EPTIf I lived and worked/took classes in an urban environment, I would definitely forgo cars in favor of bikes/bus/rail.
Against Cars - Page 2
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TOloseGT
United States1145 Posts
If I lived and worked/took classes in an urban environment, I would definitely forgo cars in favor of bikes/bus/rail. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51382 Posts
Indian roads man...Indian roads and traffic. | ||
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
Or, you could have yourself a real adventure. The trip you mention - by bike, but not in a day. Maybe 2 or 3 days, and spend the night under the stars, by a fire you built yourself, and food you brought along for the journey. Perhaps with your girlfriend or some pals, sharing the fun. Bicycle touring, while something I've not explored (but want to, very badly), is something many people regard as a great vacation. Many people speak of the convenience and speed of cars like it's their best feature. I think the challenge and relative slowness of bicycles is a feature, and wouldn't trade the experience for a car. | ||
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
If you want to free yourself of the car lifestyle, one thing that should surely be given consideration is choice of home. Another thing is choice of work/school. In my case, it happened that where I lived when I had the car was also convenient for living without a car, so no major shift needed to happen there. For others, some adjustments may need to be made. Whether you want to or not, it is a choice you can likely make. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
That said, given the option I do agree that biking is preferable to driving when possible. However, living in Colorado trying to bike in the winter is futile with all the snow and ice. Not to mention I despise cold temperatures and would 10x rather be in my heated care than in 40 degree weather on a bike. Biking in the summer however is great, and I do use this fairly often when I can, of course the big complication is sweating. If I bike my normal 20-25 or so mph I can get places pretty fast, often beating cars. But if I slow down to whatever pace it takes to not sweat at all its going to consume alot of time. More than anything though I don't bike alot because there isn't much in the way of sidewalks or even bike lanes, and idiot drivers on a bike are not something I am willing to put up with, or risk. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10949 Posts
Going to Work by Public Transport: 2 x 40 Minutes. Going to Work by Bike: 2 x 60 Minutes. Shopping during my breaks and taking it home? Car: Yes. Public Transport: Some. Bike: A little. Going out to drink somewhere: ~10-30 Minutes by Car. Not allowed to drive drunk (Taxi solves) ~20-Not possible by Bike. Not allowed to drive drunk (and you cant sleep in it). Public Transport.. Not really possible. (Tells you when you have to go home). Having ONLY a Bike is fine and dandy when you live in a city... As soon as you move even a little away from a City it begins to really hurt you if your bound to Public Transport and a Bike.... | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
People say "it's impossible to live X way and not have a car!" People want to have their cake and eat it too. I'm not saying you are the devil if you own and drive a car - my fiance owns and drives a car (though she is planning her next steps in life so as to be able to be car-free). But I will say it's a choice you make... just as you structure your life around a car, you can structure your life around not having a car. This can mean choosing a new living space, a new job, different school... Those are, of course, "big changes." OK, but most people, at least in America, will change careers fairly often, move fairly often, and very few stay in school forever. So even if you were unwilling to actively change your lifestyle for the sake of living car-free, there will come "junctions" in your life - opportunities - to adjust how you do things in such a way that if you really care about being able to live without a car, you can do so, and probably easily. If you continue to build your life around the car, the it may be hard to simply cut the car out of your life at any given time. But it does no good to say "But Inky! I can't just give up my car - it will mean it takes 2 hours to get to work, then 2 hours to get to school, then 2 hours to get to my girlfriend's house, then 3 hours to get back home!" Next time you move, you can choose a better location. Next time you get a job, you can choose a better location. You can move closer to your friends. Am I telling you to do this? No - that's your decision. But it IS a decision you can make, if not right this moment, then sometime.... To act like you are utterly dependent on the automobile is dishonest. Maybe you depend on the car to live a certain way, but you likely don't have to live in that particular way (and may find your overall appreciation for life changes for the better if you change up how you live - as I found when I embraced cycling). Just like my fiance - she lives 30 miles from the city, but works in the city. She has a car and drives. But she has gone car-lite (commuting by bike and train most days), and plans to make a move to the city and then go car-free. It's a goal for her, and she will ultimately structure her life so that she can attain that goal. | ||
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Joementum
787 Posts
On April 27 2011 14:22 TOloseGT wrote: I commute to school, and between a 40 minute car ride and a 2 hour journey using public transportation, I'll take the car everytime. Same here. It's either a 30 minute car ride of a 2 hour public transport journey involving multiple buses that will only get me about 1 mile away from my school. Then it's that 1 mile walk to the school. Terribly inefficient. Cycling would be about 1.5 hours if I wanted to disregard safety and go onto a highway, which I'm pretty sure is illegal for cyclists. My business also revolves around my car, so giving it up isn't an option. On April 27 2011 15:12 nA.Inky wrote: Next time you move, you can choose a better location. Next time you get a job, you can choose a better location. You can move closer to your friends. Am I telling you to do this? No - that's your decision. But it IS a decision you can make, if not right this moment, then sometime.... To act like you are utterly dependent on the automobile is dishonest. Maybe you depend on the car to live a certain way, but you likely don't have to live in that particular way (and may find your overall appreciation for life changes for the better if you change up how you live - as I found when I embraced cycling). This part of your discussion just really stood out to me. In an ideal world, that works. In this world, it does not. You cannot simply choose what location you want to go into and buy/rent a place there. Cost of said place has to seriously be considered. Around here, living anywhere near the city, which coincidentally has the best public transport system, is terribly expensive. House prices would jump from $300k-$400k to $700k+. Rent would double, if not triple, from $1k to $2k-$3k. Friends also move. They don't stay put in one place, and again, you have to factor in cost. I would love to move into the county where some of my close friends live, but the problem is that houses in that area are way to expensive. Saying you CAN make those decisions is bullshit. One thing I think you're also ignoring is the fact that highways are the main method of going from point A to point B in today's society. Cycling on those highways is fucking stupid*. A 3 thousand lb car going 55 MPH at the minimum is going to wreck you if it hits you. If you want, you can plan your cycling to use back roads that aren't busy, but that generally makes your trip way too long. I've tried it with going to school. A 30 minute trip on the high way (about 1.5 on a bike) would take about 1 hour using back roads (about 3 hours on a bike). That's just inefficient. *If you do this, then I seriously worry for you. I've seen the after math of cyclists going on highways or roads that have a speed limit greater than 30. It's not pretty and more often than not results in death or some sort of paralysis. | ||
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I'm not telling you what his weirdest entry/comment is, you'll have to find it for yourself I use my car all the time, and I find it very liberating thank you. | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
On April 27 2011 15:12 nA.Inky wrote: Whether you bike or not, I guarantee it is possible for everyone on Earth to be car free. How do I know? Easy - that's how it was for most of human history, and how it is for many people to this day. it's possible for everyone to live without electricity and internet too you know. you could have written a letter with ink harvested from an octopus and written from the feather of a majestic eagle then biked over to nazgul's house and told him to post for you. on the way you could've enjoyed all the scenery at a leisurely pace uninhibited by the perversions of technological advancement but you didn't. + Show Spoiler + also get off my road  | ||
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vek
Australia936 Posts
On April 27 2011 14:45 Velr wrote: Going to Work by car: 2 x 20 Minutes. Going to Work by Public Transport: 2 x 40 Minutes. Going to Work by Bike: 2 x 60 Minutes. Shopping during my breaks and taking it home? Car: Yes. Public Transport: Some. Bike: A little. Going out to drink somewhere: ~10-30 Minutes by Car. Not allowed to drive drunk (Taxi solves) ~20-Not possible by Bike. Not allowed to drive drunk (and you cant sleep in it). Public Transport.. Not really possible. (Tells you when you have to go home). Having ONLY a Bike is fine and dandy when you live in a city... As soon as you move even a little away from a City it begins to really hurt you if your bound to Public Transport and a Bike.... It's almost the opposite here. It is much quicker (and much more convenient) to catch the train into Melbourne than it is to drive. Also, this is a huge factor for me: Can I sleep on the train? Yes Can I sleep in the car? Not unless I want to wrap myself around a tree. The thing I love about public transport is you just don't have to stress about traffic or finding a parking spot. It's always there, it's cheaper, it's better for the environment and it's much quicker. That said I respect that some people need cars because of distance and the type of job they have. I also respect that some people love to drive. There are still far too many people on the roads that don't need to be. | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
On April 27 2011 13:02 nA.Inky wrote: Ayeh - there are many trips that I would wager that I could beat you - easily - on my bicycle while you are in your car, for the simple reason that you could easily lose your speed advantage just by looking for parking. Good for you. You must accept though that many others don't have the luxury of close distances. I drive more than 600 miles a week. Even though public transportation is excellent in Germany, I would lose hours on every trip compared to the automobile. I don't have much free time as it is, I am not going to waste that on waiting for delayed trains. And the flexibility and comfort (in that I can take half my household with me on the road) is unmatched. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10949 Posts
On April 27 2011 16:08 vek wrote: It's almost the opposite here. It is much quicker (and much more convenient) to catch the train into Melbourne than it is to drive. Also, this is a huge factor for me: Can I sleep on the train? Yes Can I sleep in the car? Not unless I want to wrap myself around a tree. The thing I love about public transport is you just don't have to stress about traffic or finding a parking spot. It's always there, it's cheaper, it's better for the environment and it's much quicker. That said I respect that some people need cars because of distance and the type of job they have. I also respect that some people love to drive. There are still far too many people on the roads that don't need to be. Sure, in general Public Transport is awesome in Switzerland. But i live in a Village with no train station... So EVERY trip with public transport is at least: Bus (once an hour until like 9 pm -.-) --> Train Station --> probably "bigger Trainstation" --> On Road to destination. It's by no means "far" and you could do all of this by Bike/Public Transport (hell, even by feet :p), but it's WAY more convenient/faster by Car .I will move to the nearest City (well, big village  ) in a few months... I probably won't use my car much from then on because the public transport there is awesome and it's an importan train knot... So there won't be much need to drive to work/party/whatever .Btw: I actually enjoy driving and don't feel stressed while doing it, i don't like public transport and just use them if they are CLEARLY superior (in others words: Faster). | ||
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Cuddle
Sweden1345 Posts
A car is sooo expensive though, it's crazy. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
Public transport here is great as well, there are regular buses and trams that cost about €2 for a return trip and you can go practically anywhere in the city. There are plenty of cycle lanes and bus corridors so most of the time a bus will be faster than a car, even with it stopping at every stop. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32157 Posts
The getting around faster in a bike thing is definitely true in some instances depending where you are. My father does this all the time. But this really only works because were in a city area. Someone in rural america, a bike as the main method of transportation is just a pain in the ass. i was thinking of getting one just for health reasons, because it's a stupid easy way to keep yourself in shape and it's much more fun than running ughhhhhhh. Plus I'm close enough to work that I can do bike there and shoot home real quick if I need my car to go to an appt. hello inky~~ | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
Everyone's still pissed off about the bank bailouts, but then they go out and buy a GM. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28892 Posts
but it's pretty easy to live where I live without a car - almost nobody living near the city centre in a european city truly needs one. to my knowledge, american cities are vastly different though, so mad props to you for taking this step. ;p | ||
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