• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 18:01
CET 00:01
KST 08:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners10Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!41$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship6[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon! Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close"
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Learning my new SC2 hotkey…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1098 users

Thoughts From Day9 Daily #299

Blogs > FODDER~
Post a Reply
FODDER~
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States109 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 00:36:11
May 06 2011 00:31 GMT
#1
Note: This is part of a series of blogs I may start (depending if you guys would like to see more of it) in celebration of Day9's 300 episode milestone as I have always found his show both entertaining and educational. In such a blog series I would kind of expand Day9's lectures, do some brainstorming and theorycrafting and give you guys some food for thought and deeper analysis of his episodes. This potential blog series I may start (again depending if it's something you guys would enjoy) would be done assuming you watched the episode in question. The ordering of what episodes and which ones the blog series will deal with is not decided. I may go in chronological order and do near every episode. I may just jump around randomly from previous and future episodes. Who knows? Again this is assuming you guys enjoy this potential blog series and would like to see more of it. Anyways without further ado...

What Day9 Touched Upon

In the recent Day9 Daily #299 Day9 highlighted two very nice concepts. Redundancy and how to avoid it, and purpose and how to extend it from every unit and building. For now I'd like to focus on the concept of purpose he brought up. For instance, not just doing 'X' because of 'X'. Doing 'X' because 'X' can serve the purpose of doing 'X', 'Y', 'Z', and potentially more. For instance building a supply depot not just for the sake of supply but for the sake of perpetual vision of your main base, to complete a wall-off, and so on. And it got me thinking.

A New Perspective

I'm going to take what Day9 said a few steps further. Think of individualism for your units as their lifespan. I want you to literally think of it as their life support. As life itself. When they lose their individualism they no longer exist as an individual unit. Now think of their lifespan as their purpose. Think of purpose directly correlating to the life force of a unit. Now consider that when your unit's purpose expires, so does their individual existence. Now you may be confused as just because your first marine's purpose of denying the initial harvester scout (for a simple example) is over that it does not suddenly explode like a changeling after it has served it's purpose. No... it is quite different. When a unit's individualism dies it's individual existence is what comes to an end (not it's overall existence which may end from battle). The unit is still on the map but as more units are made all the units begin to assimilate into a blob. Where unit's lose their individual value and only become valuable while as one. The unit's no longer have their own purpose rather than to conform to the surrounding units that they make up the blob with. It becomes anonymous and forgotten. It's value diminishes to virtually nothing on it's own as the blob grows of anonymous amasses.

Consider This

I want you to think for a second and consider that this may not be the best way to go about things if this is how you play.

Why?

Reasons For Consideration With Past Evidence

Well think back to BW when there was a lot of small dynamic confrontations going on. Every unit was valuable and key. Both on an individual scale and in the big picture.

In SC2 it seems losing units in blob trade-offs is rather common. Day9 himself has somewhat advocated the idea in the past that the blob syndrome is a sign we have a lot to learn about respecting our units and how valuable they can really be on their own. The big picture is still there, but not the empowering relevance of minuteness and small-scale confrontations.

The Pros

Some side bonuses from forcing more dynamic small-scale confrontations is it allows for the following:

• The relevance of micro increases. If you are confident in your micro this definitely tips the scales in your favour in a fight where micro would have meant less.

• Allows for more multi-pronged attacks to not only be more viable but also more likely to be successful as your opponent would be forced to spread their army thinner than they may be used to and can be very intensive on their APM. Again, where APM may not have been as big of a factor before you can once again chalk up another advantage if you are confident in your speed and efficiency and reap more of a benefit from it.

• Allows expansions to be more easily secured. A commonly advocated time to expand is behind aggression. With constant multi-pronged aggression (or at least map presence) that means you can really expand a lot more often than you would normally be able to get away with.

• Prevents deathballs from occurring. If you are constantly all over the map, their army is never truly one and thus a deathball is a phenomenon that simply can not occur.

• Prevents players from ever getting too comfortable. Especially Zerg opponents.

• Can often lead to outright contains and overreactions stemming from paranoia.

• Pretty much eliminates the possibility of you getting harassed.

• Can allow for constant army trades if you desire this (which is especially good for Zerg players).

The Cons

Of course with anything there are risks:

• Playing to such a dynamic and disperse style can lead to a possibility of losing to an all-in counter-attack (usually derived from an opponent who has lost their cool and is frustrated from the multi-pronged aggression and thus wants to end the game immediately out of spite) if you do not properly regroup in time to defend. Of course you can always force a base race as well in this scenario if it comes to that.

• If you are not confident in your speed and efficiency and your opponent is, a lot of the advantages that would come from playing this type of style could get lost in translation and actually come back to aiding your opponent more than yourself. Beware of advantages as very few ever have a name tag on them.

• The way you arrange the small confrontations and what units you decide to do so with is absolutely imperative because losing each and every one of these encounters badly leads to a complete and utter loss of any map control or presence. Thus, eliminating many if not most of the advantages to playing this style.

Final Thoughts

I have really been seeing a lot of top players playing to this style. A game of ThorZaIN against MC on Tal'Darim Altar for the TSL3 really did begin to show signs that the top scene is gearing their play to more multi-pronged style. And I really think that it is a style worth delving into and considering rather than being guilty of the 'blob syndrome' as Day9 would put it. If we're lucky (due to the nature of the next Funday Monday) we may even see some interesting examples of this style submitted to Day9. Anyways that is all for now guys. Take care, happy gaming, and as for me back to the practice partner search! Later.

*****
I am a Diamond league Protoss player in need of any form of help that can be given. If you believe you can help please contact me. I really want to improve more than anything and just need a form of guidance and small push in the truely right direction.
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
May 06 2011 00:41 GMT
#2
The existentialist paragraph (A New Perspective) was pretty uh... creepy. But anyways, this isn't a new style. Splitting your army, having separate armies, flanking, etc. are all basic tactics.

I feel really confused after reading your blog. :\ Since you seem really excited about this kind of play though, I recommend you watch some of qxc's games. He utilizes ghosts and reapers in minimal numbers and in many different ways.
#TeamBuLba
FODDER~
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States109 Posts
May 06 2011 00:51 GMT
#3
garlicface:

The existentialist paragraph (A New Perspective) was pretty uh... creepy. But anyways, this isn't a new style. Splitting your army, having separate armies, flanking, etc. are all basic tactics.

I feel really confused after reading your blog. :\ Since you seem really excited about this kind of play though, I recommend you watch some of qxc's games. He utilizes ghosts and reapers in minimal numbers and in many different ways.


Yeah, a lot of top players have been starting to play this way for a while a now. But what bugs me is not everyone which is a shame. So I just wanted to lay out the style and give the pros and cons to it for anyone considering it. I really do, as well as many others includeing Day9 that this style is a lot more proficient and the way to go for more interesting, fun, and efficient games.
Overall I feel everyone should respect the individual power of every single unit in the game. And unfortunately a lot of players still fall into that 'blob syndrome'.
I am a Diamond league Protoss player in need of any form of help that can be given. If you believe you can help please contact me. I really want to improve more than anything and just need a form of guidance and small push in the truely right direction.
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
May 06 2011 01:11 GMT
#4
I forget where I heard it exactly (maybe State of the Game), but people were talking about how SC2 units stack (clump together tightly) far more than BW units. When it comes to using ranged units like marines (with the exception vs banelings) and stalkers (with the exception of blink micro), there is less micro involved. You just couldn't fit as many BW units into a cluster - control group limits also play a role here - so each unit that did fit was significantly more important. There definitely was an emphasis on making the most out of what little you had.

That said though, the mentality still holds true in SC2. Pros try not to overproduce corrupters vs collossi, banelings for a bust, etc. I think the emphasis is that in SC2, your army is as strong as the number of units you have attacking at a time.

BW also had a ton of AoE spells and attacks, such as irradiate, spider mines, and lurkers. If you were cautious of any of those spells or attacks being used against you, your focus would be on individual unit micro. Splitting marines to dodge spines. Pulling one dragoon when the spider mine was locked onto it, or pulling that one irradiated muta out of your clump.

I think that when people become more accustomed to using HTs, ravens with hunter seeker missiles, ghosts with snipe, and neural parasite on infestors, we will see more BW-esque battles.
#TeamBuLba
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
23:00
PiGosaur Cup #55
CranKy Ducklings11
Liquipedia
BSL 21
20:00
ProLeague - RO32 Group A
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs OyAji
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
ZZZero.O225
LiquipediaDiscussion
LAN Event
18:00
Stellar Fest: Day 2
Clem vs TriGGeR
ComeBackTV 821
UrsaTVCanada584
IndyStarCraft 256
EnkiAlexander 55
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
White-Ra 273
IndyStarCraft 256
Nathanias 127
Nina 82
elazer 46
Railgan 42
ForJumy 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 1286
ZZZero.O 225
Dota 2
LuMiX1
League of Legends
KnowMe77
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor214
Other Games
Grubby4801
Beastyqt692
Mlord471
Liquid`Hasu226
Pyrionflax222
FrodaN205
Fuzer 175
ToD132
ArmadaUGS81
goatrope63
Maynarde51
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1089
Counter-Strike
PGL126
Other Games
angryscii15
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 38
• Hupsaiya 34
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• 3DClanTV 24
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21021
• Ler110
League of Legends
• imaqtpie3078
Other Games
• Scarra601
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10h 59m
WardiTV Korean Royale
12h 59m
LAN Event
15h 59m
IPSL
18h 59m
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
20h 59m
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
1d 9h
Wardi Open
1d 12h
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
[ Show More ]
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
BSL 21
6 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.