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It's definitely weird. I'd like to know where 400k comes from!
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is awesome32274 Posts
What are you talking about King Ansadi's tournament went perfectly well.
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We have the money to pay out the prize pool. We don't have "sponsors" like Intel or anything. If we get anything like that, the community will be the first to know :D
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I feel like the money is coming from a single donor. I mean come on, have you seen the production for NASL? It has to be a person donating the money. I feel like this person would rather not be mentioned for his sake. Maybe he runs a huge business that really can't be seen dealing with the E-Sports scene? Meaning if other clients of his see this, they might think he's a child and not want to do business with this said donor. This is my take on the NASL prize pool.
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On May 18 2011 07:40 Xeris wrote:
We have the money to pay out the prize pool. We don't have "sponsors" like Intel or anything. If we get anything like that, the community will be the first to know :D
You have said this before but how can we be sure besides you assurances that you are telling the truth. I mean I really like you guys but that doesn't mean I abandon all logic and don't ask the questions.
Are you guys funding it out of pocket? Because 400k seems a little insane out of pocket for this sort of venture. When you say we have the money, who do you mean by we and where did you get it from? I know you guys have tried to be super responsive to the community but this is a pretty big deal.
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On May 18 2011 07:40 IntoTheWow wrote:
What are you talking about King Ansadi's tournament went perfectly well.
What Xeris doesn't want us to know is that the great king is sponsoring NASL. It all makes perfect sense, he did say he was going to return in the future with even greater tourneys.
OH MESSENGER WHERE HAVE YOU GONE
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I'm afraid this has been asked many times before with no clear answer for no apparent reason unfortunately. I don't quite get why someone would give 400k to any eSports tournament and not even want any publicity or anything from it at all.
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Alright guys lets work together to get to the bottom of this. We will uncover the truth!
Bring out the TL detectives~!
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On May 18 2011 07:47 infinity2k9 wrote:
I'm afraid this has been asked many times before with no clear answer for no apparent reason unfortunately. I don't quite get why someone would give 400k to any eSports tournament and not even want any publicity or anything from it at all.
400K + costs for NASL team isn't much for a venture caplitalist
maybe there's some rich investor that likes e-sports and/or Starcraft and is willing to give out some money to see how well the NASL setup can grow or maybe the owners of gosucoaching did one hell of a job pitching NASL to venture capitalists
FX Open, a forex broker, has a SC2 team, and I can't imagine what value a forex broker gets out of being advertised through a SC2 team.
anyways, people with money see potential in things and are willing to give some out to see where that potential goes.
the objective is to gain a profit from the risk spent. e-peen doesn't translate to real life.
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Two words: angel investor.
On May 18 2011 07:47 infinity2k9 wrote:
I'm afraid this has been asked many times before with no clear answer for no apparent reason unfortunately. I don't quite get why someone would give 400k to any eSports tournament and not even want any publicity or anything from it at all.
If someone buys stock in a company, are they looking for "publicity" by doing so? I don't anyone "gave" money at all--they invested it, taking a risk on the chance that the NASL will take off, get sponsors and make back their initial investment many times over.
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I seriously don't understand peoples fears if this. I would also be cautious around new startups but the people that have created and are working on this league are solid veteran community members that have shown time and time again that they are reliable and can be trusted, the Gosucoaching league being one example.
Some also might argue that they paid $25 to see this league and want to know it is legitimate but all you have paid for is the stream quality and VODs which we are receiving. The only people that should really worry is the players but like I have said, the league is backed by veteran members of the community and I can almost guarantee that all of them are not worried about the leagues money running dry.
They have assured us that the money is real and they have it. I would like to think we can give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On May 18 2011 08:01 MechaCthulhu wrote:Two words: angel investor. Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 07:47 infinity2k9 wrote:
I'm afraid this has been asked many times before with no clear answer for no apparent reason unfortunately. I don't quite get why someone would give 400k to any eSports tournament and not even want any publicity or anything from it at all. If someone buys stock in a company, are they looking for "publicity" by doing so? I don't anyone "gave" money at all--they invested it, taking a risk on the chance that the NASL will take off, get sponsors and make back their initial investment many times over.
I'm pretty sure it can be a write-off for a legitimate business also. Regardless, no one has any right to preemptively assume they're not going to pay. I appreciate that there is some precedent for payments not being made, but if they've said they're not going to announce it, what could you possibly expect to come from this thread?
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On May 18 2011 08:05 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 08:01 MechaCthulhu wrote:Two words: angel investor. On May 18 2011 07:47 infinity2k9 wrote:
I'm afraid this has been asked many times before with no clear answer for no apparent reason unfortunately. I don't quite get why someone would give 400k to any eSports tournament and not even want any publicity or anything from it at all. If someone buys stock in a company, are they looking for "publicity" by doing so? I don't anyone "gave" money at all--they invested it, taking a risk on the chance that the NASL will take off, get sponsors and make back their initial investment many times over. I'm pretty sure it can be a write-off for a legitimate business also. Regardless, no one has any right to preemptively assume they're not going to pay. I appreciate that there is some precedent for payments not being made, but if they've said they're not going to announce it, what could you possibly expect to come from this thread?
An answer why they won't announce it.... I thought it was obvious from the discussion. Or at least some more explanation other than "Trust us" or two bullshit sentences about how they have it.
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First off: I am not a staff of NASL, just another enthusiastic customer. Everything below are purely speculation and conjunctures off based on my personal experience in the business world and a little reading between the line.
I can never figure out why so TL finds it so hard to grasp the very basic concept of creating and investing in a corporation whose product happen to be E-sports related. You'd think for a community whose sole existence is everything E-sports, delivering it as a product would be a simple business concept.
From what I can tell of the NASL official communications, NASL is a corporation started with venture capital, aka the man behind the mask is an angel investor, whom was sold of the concept of E-sport as a marketable and profitable product and willing to risk a large pile on money on it.
Somewhere in the nerfeous NASL studio, there was a man or men whom watched the success of GSL and thought: I can make money if I make a league like that in the States! He crunched his numbers, put together a business proposal, gather his industry contacts, and presented this business idea to people with fat wallets. These people, aka those that am willing to invest in Google or Facebook before they become big profitable giants that they are, went through the business proposal and agreed -- the business is viable, so took the leap of faith and dumped a million dollars (completely arbitrary, btw) on this idea.
Where did the money come from? The initial investor. If the business fail and NASL fails to make a profit, NASL will close doors in a year or two. If NASL become a massive success, the man with the idea and the angel investors are both going to become very, very rich. The money is there. THERE IS NO SCAM. THAT IS HOW INVESTMENT WORKS.
Why are there no sponsors? Quiet simply, sponsors do not like to put money into an unknown entity. That's why it took IM a whole year, after winning 4 GSLs, to finally find a sponsor. That's why MVP, fOu, PRIME still are paying their players na-da. Are sponsors needed for NASL? Depends on how the numbers are made in the business plan. If the HD pass sales and JTV ad revenue are sufficient to cover the expenses (which the prizepool is only a minor portion of), NASL can very well survive and thrive without a sponsor, ever.
Of course, it'll be nice if NASL does get some sponsors. Extra revenue stream is always welcome when you are steering a fledging business.
Primadog has a background in small business. You may remember a very strange stone-company that once sponsored the King of Beta Tournament/Day9 Launch Party.
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Tbh, even if the prize money is non-existant, the NASL has brought us extremely exciting games from star players on a regular basis - for that, I thank them (and the secret investor).
If this is indeed a farce it would definitely shine a negative light on the "foreign" esports scene - and possibly even a criminal offense. I am sure the police will get right onto.
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They don't owe you an answer. I don't get this sense of entitlement some people have. Come back and be outraged while making wild assumptions if they actually don't pay out.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 08:14 Primadog wrote:
First off: I am not a staff of NASL, just another enthusiastic customer. Everything below are purely speculation and conjunctures off based on my personal experience in the business world and a little reading between the line.
I can never figure out why so TL finds it so hard to grasp the very basic concept of creating and investing in a corporation whose product happen to be E-sports related. You'd think for a community whose sole existence is everything E-sports, delivering it as a product would be a simple business concept.
From what I can tell of the NASL official communications, NASL is a corporation started with venture capital, aka the man behind the mask is an angel investor, whom was sold of the concept of E-sport as a marketable and profitable product and willing to risk a large pile on money on it.
Somewhere in the nerfeous NASL studio, there was a man or men whom watched the success of GSL and thought: I can make money if I make a league like that in the States! He crunched his numbers, put together a business proposal, gather his industry contacts, and presented this business idea to people with fat wallets. These people, aka those that am willing to invest in Google or Facebook before they become big profitable giants that they are, went through the business proposal and agreed -- the business is viable, so took the leap of faith and dumped a million dollars (completely arbitrary, btw) on this idea.
Where did the money come from? The initial investor. If the business fail and NASL fails to make a profit, NASL will close doors in a year or two. If NASL become a massive success, the man with the idea and the angel investors are both going to become very, very rich. The money is there. THERE IS NO SCAM. THAT IS HOW INVESTMENT WORKS.
Why are there no sponsors? Quiet simply, sponsors do not like to put money into an unknown entity. That's why it took IM a whole year, after winning 4 GSLs, to finally find a sponsor. That's why MVP, fOu, PRIME still are paying their players na-da. Are sponsors needed for NASL? Depends on how the numbers are made in the business plan. If the HD pass sales and JTV ad revenue are sufficient to cover the expenses (which the prizepool is only a minor portion of), NASL can very well survive and thrive without a sponsor, ever.
Of course, it'll be nice if NASL does get some sponsors. Extra revenue stream is always nice in a business environment.
Primadog has a background in small business. You may remember a very strange stone-company that once sponsored the King of Beta Tournament/Day9 Launch Party.
I understand how an investment works but I just wish they would say that is what that is. I feel like if you are going to make a solid investment and you want it to succeed in a community with a history of league failure with evaporating prizes then it would make sense to put a name out there to build confidence.
Personally I don't think all investors insist on being faceless and nameless. This is a case where insisting on this anonymity is particularly damaging.
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It could be a wealth of options, but the most likely option is that of the one mentioned by Primadog. Either those involved in NASL did the legwork and worked to accumulate the VC themselves through a company or single angel, or the members were approached by the aforementioned.
It's not completely unheard of for an individual angel or VC company to do the work themselves. A lot of due diligence, studies and reports get done for investments, and some companies are proactive in their approach. A friend of mine had his company approached by a VC firm for investment, on all the basis of them keeping their ear close to the ground and doing their research.
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On May 18 2011 08:30 Zim23 wrote:
They don't owe you an answer. I don't get this sense of entitlement some people have. Come back and be outraged while making wild assumptions if they actually don't pay out.
You don't think people who invest in a league are entitled to verify that it is legit? I don't feel like I am asking for an arm and a leg especially when I a huge supporter. I just want a little more explanation for behavior that seems outside the norm when it comes to the running of tournaments.
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I think the best thing is to just accept the fact someone or some people invested into an idea and that is all. When a new business starts up in your town/city do you go right to them and say "How can you afford to do this, I want to know how you got the money and who is backing you!"?
No you just accept a new business started up and see what they have to offer, you might go back and give them more service or you might just continue on and never go back. Who cares how they got the money, the only thing we should care about as consumers is how good the product is.
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On May 18 2011 09:01 SlipperySnake wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 08:30 Zim23 wrote:
They don't owe you an answer. I don't get this sense of entitlement some people have. Come back and be outraged while making wild assumptions if they actually don't pay out. You don't think people who invest in a league are entitled to verify that it is legit? I don't feel like I am asking for an arm and a leg especially when I a huge supporter. I just want a little more explanation for behavior that seems outside the norm when it comes to the running of tournaments.
You're not investing in the league, you're a paying customer. You have the right to what they promised you (games, commentary, production) when you bought your season pass. Nothing more, nothing less.
The people that are putting up the money for this are the ones investing, and it seems like they have sufficiently convinced the players/teams to join in, which should be enough for you, seeing how they have way more to loose then you. How they manage to finance it all isn't something you have a right to know.
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They obviously don't want us to know or else they would have told us. I don't think we are entitled to know at all. Sure it would be nice, but what private business is entitled to reveal all their internal workings?
(speculation)
My guess is that it all comes from a private investor, most likely Russ(?) who Incontrol has mentioned as owner and also to be very involved in the league. He put up 400k + operation costs (probably another few hundred thousand due to team and studio costs), and expects to get back some revenue:
- season tickets (every 10,000 subscribers = 200-250,000)
- justin.tv ads (no idea, I'll wildly guess $20 per ad, 24 ads/day, 5 days/wk, 12/wks ~ 30,000)
I think it's pretty common for investors to expect to lose money at the start. If NASL grows in subscribers and viewers, and manage to land a sponsor for future seasons, they could very well make a profit.
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On May 18 2011 09:11 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 09:01 SlipperySnake wrote:On May 18 2011 08:30 Zim23 wrote:
They don't owe you an answer. I don't get this sense of entitlement some people have. Come back and be outraged while making wild assumptions if they actually don't pay out. You don't think people who invest in a league are entitled to verify that it is legit? I don't feel like I am asking for an arm and a leg especially when I a huge supporter. I just want a little more explanation for behavior that seems outside the norm when it comes to the running of tournaments. You're not investing in the league, you're a paying customer. You have the right to what they promised you (games, commentary, production) when you bought your season pass. Nothing more, nothing less. The people that are putting up the money for this are the ones investing, and it seems like they have sufficiently convinced the players/teams to join in, which should be enough for you, seeing how they have way more to loose then you. How they manage to finance it all isn't something you have a right to know.
If you want to be super literal with the word invest then that is fine but customers in the sense I was using it are investors in that they are support the league. We can argue semantics if you want but even just as a fan I think we deserve a little more information.
Just the fact that you talk about me having a right to know shows how black and white you see this situation as. I am simply a fan asking for more information and I was saying that as a fan and customer I have put a lot of effort into supporting the NASL so I would like to know that it is legit.
Now this same argument is tiring me out, NASL promised not just a so nebulous amount of games but the money behind it. The prize is what makes it a tournament, it isn't just some random trivial fact that I am prying at. The fact that the players are winning this money is what adds all the tension, don't get me wrong I am not going to stop watching the NASL but I would feel a lot better if I knew a little more.
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From whats been tossed around it just seems like the 400k came from a private investor from hollywood, same people who would put the money up for B-list movies, etc. They don't have to name themselves as a sponsor just because its an esports tournament and thats what we're used to, money is money.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On May 18 2011 09:01 SlipperySnake wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 08:30 Zim23 wrote:
They don't owe you an answer. I don't get this sense of entitlement some people have. Come back and be outraged while making wild assumptions if they actually don't pay out. You don't think people who invest in a league are entitled to verify that it is legit? I don't feel like I am asking for an arm and a leg especially when I a huge supporter. I just want a little more explanation for behavior that seems outside the norm when it comes to the running of tournaments.
You want an explanation but they've stated they don't want to give one. That's basically it. If you wanted to know artosis' gf's name you could want it but you're not entitled to it. Same thing here.
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You know now that I think about it it would make a lot of scene if there was some tech company that was trying to start a league under the radar and just plunged a whole heap of cash into the thing to make it work.
The thing is is that ever sence 9/11 tech companies have slowly been making large warchests of cash and now that the storm of the recession is over they are slowly buying up stuff that they can use (Microsoft buying skype for 6 BIL?) The bit tech companies have billions and billions of cash lieing around and it wouldn't be too far out of the picture if one of them is lead by a guy who likes video games and would want his name to be on the start of it in america. And for only a half a million shouldn't be too much of a stretch for them.
What I want to know is what kind of profit schedule that they have running. How much do they get for the free streamers and how many subs they are getting. No real company in the business has shared this so I guess I'll still be left wondering.
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On May 18 2011 09:35 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 09:01 SlipperySnake wrote:On May 18 2011 08:30 Zim23 wrote:
They don't owe you an answer. I don't get this sense of entitlement some people have. Come back and be outraged while making wild assumptions if they actually don't pay out. You don't think people who invest in a league are entitled to verify that it is legit? I don't feel like I am asking for an arm and a leg especially when I a huge supporter. I just want a little more explanation for behavior that seems outside the norm when it comes to the running of tournaments. You want an explanation but they've stated they don't want to give one. That's basically it. If you wanted to know artosis' gf's name you could want it but you're not entitled to it. Same thing here.
You don't get what you want by forgetting about, I think it is important to keep asking. NASL has proven they respond to pressure and the will of the community (which is one of the best qualities) in the past so why not with this issue. If it is important enough then at least I hope they will accommodate.
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Again, conjunctures, et al
Okay, I think we all are in agreement that the source of funding is probably an unnamed angel investor.
If so, the answer to why he/she/they is unnamed is actually quite simple - he asks NASL to not name him. It should be obvious just from this thread, that NASL stood to benefit from announcing their financially backer, but they didn't. Frankly, I would not be surprised if Russ & Co actually argued hard to making it public, but was refused by the man who holds the purse.
If you think a little about it, there are plenty of reasons why they don't want the publicity. Sponsors care about publicity because what they buy are exposure, but what good is exposure when your business is other businesses? In fact, exposure can be quite detrimental - venture capital by nature often fails. Will you, as an angel investor, prefer to see your name tied to a 80pt font front page article about the latest business failure? That kind of exposure can very well cost you far more than whatever you put in the startup in the first place. It makes more sense to keep it anonymous then publicize once the start-up succeed, if you really want the pat in the back.
The angel investor I worked with also asked to remain anonymous, but for a different reason - he fears competition. A public announcement just invites others in the industry to notice a potential market. Additionally, he fears backlash from his customers who may see it an aggressive incursion into their market.
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On May 18 2011 09:34 SlipperySnake wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 09:11 Derez wrote:On May 18 2011 09:01 SlipperySnake wrote:On May 18 2011 08:30 Zim23 wrote:
They don't owe you an answer. I don't get this sense of entitlement some people have. Come back and be outraged while making wild assumptions if they actually don't pay out. You don't think people who invest in a league are entitled to verify that it is legit? I don't feel like I am asking for an arm and a leg especially when I a huge supporter. I just want a little more explanation for behavior that seems outside the norm when it comes to the running of tournaments. You're not investing in the league, you're a paying customer. You have the right to what they promised you (games, commentary, production) when you bought your season pass. Nothing more, nothing less. The people that are putting up the money for this are the ones investing, and it seems like they have sufficiently convinced the players/teams to join in, which should be enough for you, seeing how they have way more to loose then you. How they manage to finance it all isn't something you have a right to know. If you want to be super literal with the word invest then that is fine but customers in the sense I was using it are investors in that they are support the league. We can argue semantics if you want but even just as a fan I think we deserve a little more information. Just the fact that you talk about me having a right to know shows how black and white you see this situation as. I am simply a fan asking for more information and I was saying that as a fan and customer I have put a lot of effort into supporting the NASL so I would like to know that it is legit. Now this same argument is tiring me out, NASL promised not just a so nebulous amount of games but the money behind it. The prize is what makes it a tournament, it isn't just some random trivial fact that I am prying at. The fact that the players are winning this money is what adds all the tension, don't get me wrong I am not going to stop watching the NASL but I would feel a lot better if I knew a little more.
The point was that your sense of entitlement isn't justified at all. Just because you want information doesn't mean that you should get it, or that 'the community' should try and pressure the NASL into providing it. This question has been brought up in multiple threads, and it's pretty clear that whomever is putting the money up for it doesn't want to be identified.
If anything, you should respect the decision that individual/organisation/whatever it is made, and be content that the NASL is providing what it promised so far. The group of people the NASL needs to convince of their financial capabilities are the players, the teams, and the team managers. They have obviously managed to do this, and I think the community should accept this too. You won't be missing out on the prizemoney if things fall through, players/teams will, so I say that we trust their judgement and give the NASL the benefit of the doubt (if you have any).
I don't see this as black and white, all I'm saying is that there is absolutely no reason to doubt anything the NASL has promised so far. As others have pointed out, in the world of venture capitalism, it's often not a good idea to have your name published until after something has become a succes.
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On May 18 2011 09:53 Primadog wrote:
Again, conjunctures, et al
Okay, I think we all are in agreement that the source of funding is probably an unnamed angel investor.
The answer to why he/she/they is unnamed would actually be fairly simple - he asks NASL to not name him. It should be obvious just from this thread, that NASL stood to benefit from announcing their financially backer, but they didn't. Frankly, I would not be surprised if Russ & Co actually argued hard to making it public, but was refused by the man who holds the purse.
If you think a little about it, there are plenty of reasons why they don't want the publicity. Sponsors care about publicity because what they buy are exposure, but what good is exposure when your business is other businesses? In fact, exposure can be quite detrimental - venture capital by nature often fails. Will you, as an angel investor, prefer to see your name tied to a 80pt font front page article about the latest business failure? That kind of exposure can very well cost you far more than whatever you put in the startup in the first place. It makes more sense to keep it anonymous then publicize once the start-up succeed, if you really want the pat in the back.
The angel investor I worked with also asked to remain anonymous, but for a different reason - he fears competition. A public announcement just invites others in the industry to notice a potential market. Additionally, he fears backlash from his customers who may see it an aggressive incursion into their market.
Yeah I think I am in absolute agreement with your reasoning all the way down to the reasons for anonymity. I guess then the next question becomes, will there be some sort of dramatic unveiling when he thinking NASL has become successful enough? Or will he just stay anonymous and will that be a bigger issue over time?
I know this isn't what you really touched on but as fans I feel we deserve to know more than just having this sort of man behind the curtain. Now I know it could be argued that at least we know he isn't trying to bilk us for advertising dollars but I feel like not knowing what his motives are is worse. I guess I will always just feel a that the league is a little shady if the sponsor is unknown even after the put up the prize money for season 1.
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On May 18 2011 10:11 SlipperySnake wrote:
I guess then the next question becomes, will there be some sort of dramatic unveiling when he thinking NASL has become successful enough? Or will he just stay anonymous and will that be a bigger issue over time?
Ultimately depends, but I would say the strong likelihood will be that nothing will ever come to the forefront.
Just think of most companies and products. The majority of them will have received some aspect of capital through investment during the course of their existence, and you hear nothing of those contributors in almost 100% of those instances.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 09:59 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 09:34 SlipperySnake wrote:On May 18 2011 09:11 Derez wrote:On May 18 2011 09:01 SlipperySnake wrote:On May 18 2011 08:30 Zim23 wrote:
They don't owe you an answer. I don't get this sense of entitlement some people have. Come back and be outraged while making wild assumptions if they actually don't pay out. You don't think people who invest in a league are entitled to verify that it is legit? I don't feel like I am asking for an arm and a leg especially when I a huge supporter. I just want a little more explanation for behavior that seems outside the norm when it comes to the running of tournaments. You're not investing in the league, you're a paying customer. You have the right to what they promised you (games, commentary, production) when you bought your season pass. Nothing more, nothing less. The people that are putting up the money for this are the ones investing, and it seems like they have sufficiently convinced the players/teams to join in, which should be enough for you, seeing how they have way more to loose then you. How they manage to finance it all isn't something you have a right to know. If you want to be super literal with the word invest then that is fine but customers in the sense I was using it are investors in that they are support the league. We can argue semantics if you want but even just as a fan I think we deserve a little more information. Just the fact that you talk about me having a right to know shows how black and white you see this situation as. I am simply a fan asking for more information and I was saying that as a fan and customer I have put a lot of effort into supporting the NASL so I would like to know that it is legit. Now this same argument is tiring me out, NASL promised not just a so nebulous amount of games but the money behind it. The prize is what makes it a tournament, it isn't just some random trivial fact that I am prying at. The fact that the players are winning this money is what adds all the tension, don't get me wrong I am not going to stop watching the NASL but I would feel a lot better if I knew a little more. The point was that your sense of entitlement isn't justified at all. Just because you want information doesn't mean that you should get it, or that 'the community' should try and pressure the NASL into providing it. This question has been brought up in multiple threads, and it's pretty clear that whomever is putting the money up for it doesn't want to be identified. If anything, you should respect the decision that individual/organisation/whatever it is made, and be content that the NASL is providing what it promised so far. The group of people the NASL needs to convince of their financial capabilities are the players, the teams, and the team managers. They have obviously managed to do this, and I think the community should accept this too. You won't be missing out on the prizemoney if things fall through, players/teams will, so I say that we trust their judgement and give the NASL the benefit of the doubt (if you have any). I don't see this as black and white, all I'm saying is that there is absolutely no reason to doubt anything the NASL has promised so far. As others have pointed out, in the world of venture capitalism, it's often not a good idea to have your name published until after something has become a succes.
First I think there is very good reason to doubt what NASL has promised so far. Not because anything personal but because of the unpaid prize money from other leagues in combination with their lack of transparency when it comes to funding. I feel this is the major reason why I, as a paying customer, feel entitled to know that the competition is legitimate. I am not saying that they have to give me this information I am just saying that I think they should and that I will push for them to and try to change their mind.
The reason I think they should is outlined in my concern, they can decide whether they will release the information but that is how I feel about it and my opinion. If whoever is putting up the money doesn't want their name out there then ultimately they probably have the final say but I don't think just because they are in the position of power that I as a fan just have to give in. I think it is important to let them know that I think they should be more transparent. As I have said previously the NASL is very in tune with the community and if the community wants more transparency then I think they will work towards it. If you don't care that is totally fine but I do and that is why I brought the issue up, because it is one of my concerns and I want to do something about it.
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In the G4 interview iNcontroL did back when the league was announced, he said that the money is insured/backed by Blizzard (http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/710588/North-American-Star-League-Exclusive-Interview-with-Geoff-iNcontroL-Robinson.html).
For the funding that you've received how many seasons is that money going to go towards?
We're already sold on three seasons. The money has been budgeted and secured. There's no like, “well gosh, if season one does really well then season two will be fine.” It's completely secure for three seasons. It's all insured and backed by Blizzard, that kind of stuff. And the idea again is that we laid down the infrastructure, it grows, gets easier as we go, and then if it's a profitable venture we can continue on for four, five, six seasons and beyond.
I guess he could be lying, but Blizzard wouldn't stand for that I'm sure.
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Maybe Blizzard funding this tournament? Like how S2 sponsoring Hon tournament and Riot with LoL.
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On May 18 2011 11:27 Bortlett wrote:In the G4 interview iNcontroL did back when the league was announced, he said that the money is insured/backed by Blizzard ( http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/710588/North-American-Star-League-Exclusive-Interview-with-Geoff-iNcontroL-Robinson.html). Show nested quote +For the funding that you've received how many seasons is that money going to go towards?
We're already sold on three seasons. The money has been budgeted and secured. There's no like, “well gosh, if season one does really well then season two will be fine.” It's completely secure for three seasons. It's all insured and backed by Blizzard, that kind of stuff. And the idea again is that we laid down the infrastructure, it grows, gets easier as we go, and then if it's a profitable venture we can continue on for four, five, six seasons and beyond.
I guess he could be lying, but Blizzard wouldn't stand for that I'm sure.
That turned out to be false, but there was never any big discussion about it. See the image:
![[image loading]](http://i52.tinypic.com/2vwgsq9.jpg)
Most people that remember initially going to the website saw the Blizzard logo in the right-hand box.
After someone at Blizzard was notified, the logo mysteriously disappeared from the site. In context, being "insured and backed by Blizzard" was probably meant more for a licensing deal, and allowance for the game to be used in competition for the NASL; not that the money was coming from them and that they were partnered. (which is why the image was removed, it gave a false sense of partnership and association)
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On May 19 2011 05:39 divito wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 11:27 Bortlett wrote:In the G4 interview iNcontroL did back when the league was announced, he said that the money is insured/backed by Blizzard ( http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/710588/North-American-Star-League-Exclusive-Interview-with-Geoff-iNcontroL-Robinson.html). For the funding that you've received how many seasons is that money going to go towards?
We're already sold on three seasons. The money has been budgeted and secured. There's no like, “well gosh, if season one does really well then season two will be fine.” It's completely secure for three seasons. It's all insured and backed by Blizzard, that kind of stuff. And the idea again is that we laid down the infrastructure, it grows, gets easier as we go, and then if it's a profitable venture we can continue on for four, five, six seasons and beyond.
I guess he could be lying, but Blizzard wouldn't stand for that I'm sure. That turned out to be false, but there was never any big discussion about it. See the image: Most people that remember initially going to the website saw the Blizzard logo in the right-hand box. After someone at Blizzard was notified, the logo mysteriously disappeared from the site. In context, being "insured and backed by Blizzard" was probably meant more for a licensing deal, and allowance for the game to be used in competition for the NASL; not that the money was coming from them and that they were partnered. (which is why the image was removed, it gave a false sense of partnership and association)
Hmm, did they say anything official as far as that information being incorrect? I think they still display the Blizzard logo during their broadcast at some point (the end I think?), would that be different from displaying it on their web site?
I'm not saying I don't believe you, this was just the first I had heard about it  .
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
it was improper wording by me.
The money isn't blizzards.
We are backed by blizzard in the sense that we have a license with them and they work with us on details. That is all.
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So King Ansadi is behind NASL? That guy is awesome! I wish he would post more.
On August 18 2010 04:48 KlNGANSADl wrote:
I often laugh (silently) when mortals question the character and motivations of a King. Who are you to question why the sky is blue, why the Earth moves or why a King does as he will? To Kings like LeBron and Myself, you are a cockroach, bold enough to defy us in the darkness, but will scatter under cover when we bring light.
It is beneath me to discuss this "Dan Gilbert", who weeps like a scorned mistress and gnashes her teeth through her tears. She should just feel relieved that Gracious King James didn't stoop lower to put her in her place like she deserves.
It is most uncouth for us to discuss matters of money with the poor, but as a jest: do you really think the trifle few millions that make any shred of difference to a King? Peasants trade in money, Kings trade in power.
You shame yourself with this public spectacle. Don't you have onions to farm or filthy children to spawn? One would be advised to keep one's snout to himself, lest it get cut off.
Hmm... Perhaps I, myself, will summer next year in Miami, to party with a true King and absorb some of that premium Miami trim.
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On May 18 2011 07:56 udgnim wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 07:47 infinity2k9 wrote:
I'm afraid this has been asked many times before with no clear answer for no apparent reason unfortunately. I don't quite get why someone would give 400k to any eSports tournament and not even want any publicity or anything from it at all. 400K + costs for NASL team isn't much for a venture caplitalist maybe there's some rich investor that likes e-sports and/or Starcraft and is willing to give out some money to see how well the NASL setup can grow or maybe the owners of gosucoaching did one hell of a job pitching NASL to venture capitalists FX Open, a forex broker, has a SC2 team, and I can't imagine what value a forex broker gets out of being advertised through a SC2 team. anyways, people with money see potential in things and are willing to give some out to see where that potential goes. the objective is to gain a profit from the risk spent. e-peen doesn't translate to real life.
I'm aware it's not much money to an investor, i'm very aware but there's no evidence this is the case until it's actually said at least.
Nevertheless the figures don't even add up to me, how is putting up 400k just in prize money alone going to get a profit, any time soon? There's no sponsors (ones that seem to be massively endorsing and involved at least as far as i know), and the subscriptions for 3 months cannot add up to the prize money plus other costs. Maybe the stream ads help but still... you could say it's a more long term thing but still, i can't see this to be very good unless some changes happen in the future. They are putting up way more than established leagues like ESL and MLG, with i believe smaller audiences and focused on only 1 game. Not to mention SC2 eSports is already a crowded market.
However this is just speculating on the business plan now so i'll stop
When there's a history of non-payments and scams i don't think this is much of a big question though. If it's seriously an investor then why not say it, we don't need to know who or any details. The fact it's just being dodged as a question is weird.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 19 2011 08:16 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 07:56 udgnim wrote:On May 18 2011 07:47 infinity2k9 wrote:
I'm afraid this has been asked many times before with no clear answer for no apparent reason unfortunately. I don't quite get why someone would give 400k to any eSports tournament and not even want any publicity or anything from it at all. 400K + costs for NASL team isn't much for a venture caplitalist maybe there's some rich investor that likes e-sports and/or Starcraft and is willing to give out some money to see how well the NASL setup can grow or maybe the owners of gosucoaching did one hell of a job pitching NASL to venture capitalists FX Open, a forex broker, has a SC2 team, and I can't imagine what value a forex broker gets out of being advertised through a SC2 team. anyways, people with money see potential in things and are willing to give some out to see where that potential goes. the objective is to gain a profit from the risk spent. e-peen doesn't translate to real life. I'm aware it's not much money to an investor, i'm very aware but there's no evidence this is the case until it's actually said at least. Nevertheless the figures don't even add up to me, how is putting up 400k just in prize money alone going to get a profit, any time soon? There's no sponsors (ones that seem to be massively endorsing and involved at least as far as i know), and the subscriptions for 3 months cannot add up to the prize money plus other costs. Maybe the stream ads help but still... you could say it's a more long term thing but still, i can't see this to be very good unless some changes happen in the future. They are putting up way more than established leagues like ESL and MLG, with i believe smaller audiences and focused on only 1 game. Not to mention SC2 eSports is already a crowded market. However this is just speculating on the business plan now so i'll stop When there's a history of non-payments and scams i don't think this is much of a big question though. If it's seriously an investor then why not say it, we don't need to know who or any details. The fact it's just being dodged as a question is weird.
I think it isn't just the fact that the NASL is dodging this question alone that is worrying but the way in which they dodge this question. Basically all of their responses have been two sentence sarcastic blerbs which in response to a serious issue is kind of frustrating. Also I feel like they keep trying to minimize the situation and pretend the question isn't relevant which is insulting. I hope they stop bull shitting soon.
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It actually isn't relevant. Here's why: you are a paying subscriber, which means you spent $25 to watch 13 weeks of Starcraft. You will get to watch the games and get your money's worth. What you paid for has absolutely nothing to do with paying the prize pool, because the games are going to happen regardless. That's where your 'investment' in the league ends.
What you'll have to do (or not do, your choice) is accept me telling you that we're a legitimate business and the prize pool for Season 1 will be paid. Players/teams have signed a contract, and as per the contract, all prizes will be paid within a specified timeframe after the season finishes.
That's all you need to know. All you can do is accept or reject that statement. You being abrasive on a message board and trying to bully us into giving you information isn't going to increase your chances of us telling you. I do appreciate your concern, however.
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On May 20 2011 10:13 Xeris wrote:
It actually isn't relevant. Here's why: you are a paying subscriber, which means you spent $25 to watch 13 weeks of Starcraft. You will get to watch the games and get your money's worth. What you paid for has absolutely nothing to do with paying the prize pool, because the games are going to happen regardless. That's where your 'investment' in the league ends.
What you'll have to do (or not do, your choice) is accept me telling you that we're a legitimate business and the prize pool for Season 1 will be paid. Players/teams have signed a contract, and as per the contract, all prizes will be paid within a specified timeframe after the season finishes.
That's all you need to know. All you can do is accept or reject that statement. You being abrasive on a message board and trying to bully us into giving you information isn't going to increase your chances of us telling you. I do appreciate your concern, however.
It is kind of ironic that you are saying that I or maybe others are bullying. Are you joking? You have had flippant at best responses including this one which you try to salvage with you last sentence. I understand you don't want to disclose more information but trying telling your customers/fans that their concerns aren't relevant or basically that it is none of their business is insulting to their intelligence. I don't expect you to be a perfect customer service representative or whatever but overall the response has been to act evasive and dismissive whenever this issue comes up.
This is an issue for your customers and that is part of why I am posting this. As a customer I care where the money comes from and that it is there. I appreciate that you are reading this but repeating your current dismissive and evasive approach(aka you have to trust me) just emphasizes why I am concerned.
Please, instead of just saying the same thing over and over again engage one of your fans. I am not saying you have to answer my question but hearing a reason why you can't disclose this information would be much appreciated. Or if even a reason for why you can't tell me the sponsor is too much then at least avoid saying basically my question isn't relevant or bullshitting.
I am not going to write another paragraph of why my question is relevant because I think I have explained that multiple times in the thread but I will just try to sum it up in one question. Do you think as many people would watch if instead of 100k your prize pool was 3k?
DISCLAIMER: I am watching the NASL right now as I am writing this so I am by no means trying to set some kind of ultimatum but I just want to voice my main concern. Thanks.
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On May 18 2011 07:40 IntoTheWow wrote:
What are you talking about King Ansadi's tournament went perfectly well.
Searched it up.... ROFLMAO !XP thats one part of the history of TL that I hadnt read. What was he banned for?
Slippery.. dont put too much thought into it. You wouldnt go to a private companys office and demand to know where they are getting their money from. You wouldnt even question fxo or teamliquid as to how they pay their players salary so why do you expect NASL to do the same? If im not mistaken wasnt the first TSL a huge gamble in planning until midway razer appeared and threw up the money to make it possible?
Saying you are worried cos they might get screwed over is a poor excuse. The players take on that risk themselves otherwise they wouldnt enter that tourney or sign up with their teams.
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EPT
