• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 13:50
CET 19:50
KST 03:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !3Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win2Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
Why is linen the most comfortable fabric? How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2026 users

On the Subject of Balance and Statistics

Blogs > darthcaesar
Post a Reply
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
September 26 2011 19:33 GMT
#1
I just wanted to throw this out there because I've had some discussions about it with friends and it seems a worthwhile topic for further discussion.

Let me start explaining my point of view by the following: A correlation does not imply a causation. It seems a fact that is too often ignored. I've heard some people say, for example, that they've read studies that show that people with more than 2 hours of screen time (TV, computer) per day have a larger chance to be obese and have heart problems, etc. This led some to believe that reducing your daily screen time to less than 2 hours would decrease your chances of obesity and heart problems.

I think it's clear that this line of reasoning doesn't work - there are simpler counter-examples in which a correlation of two completely irrelevant variables is compared, but I think this one shows that even if the variables are connected, they don't actually imply much. A correlation does not imply a causation.

Let's get back on the subject of StarCraft II. Many people like to use the argument of "In GSL, X percent of ZvP are won by zerg, hence imba!" Now, it's necessary to point out that though a correlation does not imply a causation, it does not deny it either. That said, the win rate argument seems quite silly to me. While it can certainly support an argument in which one side claims imbalance, it cannot be the basis for an argument. It can certainly be a cause for investigation as to the cause of potential imbalance, but one cannot say something like "ZvP winrate is 65%, therefore zerg is imbalanced" or "ZvP winrate is 65%, therefore infestor is imbalanced".

It might seem obvious that this is true, but every time you hear (or read ) players using statistics to argue balance, ask yourself if they are using the statistics as a basis for their argument or whether they have an actual gameplay-based argument that they use statistics to support. It's surprising to me how many people actually fall into the former category.

The main counter-argument I've heard is that the winrate statistic is not a correlation, merely a statistic. If you are talking about balance, however, then you are essentially projecting the past winrate to the present and future, thus adding another variable, time. You are essentially saying that there is a correlation between winrate and time. After this, someone might argue that the game has not changed since the time the winrate was recorded (assuming no patch, obviously). However, that is not taking into account the metagame state.

Imagine a world in which MLG Anaheim never happened and the SlayerS team didn't come up with various new ways to abuse the blue flame hellion. Imagine that it stayed in obscurity. Would it have been patched? I tend to think that it would not. What happened with blue-flame hellions is an example of a metagame shift. Nothing changed balance-wise, but Terrans discovered the potency of the blue-flame hellion. This sort of occurrence means that even if no patch is released, the winrates of the various matchups will vary due to metagame shifts.

Until we are absolutely certain that every single possibility in the game given a certain patch has been explored, the metagame is bound to shift around. Eventually, once all possibilities are uncovered, the winrates will be steady and more reliable as a source of discerning balance. The false assumption that many who argue balance using winrates make is that the winrates are already steady, thus implying that every possibility has already been explored. Personally, I believe that it would take years to explore every possibility, but this point could be argued.

Thoughts?

tl;dr - Apply the rule of "Correlation does not imply causation to StarCraft 2 statistics as a method of arguing balance. Use the actual game, not the numbers."

*****
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
17:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #17
Percival vs YoungYakovLIVE!
Shameless vs TBD
SteadfastSC274
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 274
ProTech139
BRAT_OK 100
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 18237
Calm 1919
Jaedong 549
actioN 431
EffOrt 373
Dewaltoss 149
ggaemo 114
Hyun 94
Bonyth 91
Mong 63
[ Show more ]
Mind 27
Movie 26
yabsab 18
Shine 10
Dota 2
Gorgc5497
singsing2945
qojqva2864
Dendi936
Counter-Strike
fl0m1266
Foxcn277
minikerr24
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu84
Other Games
FrodaN1145
Beastyqt583
ceh9485
Fuzer 366
B2W.Neo366
ArmadaUGS156
C9.Mang0117
XaKoH 108
QueenE92
Trikslyr57
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 49
• Reevou 5
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 21
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV639
• lizZardDota251
League of Legends
• Nemesis3993
• TFBlade981
Other Games
• imaqtpie811
• Shiphtur141
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
15h 10m
WardiTV 2025
18h 10m
Cure vs Creator
TBD vs Solar
WardiTV 2025
1d 16h
OSC
1d 19h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.