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thehitman
1105 Posts
In the wake of MLG Anaheim I'm posting the MLG Columbus TvZ stats: Note: Only groups and beyond to finals are taken into account. Open play qualifying is not count. T vs Z 30:44 2:1 0:2 0:2 1:2 2:1 1:2 1:2 2:0 1:2 0:2 2:0 0:2 0:2 1:2 2:0 1:2 2:1 0:2 1:2 1:2 0:1 0:2 2:0 0:2 2:0 0:3 2:4 2:0 2:1 Terran 32% Zerg 68% 29 sets were counted, 74 matches total. ![[image loading]](http://i51.tinypic.com/2lvbuwi.jpg)   | ||
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SenorChang
Australia4730 Posts
Need some more context and what is the # of Terran and Zerg players in your sample? | ||
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AnxiousHippo
Australia1451 Posts
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thehitman
1105 Posts
On July 27 2011 18:08 AnxiousHippo wrote: A sample size of 74 is rather small... Yeah, but its quality data. I don't want to take data from non-essential play or small tournaments. I have all the data from the last Dreamhack and will post it once Dreamhack Valencia comes closer. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On July 27 2011 18:05 SenorChang wrote: Is this Pool Play and Championship bracket onwards? Pool play only? Need some more context i would guess that, there's 32 matchups in that, he lists 29 so i guess he may have merged some extended series or missed one or two but that's besides the point. look at who played there. from a terran pov you have MMA smashing everyone and then, er... that's about it. thorzain beat idra in a dead rubber, knocked out machine as you'd expect. fenix took out sheth which isn't a huge surprise. all the good terran players either got knocked out by other terrans/protoss, or by objectively superior zergs. and it's 72 games total, a hilariously low sample size. | ||
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Ao_Jun
Denmark396 Posts
On July 27 2011 18:08 AnxiousHippo wrote: A sample size of 74 is rather small... This is true, however the top 20 ppl on the korean GM ladder is a good sample size by all accounts. I dunno. It's so hard to do statistics when you have to factor in that people can be better than other people. | ||
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
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Aesop
Hungary11305 Posts
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Yew
United States940 Posts
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
Looks to me in every matchup, the better player won, and there were more good zergs than good terrans. There wasn't a single TvZ where I thought, "wow, Terran is doing multi pronged drops, creep denying, pressure expanding, beautiful tank positioning, excellent marine splitting, oh w8 Z has infestor/broodlord game is over." When the Terran outplayed the Zerg, the Terran won. When Zerg was down 50 food, the Terran won. | ||
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
On July 27 2011 18:26 Aesop wrote: Especially MLG Columbus is a bad sample. Of the five Korean Pros there (not counting Moonan and Select), three played Zerg (Moon, Losira, July). At the bottom of group play were ... Gretorp, Moonan, Select and TLO. If there had been three Korean Terrans instead of three Zerg, the balance might have flipped to the reverse. This. Not only the number of games is too small to be relevant, but the number of players is also too small. Even if you have a sample of 1 000 000 games if its the same two players playing them all it doesnt mean anything, since the skill difference between them can be huge. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On July 27 2011 18:22 Ao_Jun wrote: This is true, however the top 20 ppl on the korean GM ladder is a good sample size by all accounts. last time i checked that was 95% terran? | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
MMA, Thorzain The rest did awful. Demuslim was not in form, qxc played mediocre, Fenix played mediocre. If you put a lot of top 10 zergs in a tourney with top 30 terrans, it should be skewed  | ||
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TheAwesomeAll
Netherlands1609 Posts
On July 27 2011 18:22 Ao_Jun wrote: This is true, however the top 20 ppl on the korean GM ladder is a good sample size by all accounts. I dunno. It's so hard to do statistics when you have to factor in that people can be better than other people. the top 20 accounts on kr ladder doesnt mean anything since they are not all different players. I believe sc is playing on a lot of accounts. | ||
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ReketSomething
United States6012 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On July 27 2011 18:26 Aesop wrote: Especially MLG Columbus is a bad sample. Of the five Korean Pros there (not counting Moonan and Select), three played Zerg (Moon, Losira, July). At the bottom of group play were ... Gretorp, Moonan, Select and TLO. If there had been three Korean Terrans instead of three Zerg, the balance might have flipped to the reverse. Yup this. | ||
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Th1rdEye
United States1074 Posts
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Nexic
United States729 Posts
On July 27 2011 20:31 TheAwesomeAll wrote: you also have to consider that a lot of teams will be practicing in-house, so it's not necessarily the case that everyone is laddering 100% seriously and the top 20 are terran,the top 20 accounts on kr ladder doesnt mean anything since they are not all different players. I believe sc is playing on a lot of accounts. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
Let me dare to say... Just a little bit of insider info or perspective - of course a pro has the mindset to overcome anything that could potentially be imbalanced by hardwork/practice, but if you were to talk with the majority of pros online, both T/P, they will tell you that they are very unhappy with how powerful infestors currently are. If anyone has watched a certain person's stream b4, you can see him beating some korean progamers by massing almost exclusively infestors/lings/broods...yeah... The infestor counters every unit essentially, including it's counters, such as ghost and templar, it even counters all mech units (with good control) just from researchin neural. That's the nitty gritty of it, and regardless of the optimistic mindset that pros need to have to keep improving, the game is not balanced at all right now. Actually, let me rephrase - the game is pretty closed to balanced, the infestor...is not. No one wants to really be the person to put that stuff out there, but i don't mind stepping up and pointing that out. Maybe other pros could comment too... For TvZ the match-up itself, following up what I just said, regardless of MLG/GSL stats, I think it would be perfectly balanced if not for how powerful the infestor is right now, especially with broods. It's also really strange that not a lot of korean progamers have experience with the infestor metagame yet...or maybe they just recently started to learn about it. | ||
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Trumpet
United States1935 Posts
This reminds me of http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=87957 but less funny =( | ||
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