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lol, I guess even with the decreased movement, you could still use overseers to scout, since you could just cast dark swarm and move the overseer in and allow it to get inside the base without dying.
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I think it would be way to good, to be honest with you.
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Bad idea, they just made overseer cheaper on gas for a reason.
Id love to have dark swarm but not at the cost of having slow, expensive overseers
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Eh, the last thing SC2 needs is more aoe imo. 
So many better things to borrow from BW. Start with proper Carrier/interceptor range mechanic. -_-
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On September 24 2011 06:57 Emporio wrote:
lol, I guess even with the decreased movement, you could still use overseers to scout, since you could just cast dark swarm and move the overseer in and allow it to get inside the base without dying.
Just works with ground
As someone said, if bw, back in his release time were being balanced by blizz and the users. The lurker and the defiler wouldn't have made it into the game.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
No, overpowerd as hell, especially with creep speed zerglings and the clumping mechanism
also
Fungal+Dark swarm
.......
sup bro?
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Dark swarm was such a fun spell but i would have to disagree because then zerg would actually be suppppeeeerrrr broken why? Hydralisk and Roaches perform a meele attack when they are close enough to enemy units. So by allowing DS back in zergs could effectively demolish every thing because terran has no meele units early on and toss only has zealots to get rofl stomped.
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Dark swarm would be insane in SC2. It just doesn't fit, as cool as it is.
Way to much room for abuse.
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10387 Posts
Dark swarm is too cool for sc2
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On September 24 2011 07:07 PassiveAce wrote:
Dark swarm would be insane in SC2. It just doesn't fit, as cool as it is.
Way to much room for abuse.
I'm inclined to agree, with no limit to how many units you can control, plus smart-casting, and the fact that no terran units can hit under dark swarm. Right? In BW you at least had firebats who could do damage, but that was the only real "melee" unit that terran had, so really darkswarm would be like AOE poweroverwhelming against t.
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On September 24 2011 07:14 EcterA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 07:07 PassiveAce wrote:
Dark swarm would be insane in SC2. It just doesn't fit, as cool as it is.
Way to much room for abuse. I'm inclined to agree, with no limit to how many units you can control, plus smart-casting, and the fact that no terran units can hit under dark swarm. Right? In BW you at least had firebats who could do damage, but that was the only real "melee" unit that terran had, so really darkswarm would be like AOE poweroverwhelming against t.
Wouldn't hellions hit under darkswarm??
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Nah, I don't like it. I think that increasing the cost and build time of the Overseer, along with decreasing its movement speed, would make Zerg too vulnerable to cloaked units. Not to mention that Dark Swarm would be OP. Like, totally broken.
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Wouldn't work with SC2 supermegaultra-noob-friendly mechanics. Casting a corridor of zerg immortality in SC2 would take no effort at all.... just as seen with FFs, storms, FGs and so on...
There are many aspects of BW which made it the perfect game and requires the player to have a minimum skill (no smartcasting, limited selection, no MBS, etc) which applied to a dumbed down version of the game would just not work.
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Well there's already a mutant version of the Dark Swarm in SC2. It is the Point Defense Drone. But even so, simply adding that to the game without balancing anything else would be unreasonable.
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Fungal needs to go and change back into plague if you're putting dark swarm in the game. Also as mentioned increasing cost / build time of overseer is bad unless you give zerg more detection.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On September 24 2011 07:23 NuKedUFirst wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 07:14 EcterA wrote:On September 24 2011 07:07 PassiveAce wrote:
Dark swarm would be insane in SC2. It just doesn't fit, as cool as it is.
Way to much room for abuse. I'm inclined to agree, with no limit to how many units you can control, plus smart-casting, and the fact that no terran units can hit under dark swarm. Right? In BW you at least had firebats who could do damage, but that was the only real "melee" unit that terran had, so really darkswarm would be like AOE poweroverwhelming against t. Wouldn't hellions hit under darkswarm??
Yes and no, their splash damage would hit but their main target wouldn't be hit, they'd still do damage.
Same with siege tanks, their splash would hit but their main target would be invurnable.
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i like the idea, too bad blizzard isnt lurking this thread right now
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Dark swarm would be waaaaaay too good on overseers I feel. They would be the only spellcasters to cost no supply so you could mass them up lategame and have infinity swarms with a huge army. Also by design, I don't really like the idea. Either get defilers back in because they're cool or put it on the infestor, but I'm very leery of that. Fungal, IT, NP, and then dark swarm all on one unit would not be desirable at all.
idk. It doesn't fit overseers to have that type of support role. Overlords poop creep, depots wall in and pylons warp in. It feels out of place to have dark swarm on overseers. Added time and cost on overseers would also make scouting and detection very difficult.
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That would be a terrible terrible joke if it came through.... Having a spell like DS on a 50 gas no food unit. No thanks ^^
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On September 24 2011 07:07 DreamChaser wrote:
Dark swarm was such a fun spell but i would have to disagree because then zerg would actually be suppppeeeerrrr broken why? Hydralisk and Roaches perform a meele attack when they are close enough to enemy units. So by allowing DS back in zergs could effectively demolish every thing because terran has no meele units early on and toss only has zealots to get rofl stomped.
Perhaps T are getting a unit that would be able to counter it?
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So much for stalker ball.
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On September 24 2011 07:29 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 07:23 NuKedUFirst wrote:On September 24 2011 07:14 EcterA wrote:On September 24 2011 07:07 PassiveAce wrote:
Dark swarm would be insane in SC2. It just doesn't fit, as cool as it is.
Way to much room for abuse. I'm inclined to agree, with no limit to how many units you can control, plus smart-casting, and the fact that no terran units can hit under dark swarm. Right? In BW you at least had firebats who could do damage, but that was the only real "melee" unit that terran had, so really darkswarm would be like AOE poweroverwhelming against t. Wouldn't hellions hit under darkswarm?? Yes and no, their splash damage would hit but their main target wouldn't be hit, they'd still do damage. Same with siege tanks, their splash would hit but their main target would be invurnable.
Their attack is the same as a lurker's so it actually would hit completely.
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United States10393 Posts
On September 24 2011 07:40 Yamulo wrote:
That would be a terrible terrible joke if it came through.... Having a spell like DS on a 50 gas no food unit. No thanks ^^
Yeah you wanna read my entire thing before you assume that I'm not trying to change the cost? Lmao, please read first before commenting so you fully understand the idea.
Back to the thread: What about if I were to make it no consume? terran just needs to make a couple of ghosts to EMP while toss can easily just feedback? will put this in the edit.
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On September 24 2011 08:15 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 07:40 Yamulo wrote:
That would be a terrible terrible joke if it came through.... Having a spell like DS on a 50 gas no food unit. No thanks ^^ Yeah you wanna read my entire thing before you assume that I'm not trying to change the cost? Lmao, please read first before commenting so you fully understand the idea. Back to the thread: What about if I were to make it no consume? terran just needs to make a couple of ghosts to EMP while toss can easily just feedback? will put this in the edit.
It'd still be ridiculously broken, especially if you got it at lair. That's part of the reason Dark Swarm was such a great spell to go for, it was an end game spell.
You couldn't stumble upon it at like, 6 minutes into the game, and then just totally rape face
you'd have to change something about it drastically, either make it basically use all of an overseer's energy, no consume, or something equally ridiculous.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Would still be overpowerd, an overseer is too mobile(even with a slower overseer, air gives alot of advantages)even if it was implemented it would have to be hive tech minimum
and due to the clumping mechanic and fungal growth it would still be way too strong, coupled with smartcasting.
Also, the power of dark swarm is not neccesarily that you put it on enemy when you engage, but it is also incredibly strong at defending, you need a decent amount science vessels with your bio or alot of mech in BW attempting to destroy lurkers with swarm on top of that. Its not only a very powerfull offensive tool, but also an incredible good defensive tool.
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Mass bane with ds,4 full nrg infestor drop + dark swarm with infested marines in your base gl. With no siege unit for the zerg and the banes DS is a joke.....
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That might work. Contaminate is something I never found to be very useful except in ZvZ matchups. Dark Swarm would be a good substitute, but I would hate it when people call "imba" on that. Then again.... I wouldn't mind it as well. 
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Dark swarm made the cut into SC2, it's called PDD. I've said it before, there really isn't that much in SC2 that wasn't in SC1, it's just been mashed up. I think it would be silly to duplicate the ability, but do think something needs to be added to the overseer. My personal favorite idea is a mash-up of Parasite and Blind which would work like the following: when a unit is targeted it grants its vision to the overseer and the vision for that unit's owner is in turn reduced to effectively 0 (.5 or whatever is required to just see the unit). For 15 seconds the two visions fade back to normal -- the overseer's player loses vision radius around the unit and the unit's player gains vision radius back. In this way, an overseer can cast the spell on say a viking and then run away in a direction opposite the direction the viking is taking. The viking has to guess the retreat trajectory whereas the overseer knows exactly which way to go to save itself from the viking. It's not the most amazingly game breaking spell, but it could save an overseer or two from needing to be morphed again and it promotes micro.
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On September 24 2011 08:29 DocNemesis wrote:That might work. Contaminate is something I never found to be very useful except in ZvZ matchups. Dark Swarm would be a good substitute, but I would hate it when people call "imba" on that. Then again.... I wouldn't mind it as well.
People call it imba because... it is. At least in its BW form, Dark Swarm would be ridiculously overpowered if translated into SCII. AoE undispellable pseudo-invincibility wherever you want it, whenever you want it, is a bad idea. It'd be akin to (for example) giving High Templar their BW storms along with Khaydarin Amulet; it's simply too powerful.
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On September 24 2011 08:55 HypertonicHydroponic wrote:
Dark swarm made the cut into SC2, it's called PDD. I've said it before, there really isn't that much in SC2 that wasn't in SC1, it's just been mashed up. I think it would be silly to duplicate the ability, but do think something needs to be added to the overseer. My personal favorite idea is a mash-up of Parasite and Blind which would work like the following: when a unit is targeted it grants its vision to the overseer and the vision for that unit's owner is in turn reduced to effectively 0 (.5 or whatever is required to just see the unit). For 15 seconds the two visions fade back to normal -- the overseer's player loses vision radius around the unit and the unit's player gains vision radius back. In this way, an overseer can cast the spell on say a viking and then run away in a direction opposite the direction the viking is taking. The viking has to guess the retreat trajectory whereas the overseer knows exactly which way to go to save itself from the viking. It's not the most amazingly game breaking spell, but it could save an overseer or two from needing to be morphed again and it promotes micro.
Thing is... the PDD is not Dark Swarm... lol. Simple example: does it nullify archon damage when in use? Dark Swarm certainly did.
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On September 24 2011 07:13 ArvickHero wrote:
Dark swarm is too cool for sc2
YY they tries to outcool it with mothership, harharhar
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Terran has no melee units.
GG TvZ
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United States10393 Posts
On September 24 2011 10:07 xHassassin wrote:
Terran has no melee units.
GG TvZ
Splash. Hellion + tank.
how did terran go against this in BW when they didn't have hellions back then? im not trying to turn this into a BW vs SC2 discussion either
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Could you imagine irradiate in blobcraft?
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On September 24 2011 11:26 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 10:07 xHassassin wrote:
Terran has no melee units.
GG TvZ Splash. Hellion + tank. how did terran go against this in BW when they didn't have hellions back then? im not trying to turn this into a BW vs SC2 discussion either
Terran had a couple more viable options in BW. Against dark swarm they could use stimmed firebats, siege tank splash damage (remember that siege tanks do 70 base damage in BW), spider mines, and 75 energy irradiate. In SC2 I believe terran's only options would be hellions, (weaker) siege tank splash, hunter seeker missile, and 250mm strike cannons. I suppose the biggest difference would be the lack of irradiates or something similar to help keep the overseer count in check.
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Honestly Dark swarm would make zerg overpowered tbh. zvt is already pretty balanced imo and this would completely break it (zvp would force toss to have to all in or lose lol).
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On September 24 2011 09:44 MorningMusume11 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 08:55 HypertonicHydroponic wrote:
Dark swarm made the cut into SC2, it's called PDD. I've said it before, there really isn't that much in SC2 that wasn't in SC1, it's just been mashed up. I think it would be silly to duplicate the ability, but do think something needs to be added to the overseer. My personal favorite idea is a mash-up of Parasite and Blind which would work like the following: when a unit is targeted it grants its vision to the overseer and the vision for that unit's owner is in turn reduced to effectively 0 (.5 or whatever is required to just see the unit). For 15 seconds the two visions fade back to normal -- the overseer's player loses vision radius around the unit and the unit's player gains vision radius back. In this way, an overseer can cast the spell on say a viking and then run away in a direction opposite the direction the viking is taking. The viking has to guess the retreat trajectory whereas the overseer knows exactly which way to go to save itself from the viking. It's not the most amazingly game breaking spell, but it could save an overseer or two from needing to be morphed again and it promotes micro. Thing is... the PDD is not Dark Swarm... lol. Simple example: does it nullify archon damage when in use? Dark Swarm certainly did.
......you're wrong.
Dark swarm lowered Archon damage but it did not nullify it. PDD is more expensive but the concept is the same.
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There was once a time when Dark Swarm and Plague were Infestor spells, or at least according to the Starcraft Wiki (not Liquipedia).
Anyways, balancing Dark Swarm and Consume with smart-cast would be a tricky business, especially if you want to give the spells to the Overseer. I can only imagine unstoppable Zerg doom drops with Overseers supporting with their Dark Swarm.
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On September 24 2011 14:04 Azure Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 11:26 FlaShFTW wrote:On September 24 2011 10:07 xHassassin wrote:
Terran has no melee units.
GG TvZ Splash. Hellion + tank. how did terran go against this in BW when they didn't have hellions back then? im not trying to turn this into a BW vs SC2 discussion either Terran had a couple more viable options in BW. Against dark swarm they could use stimmed firebats, siege tank splash damage (remember that siege tanks do 70 base damage in BW), spider mines, and 75 energy irradiate. In SC2 I believe terran's only options would be hellions, (weaker) siege tank splash, hunter seeker missile, and 250mm strike cannons. I suppose the biggest difference would be the lack of irradiates or something similar to help keep the overseer count in check.
Snipe and EMP (maybe not EMP) would also be options to consider. Imo, Dark Swarm in SC2 doesn't have lurkers, so you can't really push anyways. Imo, they need to reintroduce some other way for Zerg to hold ground without rolling the dice with burrowed banelings. If you don't know what I'm talking about, try moving marines up a ramp in BW that has lurkers at the top.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On September 24 2011 11:26 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 10:07 xHassassin wrote:
Terran has no melee units.
GG TvZ Splash. Hellion + tank. how did terran go against this in BW when they didn't have hellions back then? im not trying to turn this into a BW vs SC2 discussion either
Irradiate destroyed any hightech units, such as lurkers but mainly defilers and ultras.
Siege tanks were much better in BW, dealing much more damage and costing a baffling 2 supply instead of 3. Moreover, you had mines, which also went through dark swarm to cause severe aoe damage.
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It's pointless trying to think of ways to balance this in sc2 without it actually being put in, but it's obvious a lot of things have to change. Also don't really see the need for it as it is. I think broodlords and ultras sort of serve a similar purpose in being able to push a terran. I like dark swarm, but the game just isn't balanced around it, and personally I see ZvT as the most balanced non mirror. Zerg never was about being cost efficient, it's just how the mechanics work.
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On September 24 2011 06:57 Stijx wrote:
I think it would be way to good, to be honest with you.
Especially considering the fact that overseers are air units and they have high ground vision and they can consume infested terrans.
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On September 24 2011 11:26 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 10:07 xHassassin wrote:
Terran has no melee units.
GG TvZ Splash. Hellion + tank. how did terran go against this in BW when they didn't have hellions back then? im not trying to turn this into a BW vs SC2 discussion either
Terran had firebats to combat lings since splash was not nullified. They also had tanks, *Mines*, and irradiate.
On September 24 2011 16:28 GhostOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 09:44 MorningMusume11 wrote:On September 24 2011 08:55 HypertonicHydroponic wrote:
Dark swarm made the cut into SC2, it's called PDD. I've said it before, there really isn't that much in SC2 that wasn't in SC1, it's just been mashed up. I think it would be silly to duplicate the ability, but do think something needs to be added to the overseer. My personal favorite idea is a mash-up of Parasite and Blind which would work like the following: when a unit is targeted it grants its vision to the overseer and the vision for that unit's owner is in turn reduced to effectively 0 (.5 or whatever is required to just see the unit). For 15 seconds the two visions fade back to normal -- the overseer's player loses vision radius around the unit and the unit's player gains vision radius back. In this way, an overseer can cast the spell on say a viking and then run away in a direction opposite the direction the viking is taking. The viking has to guess the retreat trajectory whereas the overseer knows exactly which way to go to save itself from the viking. It's not the most amazingly game breaking spell, but it could save an overseer or two from needing to be morphed again and it promotes micro. Thing is... the PDD is not Dark Swarm... lol. Simple example: does it nullify archon damage when in use? Dark Swarm certainly did. ......you're wrong. Dark swarm lowered Archon damage but it did not nullify it. PDD is more expensive but the concept is the same.
Thank you. The main part of the attack was "nullified" but splash was not, same as a siege shot. Whether or not the mechanics are *exactly* the same does not matter, PDD is still a ranged attack negating ability same as dark swarm.
I'm really surprised you picked archon damage as opposed to something even more simple and a more clear change like marine attack, but whatever, it doesn't change the fact that adding a BW style darkswarm to the game for zerg would essentially be adding a duplicated ability to the current game of SC2.
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EPT
