• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:36
CET 06:36
KST 14:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9
Community News
2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!9BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams9Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest3Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou23
StarCraft 2
General
Could we add "Avoid Matchup" Feature for rankgame RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" The New Patch Killed Mech! Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four
Tourneys
Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET [ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival BSL Season 21
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION ASL final tickets help
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
LMAO (controversial!!)
Peanutsc
The Benefits Of Limited Comm…
TrAiDoS
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1258 users

Ladder Failage

Blogs > Froadac
Post a Reply
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
April 29 2011 15:00 GMT
#1
Ladder Slump
Hey guys, this is a pretty good thing to be frustrated about in the scheme of things.
I cannot for the life of me get into masters. I have been #2 and #1 diamond moer than a couple times, but every time I reach that peak I get busted back down to like thirtieth in my division, like today. I went like 2-5, and lost to things that didn’t make sense. I expanded before somebody, got 4 rax, and then got stomped by like 4 gate robo. How the heck does that work… A lot of it must just be poor execution, and me not being used to the builds I’m doing, but my macro keeps on slipping, and I get absolutely ripped apart by drops whereas mine don’t’ do any damage. I’m not sure entirely why I keep on fluctuating like this. I go through periods in which I go like 6-0 and then go 0-6. At first I thought it might be my builds were generally weak against what I was playing against.
But today I figured out that definitely wasn’t it. Painuser on the next 12 weeks recommended one rax gasless FE vs terran, and one rax marauder FE vs Protoss. He also recommended a hellion expand vs zerg (well, I already do that.)
In one sense, when he did the build it worked out, and I’m sure he could hold against what I’m going against. But then again, most of the stuff I’m going against is all in. Basically standard protoss is late expo into 6 gate + robo. Just ridiculous stuff like that. I should be able to stop it but can’t.

It also seems like I actually have less stuff pretty far into the game in comparison to my earlier less greedy builds, so I wonder if there is a macro problem at play.

It just bugs me that I managed D+ on iccup and I can’t seem to break Diamond in SC2. My macro is so bad as are my mechanics atm…

I’m not sure if I should do a more aggressive build to stand up to the all in stuff, or if I should try to continue my old builds (2 rax Fe vs toss, 1-1-1 tank marine medivac vs Terran, and reactor hellion  banshee cloak vs zerg. Or stick with the new painuser stuff?
I’m not sure what I”ve said in this long rant exactly, but I really have hit a wall on ladder. Do you guys have any advice. Would anybody be willing to look any of my replays and tell me what I’m doing wrong. I’ve gone over it, and there are underlying macro issues, but how should I address it? :/

I don’t know, I’m just generally discouraged about SC2 (haha, good thing to be discouraged about) right now, primarily due to the fact I keep on getting to #3, falling to 30, etc etc. Cyclically. Win hard, lose hard.

Also, my marine tank micro is still bad, but it is improving :DD

Here are some replays, if anybody wants to look at any of them and say what I'm doing entirely wrong lol.

http://drop.sc/packs/94

*
dere
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States153 Posts
April 29 2011 16:10 GMT
#2
I think you mentioned this earlier in my blog but I believe we're in the same boat. However after writing my blog post and kinda just taking a day off I came back and really watched some of my replays.

I really tore them apart day[9] style, took a few pages of notes and it really made me realize that my builds were fine but my execution was sloppy. However doing that analysis somehow gave me some confidence because now I knew what I needed to do to improve.

I'm going to download your replay pack. Maybe you'd like to get on a skype call or ventrilo and walk through each others replays? Weekends are tough for me but maybe Sunday night?
Tennessee Regional Rankings: http://sc2ranks.com/c/8473/tennessee-region-division/
sharky246
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1197 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-29 16:28:48
April 29 2011 16:21 GMT
#3
I am having trouble with tank/viking play (mindnumbing as hell) and thought i would look at ur tvt replays, the one wit andromeda and forge. I don't know if you were like drunk or something while you were playing but you and your opponent made some real big mistakes, to the extent where it suprises me that your diamond, unless this is the normal level of play in diamond for ur server.

For example, the one against forge, he totally outmacroed you but before he did dat, you were even terms in army size. Except u made vikings and he didnt (he never made vikings dat game, even though he went tanks). But you didnt even use those vikings, they just killed 1 medivac. If you had used dat 1st viking when it was in front of his expo, u coulda taken out his expo. Instead, i see u use 2 scans to get vision of his tanks. His mistake was not making any vikings but he got lucky.

And the one against andromeda, you started siege mode upgrade so late, which cost you the game.

But your marine tank micro isnt bad, you shouldn't even worry about it + Show Spoiler +
because there is no micro for marine tank lol
On January 03 2011 13:14 IdrA wrote: being high on the ladder doesnt get you any closer to your goal. Avoiding practice to protect your rating is absurd. If you want to be good go play 40 games a day and stop thinking about becoming a pro.
imPERSONater
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1324 Posts
April 29 2011 17:12 GMT
#4
lol, this is me but I play zerg. I get up to and beat the top diamonds, then I face masters for a solid stretch and drop a lot of games in a row. It's horrible because we could probably play in the lower masters at the same skill level, but getting over the MMR threshold is difficult :D Ah well, school's over so I'll be able to throw some time at it and hopefully get over the hump.

Good luck to you!
Fan of: IdrA, Sen, Stephano, Snute, Axlav, Hero
mikyaJ
Profile Joined April 2011
1834 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-29 17:26:31
April 29 2011 17:23 GMT
#5
Wait so D+ iccup -> Master's in SC2 automatically? Not sure about that...

also to frodoguy: There's a hell of a lot more micro involved in Marine Tank than most Zerg armies and all Toss armies.
MKP||TSL
sharky246
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1197 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-29 17:40:34
April 29 2011 17:40 GMT
#6
On April 30 2011 02:23 mikyaJ wrote:
Wait so D+ iccup -> Master's in SC2 automatically? Not sure about that...

also to frodoguy: There's a hell of a lot more micro involved in Marine Tank than most Zerg armies and all Toss armies.


If you consider stimming and seiging as micro than yes, but something like that seems hardly worth worrying about, i mean, u just press 1t2e or whatever you set it up to be.
On January 03 2011 13:14 IdrA wrote: being high on the ladder doesnt get you any closer to your goal. Avoiding practice to protect your rating is absurd. If you want to be good go play 40 games a day and stop thinking about becoming a pro.
Trowabarton756
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States870 Posts
April 29 2011 18:28 GMT
#7
On April 30 2011 02:40 frodoguy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2011 02:23 mikyaJ wrote:
Wait so D+ iccup -> Master's in SC2 automatically? Not sure about that...

also to frodoguy: There's a hell of a lot more micro involved in Marine Tank than most Zerg armies and all Toss armies.


If you consider stimming and seiging as micro than yes, but something like that seems hardly worth worrying about, i mean, u just press 1t2e or whatever you set it up to be.


Its not that "stimming" or sieging tanks is hard. Its the pre-positional fight that matters.
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Trowabarton756
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
April 29 2011 18:29 GMT
#8
On April 30 2011 00:00 Froadac wrote:
Here are some replays, if anybody wants to look at any of them and say what I'm doing entirely wrong lol.

http://drop.sc/packs/94


Game 1 Froadac T vs BlanKz P
Backwater Gulch

5:10 The last scv you make for mining purposes in an 11:10 game. You have 19, 6 of which are on gas and 3 attack with your army. This is ridiculous.
5:30 You scan 1 gate robo and proceed to go 1 base Siege Tanks. Why? Immortals wreck tanks, and that's all he's going to have. If your plan is to go marine tank no matter what you see, don't waste a scan. If you do scan, at least respond appropriately.
6:40 The last MULE you use. Your CC hits 130 energy before you call down supplies and scan. MULEs are awesome; you used 2 total.
6:40 All you've seen is 1 gate robo, yet you move 11 marines and a tank across the map blindly. You get lucky that your opponent was expanding because if he had gone 1 gate robo into 3 gate robo, your army dies and you instantly lose. Send an scv, hellion, or even a reaper to scout him out before putting your army in a dangerous situation. You also send 3 scvs with the army, which is good, except you don't put them on auto-repair and you lump them into a control group with your marines. First, you lose a few tanks that could have been repaired. Second, the key to successfully using marine tank against Protoss is making bunkers. You mess up both of these.

Game 2 beontea Z vs Froadac T
Metalopolis

You actually won this game, but shouldn't be too proud of it. You made the same mistake as game 1 by blindly moving out with tanks and marines, except this time it's even worse because you're cross spots and haven't scouted anything but an expo hatch. You've got to stop doing that. You only won because your opponent banked 1500 minerals in a 10 min game and had worse micro than you.

Game 4 Froadac T vs Forge T
Metalopolis

3:00 Scout his geysers. It's VERY useful information in TvT.
6:00 Don't blindly transfer scvs to your natural without knowing what's down there first. This applies to all matchups.
10:00 Blindly running into tanks with your army. I'm seeing a pattern in your games. Fly your viking into his natural to check things out first. You then burn 2 scans for vision when you have air superiority; this is obviously a waste. The point of vikings in tank viking is to spot so you don't have to waste scans like this. Your vikings then just sit there doing nothing while he drops the shit out of your base twice. Rest of the game he simply outclasses you.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-29 22:38:02
April 29 2011 22:36 GMT
#9
Game 2 was bullshit. This is exactly what happened.

Alright, so I'll reactor expand

mom: GO TO BED

me: All in lol.

Shouldn't have uploaded those replays though. They were all me screwing around with marine tank for the first time. (except tvt, where I got owned)
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL 21
01:00
Open Quali #2
ZZZero.O168
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 129
SortOf 116
StarCraft: Brood War
PianO 696
ZZZero.O 168
Movie 65
Icarus 9
soO 3
Dota 2
XaKoH 667
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 835
Reynor27
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv420
PGG 134
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox439
Other Games
summit1g13801
WinterStarcraft408
Tasteless98
NeuroSwarm54
Models4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick830
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH194
• practicex 25
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo952
• Stunt392
• HappyZerGling97
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 24m
BASILISK vs Shopify Rebellion
Team Liquid vs Team Falcon
OSC
6h 24m
CrankTV Team League
7h 24m
Shopify Rebellion vs Team Liquid
BASILISK vs Team Falcon
Replay Cast
17h 24m
The PondCast
1d 3h
CrankTV Team League
1d 7h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
MaNa vs Gerald
Rogue vs GuMiho
ByuN vs Spirit
herO vs Solar
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Team A[vengers]
3 days
Dewalt vs Shine
UltrA vs ZeLoT
BSL 21
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
BSL Team A[vengers]
4 days
Cross vs Motive
Sziky vs HiyA
BSL 21
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
WardiTV TLMC #15
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.