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Well, like any other, or at least most, Zergs, I hate ZvZ. But I really want to learn the matchup and get better with it, so I don't dread laddering so much.
Before today, I just did 14/14 baneling busts. But I told myself that I will try to get better at playing a more macro style of ZvZ, and the first game I tried doing it, it worked very well. Hopefully, within the next week or so, my ZvZ will improve and I won't be afraid to ladder. And since ZvZ is the only thing holding me back, I will probably get to Diamond (EEEEEK!!!).
Also, if you haven't seen my previous blog, I've started posting FPVOD's on YouTube, so you can check me out there at http://www.youtube.com/ItisisSC (a more macro focused ZvZ is currently being uploaded). The videos will probably always be me talking to friends on Skype while playing (ladder/practice games/custom games[maybe]), so kinda like a stream, but not live, since the internet where I live is really bad.
Thank you for your time! :D
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ZvZ in SC2 is worse than in BW. I hate it so much I switched to T.
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On October 12 2011 14:13 PH wrote:
ZvZ in SC2 is worse than in BW. I hate it so much I switched to T.
What league were you in with Z?
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I'm a Protoss player, but from watching ZvZ it seems pretty basic in principle.
Open some kind of Pool-gas or gas-pool build (or hatch first on some maps,) get speed asap with a decent number of zerglings.
Position overlords outside the exit of his natural. Use lings to scout. Get a baneling nest.
If he opened more economically than you, you should try to do damage with banelings/lings. If you opened more economically you defend. Have 1 spine, because if he has a ling advantage it keeps him from sending in few lings at a time to snipe banelings.
So, defend with ling/baneling/spine, while droning up, then put down an evo chamber or 2, and transition to roach, and then take your third.
Roach defense openings aren't as good imo, because they can lose to ling all-ins without a baneling nest.
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In principle yes, in being able to do what you just said every game in ZvZ no. 6 pool spine crawler rush is up at 2:30 making a drone scout needed. Even if you try to punish or get an eco lead, the aspect of watching your banelings the whole game so they dont die to one ling is the stupidest thing in SC2. Then you have baneling/ling vs baneling/ling and that is just stupid... It's a coinflip your gonna win/lose.
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You don't need to drone scout a 6 pool to defend it, unless you are making an extremely late pool. It's pretty much a free win build or at the very very worst coming out about even.
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On October 12 2011 15:52 HikariPrime wrote:
In principle yes, in being able to do what you just said every game in ZvZ no. 6 pool spine crawler rush is up at 2:30 making a drone scout needed. Even if you try to punish or get an eco lead, the aspect of watching your banelings the whole game so they dont die to one ling is the stupidest thing in SC2. Then you have baneling/ling vs baneling/ling and that is just stupid... It's a coinflip your gonna win/lose.
I agree completely. I refuse to use Banelings in ZvZ now because one tiny mistake, or even a bit of lag, can cost you all your Banelings, and he can just go and kill all of your lings, then you auto lose.
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On October 12 2011 14:19 Kiarip wrote:
I'm a Protoss player, but from watching ZvZ it seems pretty basic in principle.
Open some kind of Pool-gas or gas-pool build (or hatch first on some maps,) get speed asap with a decent number of zerglings.
Position overlords outside the exit of his natural. Use lings to scout. Get a baneling nest.
If he opened more economically than you, you should try to do damage with banelings/lings. If you opened more economically you defend. Have 1 spine, because if he has a ling advantage it keeps him from sending in few lings at a time to snipe banelings.
So, defend with ling/baneling/spine, while droning up, then put down an evo chamber or 2, and transition to roach, and then take your third.
Roach defense openings aren't as good imo, because they can lose to ling all-ins without a baneling nest.
Easier said than done. You have to play like a hypocrit in ZvZ, by getting away with as many drones as possible, but punishing him for droning too much. Which is what makes it really hard, since you have to constantly be scout and you have to be very careful with how you spend your larva. Plus, the defenders advantage when punishing him for droning too much is HUGE since he can make a lot of stuff at once, and by the time you get to his base, he could have more units than you and more drones. So yeah, ZvZ is SO much harder than how you described. Most likely the hardest matchup in the game in terms of decision-making (once you get past all the early game BS, that is).
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EPT
