is a waste of money. this is the reason you don't see Hellions, not that they aren't good. If blizzard want to give Terran a heavy duty 'stopper' for chargelots just give us the firebat back, they are slow (so they fit into the deathball situation we are talking about) bulky and deal aoe +light damage, and they are made at the tech barracks, which late game terrans already have in abundance.
Second 'bad' unit, the Tempest. the tempest is to deal with a mass muta cloud that in blizzards words of 30-40 mutas is bigger than I've ever seen in 15 months of Starcraft. semantics aside this new capital ship complete misses the point. Blizzards explanation for the need for this unit seems to stem from the idea that mass phoenix lose head to head against mass muta, this just isn't true. at equal costs phoenix tear mutas apart in any numbers. their second assumption seems to be that 30 mutas can appear out of nowhere without much time to react, even putting aside that this just isn't true the Tempest is not a good answer, due to requiring a fleet beacon it is not a reactionary unit, you must be going with air units already and in this situation you have the phoenix, which as i said is already a dominant force vs mutas.
Third unit i think is 'bad' is the Replicant. This unit is so wildly 'out there' that it feels almost impossible to get a good feel just from looking at it how it can and will be used, and thats precisely the problem. This unit is going to be hell to balance around. It could be anywhere from too expensive (more expensive than the Terran making a Banshee AND researching cloak combined) and therefore never usable, or it could be stupidly overpowered with new unit combinations being thought up every week and being impossible to practice against because the amount of choices are just too damn high.
I could go on to make arguments for pretty much every new unit but like i said too much is up in the air still (although I'm worried that most of the new Zerg upgrades wont be usable till hive tech, gg hydras) my main point is still that just from what we have seen so far, Blizzard seems completely at odds to the community on what each race struggles with and how it could be fixed, or if they should even be fixed. I really hope i'm wrong but adding 6 or so new units and 8 or so new upgrades is going to be hard enough to balance even if they are all the 'correct' choices.
Probably better off just posting this on the official forums, but they are a shitstorm at the best of times
 
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I assume from the tone in your blog that you have tested HotS already extensively?
I find it absolutely hilarious that you title your blog in a way like you're about to present an opinion, but then proceed to pretend like you're talking for all the community like some kind of bringer of objective truth.
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protoss can copy all units your argument is invalid
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On October 23 2011 23:14 turdburgler wrote:
is this subject even worth talking about?
No. The new units are hilarious, balanced or not, their concept is a joke.
SC2 is looking more and more like Transformers: The RTS, a game that looks silly and aimed to teenagers boys.
There is a last hope, thats the LotV, but the way Blizzard is handling SC2 doesn't make the future much bright.
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I think some of the marketing hype released by Blizz around these new units majorly over-simplifies things. Obviously the Tempest is not a reactionary counter; it's probably meant to be a viable late-game air unit, which Toss currently lacks. Anything is better than the current carrier, no?
The idea that Blizz is adding units that are too hard to balance seems dubious. As we've seen, Blizz will remove broken units from SC2. If a new unit is very hard to balance, but eventually balance is reached, that means it's a complex and nuanced unit, and the sort of thing we probably want in the game -- it allows creative players to truly shine. For example, I really look forward to seeing how the Replicant is used at all skill levels, but especially by pros. If it ends up being truly imba, Blizz will fix or remove it.
I trust that Blizz will continue to balance the game after HoTS is released, and that they have indeed thought about these new units at great depth, in all game play scenarios (not just as hard counters in specific matchups).
Not a bad blog; it got me thinking in more depth about the new units than I have so far 
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I disagree. The zerg units are exactly what we've been begging for since beta: a way to control chokes. The terran units seem to make mech plausible so it's not just an mmm fest(the battle hellion actually makes it useful in engagements). The protoss units are kind of impossible to have an opinion on:the replicator is wierd and we won't be able to tell if it's good or not till we try it, the new oracle(?) thing that interrupts production/mining seems pretty cool but might as well be too gimmicky. The new capital ship seems to be as useless as the carrier/mothership: situational and it might work, but you're better of spending money on something else.
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I just wish SC2 wasn't turning into such a gimmicky game.
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hopefully with warhound i can go mech in tvp :-)
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I'm with you, none of the units look very exciting to me... and I was super excited about HotS before. Kinda makes me wanna play brood war!
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On October 24 2011 00:23 zOula... wrote:
I'm with you, none of the units look very exciting to me... and I was super excited about HotS before. Kinda makes me wanna play brood war!
Are you for real? Don't play brood war! It *sucks*!
Seriously though, feel free to drop by into the BW community (or even mix in both)! :D
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I think most every unit is terrible beyond the hellion thing and mini thor. Not that I think either of those are good but at least it addresses an issue with WoL in a logical manner.
I sort of let myself believe that HotS would be like a return to BW gameplay with a lot of changes to bring it back into the classic game management style instead of random units that do wacky neat things that are just stupid as hell in the end.
It's just all very Dustin Browdery
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On October 23 2011 23:35 Linkirvana wrote:
I assume from the tone in your blog that you have tested HotS already extensively?
I find it absolutely hilarious that you title your blog in a way like you're about to present an opinion, but then proceed to pretend like you're talking for all the community like some kind of bringer of objective truth.
I agree with you 100%.
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You make a few good points, except about the tempest. Have you tried pheonix vs muta? It is frustrating and I've lost so many games where I misclick (very slightly) for half a second and literally lose 5 of my 10 pheonix to his muta ball.I then literally don't have enough anti air and I lose. Same in PvT (Lose 1-2 early on? You lose), I don't even bother with them any more because it's such a fragile composition. You absolutely NEVER have equal resources dumped into pheonixes as he has mutas (The whole point of mutas is to get a bigger economy lead, and that aspect of the composition is a fact), and if you do have the pheonix numbers roaches will overrun (You don't have infinite energy on lifts) you and adding in several corrupters makes the pheonixes a moot unit anyways.
Believe me, you NEED AoE to deal with mutalisks and Protoss AA AoE is hard to come by. The Tempest is may very well be the singlehanded hope of Protoss.
... assuming they add carriers back in...
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I can't but help agree. I mean, the Oracle just looks like the most ridiculous thing I've seen.
You can now freeze mineral patches - but you can't attack at all with that unit. And these frozen mineral patches can be killed, what a waste of supply.
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QQ. Everyoneloves to bitch about units but they are missing the gamechanging things that will make hots a crazier game.
Protoss get recall or tp, meaning they dont need to commit to every engagement or run and lose sentrys and immortals as they kind of have to now.they also get a unit that can disable static defense so warp prism play will be even stronger.
Zerg gets disruption web\darkswarm of sorts to break siegelines anud balls of death. They also still have the infestor that can disable... fun times ahead.
Terran gets mines, so they dont have be like awww shux... guss i gotta basetrade ....everytime a bio drop or stupidly large flock of mutas gets into teir main.
The only real problem with hots so far is that early game scouting hasnt changed. Which makes p and z matchups more volatile. Oh and corruptors still suck.. how about instead of siphon they just get the ability to attack buildings.......
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I think the new units look "childish", the warhound looks like the robots from that Command and (something) game. (the one where u have pilots and different robots do complete missions).
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Part of the fun of expansions is be able to mess around on multiplayer and actually try some creative shit that doesn't get shut down instantly. However when we are largely fans of eSports it's a whole different matter to make a reckless expansion. I was VERY surprised that HotS is infact basically starting the balance from scratch again instead of just trying to work stuff around the edges so to speak.
On October 24 2011 00:00 warbaby wrote:
The idea that Blizz is adding units that are too hard to balance seems dubious. As we've seen, Blizz will remove broken units from SC2. If a new unit is very hard to balance, but eventually balance is reached, that means it's a complex and nuanced unit, and the sort of thing we probably want in the game -- it allows creative players to truly shine. For example, I really look forward to seeing how the Replicant is used at all skill levels, but especially by pros. If it ends up being truly imba, Blizz will fix or remove it.
Does the apparent difficulty of finding the correct bunker build time mean that the bunker is a complex and nuanced structure? I don't think that should be taken into account at all. A unit that is very hard to balance and eventually balanced may well only because many other elements had to be changed to allow it (ie; warp gates indirectly causing protoss gateway units to suck). It's not necessarily a good thing just because it eventually worked.
If they Replicant is what unit you are most interested in i honestly question your knowledge of the game. BW had the spell mind control and it was never used except as basically a joke at proscene. A feature like this is either too good, or just useless. Not to mention it's uncreative because it is just a variation of mind control, the fact we already knew mind control was useless should have been a hint.
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EPT
