• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:39
CEST 09:39
KST 16:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon8[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway13
Community News
SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia6Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues23LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time What happened to Singapore/Brazil servers? SC4ALL: A North American StarCraft LAN Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon
Tourneys
SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series LANified! 37: Groundswell, BYOC LAN, Nov 28-30 2025 LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ alas... i aint gon' lie to u bruh... BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group B Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Ro16 Group A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 The PlayStation 5 General RTS Discussion Thread Iron Harvest: 1920+
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1377 users

Thoughts From Day9 Daily #299

Blogs > FODDER~
Post a Reply
FODDER~
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States109 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 00:36:11
May 06 2011 00:31 GMT
#1
Note: This is part of a series of blogs I may start (depending if you guys would like to see more of it) in celebration of Day9's 300 episode milestone as I have always found his show both entertaining and educational. In such a blog series I would kind of expand Day9's lectures, do some brainstorming and theorycrafting and give you guys some food for thought and deeper analysis of his episodes. This potential blog series I may start (again depending if it's something you guys would enjoy) would be done assuming you watched the episode in question. The ordering of what episodes and which ones the blog series will deal with is not decided. I may go in chronological order and do near every episode. I may just jump around randomly from previous and future episodes. Who knows? Again this is assuming you guys enjoy this potential blog series and would like to see more of it. Anyways without further ado...

What Day9 Touched Upon

In the recent Day9 Daily #299 Day9 highlighted two very nice concepts. Redundancy and how to avoid it, and purpose and how to extend it from every unit and building. For now I'd like to focus on the concept of purpose he brought up. For instance, not just doing 'X' because of 'X'. Doing 'X' because 'X' can serve the purpose of doing 'X', 'Y', 'Z', and potentially more. For instance building a supply depot not just for the sake of supply but for the sake of perpetual vision of your main base, to complete a wall-off, and so on. And it got me thinking.

A New Perspective

I'm going to take what Day9 said a few steps further. Think of individualism for your units as their lifespan. I want you to literally think of it as their life support. As life itself. When they lose their individualism they no longer exist as an individual unit. Now think of their lifespan as their purpose. Think of purpose directly correlating to the life force of a unit. Now consider that when your unit's purpose expires, so does their individual existence. Now you may be confused as just because your first marine's purpose of denying the initial harvester scout (for a simple example) is over that it does not suddenly explode like a changeling after it has served it's purpose. No... it is quite different. When a unit's individualism dies it's individual existence is what comes to an end (not it's overall existence which may end from battle). The unit is still on the map but as more units are made all the units begin to assimilate into a blob. Where unit's lose their individual value and only become valuable while as one. The unit's no longer have their own purpose rather than to conform to the surrounding units that they make up the blob with. It becomes anonymous and forgotten. It's value diminishes to virtually nothing on it's own as the blob grows of anonymous amasses.

Consider This

I want you to think for a second and consider that this may not be the best way to go about things if this is how you play.

Why?

Reasons For Consideration With Past Evidence

Well think back to BW when there was a lot of small dynamic confrontations going on. Every unit was valuable and key. Both on an individual scale and in the big picture.

In SC2 it seems losing units in blob trade-offs is rather common. Day9 himself has somewhat advocated the idea in the past that the blob syndrome is a sign we have a lot to learn about respecting our units and how valuable they can really be on their own. The big picture is still there, but not the empowering relevance of minuteness and small-scale confrontations.

The Pros

Some side bonuses from forcing more dynamic small-scale confrontations is it allows for the following:

• The relevance of micro increases. If you are confident in your micro this definitely tips the scales in your favour in a fight where micro would have meant less.

• Allows for more multi-pronged attacks to not only be more viable but also more likely to be successful as your opponent would be forced to spread their army thinner than they may be used to and can be very intensive on their APM. Again, where APM may not have been as big of a factor before you can once again chalk up another advantage if you are confident in your speed and efficiency and reap more of a benefit from it.

• Allows expansions to be more easily secured. A commonly advocated time to expand is behind aggression. With constant multi-pronged aggression (or at least map presence) that means you can really expand a lot more often than you would normally be able to get away with.

• Prevents deathballs from occurring. If you are constantly all over the map, their army is never truly one and thus a deathball is a phenomenon that simply can not occur.

• Prevents players from ever getting too comfortable. Especially Zerg opponents.

• Can often lead to outright contains and overreactions stemming from paranoia.

• Pretty much eliminates the possibility of you getting harassed.

• Can allow for constant army trades if you desire this (which is especially good for Zerg players).

The Cons

Of course with anything there are risks:

• Playing to such a dynamic and disperse style can lead to a possibility of losing to an all-in counter-attack (usually derived from an opponent who has lost their cool and is frustrated from the multi-pronged aggression and thus wants to end the game immediately out of spite) if you do not properly regroup in time to defend. Of course you can always force a base race as well in this scenario if it comes to that.

• If you are not confident in your speed and efficiency and your opponent is, a lot of the advantages that would come from playing this type of style could get lost in translation and actually come back to aiding your opponent more than yourself. Beware of advantages as very few ever have a name tag on them.

• The way you arrange the small confrontations and what units you decide to do so with is absolutely imperative because losing each and every one of these encounters badly leads to a complete and utter loss of any map control or presence. Thus, eliminating many if not most of the advantages to playing this style.

Final Thoughts

I have really been seeing a lot of top players playing to this style. A game of ThorZaIN against MC on Tal'Darim Altar for the TSL3 really did begin to show signs that the top scene is gearing their play to more multi-pronged style. And I really think that it is a style worth delving into and considering rather than being guilty of the 'blob syndrome' as Day9 would put it. If we're lucky (due to the nature of the next Funday Monday) we may even see some interesting examples of this style submitted to Day9. Anyways that is all for now guys. Take care, happy gaming, and as for me back to the practice partner search! Later.

*****
I am a Diamond league Protoss player in need of any form of help that can be given. If you believe you can help please contact me. I really want to improve more than anything and just need a form of guidance and small push in the truely right direction.
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
May 06 2011 00:41 GMT
#2
The existentialist paragraph (A New Perspective) was pretty uh... creepy. But anyways, this isn't a new style. Splitting your army, having separate armies, flanking, etc. are all basic tactics.

I feel really confused after reading your blog. :\ Since you seem really excited about this kind of play though, I recommend you watch some of qxc's games. He utilizes ghosts and reapers in minimal numbers and in many different ways.
#TeamBuLba
FODDER~
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States109 Posts
May 06 2011 00:51 GMT
#3
garlicface:

The existentialist paragraph (A New Perspective) was pretty uh... creepy. But anyways, this isn't a new style. Splitting your army, having separate armies, flanking, etc. are all basic tactics.

I feel really confused after reading your blog. :\ Since you seem really excited about this kind of play though, I recommend you watch some of qxc's games. He utilizes ghosts and reapers in minimal numbers and in many different ways.


Yeah, a lot of top players have been starting to play this way for a while a now. But what bugs me is not everyone which is a shame. So I just wanted to lay out the style and give the pros and cons to it for anyone considering it. I really do, as well as many others includeing Day9 that this style is a lot more proficient and the way to go for more interesting, fun, and efficient games.
Overall I feel everyone should respect the individual power of every single unit in the game. And unfortunately a lot of players still fall into that 'blob syndrome'.
I am a Diamond league Protoss player in need of any form of help that can be given. If you believe you can help please contact me. I really want to improve more than anything and just need a form of guidance and small push in the truely right direction.
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
May 06 2011 01:11 GMT
#4
I forget where I heard it exactly (maybe State of the Game), but people were talking about how SC2 units stack (clump together tightly) far more than BW units. When it comes to using ranged units like marines (with the exception vs banelings) and stalkers (with the exception of blink micro), there is less micro involved. You just couldn't fit as many BW units into a cluster - control group limits also play a role here - so each unit that did fit was significantly more important. There definitely was an emphasis on making the most out of what little you had.

That said though, the mentality still holds true in SC2. Pros try not to overproduce corrupters vs collossi, banelings for a bust, etc. I think the emphasis is that in SC2, your army is as strong as the number of units you have attacking at a time.

BW also had a ton of AoE spells and attacks, such as irradiate, spider mines, and lurkers. If you were cautious of any of those spells or attacks being used against you, your focus would be on individual unit micro. Splitting marines to dodge spines. Pulling one dragoon when the spider mine was locked onto it, or pulling that one irradiated muta out of your clump.

I think that when people become more accustomed to using HTs, ravens with hunter seeker missiles, ghosts with snipe, and neural parasite on infestors, we will see more BW-esque battles.
#TeamBuLba
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 151
ProTech73
Livibee 51
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 636
Noble 81
zelot 69
Dewaltoss 66
ToSsGirL 60
sSak 54
Bale 33
Purpose 14
Sharp 10
Dota 2
The International25185
League of Legends
JimRising 655
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv1405
Stewie2K584
Other Games
summit1g9401
XaKoH 230
hungrybox206
ceh9180
C9.Mang0175
NeuroSwarm41
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1131
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 65
Other Games
BasetradeTV48
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1554
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
2h 21m
Classic vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Maru
Online Event
4h 21m
Kung Fu Cup
4h 21m
BSL Team Wars
11h 21m
RSL Revival
1d 2h
Maestros of the Game
1d 6h
ShoWTimE vs Classic
Clem vs herO
Serral vs Bunny
Reynor vs Zoun
Cosmonarchy
1d 8h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 10h
RSL Revival
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Sharp
Jaedong vs Mini
Wardi Open
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
LiuLi Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Copa Latinoamericana 4
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
EC S1
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.