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I noticed that when there is a girl that becomes a starcraft pro, the community response is either way to go, or tits or gtfo (the latter people getting banned, thankfully) which is really cool.
Likewise, when a girl becomes interested in Starcraft 2, in playing it, or in watching the game's pros, everyone loves that, the game reaches a wider audience, whats not to love right?
but what is it with the pure HATRED towards the girls that date or hook up with progamers? I just saw some GSL2 (thats like 6 months ago) TL party where there was IdrA's gf with her ex, and the unanimous response in the comments was that she's a whore, that she's playing IdrA or that she's insane. I dont know the story with the girl that kissed CatZ or Ret or whatever, but the overwhelming amount of 'groupie slut' 'damn whore' and 'groupie whore' comments is mindboggling.
So what, nerds? are starcraft pros off limits now? does that mean Anna is a groupie? what about Mrs Nony? is she a groupie too? Jessica? seriously ridiculous. I sometimes fear that the average age of people in the SC2 community is 14. :S
and that annoys me, especially all the IdrA fanboys, the ones that dont care how greg plays and only like him cuz he rages every now and then, and i feel they're the ones that are calling katy a groupie whore over and over again. I personally think she looks like nice girl, a little bit hyper, but nice.
 
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Ever thought that those people secretly want to sleep with IdrA themselves and are jealous because he fucks someone else? That is a very entertaining thought, reading threads with that idea in the back of your mind.
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it's basically just a bunch of 18-25 year old males slut shaming and its fucking disgusting.
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On June 13 2011 20:17 Celial wrote:
Ever thought that those people secretly want to sleep with IdrA themselves and are jealous because he fucks someone else? That is a very entertaining thought, reading threads with that idea in the back of your mind.
hhahahhaha oh god, that made me laugh lol 
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On June 13 2011 20:11 PlaGuE_R wrote:
I noticed that when there is a girl that becomes a starcraft pro, the community response is either way to go, or tits or gtfo (the latter people getting banned, thankfully) which is really cool.
There are girl starcraft pros?
Besides, everybody <3's Linda Liao :D
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The girl who kissed Ret and Catz was cheating on her boyfriend.
Idra's GF seemingly broke up with her old BF just to latch onto him.
That's why people call them 'groupie whores'.
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Norway28665 Posts
I agree with you and it's really stupid. we, as guys, who generally want to have sex with girls, should be encouraging of girls who have lots of sex because it increases the likelyhood of us having sex. in addition, looking past the whole "well fuck her for having sex with someone else", you have the issue of inconsistency - guys in their teens or whatever who are negative towards female promiscuity, also tend to be the same group of guys who encourage male promiscuitiy. it's all really dumb and inconsistent.
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It's pure jealousy.
There are a lot of socially awkward nerds in SC2 who are incapable of talking to girls, so when they see someone have a girlfriend, they get pissy and jealous. So, they have to keep their precious ego and start saying the girl is a whore, or a bitch, or any other insulting thing to try and convince themselves (and their socially awkward peers) that she isn't worth being their girlfriend anyway.
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im not gonna comment on the idra + gf situation because they have made an effort to keep her 'mostly' out of the limelight. we can only guess as to how their relationship is. but on the other subject i have to disagree.
from my experience and perspective the majority of people actually treat girls very well. if you ladder against someone you would have no way to tell they are a girl. and if you listen to anna on sotg she is a very normal person. apart from the fake interuptions noone had any problem with her at all for being part of that show or the community or whatever, even though she looks good for a living.
what people have a problem with, and sometimes express in a very rude way, is when a girl comes into a male dominated community and the first thing out of their mouth is 'look at me im a girl SO WHAT'. they are the ones bringing it up, and often using their sexuality in order to sell their image or make themselves feel important. then they have the backlash that always follows this and they and their defenders feel shocked that this happened.
people like to dump on internet communities for being sexist nerd virgins in a basement living with their mum. but you could argue that a decent proportion of the few girls that do make an appearance do it for all the wrong reasons.
the ones getting this harsh treatment tend to type and talk like 14 year old girls, spamming emoticons every sentence and giggling constantly. people getting pissed off with this isnt sexism, its the same as anyone would get annoyed with anyone acting like a child, its just really annoying.
on the related subject of girl only tourneys which seems to be the hot topic of the moment (in before chill tells me to just not watch). its never a case of it taking up my time, or 'hurting esports' or any of that. i dont mind gold only, masters only, because bronze level players dont finish their post with 'and i want to be accepted into the scene because of it.
girls as a group do suffer because of the actions of the minority on both sides, but segregating yourself from this community by putting your time and effort into organizing girl only events is going to fuel that jealousy/hatred/titsorgtfo/annoyance. if a girl player wants to be taken seriously she needs to never mention her boobs, the same way men dont mention their penis. just play like everyone else, working up the ladder, taking part in events, or winning tourneys. its all good and any girl who does that gets the respect of most people, they dont get it by being out and proud.
this isnt even specific to girls on the internet. the same backlash occurs to overtly gay people or black people who respond to let downs with 'is it becoz i iz black'. people are different yay, but people who want to be part of a community cant tout their difference as the greatest thing ever, then get offended with people dont give a shit.
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On June 13 2011 20:11 PlaGuE_R wrote:I sometimes fear that the average age of people in the SC2 community is 14. :S
from what i've seen, it's most likely around 17-18, the young dumb and full of cum, they'll grow out of it eventually.
women in this scene will always need to have tough skin, and girlfriends/wives will need to keep away from the spotlight.
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On June 13 2011 20:37 turdburgler wrote:
what people have a problem with, and sometimes express in a very rude way, is when a girl comes into a male dominated community and the first thing out of their mouth is 'look at me im a girl SO WHAT'. they are the ones bringing it up, and often using their sexuality in order to sell their image or make themselves feel important. then they have the backlash that always follows this and they and their defenders feel shocked that this happened.
people like to dump on internet communities for being sexist nerd virgins in a basement living with their mum. but you could argue that a decent proportion of the few girls that do make an appearance do it for all the wrong reasons.
Agreed. Girl gamers shouldn't be treated differently just because they have tits, they are gamers just like us.
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Cheating on the person you're dating with two randoms over the course of a weekend deserves condemnation whether it's a guy or girl.
Idra's gf I have no problem with.
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The maturity level of the entire gaming community is generally low. TL is the upper echelon of the gaming community and it still shuns female promiscuity (which is odd, why is it anyones business what happens in other people private life).
You forgot the kellymilkies photo shoot and random stuff about tossgirl.
lil bit off topic but- Good for IdrA, his gf is really good looking and supportive as well.
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On June 13 2011 20:50 ixi.genocide wrote:
The maturity level of the entire gaming community is generally low. TL is the upper echelon of the gaming community and it still shuns female promiscuity (which is odd, why is it anyones business what happens in other people private life).
You forgot the kellymilkies photo shoot and random stuff about tossgirl.
lil bit off topic but- Good for IdrA, his gf is really good looking and supportive as well.
ah yes, i had forgoten kelly's photoshoot. And like i said, i dont know the story with CatZ or Ret, I only posted this because of the comments i saw on a video about IdrA's gf. it's ridiculous really, but Liquid'Drone, TurdBugler and Kanin make very good points
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It´s nothing new, girls>internet>guys well always create drama and attention :D
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 13 2011 20:37 turdburgler wrote:
im not gonna comment on the idra + gf situation because they have made an effort to keep her 'mostly' out of the limelight. we can only guess as to how their relationship is. but on the other subject i have to disagree.
from my experience and perspective the majority of people actually treat girls very well. if you ladder against someone you would have no way to tell they are a girl. and if you listen to anna on sotg she is a very normal person. apart from the fake interuptions noone had any problem with her at all for being part of that show or the community or whatever, even though she looks good for a living.
what people have a problem with, and sometimes express in a very rude way, is when a girl comes into a male dominated community and the first thing out of their mouth is 'look at me im a girl SO WHAT'. they are the ones bringing it up, and often using their sexuality in order to sell their image or make themselves feel important. then they have the backlash that always follows this and they and their defenders feel shocked that this happened.
people like to dump on internet communities for being sexist nerd virgins in a basement living with their mum. but you could argue that a decent proportion of the few girls that do make an appearance do it for all the wrong reasons.
the ones getting this harsh treatment tend to type and talk like 14 year old girls, spamming emoticons every sentence and giggling constantly. people getting pissed off with this isnt sexism, its the same as anyone would get annoyed with anyone acting like a child, its just really annoying.
on the related subject of girl only tourneys which seems to be the hot topic of the moment (in before chill tells me to just not watch). its never a case of it taking up my time, or 'hurting esports' or any of that. i dont mind gold only, masters only, because bronze level players dont finish their post with 'and i want to be accepted into the scene because of it.
girls as a group do suffer because of the actions of the minority on both sides, but segregating yourself from this community by putting your time and effort into organizing girl only events is going to fuel that jealousy/hatred/titsorgtfo/annoyance. if a girl player wants to be taken seriously she needs to never mention her boobs, the same way men dont mention their penis. just play like everyone else, working up the ladder, taking part in events, or winning tourneys. its all good and any girl who does that gets the respect of most people, they dont get it by being out and proud.
this isnt even specific to girls on the internet. the same backlash occurs to overtly gay people or black people who respond to let downs with 'is it becoz i iz black'. people are different yay, but people who want to be part of a community cant tout their difference as the greatest thing ever, then get offended with people dont give a shit.
I must emphasize this post. I generally avoid posting in most of the threads about girls but most idiots do get banned and in my personal opinion the majority of members in this community hold the perspective above. Anna is widely liked even though there will ALWAYS be trolls. NeverGG was (still is!) also widely liked. Gamer girls who contribute and show enthusiastic support for the community are generally accepted quite easily. In fact, I can't wait for the first girl player to show up at MLG and wreck faces earning respect in the community for her gaming abilities rather than a giggly attitude or tits.
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I think Turdburglar's post hit the nail on the head.
It's always the vocal minority that makes everybody look bad.
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I don't know what to say. Stories you hear on the internet often paint women as 'Bitches and Whores,' but at the same time people also White Knight and defend women like crazy no matter how they act. The truth is that my real-life experiences tend towards the negative opinions of women, even though I have several female friends who are quite normal and I regularly describe them as 'gems' (especially Gandhali<3, the classmate who saved my engineering career).
I believe that a woman's 'bitchiness' or 'sluttiness' has a strong correlation with her natural looks, because men tend to enable such women to act however they please, especially if it gets them a little action. So at the very least I'm highly wary of good-looking women...
As far as girl gamers taking over the Starcraft scene I think it could happen with Starcraft 2 as the game is still developing right now but in a few years it will be a fortress of men. Women are good at multitasking, which means that they should be good at macro in Starcraft 2, but I doubt more than a few will have the attention span enough to buckle down and train to be really really good. There are just too many opportunities for them elsewhere, especially if they're good looking.
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How you gonna comment on something you've not even bothered to read?? I dunno bout the others, and there's plenty of immature people on this site as you've stated, but the whole thing with ret is pretty much the very definition of groupie whore.
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it feels like the loudest voice in slut-shaming are women too 
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On June 13 2011 22:44 hazelynut wrote:it feels like the loudest voice in slut-shaming are women too
the ret thing sure ain't slut shaming. if a dude booked on his gf and lied to her for some female progamer, there'd be similar outrage.
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On June 13 2011 22:44 hazelynut wrote:it feels like the loudest voice in slut-shaming are women too
I agree. Too many people try to jump in on an argument that is already WAY past topic and try to be the good and noble voice of reason. Appreciated? Yes. Necessary? In a thread like that it's best left for the moderators...
Just as a general observation, our gender doesn't matter for the purpose of this forum or laddering in general. Unless we're in the same room, we're not so much people as actions, voices, and words on a computer screen. My point is that our gender is about as important as our eye color - it's irrelevant for most starcraft media. Keep in mind that I said MOST since it's pretty obvious when listening to a female caster or someone gives their gender to give credence to some gender-based claim (like we see in girl blogs amongst others). At that point it becomes relevant, but it doesn't make the opinion better than anyone else's. If some girl wants to hijack a situation "because I have boobs" then they're better off hanging out with immature high schoolers.
If the children want to run their mouths off about Joe Progamer's girlfriend or girl-thing then there's nothing WE can really do, but the moderators are adept at laying the smack down!
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On June 13 2011 20:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I agree with you and it's really stupid. we, as guys, who generally want to have sex with girls, should be encouraging of girls who have lots of sex because it increases the likelyhood of us having sex. in addition, looking past the whole "well fuck her for having sex with someone else", you have the issue of inconsistency - guys in their teens or whatever who are negative towards female promiscuity, also tend to be the same group of guys who encourage male promiscuitiy. it's all really dumb and inconsistent.
I always found the idea that men are horny assholes who think only with their dicks incredibly offensive. I think the only reason anyone is like that is because of cultural conditioning.
If I had to guess, though, one reason monogamy might be a more attractive feature to men than to women is that if a girl gets pregnant, the guy would really like to know that it's his child he's going to raise, not some other asshole's genes. If a girl sleeps around that's sometimes difficult to say confidently. From the girls perspective, a guy who sleeps around might not be devoted to her and helping her raise the baby. Therefore monogamy is useful (even discounting what we know about STDs and the like). For me personally, being special and sharing myself with only the person I am in a relationship with is important to my dignity and self-esteem, but perhaps that's uncommon 
My point is that our gender is about as important as our eye color - it's irrelevant for most starcraft media.
That's really not true. Maybe it doesn't affect a person's ability to play this game well, but in terms of conversing, the norms expected of you in real life based on your gender are going to carry over to text. You really have to purposefully invent an asexual personality if you want to hide your gender (or act like the opposite sex). Even though I have a somewhat effeminate personality, people usually just think I have a sister or something.
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On June 13 2011 20:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I agree with you and it's really stupid. we, as guys, who generally want to have sex with girls, should be encouraging of girls who have lots of sex because it increases the likelyhood of us having sex. in addition, looking past the whole "well fuck her for having sex with someone else", you have the issue of inconsistency - guys in their teens or whatever who are negative towards female promiscuity, also tend to be the same group of guys who encourage male promiscuitiy. it's all really dumb and inconsistent.
Its totally consistent. I want girls to be less promiscuous so that when I sleep with all of them, they haven't already slept with everyone on the block.
Hence the discouragement of them sleeping with lots of people.
Quality becomes more important if you already have quantity.
Or, at least thats one angle you could use to reconcile the inconsistency you mentioned.
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I think everyone has it all wrong. People are legitimately trying to help, but in regards to the fairer sex it always comes out fucked up and blunt.
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On June 13 2011 20:37 turdburgler wrote:
what people have a problem with, and sometimes express in a very rude way, is when a girl comes into a male dominated community and the first thing out of their mouth is 'look at me im a girl SO WHAT'.
If a girl player wants to be taken seriously she needs to never mention her boobs, the same way men dont mention their penis. just play like everyone else, working up the ladder, taking part in events, or winning tourneys. its all good and any girl who does that gets the respect of most people, they dont get it by being out and proud.
Thought your post was thoughtful, but the bolded bit really stood out to me.
I don't think I would have even noticed if it weren't for the context. One of my buddies who has been on this site much longer than me, and introduced me to all things starcraft, recommended that I read InControl's blogs (in addition to other stuff) to get some classic TL-culture highlights. Now, I'm not hating on InControl for this-- his blogs are hilarious-- but that dude talks about his penis A LOT. Just throwing that out there as a counter example. None of the replies on his posts led me to believe that people were taking him less seriously for discussing his body, nor were they reacting as though he was man-whoring for attention. It was just... funny! And I think that's how it was intended. But if a girl did that... even a thoughtful individual like yourself would have the reaction (my interpretation- feel free to correct me): "why is she throwing it in my face that she's a GIRL? how can I take her seriously if she doesn't act professionally? I'm here to appreciate people for their game, not for their identity/culture/body!"
It's just... I think even that mind-set has the potential for some serious double standards.
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Chicks who take the slightest interest in starcraft should be carried everywhere. I mean a permanent group of carriers consisting of TL members .. so the chicks don't have to make the effort to go somewhere by foot. They should receive pay pal donations. It's such a nice thing to have girls playing this game and if she is actually good .. omg and good looking .. oohHH babbay
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the girls who are in this community because they genuinely love the game like everyone else (for example the aforementioned NeverGG, Haemonculus, Seltzer...) are widely accepted and respected. girls who get into the community and act all attention-whore-y or try to tell everyone that they are "A GIRL GAMER, SO WHAT??" recieve a lot of criticism/flak/hate and in my opinion (and obviously just to a certain extent) rightfully so.
to elaborate a bit on that: this is a community made of nerds and geeks and maniacs, specifically when it comes to starcraft. if you (as a girl) come in and say, "hey all of you are guys, so since i'm a girl i deserve your attention" then you don't deserve anything but rejection. if you, however, come in and say, "wow this is really awesome, i want to contribute to this awesome community and be a nerd too" and you don't base that on your gender but only on a shared interest (starcraft) then people will respect and value that, and rightfully so.
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On June 15 2011 00:42 drooL wrote:
girls who get into the community and act all attention-whore-y or try to tell everyone that they are "A GIRL GAMER, SO WHAT??" recieve a lot of criticism/flak/hate and in my opinion (and obviously just to a certain extent) rightfully so.
Attention whores are the first to scout new territory for their attention whoring. But the friends and younger sisters of the female attention whore, upon being informed by the attention whore of the possibilities of attention whoring on this community platform, start to check out the platform and may begin to feel eager to actually contribute and devote some time to play the game and become gosu even. It's obvious that playing starcraft is not on the regular agenda of a would be gosu female player, because she probably never heard of the game, and by insulting and degrading attention whores it's likely thtt they loose interest in attention whoring so quickly that they don't get the chance to passively inform the would-be gosu lady of the awesomeness of the game.
So I suggest we regard females much muuUUcH mUUCHH more highly than male members, regardless of their attention whoring. My opinion
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Why does it have to be "male gamer" or "female gamer"? Are male gamers so used to getting shunned for being nerds and geeks that they have to take it out on the females by trying to put themselves higher in the geek pecking order?
We're all fucking gamers, last time I checked. I used to LARP, and females there were, if treated differently at all, revered, for keeping the stigma away and bringing something attractive to games.
My wife is a geek, she works in IT, she does computers, we play Killing Floor on Steam or SC2 after our son goes to bed most nights. She doesn't game for attention, she doesn't like PC's because it's different, she just likes the stuff.
Maybe if people stop differentiating between "male gamer" and "Female gamer" and just call it "gamer", the world would be a better place?
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Edit: lol nvm reading fail.
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There's plenty of girls who get respect, these posts are always such bullshit, they paint it like every single girl gets mean things said about her which just isn't true. Selzter is one of the best interviewers out there, she's awesome. Lilsusie has been consistently awesome in her service to the community. If there are legitimately good players I wish them all the luck in the world and I think a girl or two who can compete even on some level would be nothing but positive for the community. But SC2 Tossgirls I am not seeing
What I don't really like is that you call them "female pros" when none of them even compete in real events. Those girl only tournaments are great entry points for them but I am no more a pro for playing in TL Opens. Yet there's a bunch of guys who will line up and act like they just took down MLG and give them interviews etc, accuse everyone else of not being supportive, call them "female pros" in their white knight blogs and what have you. I think people like that are a big reason for why some of them are given a hard time.
You like to pretend they are something they are not, don your brilliant white armor and demand that they be accepted as professionals when they simply aren't. Whether it's because you are that desperate for the acknowledgement of an internet girl them or if you think you are really doing them a favor through it all I don't know.
There's a middle ground, acknowledge their accomplishments for what they are, don't harass them like a child, and just act fucking normal.
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On June 13 2011 20:22 Bosscelot wrote:
The girl who kissed Ret and Catz was cheating on her boyfriend.
Idra's GF seemingly broke up with her old BF just to latch onto him.
That's why people call them 'groupie whores'.
I'm surprised no one mentioned this post.
The only reason we heard about the girl who kissed Ret and Catz was from her boyfriend who she cheated on. I would call ANYONE who cheats a whore.
I'm fine with IdrA's girlfriend though. Seems like a nice person.
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On June 14 2011 23:57 FourFace wrote:
Chicks who take the slightest interest in starcraft should be carried everywhere. I mean a permanent group of carriers consisting of TL members .. so the chicks don't have to make the effort to go somewhere by foot. They should receive pay pal donations. It's such a nice thing to have girls playing this game and if she is actually good .. omg and good looking .. oohHH babbay
Bwahahahahahaha! That's an interesting image
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On June 14 2011 05:47 jakechen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 20:37 turdburgler wrote:
what people have a problem with, and sometimes express in a very rude way, is when a girl comes into a male dominated community and the first thing out of their mouth is 'look at me im a girl SO WHAT'.
If a girl player wants to be taken seriously she needs to never mention her boobs, the same way men dont mention their penis. just play like everyone else, working up the ladder, taking part in events, or winning tourneys. its all good and any girl who does that gets the respect of most people, they dont get it by being out and proud.
Thought your post was thoughtful, but the bolded bit really stood out to me. I don't think I would have even noticed if it weren't for the context. One of my buddies who has been on this site much longer than me, and introduced me to all things starcraft, recommended that I read InControl's blogs (in addition to other stuff) to get some classic TL-culture highlights. Now, I'm not hating on InControl for this-- his blogs are hilarious-- but that dude talks about his penis A LOT. Just throwing that out there as a counter example. None of the replies on his posts led me to believe that people were taking him less seriously for discussing his body, nor were they reacting as though he was man-whoring for attention. It was just... funny! And I think that's how it was intended. But if a girl did that... even a thoughtful individual like yourself would have the reaction (my interpretation- feel free to correct me): "why is she throwing it in my face that she's a GIRL? how can I take her seriously if she doesn't act professionally? I'm here to appreciate people for their game, not for their identity/culture/body!" It's just... I think even that mind-set has the potential for some serious double standards.
I see this and I can only think of Day9's masturbation story. In the end, society simply has problems with openly discussing female sexuality which don't exist with males. I don't like it, but it's not just TL.net and relatively speaking there are bigger problems out there. It is what it is.
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"In the end, society simply has problems with openly discussing female sexuality which don't exist with males."
Agreed. It's not just TL, it's not just the gaming community, it's not just the internet... it is all of society.
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im just mad because i will not be able to fuck idra myself
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On June 22 2011 10:27 Whole wrote:im just mad because i will not be able to fuck idra myself
Aww, have you asked him? You never know 
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On June 22 2011 10:43 Asrathiel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 10:27 Whole wrote:im just mad because i will not be able to fuck idra myself Aww, have you asked him? You never know
I was too afraid to say that I was his #1 Fan and that I made his list of quotes when I met him in the elevator at MLG Dallas 2010.Here is the blog if you are interested.
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I give my full support for sexytimes involving males and females who are both good and bad at Starcraft.
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On June 22 2011 11:04 palanq wrote:
I give my full support for sexytimes involving males and females who are both good and bad at Starcraft.
Hear hear! lol
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EPT
