• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:32
CEST 07:32
KST 14:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down10ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League53Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.165
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Rollback Netcode in Brood War BW General Discussion Young Players Tournament Announced by SOOP
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL23] RO24 Group Stage
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Chess Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6696 users

Puma, TSL, EG, and the call for Regulation

Blogs > Tristan
Post a Reply
Tristan
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada566 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-27 01:33:10
July 27 2011 01:29 GMT
#1
The Puma issue I think is very interesting and I think it is controversial because of something missing for SC2 to become a legitimate sport. It really got me to thinking about KeSPA and what they play in Brood War and this situation.

Technically, this doesn’t break any official rules and the signing of Puma was entirely legit, but everyone knows this. It is an issue because we have no sort of body that regulates this. I know all the SL named things are calling themselves leagues, but in the long run Starleagues are tournaments that run regularly.

What I think there should be an opening for and what I hope there might be in the future is some sort of Starcraft organization that major tournaments and teams work within in a way like KeSPA did in the Korean Brood War scene just without the evil.

What are the advantages of this? Well an organization like this would be able to set up standards and rules for tournaments and teams which currently there is complete chaos. They could be the people to determine the proper way to manage the switching of teams. I feel for TSL because they lost a player, someone they expended resources to house and train to win the NASL in the first place only to lose their player without any compensation at all (That I am aware of), a formal organization I hope would be able to organize this and make sure that TSL won’t be so hurt by such a movement.

Other jobs this sort of regulatory body could achieve for professional Starcraft 2 is put together an official map list so every tournament isn’t a pain for pro players to practice. Professional players could use such an organization to negotiate formal rules like those for wages or resources. A formal way for teams to draft new players to give the player the deal that he wants would also benefit players. (I mean imagine if teams bid for players). As more and more money enters SC2 as it grows we would need to do something like this to ensure more ambiguous things like the Puma incident don’t happen. And to ensure things like soundproofing and anti cheating measures.

I know that the insidious KeSPA will sour many players to an organization like this as KeSPA did the same job in Korea and made life terrible for many pro players, instituting harsh working conditions, under payed players, and lobbied to try and stop SC2 from taking off in Korea.

I would argue that since the professional scene of SC2 is not like BW and is truly an international sport, that the draconian policies of KeSPA would not be able to survive.

Postscript: I want to point out I take no stance on the situation, some of the players on EG are friends of mine and honestly I think most of the issue was due to there really being no easy way to pick up a player.

http://Zangano431.tumblr.com/
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-27 01:37:28
July 27 2011 01:32 GMT
#2
It's only able to survive because all the BW pro events are sanctioned through KeSPA.

It's practically impossible to have one governing body to enforce SC2 tournaments. Sure, there are some invite only tournaments, but the vast majority have slots open to the public.

All the majors would have to become closed circuit tournaments. Not only that, but new teams will continue to pop up, add in the fact SC2 is a truly international; and last but not least, many organizations across the world hosting events. Chances are next to nil. What are you going to do? Add another fee on top of Blizzard's fee to sanction the event? o-O
Soap
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil1546 Posts
July 27 2011 01:46 GMT
#3
They could be the people to determine the proper way to manage the switching of teams.


The proper way is the will of the player, observed the stipulations of his contract. Just like it is today. I can't imagine why anyone who's not a team owner/manager would want otherwise.
Probulous
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3894 Posts
July 27 2011 01:53 GMT
#4
Yup, this aint gonna happen. Or rather shouldn't.

I think specifically from a player point of view, it would be best for a players association to be formed, that provides support for professional players. This whole Puma thing could have been handled better if the expectations around contract negotiations was clearer. This has to be driven by players, and you don't need a formalised structure to improve the situation. A players association could provide advice on contract negotiation, help with networking etc. It doesn't have to be prescriptive.

The fact is that players can be exploited because they act alone. That doesn't mean that collective bargaining is the only way to go.
"Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
July 27 2011 01:59 GMT
#5
KeSpa is interested in SC2 somewhat, there was an interview on gamefy with the secretary-general of KeSpa about it. Due to the Puma event alot of koreans actually say that something like KeSpa is needed aswell, even though you might not want it to happen I'd say that there is a fair chance that KeSpa or a KeSpa like entity will emerge atleast in Korea.

Besides, who is going to fund this huge international ''governing'' body anyway? KeSpa is on a local scale so to speak, but youl need to have funding to get something going for international purposes.
WriterXiao8~~
Engore
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1916 Posts
July 27 2011 02:06 GMT
#6
I really hope we don't see any governing bodies. I wasn't following the BW pro scene at all but just from the description it seems like KeSPA wasn't a good thing. You said you wanted it without the corruption but to be quite frank few things come without corruption. Just about any country has its corrupt figures and organizations.

Players, managers, team owners, etc., should be the ones to regulate it. Now if some former player or current player or someone with experience in the scene decided to help players negotiate contracts i could maybe see that. But even then that could turn messy. Not many people are a fan of "agents" in traditional sports because many hold outs are caused by them pleaing with the player to seek every cent. Don't get me wrong, thats good for the player. But right now we don't see any of that.

So when a contract is renewed or a player signs with a new team after his/her contract is up its usually a clean transition.

I see it working fine right now if teams just honor contracts and show some ethics in the business. It seems unfair for EG because this whole topic was sparked from their getting PuMa. Really if you step back and look at it now EG and PuMa had the right plan. It was just that it was all leaked too early before it had all been carried out.

I think it would be absurd to have some organization tell EG that they couldn't sign a player like PuMa who isn't under contract at all. Or to tell EG or PuMa they owe something to TSL. Yes I won't deny TSL has helped PuMa a lot. I don't really understand why they hadn't put him under contract, even without sponsors you could get some form of contract or agreement so that another team at least has to bargain with you on it.

People continue to compare SC2 and esports to traditional sports and systems they use. It would be absurd for a professional baseball team or basketball team to have a player without a contract. TSL jumped on signing everyone else on their team to a contract when PuMa left. So it would show that it really wasn't that far fetched to do it in the first place. I don't think anyone is at fault for the EG/PuMa/TSL situation. I think its business 100% and should have just been a news story, no drama. But how it was presented certainly made it look that way. And then many notable players calling EG the bad company of e-sports certainly hasn't helped.
EG | Liquid | Dignitas | FXO | SlayerS | TSL | iS | Fan of pretty much all players ^_^ | SeleCT <3 forever! Axslav <3
Bippzy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1466 Posts
July 27 2011 02:32 GMT
#7
Well an organization like this would be able to set up standards and rules for tournaments and teams which currently there is complete chaos.

Complete Chaos? EG did nothing wrong and the only reason the public thinks so is because of coach lee. People have some misconception that going through coach lee first is different then going through coach lee when you know theres player interest.

Also, for setting up standards and rules for tournaments, there also isn't complete chaos.

I realize someone was going to make threads about this, given EGs response to criticism, but i still cant agree.
LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3007 Posts
July 27 2011 02:38 GMT
#8
Can you imagine what would happen if sc2 gamers are told to earn "pro liscense" through a courage tournament?
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 28m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft541
Nina 105
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2616
GuemChi 1533
ProTech169
Dewaltoss 78
Noble 35
Icarus 6
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm254
League of Legends
JimRising 641
Counter-Strike
taco 255
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox944
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr42
Other Games
summit1g7931
Coldzera 756
C9.Mang0267
PiGStarcraft206
Livibee75
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick540
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 34
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2389
League of Legends
• Rush1151
• Lourlo1141
• Stunt484
Other Games
• Scarra821
• Shiphtur469
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5h 28m
Reynor vs Zoun
Neeb vs Rogue
OSC
17h 28m
FEL
2 days
Patches Events
2 days
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
FEL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-20
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.