• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:18
CEST 12:18
KST 19:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch0Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D Soulkey on ASL S20 BW General Discussion NaDa's Body A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Borderlands 3 General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2883 users

On the Subject of Balance and Statistics

Blogs > darthcaesar
Post a Reply
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
September 26 2011 19:33 GMT
#1
I just wanted to throw this out there because I've had some discussions about it with friends and it seems a worthwhile topic for further discussion.

Let me start explaining my point of view by the following: A correlation does not imply a causation. It seems a fact that is too often ignored. I've heard some people say, for example, that they've read studies that show that people with more than 2 hours of screen time (TV, computer) per day have a larger chance to be obese and have heart problems, etc. This led some to believe that reducing your daily screen time to less than 2 hours would decrease your chances of obesity and heart problems.

I think it's clear that this line of reasoning doesn't work - there are simpler counter-examples in which a correlation of two completely irrelevant variables is compared, but I think this one shows that even if the variables are connected, they don't actually imply much. A correlation does not imply a causation.

Let's get back on the subject of StarCraft II. Many people like to use the argument of "In GSL, X percent of ZvP are won by zerg, hence imba!" Now, it's necessary to point out that though a correlation does not imply a causation, it does not deny it either. That said, the win rate argument seems quite silly to me. While it can certainly support an argument in which one side claims imbalance, it cannot be the basis for an argument. It can certainly be a cause for investigation as to the cause of potential imbalance, but one cannot say something like "ZvP winrate is 65%, therefore zerg is imbalanced" or "ZvP winrate is 65%, therefore infestor is imbalanced".

It might seem obvious that this is true, but every time you hear (or read ) players using statistics to argue balance, ask yourself if they are using the statistics as a basis for their argument or whether they have an actual gameplay-based argument that they use statistics to support. It's surprising to me how many people actually fall into the former category.

The main counter-argument I've heard is that the winrate statistic is not a correlation, merely a statistic. If you are talking about balance, however, then you are essentially projecting the past winrate to the present and future, thus adding another variable, time. You are essentially saying that there is a correlation between winrate and time. After this, someone might argue that the game has not changed since the time the winrate was recorded (assuming no patch, obviously). However, that is not taking into account the metagame state.

Imagine a world in which MLG Anaheim never happened and the SlayerS team didn't come up with various new ways to abuse the blue flame hellion. Imagine that it stayed in obscurity. Would it have been patched? I tend to think that it would not. What happened with blue-flame hellions is an example of a metagame shift. Nothing changed balance-wise, but Terrans discovered the potency of the blue-flame hellion. This sort of occurrence means that even if no patch is released, the winrates of the various matchups will vary due to metagame shifts.

Until we are absolutely certain that every single possibility in the game given a certain patch has been explored, the metagame is bound to shift around. Eventually, once all possibilities are uncovered, the winrates will be steady and more reliable as a source of discerning balance. The false assumption that many who argue balance using winrates make is that the winrates are already steady, thus implying that every possibility has already been explored. Personally, I believe that it would take years to explore every possibility, but this point could be argued.

Thoughts?

tl;dr - Apply the rule of "Correlation does not imply causation to StarCraft 2 statistics as a method of arguing balance. Use the actual game, not the numbers."

*****
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 2: Playoffs Day 5
Maru vs ReynorLIVE!
Cure vs TriGGeR
Tasteless478
Crank 386
IndyStarCraft 83
CranKy Ducklings56
Rex48
3DClanTV 41
IntoTheiNu 19
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 478
Crank 386
IndyStarCraft 83
Rex 48
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 6941
Bisu 919
Horang2 392
Hyuk 322
Stork 279
actioN 276
Pusan 178
Mini 133
Hyun 129
ZerO 111
[ Show more ]
Light 93
Soma 88
Snow 88
EffOrt 76
Dewaltoss 75
sorry 63
ToSsGirL 59
HiyA 58
Liquid`Ret 42
Last 41
Sharp 31
Free 26
Rush 20
Mind 18
scan(afreeca) 13
SilentControl 13
Sexy 11
Terrorterran 3
ggaemo 0
Dota 2
singsing2065
XcaliburYe197
League of Legends
JimRising 343
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1585
shoxiejesuss602
allub215
x6flipin208
Other Games
XaKoH 147
NeuroSwarm60
Trikslyr14
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 503
lovetv 293
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1440
• Stunt614
Other Games
• WagamamaTV156
Upcoming Events
Map Test Tournament
42m
The PondCast
2h 42m
RSL Revival
23h 42m
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
1d 16h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 21h
RSL Revival
1d 23h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Online Event
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.