• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 20:30
CET 02:30
KST 10:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced1[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge
Tourneys
Tenacious Turtle Tussle [Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Which season is the best in ASL? Data analysis on 70 million replays sas.vorti stream [BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET [BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread The Perfect Game Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1831 users

On the Subject of Balance and Statistics

Blogs > darthcaesar
Post a Reply
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
September 26 2011 19:33 GMT
#1
I just wanted to throw this out there because I've had some discussions about it with friends and it seems a worthwhile topic for further discussion.

Let me start explaining my point of view by the following: A correlation does not imply a causation. It seems a fact that is too often ignored. I've heard some people say, for example, that they've read studies that show that people with more than 2 hours of screen time (TV, computer) per day have a larger chance to be obese and have heart problems, etc. This led some to believe that reducing your daily screen time to less than 2 hours would decrease your chances of obesity and heart problems.

I think it's clear that this line of reasoning doesn't work - there are simpler counter-examples in which a correlation of two completely irrelevant variables is compared, but I think this one shows that even if the variables are connected, they don't actually imply much. A correlation does not imply a causation.

Let's get back on the subject of StarCraft II. Many people like to use the argument of "In GSL, X percent of ZvP are won by zerg, hence imba!" Now, it's necessary to point out that though a correlation does not imply a causation, it does not deny it either. That said, the win rate argument seems quite silly to me. While it can certainly support an argument in which one side claims imbalance, it cannot be the basis for an argument. It can certainly be a cause for investigation as to the cause of potential imbalance, but one cannot say something like "ZvP winrate is 65%, therefore zerg is imbalanced" or "ZvP winrate is 65%, therefore infestor is imbalanced".

It might seem obvious that this is true, but every time you hear (or read ) players using statistics to argue balance, ask yourself if they are using the statistics as a basis for their argument or whether they have an actual gameplay-based argument that they use statistics to support. It's surprising to me how many people actually fall into the former category.

The main counter-argument I've heard is that the winrate statistic is not a correlation, merely a statistic. If you are talking about balance, however, then you are essentially projecting the past winrate to the present and future, thus adding another variable, time. You are essentially saying that there is a correlation between winrate and time. After this, someone might argue that the game has not changed since the time the winrate was recorded (assuming no patch, obviously). However, that is not taking into account the metagame state.

Imagine a world in which MLG Anaheim never happened and the SlayerS team didn't come up with various new ways to abuse the blue flame hellion. Imagine that it stayed in obscurity. Would it have been patched? I tend to think that it would not. What happened with blue-flame hellions is an example of a metagame shift. Nothing changed balance-wise, but Terrans discovered the potency of the blue-flame hellion. This sort of occurrence means that even if no patch is released, the winrates of the various matchups will vary due to metagame shifts.

Until we are absolutely certain that every single possibility in the game given a certain patch has been explored, the metagame is bound to shift around. Eventually, once all possibilities are uncovered, the winrates will be steady and more reliable as a source of discerning balance. The false assumption that many who argue balance using winrates make is that the winrates are already steady, thus implying that every possibility has already been explored. Personally, I believe that it would take years to explore every possibility, but this point could be argued.

Thoughts?

tl;dr - Apply the rule of "Correlation does not imply causation to StarCraft 2 statistics as a method of arguing balance. Use the actual game, not the numbers."

*****
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2025 KFC Monthly #3 - Day 1
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft442
elazer 144
PiLiPiLi 9
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4288
Artosis 761
Larva 350
ggaemo 115
NaDa 10
Dota 2
monkeys_forever530
syndereN438
Counter-Strike
Fnx 62
minikerr36
Other Games
tarik_tv5728
shahzam745
JimRising 485
ToD299
Mew2King179
Maynarde136
PPMD44
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream260
StarCraft 2
CranKy Ducklings117
Other Games
BasetradeTV38
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 59
• davetesta30
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22092
• Ler695
Other Games
• Scarra1325
Upcoming Events
OSC
15h 30m
LAN Event
16h 30m
Replay Cast
21h 30m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 10h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

SOOP Univ League 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.