• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:36
CEST 12:36
KST 19:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles0[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China7Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL63Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024! Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 693 users

Defence Maps Damage Optimization

Blogs > Hidden_MotiveS
Post a Reply
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
May 04 2011 04:01 GMT
#1
Have you ever played a starcraft defence map and wondered whether you should build more units or upgrade your units attack in order to increase their damage output?

[image loading]
How do you turn lights off?


Well wonder no further!

The damage output of all of your units can be expressed as a simple formula

number_of_units * (base_damage_of_unit + damage_increase_per_upgrade * number_of_upgrades)

The total cost of all of your units can be expressed as the sum of the costs of all the units you build, and the sum of the costs of all of your upgrades.

total cost = cost_of_all_units + cost_of_all_upgrades

The cost of all of your units is just the cost of one unit times the number of units you build

cost_of_all_units = cost_of_one_unit * number_of_units

The cost of the upgrades can vary. Assuming that the costs of the upgrades increases arithmetically, (1,2,3,4,5 minerals for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th upgrades) then the total cost of all your upgrades can be expressed as the (sum of the first term plus the sum of the second term) times half the number of terms.

aside**
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Gauss was the original G-unit. Look at him.
I bet he wasn't afraid to divide by zero.


Professors often talk about how kid Gauss figured out this mathematical phenomena.
See teachers in the 1800's were really really lazy. They were so lazy in fact, that Gauss's elementary school teacher, told his students to add up the first 100 whole numbers, while he went to take a nap. As the others students scurrilously started adding numbers on their papers, Gauss figured out that, adding 1 and 100, produced the same result as adding 2 and 99. He just added the sum of 1 and 100 and multiplied by the number of pairs of number he would have.

He figured out the sum of the first 100 whole numbers (5050), woke his teacher up from his nap, and went on to develop lots of ways to torment engineering students taking electromagnetics courses.

[image loading]
Though best known as the inventor of the gauss rifle, gauss also did a lot of math in his spare time.



cost_of_all_upgrades = number_of_upgrades / 2 * (sum_of_first_and_last_upgrade)

and sum_of_first_and_last_upgrade can be defined as number_of_upgrades + 1 (the first upgrade costs one mineral, and the last one costs the same amount as the number of upgrades you've gotten).

Knowing all this, you can optimize damage with respect to cost by putting all the equations together.

{damage}/{cost} = { number_of_units * (base_damage_of_unit + damage_increase_per_upgrade * number_of_upgrades) } / { [ cost_of_one_unit * number_of_units ] + [ number_of_upgrades / 2 * (number_of_upgrades + 1) ] }

Now you break out your handy excel spreadsheet!... What you don't have a handy excel spreadsheet? Fine... you can borrow mine.
It tells you when you should upgrade and when you should build. If only you'll fill in some numbers.

I understand that damage calculations have lots of confounding variables, such as splash damage, range, or the speed of projectiles. I made this blog mainly to get a 1000th post. Theorycrafting can be useful for things like saturation calculations but that's a bit more complicated.

I personally don't play defence maps. There are too many newbies who make you lose. The only defence maps I play are SAT control, and ones where I can play individually.

ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 04 2011 04:26 GMT
#2
1000

Man that lights on lights off thing was great. Whoever thought of using that to exploit BW was a friggin genius and made me waste so much of my time in high school
Jaedong :3
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 04:48:40
May 04 2011 04:48 GMT
#3
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
LaSt)ChAnCe
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States2179 Posts
May 04 2011 05:00 GMT
#4
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(


in sc2 we don't need glitches to cannon stack
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 04 2011 05:02 GMT
#5
On May 04 2011 14:00 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(


in sc2 we don't need glitches to cannon stack


Game was SOOO much more fun with the lights thing.
1) Clueless people were clueless. People confused is always fun.
2) When lights are off, you can't attack so it requires speed and precise building execution.

definitely more fun. tower defense games already require so little apm and with no glitches its less fun lol
Jaedong :3
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
May 04 2011 06:31 GMT
#6
On May 04 2011 13:26 ReketSomething wrote:
1000

Man that lights on lights off thing was great. Whoever thought of using that to exploit BW was a friggin genius and made me waste so much of my time in high school


Evil genius maybe. I saw it in melee games before ums.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
May 04 2011 07:03 GMT
#7
SAT control was fun.
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
kOre
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada3642 Posts
May 04 2011 07:07 GMT
#8
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(

SC2 people + some BW people will never know about Hydra stacking ... lol 1 Hydra somehow does 1000 damage ... lol
http://www.starcraftmecca.net - Founder
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 07:45:05
May 04 2011 07:44 GMT
#9
On May 04 2011 16:07 kOre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(

SC2 people + some BW people will never know about Hydra stacking ... lol 1 Hydra somehow does 1000 damage ... lol


Man, SC2 people will never know how to morph lurkers from zerglings, or turn zerglings into mutas
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
LaSt)ChAnCe
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States2179 Posts
May 04 2011 08:09 GMT
#10
or how to make drones fly
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
May 04 2011 08:43 GMT
#11
With Galaxy Editor, anything is possible.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11806 Posts
May 04 2011 09:38 GMT
#12
Building stacking is possible in sc2, seen it in several UMS maps. I think zillion zerglings make use of it.
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
May 04 2011 10:03 GMT
#13
On May 04 2011 17:43 eviltomahawk wrote:
With Galaxy Editor, anything is possible.


and you could do jack all with staredit, which made lights out so awesome
starleague forever
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 11:50:45
May 04 2011 11:49 GMT
#14
Now that i remember there was a weird cannon stack hack in melee too. I think it got patched around 2006

One guy used it against me in a 2v2 Lt noob back then. I was completly clueless, i didn't even know how to cannon stack in UMS haha. Too bad that guy sucked and my ally killed him lol.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 24m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Creator 98
Rex 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 629
Soma 494
Pusan 472
Jaedong 363
Stork 330
Sharp 176
Larva 171
Soulkey 144
ZerO 135
sorry 128
[ Show more ]
sSak 82
Shine 56
yabsab 54
Snow 47
JulyZerg 33
Aegong 31
Mind 27
Free 24
zelot 24
Movie 9
IntoTheRainbow 9
ivOry 2
Dota 2
XcaliburYe606
XaKoH 493
syndereN183
League of Legends
singsing278
rGuardiaN47
Counter-Strike
x6flipin397
allub135
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King250
Other Games
Pyrionflax324
crisheroes278
SortOf156
ZerO(Twitch)21
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick29158
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2232
League of Legends
• HappyZerGling98
Other Games
• WagamamaTV169
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
24m
Replay Cast
13h 24m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
23h 24m
WardiTV European League
1d 5h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
1d 13h
The PondCast
1d 23h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.