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Blogs > platorepublic
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platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 19 2011 22:56 GMT
#1
The most fundamental distinction in Plato's philosophy is between the many observable objects that appear good and the object that is what goodness really is.

It is asserted by Plato that true philosophers - those who recognise how important it is to distinguish the one (the one thing that goodness is) from the many (the many things that are called good) are in a position to become ethically superior to unenlightened human beings, because of their greater degree of insight they can acquire.

To understand which things are good and why they are good (and if we are not interested in such questions, how can we become good?), we must investigate the form of good.

**
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
elmizzt
Profile Joined February 2010
United States3309 Posts
May 19 2011 23:07 GMT
#2
You have my sword.
d=(^_^)z
Mayor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States472 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-19 23:10:27
May 19 2011 23:08 GMT
#3
So, you're pretty much saying, that in order to become good, we must try and investigate what good is?
"You can be creative but I will crush it under the iron fist of my conservative play." - Liquid`Tyler
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 19 2011 23:09 GMT
#4
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.

Is that good?
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
NicksonReyes
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Philippines4431 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-19 23:12:35
May 19 2011 23:12 GMT
#5
On May 20 2011 08:09 platorepublic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.

Is that good?

You should know. You're a philosopher.
"Start yo" -FlaSh
hifriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
China7935 Posts
May 19 2011 23:12 GMT
#6
I never understood why we give so much credibility to the guy that came up with the concept of platonic relationships, and thought it was a pretty sweet idea.
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 19 2011 23:17 GMT
#7
On May 20 2011 08:12 NicksonReyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:09 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.

Is that good?

You should know. You're a philosopher.

I don't need a sword. The ultimate of war is peace.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
ToDieFoR
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States52 Posts
May 19 2011 23:28 GMT
#8
On May 20 2011 08:17 platorepublic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:12 NicksonReyes wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:09 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.

Is that good?

You should know. You're a philosopher.

I don't need a sword. The ultimate of war is peace.


The ultimate of war is showing that you are stroger than the others~~
:D
quandle
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States41 Posts
May 19 2011 23:29 GMT
#9
Plato's philosophy this? Plato's philosophy that? I thought he wrote stories about an old guy that only asked questions.
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 19 2011 23:29 GMT
#10
On May 20 2011 08:12 hifriend wrote:
I never understood why we give so much credibility to the guy that came up with the concept of platonic relationships, and thought it was a pretty sweet idea.

I'm not sure that the concept of "Platonic relationships" has anything to do with Plato's philosophy at all.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
May 19 2011 23:32 GMT
#11
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.


And you have my bow.

Zurles
Profile Joined February 2009
United Kingdom1659 Posts
May 19 2011 23:37 GMT
#12
On May 20 2011 08:32 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.


And you have my bow.



and Myyyy Axe!
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 19 2011 23:46 GMT
#13
OP you should pose a question so there's something to discuss. I am interested.
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 19 2011 23:47 GMT
#14
On May 20 2011 08:46 zulu_nation8 wrote:
OP you should pose a question so there's something to discuss. I am interested.

What is the form of good?
What is goodness?
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
Tin_Foil
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States243 Posts
May 19 2011 23:50 GMT
#15
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:32 Talin wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.


And you have my bow.



and Myyyy Axe!


You carry the fate of us all, little one. If this is indeed the will of the Council, then Gondor will see it done.
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
May 19 2011 23:51 GMT
#16
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:32 Talin wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.


And you have my bow.



and Myyyy Axe!


So... where are we going?
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 19 2011 23:51 GMT
#17
Isn't good = eudaimonia, which roughly means the good life. The virtues are means to obtaining eudaimonia. Virtues are both desirable for themselves and as means to an end. I haven't read any of this in a while though.
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
May 19 2011 23:51 GMT
#18
Plato was a fucking dumbass. He held ridicilous beliefs that have no evidence.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
deathly rat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom911 Posts
May 19 2011 23:54 GMT
#19
On May 20 2011 08:47 platorepublic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:46 zulu_nation8 wrote:
OP you should pose a question so there's something to discuss. I am interested.

What is the form of good?
What is goodness?


The answer in this case isn't as important as asking the question. If you're asking the question you realise that no book, prophet or other self appointed expert has the answers.
No logo (logo)
elmizzt
Profile Joined February 2010
United States3309 Posts
May 19 2011 23:55 GMT
#20
On May 20 2011 08:51 vOdToasT wrote:
Plato was a fucking dumbass. He held ridicilous beliefs that have no evidence.

that's a pretty mean thing to say about someone in his own blog...
d=(^_^)z
Snuggles
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1865 Posts
May 20 2011 00:00 GMT
#21
these threads are so bizarre
bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3693 Posts
May 20 2011 00:07 GMT
#22
On May 20 2011 08:55 elmizzt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:51 vOdToasT wrote:
Plato was a fucking dumbass. He held ridicilous beliefs that have no evidence.

that's a pretty mean thing to say about someone in his own blog...



Yeah really, what's with the past tense?

oh, and this is bad
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-20 00:13:07
May 20 2011 00:12 GMT
#23
On May 20 2011 08:55 elmizzt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:51 vOdToasT wrote:
Plato was a fucking dumbass. He held ridicilous beliefs that have no evidence.

that's a pretty mean thing to say about someone in his own blog...


I'm not insulting OP, I'm insulting Plato.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 00:19 GMT
#24
On May 20 2011 09:12 vOdToasT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:55 elmizzt wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:51 vOdToasT wrote:
Plato was a fucking dumbass. He held ridicilous beliefs that have no evidence.

that's a pretty mean thing to say about someone in his own blog...


I'm not insulting OP, I'm insulting Plato.

That is worse.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
ch33psh33p
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
7650 Posts
May 20 2011 00:20 GMT
#25
On May 20 2011 09:19 platorepublic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 09:12 vOdToasT wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:55 elmizzt wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:51 vOdToasT wrote:
Plato was a fucking dumbass. He held ridicilous beliefs that have no evidence.

that's a pretty mean thing to say about someone in his own blog...


I'm not insulting OP, I'm insulting Plato.

That is worse.


No, that is good. I mean bad.
secret - never again
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 00:22 GMT
#26
On May 20 2011 08:51 mizU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:32 Talin wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.


And you have my bow.



and Myyyy Axe!


So... where are we going?

We are going towards goodness.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
Hyren
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States817 Posts
May 20 2011 00:41 GMT
#27
I'm so confused.
Power-tripping mod for Trump's stream
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 00:51 GMT
#28
It would be more constructive if you explained why you are confused.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
duckett
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States589 Posts
May 20 2011 00:53 GMT
#29
On May 20 2011 09:22 platorepublic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:51 mizU wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:32 Talin wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.


And you have my bow.



and Myyyy Axe!
javascript:addUBB('img')

So... where are we going?

We are going towards goodness.

Not necessarily. Good can be defined such that the exploration does not lead to good. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.
funky squaredance funky squaredance funky squaredance
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 00:55 GMT
#30
On May 20 2011 09:53 duckett wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 09:22 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:51 mizU wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:32 Talin wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.


And you have my bow.



and Myyyy Axe!
javascript:addUBB('img')

So... where are we going?

We are going towards goodness.

Not necessarily. Good can be defined such that the exploration does not lead to good. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

If we don't explore, how can we even know anything then?

It's better than doing nothing.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
May 20 2011 00:55 GMT
#31
On May 20 2011 08:29 quandle wrote:
Plato's philosophy this? Plato's philosophy that? I thought he wrote stories about an old guy that only asked questions.

yes, and what's your point
duckett
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States589 Posts
May 20 2011 00:57 GMT
#32
On May 20 2011 09:55 platorepublic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 09:53 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:22 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:51 mizU wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:32 Talin wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.


And you have my bow.



and Myyyy Axe!
javascript:addUBB('img')

So... where are we going?

We are going towards goodness.

Not necessarily. Good can be defined such that the exploration does not lead to good. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

If we don't explore, how can we even know anything then?

It's better than doing nothing.

Why is it better than doing nothing? To answer this, you would have to define better, which would presuppose a definition of good to at least some extent.
funky squaredance funky squaredance funky squaredance
elmizzt
Profile Joined February 2010
United States3309 Posts
May 20 2011 01:00 GMT
#33
On May 20 2011 09:41 Hyren wrote:
I'm so confused.

Good.
d=(^_^)z
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 01:02 GMT
#34
On May 20 2011 09:57 duckett wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 09:55 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:53 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:22 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:51 mizU wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:32 Talin wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.


And you have my bow.



and Myyyy Axe!
javascript:addUBB('img')

So... where are we going?

We are going towards goodness.

Not necessarily. Good can be defined such that the exploration does not lead to good. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

If we don't explore, how can we even know anything then?

It's better than doing nothing.

Why is it better than doing nothing? To answer this, you would have to define better, which would presuppose a definition of good to at least some extent.

So let's say you do nothing, then.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
duckett
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States589 Posts
May 20 2011 01:02 GMT
#35
On May 20 2011 10:02 platorepublic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 09:57 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:55 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:53 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:22 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:51 mizU wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:32 Talin wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.


And you have my bow.



and Myyyy Axe!
javascript:addUBB('img')

So... where are we going?

We are going towards goodness.

Not necessarily. Good can be defined such that the exploration does not lead to good. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

If we don't explore, how can we even know anything then?

It's better than doing nothing.

Why is it better than doing nothing? To answer this, you would have to define better, which would presuppose a definition of good to at least some extent.

So let's say you do nothing, then.

Yes.
funky squaredance funky squaredance funky squaredance
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 01:14 GMT
#36
On May 20 2011 10:02 duckett wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 10:02 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:57 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:55 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:53 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:22 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:51 mizU wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:32 Talin wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:07 elmizzt wrote:
You have my sword.


And you have my bow.



and Myyyy Axe!
javascript:addUBB('img')

So... where are we going?

We are going towards goodness.

Not necessarily. Good can be defined such that the exploration does not lead to good. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

If we don't explore, how can we even know anything then?

It's better than doing nothing.

Why is it better than doing nothing? To answer this, you would have to define better, which would presuppose a definition of good to at least some extent.

So let's say you do nothing, then.

Yes.

You just did.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
May 20 2011 01:18 GMT
#37
On May 20 2011 10:14 platorepublic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 10:02 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 10:02 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:57 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:55 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:53 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:22 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:51 mizU wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:32 Talin wrote:
[quote]

And you have my bow.



and Myyyy Axe!
javascript:addUBB('img')

So... where are we going?

We are going towards goodness.

Not necessarily. Good can be defined such that the exploration does not lead to good. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

If we don't explore, how can we even know anything then?

It's better than doing nothing.

Why is it better than doing nothing? To answer this, you would have to define better, which would presuppose a definition of good to at least some extent.

So let's say you do nothing, then.

Yes.

You just did.


If a post is made in a blog, and no one reads it, was it truly written?
duckett
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States589 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-20 01:29:50
May 20 2011 01:20 GMT
#38
On May 20 2011 10:14 platorepublic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 10:02 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 10:02 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:57 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:55 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:53 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:22 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:51 mizU wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:32 Talin wrote:
[quote]

And you have my bow.



and Myyyy Axe!
javascript:addUBB('img')

So... where are we going?

We are going towards goodness.

Not necessarily. Good can be defined such that the exploration does not lead to good. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

If we don't explore, how can we even know anything then?
It's better than doing nothing.

Why is it better than doing nothing? To answer this, you would have to define better, which would presuppose a definition of good to at least some extent.

So let's say you do nothing, then.

Yes.

You just did.

We are not finished.
funky squaredance funky squaredance funky squaredance
elmizzt
Profile Joined February 2010
United States3309 Posts
May 20 2011 01:21 GMT
#39
On May 20 2011 10:18 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 10:14 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 10:02 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 10:02 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:57 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:55 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:53 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:22 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:51 mizU wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
[quote]

and Myyyy Axe!
javascript:addUBB('img')

So... where are we going?

We are going towards goodness.

Not necessarily. Good can be defined such that the exploration does not lead to good. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

If we don't explore, how can we even know anything then?

It's better than doing nothing.

Why is it better than doing nothing? To answer this, you would have to define better, which would presuppose a definition of good to at least some extent.

So let's say you do nothing, then.

Yes.

You just did.


If a post is made in a blog, and no one reads it, was it truly written?

Good going. You just broke philosophy. >:o
d=(^_^)z
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
May 20 2011 01:22 GMT
#40
Thats nice platorepublic
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 01:22 GMT
#41
On May 20 2011 10:18 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 10:14 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 10:02 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 10:02 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:57 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:55 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:53 duckett wrote:
On May 20 2011 09:22 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:51 mizU wrote:
On May 20 2011 08:37 Zurles wrote:
[quote]

and Myyyy Axe!
javascript:addUBB('img')

So... where are we going?

We are going towards goodness.

Not necessarily. Good can be defined such that the exploration does not lead to good. There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

If we don't explore, how can we even know anything then?

It's better than doing nothing.

Why is it better than doing nothing? To answer this, you would have to define better, which would presuppose a definition of good to at least some extent.

So let's say you do nothing, then.

Yes.

You just did.


If a post is made in a blog, and no one reads it, was it truly written?

Plato says yes.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 02:18 GMT
#42
I just checked the other peoples blogs to see which is best by ranking, and just realised my blog is ranked 2nd last. (Lol.)
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17726 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-20 02:25:47
May 20 2011 02:22 GMT
#43
On May 20 2011 08:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Isn't good = eudaimonia, which roughly means the good life. The virtues are means to obtaining eudaimonia. Virtues are both desirable for themselves and as means to an end. I haven't read any of this in a while though.

I think that was more Aristotle's idea of what the good is than Plato's.
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
sYz-Adrenaline
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1850 Posts
May 20 2011 02:26 GMT
#44
Bad?
Can you feel the rush?
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 02:28 GMT
#45
On May 20 2011 11:26 sYz-Adrenaline wrote:
Bad?

What?
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50120 Posts
May 20 2011 02:28 GMT
#46
Ugly.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 02:30 GMT
#47
On May 20 2011 11:28 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Ugly.

What is with all these one word replies?
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
LlamaNamedOsama
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1900 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-20 02:35:31
May 20 2011 02:34 GMT
#48
The OP is more about the nature of good rather than the question of what is good, ie essence precedes existence. I'm not inclined to believe either side of a questionable dichotomy of either existence or essence preceding the other, I guess I just copout on any form of philosophy that attempts to be fully systematic by resorting to my own ideas of epistemology as the basis for other stuff.
Dario Wünsch: I guess...Creator...met his maker *sunglasses*
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 02:45 GMT
#49
On May 20 2011 11:34 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
The OP is more about the nature of good rather than the question of what is good, ie essence precedes existence. I'm not inclined to believe either side of a questionable dichotomy of either existence or essence preceding the other, I guess I just copout on any form of philosophy that attempts to be fully systematic by resorting to my own ideas of epistemology as the basis for other stuff.

Yes, you are right about OP.

And what are your own ideas of epistemology exactly?
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
May 20 2011 03:15 GMT
#50
Riders of Rohan, what news from the mark?
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 03:31 GMT
#51
On May 20 2011 12:15 mizU wrote:
Riders of Rohan, what news from the mark?

The King is safe for now.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
LlamaNamedOsama
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1900 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-20 03:52:44
May 20 2011 03:52 GMT
#52
On May 20 2011 11:45 platorepublic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 11:34 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
The OP is more about the nature of good rather than the question of what is good, ie essence precedes existence. I'm not inclined to believe either side of a questionable dichotomy of either existence or essence preceding the other, I guess I just copout on any form of philosophy that attempts to be fully systematic by resorting to my own ideas of epistemology as the basis for other stuff.

Yes, you are right about OP.

And what are your own ideas of epistemology exactly?


Well I guess it's probably too presumptuous for me to claim them as my own ideas, I'm sure someone's already thought of them/argued it or whatever. I generally agree with Cartesian rationalism, but when he reaches the solipsism dilemma, instead of using the ontology argument for proving God, I believe that our ability to communicate and share ideas with other beings (ie other people) proves that there can be things that exist outside of us, and it is this consensus-making through the interchange of ideas that then go through Descartes' same process of building up the rest of the truths we can know from there. Connecting to the original question of this blog, I'd then say that this ability to exchange ideas with each other (I also think that this human understanding isn't solely "rationalism" [not in the same sense of the term used with Descartes in rationalism vs empiricism, but the idea of cold logic in rationalism vs emotivism, so I think that emotions themselves can be a form of understanding]) brings meaning into our existence, and the celebration of the meaning of human understanding would be the normative good.
Dario Wünsch: I guess...Creator...met his maker *sunglasses*
palanq
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States761 Posts
May 20 2011 03:52 GMT
#53
Is good bad? or vice versa?
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 04:00 GMT
#54
On May 20 2011 12:52 palanq wrote:
Is good bad? or vice versa?

I think good and bad overlaps.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 09:58 GMT
#55
On May 20 2011 12:52 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 11:45 platorepublic wrote:
On May 20 2011 11:34 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
The OP is more about the nature of good rather than the question of what is good, ie essence precedes existence. I'm not inclined to believe either side of a questionable dichotomy of either existence or essence preceding the other, I guess I just copout on any form of philosophy that attempts to be fully systematic by resorting to my own ideas of epistemology as the basis for other stuff.

Yes, you are right about OP.

And what are your own ideas of epistemology exactly?


Well I guess it's probably too presumptuous for me to claim them as my own ideas, I'm sure someone's already thought of them/argued it or whatever. I generally agree with Cartesian rationalism, but when he reaches the solipsism dilemma, instead of using the ontology argument for proving God, I believe that our ability to communicate and share ideas with other beings (ie other people) proves that there can be things that exist outside of us, and it is this consensus-making through the interchange of ideas that then go through Descartes' same process of building up the rest of the truths we can know from there. Connecting to the original question of this blog, I'd then say that this ability to exchange ideas with each other (I also think that this human understanding isn't solely "rationalism" [not in the same sense of the term used with Descartes in rationalism vs empiricism, but the idea of cold logic in rationalism vs emotivism, so I think that emotions themselves can be a form of understanding]) brings meaning into our existence, and the celebration of the meaning of human understanding would be the normative good.

Descartes and Plato are my favourite philosophy writers.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
TheGiz
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada708 Posts
May 20 2011 15:43 GMT
#56
You do not have to know good to do good, and knowing good does not necessarily bring good either. A sociopath may know what 'good' is, but has no regard for doing good and it will not guide the sociopath's actions. Indifference is a form of sociopathy as well, and there are many people in the world who are simply indifferent.

That said, ethical people may still know good but may not always perform actions that fall into the realm of 'good,' because such actions may be guided by emotion, temptation, or necessity. Good is also inherently subjective, and as such individuals may claim to know what 'good' is despite having different ideas on the subject.

Knowing good does not help elevate oneself morally unless doing good also comes of it.
Life is not about making due with what you have; it's about finding out just how much you can achieve. Never settle for anything less than the best. - - - Read my blog!
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 17:46 GMT
#57
On May 21 2011 00:43 TheGiz wrote:
You do not have to know good to do good, and knowing good does not necessarily bring good either. A sociopath may know what 'good' is, but has no regard for doing good and it will not guide the sociopath's actions. Indifference is a form of sociopathy as well, and there are many people in the world who are simply indifferent.

That said, ethical people may still know good but may not always perform actions that fall into the realm of 'good,' because such actions may be guided by emotion, temptation, or necessity. Good is also inherently subjective, and as such individuals may claim to know what 'good' is despite having different ideas on the subject.

Knowing good does not help elevate oneself morally unless doing good also comes of it.

How do you do good if you don't know what good is?
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
May 20 2011 18:49 GMT
#58
On May 21 2011 02:46 platorepublic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2011 00:43 TheGiz wrote:
You do not have to know good to do good, and knowing good does not necessarily bring good either. A sociopath may know what 'good' is, but has no regard for doing good and it will not guide the sociopath's actions. Indifference is a form of sociopathy as well, and there are many people in the world who are simply indifferent.

That said, ethical people may still know good but may not always perform actions that fall into the realm of 'good,' because such actions may be guided by emotion, temptation, or necessity. Good is also inherently subjective, and as such individuals may claim to know what 'good' is despite having different ideas on the subject.

Knowing good does not help elevate oneself morally unless doing good also comes of it.

How do you do good if you don't know what good is?

If darkness is bad, why does it hide you? If light is good, why does it blind you?
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 20 2011 18:53 GMT
#59
On May 20 2011 11:22 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2011 08:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Isn't good = eudaimonia, which roughly means the good life. The virtues are means to obtaining eudaimonia. Virtues are both desirable for themselves and as means to an end. I haven't read any of this in a while though.

I think that was more Aristotle's idea of what the good is than Plato's.


no it isnt
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 20 2011 20:35 GMT
#60
On May 21 2011 03:49 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2011 02:46 platorepublic wrote:
On May 21 2011 00:43 TheGiz wrote:
You do not have to know good to do good, and knowing good does not necessarily bring good either. A sociopath may know what 'good' is, but has no regard for doing good and it will not guide the sociopath's actions. Indifference is a form of sociopathy as well, and there are many people in the world who are simply indifferent.

That said, ethical people may still know good but may not always perform actions that fall into the realm of 'good,' because such actions may be guided by emotion, temptation, or necessity. Good is also inherently subjective, and as such individuals may claim to know what 'good' is despite having different ideas on the subject.

Knowing good does not help elevate oneself morally unless doing good also comes of it.

How do you do good if you don't know what good is?

If darkness is bad, why does it hide you? If light is good, why does it blind you?

I never said darkness is bad/light is good.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
May 20 2011 21:09 GMT
#61
On May 21 2011 05:35 platorepublic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2011 03:49 Pandain wrote:
On May 21 2011 02:46 platorepublic wrote:
On May 21 2011 00:43 TheGiz wrote:
You do not have to know good to do good, and knowing good does not necessarily bring good either. A sociopath may know what 'good' is, but has no regard for doing good and it will not guide the sociopath's actions. Indifference is a form of sociopathy as well, and there are many people in the world who are simply indifferent.

That said, ethical people may still know good but may not always perform actions that fall into the realm of 'good,' because such actions may be guided by emotion, temptation, or necessity. Good is also inherently subjective, and as such individuals may claim to know what 'good' is despite having different ideas on the subject.

Knowing good does not help elevate oneself morally unless doing good also comes of it.

How do you do good if you don't know what good is?

If darkness is bad, why does it hide you? If light is good, why does it blind you?

I never said darkness is bad/light is good.


I know you are, but what am I?
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-20 22:19:23
May 20 2011 22:02 GMT
#62
--- Nuked ---
LlamaNamedOsama
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1900 Posts
May 21 2011 06:58 GMT
#63
On May 21 2011 00:43 TheGiz wrote:
You do not have to know good to do good, and knowing good does not necessarily bring good either. A sociopath may know what 'good' is, but has no regard for doing good and it will not guide the sociopath's actions. Indifference is a form of sociopathy as well, and there are many people in the world who are simply indifferent.

That said, ethical people may still know good but may not always perform actions that fall into the realm of 'good,' because such actions may be guided by emotion, temptation, or necessity. Good is also inherently subjective, and as such individuals may claim to know what 'good' is despite having different ideas on the subject.

Knowing good does not help elevate oneself morally unless doing good also comes of it.


I agree that knowing good may not be sufficient to achieve good, but knowledge of good is still necessary to achieve good. Plus your statement of "you do not have to know good to do good" begs the question of what is good before we can imagine that it can be done in ignorance of it.
Dario Wünsch: I guess...Creator...met his maker *sunglasses*
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 21 2011 09:08 GMT
#64
On May 21 2011 15:58 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2011 00:43 TheGiz wrote:
You do not have to know good to do good, and knowing good does not necessarily bring good either. A sociopath may know what 'good' is, but has no regard for doing good and it will not guide the sociopath's actions. Indifference is a form of sociopathy as well, and there are many people in the world who are simply indifferent.

That said, ethical people may still know good but may not always perform actions that fall into the realm of 'good,' because such actions may be guided by emotion, temptation, or necessity. Good is also inherently subjective, and as such individuals may claim to know what 'good' is despite having different ideas on the subject.

Knowing good does not help elevate oneself morally unless doing good also comes of it.


I agree that knowing good may not be sufficient to achieve good, but knowledge of good is still necessary to achieve good. Plus your statement of "you do not have to know good to do good" begs the question of what is good before we can imagine that it can be done in ignorance of it.

Good.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
Fulgrim
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States560 Posts
May 23 2011 02:12 GMT
#65
You're going to confuse people by just calling things "good". Plato's definition of the good was a completely different thing then the moral "good" that comes to mind in our present day culture. Your trying to explain good with 2 different language games.

Good for Plato was the source of all knowledge. The sun was to sight, as the good was to reason and knowledge. Its not a moral question, its a question of metaphysics, of what is and what isn't. If you want to study Plato, you should see everything in this world as shadows of forms that the good is shining on.
One does not simply walk into mordor
platorepublic
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom344 Posts
May 23 2011 12:40 GMT
#66
If you want to study Plato, you should see everything in this world as shadows of forms that the good is shining on.

What he said. Good one, Fulgrim.
Even though I've never met you, I still miss you.
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