• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:58
CEST 06:58
KST 13:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview3[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced9
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ (Spoiler) Asl ro8 D winner interview BW General Discussion Do we have a pimpest plays list? AI Question
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Daigo vs Menard Best of 10
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Movie Stars In Video Games: …
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1852 users

On the Subject of Balance and Statistics

Blogs > darthcaesar
Post a Reply
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
September 26 2011 19:33 GMT
#1
I just wanted to throw this out there because I've had some discussions about it with friends and it seems a worthwhile topic for further discussion.

Let me start explaining my point of view by the following: A correlation does not imply a causation. It seems a fact that is too often ignored. I've heard some people say, for example, that they've read studies that show that people with more than 2 hours of screen time (TV, computer) per day have a larger chance to be obese and have heart problems, etc. This led some to believe that reducing your daily screen time to less than 2 hours would decrease your chances of obesity and heart problems.

I think it's clear that this line of reasoning doesn't work - there are simpler counter-examples in which a correlation of two completely irrelevant variables is compared, but I think this one shows that even if the variables are connected, they don't actually imply much. A correlation does not imply a causation.

Let's get back on the subject of StarCraft II. Many people like to use the argument of "In GSL, X percent of ZvP are won by zerg, hence imba!" Now, it's necessary to point out that though a correlation does not imply a causation, it does not deny it either. That said, the win rate argument seems quite silly to me. While it can certainly support an argument in which one side claims imbalance, it cannot be the basis for an argument. It can certainly be a cause for investigation as to the cause of potential imbalance, but one cannot say something like "ZvP winrate is 65%, therefore zerg is imbalanced" or "ZvP winrate is 65%, therefore infestor is imbalanced".

It might seem obvious that this is true, but every time you hear (or read ) players using statistics to argue balance, ask yourself if they are using the statistics as a basis for their argument or whether they have an actual gameplay-based argument that they use statistics to support. It's surprising to me how many people actually fall into the former category.

The main counter-argument I've heard is that the winrate statistic is not a correlation, merely a statistic. If you are talking about balance, however, then you are essentially projecting the past winrate to the present and future, thus adding another variable, time. You are essentially saying that there is a correlation between winrate and time. After this, someone might argue that the game has not changed since the time the winrate was recorded (assuming no patch, obviously). However, that is not taking into account the metagame state.

Imagine a world in which MLG Anaheim never happened and the SlayerS team didn't come up with various new ways to abuse the blue flame hellion. Imagine that it stayed in obscurity. Would it have been patched? I tend to think that it would not. What happened with blue-flame hellions is an example of a metagame shift. Nothing changed balance-wise, but Terrans discovered the potency of the blue-flame hellion. This sort of occurrence means that even if no patch is released, the winrates of the various matchups will vary due to metagame shifts.

Until we are absolutely certain that every single possibility in the game given a certain patch has been explored, the metagame is bound to shift around. Eventually, once all possibilities are uncovered, the winrates will be steady and more reliable as a source of discerning balance. The false assumption that many who argue balance using winrates make is that the winrates are already steady, thus implying that every possibility has already been explored. Personally, I believe that it would take years to explore every possibility, but this point could be argued.

Thoughts?

tl;dr - Apply the rule of "Correlation does not imply causation to StarCraft 2 statistics as a method of arguing balance. Use the actual game, not the numbers."

*****
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 32m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 106
RuFF_SC2 0
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5428
Noble 16
SilentControl 15
Icarus 8
Dota 2
monkeys_forever534
NeuroSwarm101
Counter-Strike
tarik_tv4766
m0e_tv485
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King128
Other Games
summit1g7946
C9.Mang0629
WinterStarcraft383
Sick214
ViBE89
ROOTCatZ8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1078
BasetradeTV352
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream29
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 41
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1051
• Rush786
• Stunt406
Upcoming Events
GSL
4h 32m
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
OSC
6h 2m
OSC
8h 2m
Replay Cast
19h 2m
Escore
1d 5h
The PondCast
1d 5h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 6h
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
Big Brain Bouts
1d 11h
Fjant vs Bly
Serral vs Shameless
OSC
1d 17h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
BSL
3 days
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soma vs Leta
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-05
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W6
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.