• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:14
CEST 06:14
KST 13:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202520RSL Season 1 - Final Week8[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) Magnus Carlsen and Fabi review Clem's chess game. Who will win EWC 2025?
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Corsair Pursuit Micro? Pro gamer house photos Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread BWCL Season 63 Announcement
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 644 users

You MUST DIE!!! (just another blog)

Blogs > NB
Post a Reply
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 03 2011 10:33 GMT
#1
Thats what i said all the time to my scouting probes PvT PvP. I was so sad to let him go but a tight build order require a free up 1 supply for optimal mining and crystal clear execution.

PvP: we all know the feeling when we get supply block at 25/26 so our stalker/ sentry never came out on time. Lots of people choose to cut probe instead of scarifying the precious scouting/hidden-pylon-builder-probe but doing that simply make your mining less efficient which later will result a 25 mineral lack in to make a stalker which then you will have to make a zealot despite having 50 gas. It sounds like a little thing but its huge in PvP 4 gates vs 4 gates to have X zealot Y stalker vs X+1 zealot Y-1 stalker. The dps will be different, the meat shield will be different which later on will result a favor position depend on the combination with attacker/defender position. Often in time i also find my sentry 10 second late for another 10 energy for a 2nd FF just because i was in decisive to let my scouting probe go early.

PvT: scouting whether if there is a 2nd marine or not is a crucial information in this match up. Lots of people dont know that 1 marine cant kill a full HP probe so you will always be able to scout the add-on of the terran if you wished to by aiming to scout between the first marine and the 2nd marine finish timing. An alternative solution to this is putting a pylon blocking the add-on position of the barrack. what so problematic is that if the guy lift to another place, the building pylon vision is really limited which leave you 2 options: let the pylon finish or cancel it and kill your probe for information... hmmm, 100 minerals and supply block early game is huge.... DIE PROBE!!!!!!!!! DIE FOR A BETTER GOOD! Information to obtain: gas timing, rax timing, make sure no supply drop on depo, add-on on rax (or 2nd marine), sim city overall would be great for some 3 gates VR cheese.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Joking aside, i think my PvP just reach a new level recently. I actually under stand how to FF vs 4 gate by now. The main purpose is still to isolate the units down the ramp with the units being wrap up ramp, not completely block everything out of your base until your immo finish. This actually change everything i have ever know about defensive styles vs 4 gates. When i watch Tyler vs Choya game 2 on shakuras, the forcefield from the defending player putting on the wrapping in zealot up ramp is a total panic forcefield which in my opinion lost him the game. In short, there should always at most 1 forcefield on the ramp when you are trying to defend vs 4 gates, at least 2 FF on ramp if you want to fence off blink attack (rare now). After learning this, i was actually overconfident in my vP builds such that i could show them everything i do and keep waiting for a 4 gate coming. There are failures occasionally but a 4PvP win in a row (yeah, blizzard gave me 4 PvP in a row, fuck ladder mmr system) give me a huge confident boost.

My current state of PvP is now push into mid game (not counting cheese games), where i either auto win since people fail to 4gate or start transition from 2 gates robo to some other stuff. One of the interesting style of mid game PvP i recently encounter alot is the 2 gate robo blink which i helped combatex taught his student. The build order is pretty simple, 3 stalker rush into robo with blink while pumping 2 obs. The lack in gas to execute this simply put you in an surplus of mineral which help you getting a proxy nexus while constantly being annoying blink in and out his base sniping pylon and tech structure. Despite 'defensive DT expand' is a blind hard counter to this build, there are not much scout-counter solution to this since you are constantly at a possibility of base trading without mapcontrol (he has more than 2 obs constantly). Normally people will try to hold with immo while switching to 3-4 gates blink all-in but one of the recent new development is that with the high obs count, they could snipe your obs during base trade situation and pump out 1 DT to finish the game. This has been executed by HuK, Response on Korean ladder as seen on their streams (HuK won HSC with this) (BTW, huge shout out to the best brotoss Response fighting on top korean ladder, cant wait to see him in the next MLG). This PvP style is extremely annoying since it is all about map/spawn favored base trading situation. The distant between your nature and how wide your main is also is a huge problem. Cross spawn on shakuras is the best map to do this as far as i know, I vetoed python also because of this (plus the infestor spamming on your 3rd business).

vP who dont use that gay ass snipe obs base trade DT style, I started to test out a 'new composition: archon zealot immo stalkers. The thoery behind this is creating as many 'layers' in your army as possible. Layers here are group of units making a concave based on their maximum range when engaging with the enemy's army. In theory, the more layers you have in your army, the less splash you take from colossus. This mean that after getting the ideal archons charge, you need to start blink stalkers production again (ideally stopping at 5~6 archons depending on map space for concave) with immo mix in for extra DPS/layer meat shield. This also creating room for a bit of prism drop late PvP but i have never dare trying that =_=. The biggest flaw i find when using such composition is the mid game air switch double star VR. Will never have enough stalker to counter any number that is greater than 6 VR. The archons immo simply helping VR to charge up vs stalkers. I still dont have much games where i went pass this point in game but yeah...

--------------------------------------------------------------

Cant wait for BoxeR vs Yellow, 1 more day T_T.... hope it is not too 1 sided. Didnt Yellow played Protoss back in blizzcon and cannon rush a wc3 pro with a prism? It could be close if its PvT but i
still dont see Yellow winning if thats a ZvT specially after all the "LINE THEM UP" action happened in MLG =_=~~!

Yellow HWAITING!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------
Bonuses for people who read this blog:
1/ Did you know if you cut probe at 14 you can get your nexus starting at 2:15 in game time? It is extremely early in PvZ and often give you a huge lead in probe count which then make your 6 gates came much earlier.
2/ Did you bookmark this? What the hell man? go and do it!
MORE BONUS
+ Show Spoiler +

3/ awesome flourish


4/awesome old kpop (if you know korean, its even better, if you find the live vid of this song after listening to it, prepare to get a bit shock )


5/One of the best manga/webtoon/manhwa/comic I have read for a while. The story is brand new with a unique flow as a combination of a battle manga and a psychology manga as a big picture. There were an old saying on how a korean could tell a story in 100 different ways just to bring different colors into the perspective and its totally correct. I am seeing webtoons/manhwa top out manga in the next few years.
http://www.mangareader.net/1757/tower-of-god.html
Came out weekly.

6/ Starboba is the team i will be cheering for this DotA2 tournament. I have been in touch with them since they was an unknow team. Was there when a member was thinking about quit gaming to make sure he doesnt drop out of university. Was there when they won their first major lan. Was there when POTM arrows hit their targets. GO starboba
[image loading]



peace!

***
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
August 03 2011 11:55 GMT
#2
lol epic blog. Nice discoveries and pretty nice game. Now,where are the pics for the game?
O and heres something I found. Artosis's Nightmare Clan: The Only Clan That Can Beat Artosis And Idra
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
Dagobert
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Netherlands1858 Posts
August 03 2011 13:15 GMT
#3
Almost related:

Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 47m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 279
RuFF_SC2 171
ProTech69
StarCraft: Brood War
Mind 2637
Leta 256
JulyZerg 190
NaDa 105
Noble 63
Icarus 7
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm107
League of Legends
JimRising 881
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K556
Coldzera 371
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox487
Other Games
summit1g15318
shahzam832
C9.Mang0426
WinterStarcraft285
Maynarde159
Trikslyr61
kaitlyn16
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1799
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH205
• practicex 21
• davetesta6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1538
Other Games
• Scarra1278
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
5h 47m
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
1d 5h
Esports World Cup
2 days
Esports World Cup
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.