• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:13
CEST 19:13
KST 02:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WardiTV Mondays 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ How Famous was FlaSh before his Debut? Are you ready for ASL 22? NEW HYPE VIDEO
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 [ASL22] Ro24 Group C [ASL22] Ro24 Group A
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Young Players Exit Esports E…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6241 users

You MUST DIE!!! (just another blog)

Blogs > NB
Post a Reply
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 03 2011 10:33 GMT
#1
Thats what i said all the time to my scouting probes PvT PvP. I was so sad to let him go but a tight build order require a free up 1 supply for optimal mining and crystal clear execution.

PvP: we all know the feeling when we get supply block at 25/26 so our stalker/ sentry never came out on time. Lots of people choose to cut probe instead of scarifying the precious scouting/hidden-pylon-builder-probe but doing that simply make your mining less efficient which later will result a 25 mineral lack in to make a stalker which then you will have to make a zealot despite having 50 gas. It sounds like a little thing but its huge in PvP 4 gates vs 4 gates to have X zealot Y stalker vs X+1 zealot Y-1 stalker. The dps will be different, the meat shield will be different which later on will result a favor position depend on the combination with attacker/defender position. Often in time i also find my sentry 10 second late for another 10 energy for a 2nd FF just because i was in decisive to let my scouting probe go early.

PvT: scouting whether if there is a 2nd marine or not is a crucial information in this match up. Lots of people dont know that 1 marine cant kill a full HP probe so you will always be able to scout the add-on of the terran if you wished to by aiming to scout between the first marine and the 2nd marine finish timing. An alternative solution to this is putting a pylon blocking the add-on position of the barrack. what so problematic is that if the guy lift to another place, the building pylon vision is really limited which leave you 2 options: let the pylon finish or cancel it and kill your probe for information... hmmm, 100 minerals and supply block early game is huge.... DIE PROBE!!!!!!!!! DIE FOR A BETTER GOOD! Information to obtain: gas timing, rax timing, make sure no supply drop on depo, add-on on rax (or 2nd marine), sim city overall would be great for some 3 gates VR cheese.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Joking aside, i think my PvP just reach a new level recently. I actually under stand how to FF vs 4 gate by now. The main purpose is still to isolate the units down the ramp with the units being wrap up ramp, not completely block everything out of your base until your immo finish. This actually change everything i have ever know about defensive styles vs 4 gates. When i watch Tyler vs Choya game 2 on shakuras, the forcefield from the defending player putting on the wrapping in zealot up ramp is a total panic forcefield which in my opinion lost him the game. In short, there should always at most 1 forcefield on the ramp when you are trying to defend vs 4 gates, at least 2 FF on ramp if you want to fence off blink attack (rare now). After learning this, i was actually overconfident in my vP builds such that i could show them everything i do and keep waiting for a 4 gate coming. There are failures occasionally but a 4PvP win in a row (yeah, blizzard gave me 4 PvP in a row, fuck ladder mmr system) give me a huge confident boost.

My current state of PvP is now push into mid game (not counting cheese games), where i either auto win since people fail to 4gate or start transition from 2 gates robo to some other stuff. One of the interesting style of mid game PvP i recently encounter alot is the 2 gate robo blink which i helped combatex taught his student. The build order is pretty simple, 3 stalker rush into robo with blink while pumping 2 obs. The lack in gas to execute this simply put you in an surplus of mineral which help you getting a proxy nexus while constantly being annoying blink in and out his base sniping pylon and tech structure. Despite 'defensive DT expand' is a blind hard counter to this build, there are not much scout-counter solution to this since you are constantly at a possibility of base trading without mapcontrol (he has more than 2 obs constantly). Normally people will try to hold with immo while switching to 3-4 gates blink all-in but one of the recent new development is that with the high obs count, they could snipe your obs during base trade situation and pump out 1 DT to finish the game. This has been executed by HuK, Response on Korean ladder as seen on their streams (HuK won HSC with this) (BTW, huge shout out to the best brotoss Response fighting on top korean ladder, cant wait to see him in the next MLG). This PvP style is extremely annoying since it is all about map/spawn favored base trading situation. The distant between your nature and how wide your main is also is a huge problem. Cross spawn on shakuras is the best map to do this as far as i know, I vetoed python also because of this (plus the infestor spamming on your 3rd business).

vP who dont use that gay ass snipe obs base trade DT style, I started to test out a 'new composition: archon zealot immo stalkers. The thoery behind this is creating as many 'layers' in your army as possible. Layers here are group of units making a concave based on their maximum range when engaging with the enemy's army. In theory, the more layers you have in your army, the less splash you take from colossus. This mean that after getting the ideal archons charge, you need to start blink stalkers production again (ideally stopping at 5~6 archons depending on map space for concave) with immo mix in for extra DPS/layer meat shield. This also creating room for a bit of prism drop late PvP but i have never dare trying that =_=. The biggest flaw i find when using such composition is the mid game air switch double star VR. Will never have enough stalker to counter any number that is greater than 6 VR. The archons immo simply helping VR to charge up vs stalkers. I still dont have much games where i went pass this point in game but yeah...

--------------------------------------------------------------

Cant wait for BoxeR vs Yellow, 1 more day T_T.... hope it is not too 1 sided. Didnt Yellow played Protoss back in blizzcon and cannon rush a wc3 pro with a prism? It could be close if its PvT but i
still dont see Yellow winning if thats a ZvT specially after all the "LINE THEM UP" action happened in MLG =_=~~!

Yellow HWAITING!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------
Bonuses for people who read this blog:
1/ Did you know if you cut probe at 14 you can get your nexus starting at 2:15 in game time? It is extremely early in PvZ and often give you a huge lead in probe count which then make your 6 gates came much earlier.
2/ Did you bookmark this? What the hell man? go and do it!
MORE BONUS
+ Show Spoiler +

3/ awesome flourish


4/awesome old kpop (if you know korean, its even better, if you find the live vid of this song after listening to it, prepare to get a bit shock )


5/One of the best manga/webtoon/manhwa/comic I have read for a while. The story is brand new with a unique flow as a combination of a battle manga and a psychology manga as a big picture. There were an old saying on how a korean could tell a story in 100 different ways just to bring different colors into the perspective and its totally correct. I am seeing webtoons/manhwa top out manga in the next few years.
http://www.mangareader.net/1757/tower-of-god.html
Came out weekly.

6/ Starboba is the team i will be cheering for this DotA2 tournament. I have been in touch with them since they was an unknow team. Was there when a member was thinking about quit gaming to make sure he doesnt drop out of university. Was there when they won their first major lan. Was there when POTM arrows hit their targets. GO starboba
[image loading]



peace!

***
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
August 03 2011 11:55 GMT
#2
lol epic blog. Nice discoveries and pretty nice game. Now,where are the pics for the game?
O and heres something I found. Artosis's Nightmare Clan: The Only Clan That Can Beat Artosis And Idra
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
Dagobert
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Netherlands1858 Posts
August 03 2011 13:15 GMT
#3
Almost related:

Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 47m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
MindelVK 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 32716
Calm 6591
Shuttle 2054
Horang2 309
Soulkey 111
Liquid`Ret 67
Mong 66
soO 29
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
Noble 11
Dota 2
The International159719
Gorgc13959
XBOCT464
Counter-Strike
fl0m5111
shoxiejesuss1212
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King116
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi1191
Grubby898
FrodaN732
Beastyqt577
PiGStarcraft451
Mlord426
B2W.Neo392
byalli305
ArmadaUGS151
ToD107
Livibee85
RotterdaM80
QueenE54
KnowMe53
Trikslyr44
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV169
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 58
• mYiSmile143
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 31
• Michael_bg 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Noizen45
League of Legends
• TFBlade976
Other Games
• Shiphtur369
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 47m
Escore
16h 47m
PiG Sty Festival
18h 47m
Serral vs Reynor
HeRoMaRinE vs herO
Big Brain Bouts
22h 47m
MaNa vs Kelazhur
Nicoract vs HeRoMaRinE
Serral vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
1d 16h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 18h
Zoun vs Solar
SHIN vs Maru
Patches Events
1d 22h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
The Patches Monday
3 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-19
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.