• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:21
CEST 15:21
KST 22:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists4Team TLMC #5: Vote to Decide Ladder Maps!0
Community News
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)56Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition245.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119$2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 154
StarCraft 2
General
Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced! 5.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 15
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More Mutation # 491 Night Drive
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games Whose hotkey signature is this? ASL20 General Discussion Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Current Meta TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art Proposed Glossary of Strategic Uncertainty 9 hatch vs 10 hatch vs 12 hatch
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Stop the Construction US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts The Automated Ban List BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final
Blogs
How "Not Like Us" ripped of…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1411 users

A dota thing

Blogs > Bumblebee
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
Bumblebee
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
3237 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-01 09:37:15
October 14 2011 16:40 GMT
#1
[image loading]


DotA 2 has been in beta since The International at GamesCom and, mysteriously enough, I've been able to con my way to access the servers. And it's been amazing!

To give you a little bit of knowledge of my background in MOBA games, it's pretty much where I came from before, I went into StarCraft. I tried DotA a few times, but the WarCraft engine never got me hooked, but I liked the gameplay a lot. I've also played about 2000-2500 games of Heroes of Newerth at ~1900 rating. Lastly I also played a bit of League of Legends (around 250-300 games which got to me about level 30). In the few weeks, I've gotten to play the game, I have managed to play a few hundred games and maintain a ~71 % winrate.

My experience has been tremendous. But it's very much coloured by the fact that, deep down, I hate Heroes of Newerth and League of Legends. S2Games has been nothing but disappointing to me throughout the history of their game. It's horribly imbalanced and they just keep spitting out new heroes every second week without balancing the old ones a tiny bit. As for League of Legends, it's more so that it's a very different game than bad game-design, even though I think there's some basic flaws to the game. A little example could be that the flash ability "ruins" the game. But I'm not interested in getting into a huge debate about whether or not the other games are good. DotA2 is amazing, but it will not be the answers to your prayers and be your saving grace in a moment of desperation.

What's up with DotA?

A few things that are always (and need?) talked about when MOBA (..and beta) games are mentioned are how do you get into the game, hostile environment, game bugs, etc.

  • "I really want to get into DotA, but the environment is hostile and people just flame me," is something that is heard fairly often and it sucks. It really sucks to be known to have a hostile environment that is not very welcoming for new players and makes a lot of people not want to play the game. However there is two sides of the story as always ..and let me start out saying that I completely understand both sides of it.

    When you're new to the game and you play your first games, you literally have no idea of the game, the mechanics or the heroes. In a game of DotA, you need to understand the heroes (as units in StarCraft) and as soon as you don't do that, people tend to be quite aggressive towards you and blame you for a lot of things. This is the point where a lot of people just back and out and can't be bothered to play it anymore. Why? Because you're not having fun when people are blaming you, flaming you and insulting you in every way they can.

    It's kind of blatant, but what could help is if people were more forgiving and welcoming in their tone, and willingly to use some of their games on explaining new people what to do and what their role is. Unfortunately this is quite a big thing to do as there is a million heroes (no.. but it feels like it when you have to explain people the game) in the game and a lot of it comes with experience, but you can kind of draw a comparison to StarCraft with the roles on the team. If you're playing Collosi (your DPS which is often times called a carry in DotA), you need to have a lot of units that backs it up (support in DotA terms) or it will simply crumble in the teamfights and you will lose the game because of that.

    On the other side of the hill, you have the pro-gamers, the experienced users and just people who have been playing this (or these) games for a long time. And I can totally understand why sometimes it can be unbelievably frustrating to lose back to back games because you're playing with people who are completely new to the game. To me it's literally the most annoying thing that if you stomp your opponent and do your job super-well, but still ends up losing because of that one atrocious, new guy. It can sometimes just be too much for people who wish to play the game, be good and win. Not all people are interested in educating people and expect a certain standard of play; this is also why matchmakingrating is developed. But it's just the ever-debated thing about these type of games.

  • In context to the above, you will within no time acknowledge people really care about their games. As Heyoka stated to me; people care about dumb things. Things like a win/loss ratio, kill/death ratio and alike are things people really, really care about. This also leads to a lot of whining when things are not going the way you want them to.

  • Interestingly (and somewhat funny) you will also notice that there will be drawn a lot of comparisons to other games. If someone is doing badly, people who tend to whine accuse them of being LoL players. If someone is flaming and blaming everybody but himself, he's labelled a HoN player. Haha.

  • I'm not amazed as I kind of expected it, but the UI is really good. It's very easy to understand (except for X2-F1, what the fuck is that! It took me a little while to figure out that it was two times F1. Haha) and it's very friendly set up, especially the in-game hotkeys. As you can see on the picture, I posted below, it's actually set up as the in-game UI would look like. That way there's absolutely no excuse for not setting your hotkeys right or screwing them up.

  • For both the people watching and playing the game, it's really important to understand it's a game in progress. It's early beta and a lot of things are not implemented yet and there is still a lot of bugs in the games that needs to be figured out, no matter how annoying it can be to have them there. But for the sceptics: Valve is updating the game every Thursday; fixing bugs, adding new content such as sounds, heroes and other good stuff.

  • The spectating feature of the game is nothing but absolutely amazing. Some of you might have played other Valve games as Counter Strike 1.6 or Counter Strike: Source and is already aware of the HLTV or SourceTV possibilities in those game. In DotA, we have DotATV. It lets you spectate any game that is live at the moment and it lets you do it in amazing fashion.

    The features that you have in game are just.. Wow! The games are delayed with two minutes, which makes the directed camera feature a possibility. It controls the camera for you and takes you anywhere on the map where there's action going on so you won't miss any kill or gank attempt. Also there's a player perspective, but not only do you see his perspective (i.e. camera), you also see his mouse cursor, when he clicks and stuff alike. And there's of course a free camera as well.

    Besides that there's a broadcast feature, which makes broadcasters able to join the lobbies and broadcast the games as a "real" spectator and then people on DotATV can turn on the broadcasters on/off as they want to.

    Next to those features, there's all the standard stuff. A scoreboard, a board with gpm, xpm and that too. Instead of just numeric values, there's also graphs so you can see it shown on when a team is in the lead with gold earned or experience gained, etc. They've just done a really, really good job!

  • Another thing that I also feel needs to be mentioned is that Valve has implemented bots! I haven't actually tried it myself, but I know they're working really hard on making the bots good and so that people can actually improve their skill by playing against these. They've actually already implemented that you can "control" the bots by pinging, writing and other things (i.e. you can set up ganks, push, etc.). If this ends up being done well, it's another amazing feature for the game.



What do I want within a short time frame

In the long run, I think we all just want a perfect game (which will of course never happen, lol). But on a short term notice, there is a few things that I'd like to see implemented or fixed.

  • The ranged creeps aggro kind of weird, I think. It's like they sometimes prioritize me, the hero, over the creeps even though I'm just standing there. On the aggro aspect, the creeps also prioritize enemy heroes over the catapults. I don't really know if this how DotA was or meant to be like this, but it's definitely something I don't like.

  • I want to see my loved ones, Mortred & Troll, in the game!

  • I'd like a re-work of the Lion and Venomancer model. They're just not good looking. I also miss my Pandaraen Storm Spirit, but the Mexican is funny as hell!

  • I'd like to see some sort of banning pick or single draft in matchmaking instead of all pick only.



Congratulations to @8mmspikes and @staphu - I hope you'll enjoy your DotA 2 beta access!

Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/robinnymann



Pictures



****
There is no difference between a knight and any other man aside from what he wears. @robinnymann
Rainmaker5
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States1027 Posts
October 14 2011 17:02 GMT
#2
I like how in-depth the blog is and how tantalizing the prize is- 5/5
(-_(-_(-_(^_(-_(-_(-_-)_-)_-)_-)_-)_-)_-) CJ Fighting! "Beer -> soju -> whisky is a terrible build"~~ Scrarecrow.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 17:14:07
October 14 2011 17:06 GMT
#3
"I really want to get into DotA, but the environment is hostile and people just flame me," is something that is heard fairly often and it sucks


The thing about Dota and MOBA games in general is 2 reasons namely and the combination of that.
Step 1.It is a teamgame, and by this I mean a REAL teamgame, not a 40v40 or 16v16 deathmatch FPS were you can carry your team ridicilously hard by doing it right(you can, but this is impossible if your team is that bad, meaning you will have a hard laning phase and thus will be unable to farm up)
You are reliant upon your team for basically everything, you have to defend together, attack together, gank together, you need coordination and on a pub level this is often hard to find.

The second reason is the skill curve of Dota, it is really hard to be decent at the game if you have no idea how to play it, it takes a very long time before you can understand the game on even a basic level(E.G team roles, items, general lasthitting). These 2 reasons combined leads to a large amount of BM, the first thing people do in a teamgame when they lose is think logicallyblame their team mates, simply because you are reliant upon your team so much and that the general skill curve is so high.

Ow yeah I almost forgot, people play carry only because everyone thinks that their team is absolute shit, so this leads to ridicilously stupid lanes such as Juggernaut+Anti-mage on one lane or well any given choice. Which leads to rage.....alot of rage.

Yes people care about KD ratio and kills(people often steal from the carry even if they play support), this is annoying.(There were in fact clans which only accepted people with a KDR of a certain level, which is ridicilous because supports never get a good KDR, or should not).
The labeling other plays as hon and lol players idk but I haven't played Dota 2 so I can't comment on that. People are however on threads all the time laballed as the aforementioned simply because the games are so different, plus Dota/hon has a generally elitist attitude towards LoL(similair to BW>SC2).

I can't comment on the UI much but from what I saw at the Dota 2 tournament it has huge potential, the observer client is excellent and the game's graphics are tailored so that the audience has an idea what is going on(I was watching NASL HoN the other day and I couldn't see shit what was happening when Zephyr threw down his tornado)

The ranged creeps aggro kind of weird, I think. It's like they sometimes prioritize me, the hero, over the creeps even though I'm just standing there. On the aggro aspect, the creeps also prioritize enemy heroes over the catapults. I don't really know if this how DotA was or meant to be like this, but it's definitely something I don't like.


I don't remember this being in Dota 1, what happened was that creeps would ocasionally attack you when nearby(which basically meant you were hugging the enemy creeps while standing next to your own). You also gain aggro from the ranged creeps, or any creep really if you even click the enemy hero( a great way of pulling creeps to ''your side''. The catapults only prioritize towers as far as I know, for the rest they are fairly similair to regular creeps. This might be a difference in Dota 2 but Idk, .

Mortred and Troll warlord really-.-?useless heroes . Unless Mortred gets ridic fed that is and can 1v5 people with Battlefury, reaver,bkb and shit.

Personally I like the new lion model, remember that the WCIII model also looked like a clown basically so they brought it over quite well, also not a huge fan of venomancer but nothing beats it being a hydralisk which is not allowed.

And yes Storm spirit should be a panda .

CM and SD mode will be added later I am sure.

In the end you should play Dota, or moba games in general with friends. Not only makes this it more bearable as you have a general idea of people's skill levels, plus its more fun shouting at your friends and its incredibly fun if you can share your Godlike streak with your friends. Ow yeah, they can help you learn the game and improve and give constructive criticism, as well as make decisions on the fly for you which will improve your game sense.(such as calling out mias and judging where you need to go back, map awareness is a HUGE part of the game)

Also I hate the term MOBA.
WriterXiao8~~
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12237 Posts
October 14 2011 17:06 GMT
#4
Good post. I'm in the beta as well and was really intimidated by what's commonly understood to be the hostile atmosphere that surrounds MOBA games. I never actually played a full game with humans, only spectated a couple of games, to try and pick up common strategies and learn by watching. Once the bot patch arrived last week, that gave me an opportunity to learn how to play hands-on at my own pace without worry of being yelled at or belittled for being a newb. I took the advice of some posters in the DotA subforum here and am nearly ready to play with actual people.

The bots themselves are pretty smart. They deny constantly, they're really good at coordinating with each other, and although I don't have the knowhow to control them, they seem to do pretty well at making their own decisions. They target the weakest heroes, they take calculated risks, and overall I would estimate that they're around the level of a mediocre player.
Moderator
shinlh
Profile Joined September 2011
Brazil4 Posts
October 14 2011 17:07 GMT
#5
So... do we have to post a reply here or what?
rupert
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
182 Posts
October 14 2011 17:08 GMT
#6
darn it. I guess I was too slow for the tweet Do I still have a chance?
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 17:17:24
October 14 2011 17:10 GMT
#7
--- Nuked ---
Bumblebee
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
3237 Posts
October 14 2011 17:10 GMT
#8
On October 15 2011 02:07 shinlh wrote:
So... do we have to post a reply here or what?

No, follow me on twitter and throw me a tweet there with any comment including DotA2.

On October 15 2011 02:08 rupert wrote:
darn it. I guess I was too slow for the tweet Do I still have a chance?

Oh, I didn't mention it. But it will go on for some days before I choose people, so you will all have a chance. It's not about being the fastest and browse TL all the time. :-) I will randomly choose some people in a few days.
There is no difference between a knight and any other man aside from what he wears. @robinnymann
rupert
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
182 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 17:21:57
October 14 2011 17:14 GMT
#9
On October 15 2011 02:10 Bumblebee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 02:07 shinlh wrote:
So... do we have to post a reply here or what?

No, follow me on twitter and throw me a tweet there with any comment including DotA2.

Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 02:08 rupert wrote:
darn it. I guess I was too slow for the tweet Do I still have a chance?

Oh, I didn't mention it. But it will go on for some days before I choose people, so you will all have a chance. It's not about being the fastest and browse TL all the time. :-) I will randomly choose some people in a few days.

Thanks for the info I honestly have no idea what I'm doing on Twitter, I probably sent the reply twice because I couldn't see my first one. Oh well.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
October 14 2011 17:25 GMT
#10
ughhhhhhhhh I WANT THAT BETA KEY

But I don't have Twitter ):
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
doucheplayer
Profile Joined October 2011
1 Post
October 14 2011 17:27 GMT
#11
gibe dota key plis.
PurgeGamers
Profile Joined October 2011
17 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 17:35:37
October 14 2011 17:34 GMT
#12
A heads up about the catapult thing and creep aggro. Creeps will basically attack the first target they come to. If the target they come to runs out of range, they will attack the next closest.

They will attack catapults if there is nothing else around, but they are lowest priority. If they are attacking a catapult and anything else shows up, they attack that instead. This is an important mechanic that essentially keeps catapults alive more often, which means creep waves are more likely to push towers, because catapults are really good against towers. Ultimately, this means games are faster(which is important as Dota games are long usually).

Creeps also are pulled to attack enemy heroes if an enemy hero within range right clicks an allied hero. Spells(or orbs like drow frost arrow) do not set this off.

That is pretty much all of the basics of Dota creeps. It functions the same way as they do in Dota 1.
rupert
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
182 Posts
October 14 2011 17:34 GMT
#13
On October 15 2011 02:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
ughhhhhhhhh I WANT THAT BETA KEY

But I don't have Twitter ):

You can make an account just for the giveaway, it's exactly what I did. Dedication indeed.
flip4life
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1 Post
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 17:36:39
October 14 2011 17:36 GMT
#14
I will love you long time if I win the dota 2 beta key (;
Zertoxo
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany67 Posts
October 14 2011 17:38 GMT
#15
i hope i did it right :D
Sm3agol
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2055 Posts
October 14 2011 17:42 GMT
#16
i want this beta......SO BAD.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
October 14 2011 17:43 GMT
#17
On October 15 2011 02:34 rupert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 02:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
ughhhhhhhhh I WANT THAT BETA KEY

But I don't have Twitter ):

You can make an account just for the giveaway, it's exactly what I did. Dedication indeed.


That's how they get you.

I guess I will D:
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
October 14 2011 17:48 GMT
#18
Rofl, I chose Starscream since he's Bumblebee :B I just tweeted for the first time.
I think I did it right, I dunno if I was suppose to retweet or reply ._.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
duckii
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany1017 Posts
October 14 2011 17:48 GMT
#19
phew, I thought I was too late
Nice blog Bumblebee.
I play mostly with friends and when we get randoms in our team we try to be helpful, but it doesn"t always work out . Anyway, I'll welcome every new player in dota2.
SneakyAZN
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States200 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-14 17:50:33
October 14 2011 17:48 GMT
#20
same i made a twitter account for all the competitions for keys T_T

EDIT: great write-up btw was a nice read!
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
Masters Cup #150 Qualifier
Liquipedia
Map Test Tournament
11:00
TLMC #15: Group D
WardiTV943
ComeBackTV 499
IndyStarCraft 209
Rex115
3DClanTV 51
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko410
IndyStarCraft 204
LamboSC2 165
Rex 118
ProTech77
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 7304
Bisu 2915
Shuttle 1668
Killer 1106
Hyuk 671
EffOrt 429
Mini 421
firebathero 342
Stork 319
Soma 316
[ Show more ]
Larva 311
BeSt 288
ZerO 251
Hyun 233
Light 219
PianO 151
Soulkey 127
soO 91
Rush 86
Mind 73
Mong 61
Sea.KH 61
JulyZerg 57
sorry 56
Sharp 51
ToSsGirL 51
Aegong 50
Sacsri 43
Shinee 32
zelot 29
Shine 27
Yoon 26
Free 22
Backho 21
Nal_rA 14
Terrorterran 13
HiyA 13
scan(afreeca) 12
SilentControl 10
Noble 7
Dota 2
Gorgc6003
qojqva2291
XcaliburYe285
XaKoH 264
420jenkins214
Counter-Strike
fl0m1769
Other Games
singsing2515
B2W.Neo951
hiko597
crisheroes345
mouzStarbuck162
Hui .140
RotterdaM56
ArmadaUGS46
QueenE43
djWHEAT23
ZerO(Twitch)9
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1005
lovetv 15
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 22
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2095
• WagamamaTV351
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
13h 40m
CranKy Ducklings
20h 40m
Map Test Tournament
21h 40m
OSC
1d 1h
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 4h
Safe House 2
1d 4h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
Map Test Tournament
1d 21h
OSC
1d 22h
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Art_Of_Turtle
Razz vs rasowy
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
Maestros of the Game
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
WardiTV TLMC #15
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.