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Hey Team Liquid. I am 19 years old and I am trying to apply for my first job ever. I got a phone call but I was dumb to not to remember which company called me. The person asked me to go to an interview which I think I blew off, for various schedule conflict issues.
I am in college and my schedule is kinda fucked up.
I wake up at 3 am and sleep at 9pm
from Mondays and Wednesdays I go to school at 9am to and get home at 7 pm.
My sister and I go to the same school and at different hours but only have one car so if either me or her has class early I have to tag along.
And I also have class at 330pm and get home at 7pm, on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
I am off Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays.
Problem is I think a typical part time job asks for 20 hours a week, with my schedule I dont think i can fit those type of requirements.
I also heard that every job in the world requires an interview? if this is true then I will be nervous if i apply for other jobs in the future.
If anyone is in college and has a part time job, can you share your experience with me please?
Also I would leave to hear some tips please.
 
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Why don't you work at your school?
Less hours, and definitely more convenient?
I have a friend who works his front desk at like 12 at night - 6 am.
We play 3s or 2s when he's working.
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What is your motive for getting a job?
It seems like you are trying to fit the job around your schedule, when you should be actually fitting your schedule around your job
If it is important enough for you
I'm not saying blow off school or anything, but you should try to make arrangement
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Um I'm not sure I can work at school.
Since my sister and I share the same car, if I were to leave late what is she supposed to do? sit in the car?
what is 3s or 2s ^^.
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United States24640 Posts
I've gotten jobs before without going on an interview but I think that's rare, especially nowadays. The more interviews you go on the easier it gets. One suggestions is to consider that interviewing is a two way process... they are checking you out but you are checking them out also.
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My motive for getting a job is to have money. so I can save money and spend it on college etc..
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What kind of jobs were those micronesia? I also don't have a resume : (
If I were to make one it would be kinda blank due to no work experience.
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On April 26 2011 08:19 Alkior wrote:
My motive for getting a job is to have money. so I can save money and spend it on college etc..
ok, then how much are you willing to commit/spend your time on it?
I understand you seem to be on a really busy schedule and your sleep patterns are not the best, but see if you what you can do to open up time slots
that is if you really do want to work lol
Work with your manager to find times when you can work 
On April 26 2011 08:18 Alkior wrote:
Um I'm not sure I can work at school.
Since my sister and I share the same car, if I were to leave late what is she supposed to do? sit in the car?
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And finding job near school would be best, if your schedule is like that
Like I said, work out something with your manager so your sister wouldn't be in that situation
It might be hard to find a job if your schedule is really busy and you are not available for various time slots so they might not hire you, so try to free up and see what you can do
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Um do part time job allow for iono 3-4 hours a day? I think I can work that much maybe more.
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Consider getting a part-time job now that's geared towards your eventual career. It'll be great experience, give you insight as to whether or not you really want to be doing this in the future, and it's a resume builder.
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Calgary25977 Posts
You seem to have a lot of preemptive excuses.
1. Make a resume.
2. Realize that, as a part-time employee with no education, you aren't too useful to anyone who hires you. Restaurants, telemarketers, bars, coffee shops, retail stores are the kinds of places you should be applying to.
3. Take your resume to those shops. Ask to speak to a manager. Enthusiastically ask if he is hiring and give him your resume. Be aggressive.
4. Go to the interview. Be honest, confident, and assertive.
That's it.
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United States24640 Posts
On April 26 2011 08:20 Alkior wrote:
What kind of jobs were those micronesia? I also don't have a resume : (
If I were to make one it would be kinda blank due to no work experience.
One was a cashier job at a local supermarket, one was a season (summer) position at a local park working for maintenance, one was a job at my university golf course doing ranger/carts/range, and one was working as an undergraduate teaching assistant for the department of physics at my university.
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Seriously your best jobs are going to be on campus. They will allow you to work minimum hours at a time during school hours or whatever works best for you. 2 hours between some classes, 3 hours in the afternoon while you wait for you sister-- that kinda thing. I am a computer tech for my school and choose my hours. It's very flexible. Campus jobs also tend not to be demanding or require much of anything except responsibility (which seems like maybe you should work on that if you are not showing up to interviews and keeping track of your job applications) and punctuality, so they are good for first jobs.
Honestly the best way to get a job and not be worried about interviews is just experience. Everyone is nervous their first interview and job. Just don't freak yourself out, dress appropriately, look them in the eye, have a friend ask you common interview questions if you need a little practice, and for heaven's sakes, smile! (Speaking as someone who had to interview and hire a summer technology staff, these little things really make a big difference.) If the interviewer likes you as a person, whatever your qualifications, you are much more likely to get hired. Good luck.
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Calgary25977 Posts
On April 26 2011 08:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Consider getting a part-time job now that's geared towards your eventual career. It'll be great experience, give you insight as to whether or not you really want to be doing this in the future, and it's a resume builder.
In my experience, this is difficult but not impossible. Give it a shot but be realistic. As an engineering student, these were the only jobs I could get during the summer:
1. McDonalds
2. Office data entry
3. Night shift at a car manufacturer
Some of my friends found summer engineering work, but it was rare. Landscaping, retail, and office work were commonplace (without parents' help).
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On April 26 2011 08:39 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 08:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Consider getting a part-time job now that's geared towards your eventual career. It'll be great experience, give you insight as to whether or not you really want to be doing this in the future, and it's a resume builder. In my experience, this is difficult but not impossible. Give it a shot but be realistic. As an engineering student, these were the only jobs I could get during the summer: 1. McDonalds 2. Office data entry 3. Night shift at a car manufacturer Some of my friends found summer engineering work, but it was rare. Landscaping, retail, and office work were commonplace (without parents' help).
True, it definitely depends on your major. I was focusing on math education in college, and I was able to find tutoring jobs both on campus and off. Having a car definitely opens up your options as well.
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I am honored to have all you guys post for me and especially chill <3
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On April 26 2011 08:36 Chill wrote:
You seem to have a lot of preemptive excuses.
1. Make a resume.
2. Realize that, as a part-time employee with no education, you aren't too useful to anyone who hires you. Restaurants, telemarketers, bars, coffee shops, retail stores are the kinds of places you should be applying to.
3. Take your resume to those shops. Ask to speak to a manager. Enthusiastically ask if he is hiring and give him your resume. Be aggressive.
4. Go to the interview. Be honest, confident, and assertive.
That's it.
That's just your opinion. Do you know how many people have 'poor educations' or 'no experience' so they never try to get a good job or never try to start a business that they can eventually develop into a huge financial asset? It has been ruining millions of lives throughout human history. Go study Mr. Toyota or Mr. Ford. Your theory doesn't stand up in the real world. To play it safe is one of the worst things anybody can do, since we don't have a license to live forever. If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space. In school you never learned anything about yourself, you never learned a thing about making money, and you have been getting the opinions from people who have no money about how to make money. Have you ever sat down with someone who really understands money and just talked to them before? If someone who has a lot of money criticizes your methods do you get defensive or do you beg them to give you the answer to attaining financial abundance?
Also, @ the op. Of course you have time, everyone has the same amount of time. There are 24 hours a day, no matter who you are. Whether your Bill Gates, Ted Turner, or some 19 year old kid. You can not manage time, you can only manage activities. I would recommend evaluating how you spend your days and focusing on managing activities if you plan on making a real change in your life.
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Why are you looking for a job in the first place? Do you need one? And 20 hours a week shouldn't be a problem if you can negotiate with your employer to work Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays.
How far away do you live from school? Can't you or your sister take the bus? Why do you both have to share one car and one of you have to suffer an inconvenience because you won't use public transportation?
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Calgary25977 Posts
On April 26 2011 08:44 tryummm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 08:36 Chill wrote:
You seem to have a lot of preemptive excuses.
1. Make a resume.
2. Realize that, as a part-time employee with no education, you aren't too useful to anyone who hires you. Restaurants, telemarketers, bars, coffee shops, retail stores are the kinds of places you should be applying to.
3. Take your resume to those shops. Ask to speak to a manager. Enthusiastically ask if he is hiring and give him your resume. Be aggressive.
4. Go to the interview. Be honest, confident, and assertive.
That's it. That's just your opinion. Do you know how many people have 'poor educations' or 'no experience' so they never try to get a good job or never try to start a business that they can eventually develop into a huge financial asset? It has been ruining millions of lives throughout human history. Go study Mr. Toyota or Mr. Ford. Your theory doesn't stand up in the real world. To play it safe is one of the worst things anybody can do, since we don't have a license to live forever. If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space. In school you never learned anything about yourself, you never learned a thing about making money, and you have been getting the opinions from people who have no money about how to make money. Have you ever sat down with someone who really understands money and just talked to them before? If someone who has a lot of money criticizes your methods do you get defensive or do you beg them to give you the answer to attaining financial abundance
What in God's name are you talking about? Jesus Christ...
Edit: Oh, you're that fucking moron with the pyramid scheme. ROFL okay. Life makes sense again.
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just curious..why do you have such sleeping schedule? wouldn't it be more effective to have it from 11 to 5? Is 6 hours actually enough for you?
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I started reading tryums post and thinking, "Great, another one of those people." Yea, you know who I'm talking about. They believe anybody can be a millionaire if they just pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
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I read Tryums and not quite sure what he's saying but after reading your post, what's wrong with thinking that way. I believed any person(average person with average mind) can be a millionaire if they really want to. It's certainly possible.
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On April 26 2011 09:18 ISighZ wrote:
I read Tryums and not quite sure what he's saying but after reading your post, what's wrong with thinking that way. I believed any person(average person with average mind) can be a millionaire if they really want to. It's certainly possible.
Let me know how that works out for you.
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On April 26 2011 09:18 ISighZ wrote:
I read Tryums and not quite sure what he's saying but after reading your post, what's wrong with thinking that way. I believed any person(average person with average mind) can be a millionaire if they really want to. It's certainly possible.
By the virtue of being an average person with an average mind, becoming a millionaire is out of their scope barring extreme luck.
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On April 26 2011 08:39 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 08:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Consider getting a part-time job now that's geared towards your eventual career. It'll be great experience, give you insight as to whether or not you really want to be doing this in the future, and it's a resume builder. In my experience, this is difficult but not impossible. Give it a shot but be realistic. As an engineering student, these were the only jobs I could get during the summer: 1. McDonalds 2. Office data entry 3. Night shift at a car manufacturer Some of my friends found summer engineering work, but it was rare. Landscaping, retail, and office work were commonplace (without parents' help).
Im surprised how often office data entry positions are always mentioned, its probably the easiest out of all others. I have a few friends that work for small companies nearby our uni, you essentially just sit there for a few hours doing almost effortless work.
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wtf jesus... realize that you're very unlikely to find any job that caters to your specific habits, and that hey, you might have to change to work places. i have worked early mornings, over nights, evenings and during the day, requiring me to change my sleep habits for each.
part times jobs i've had during university: library, army, landscaping, overnights at a grocery store, TA (i also worked 4-5 jobs throughout high school).
chill's advice is pretty sound. tryummm is also talking like you want to quit college and start a business which clearly does not seem to have anything to do with your original post.
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If you're near any kind of reasonably-sized city, you can get a job working the parking lots. I went to UCSB, and I had tons of friends who ended up just working odd hours as the guy who takes your money in the parking lot stall. The best part was that you got to read/study/whatever the entire time, since it requires very small spurts of attention.
I personally did my time @ The Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf as a Shift Supervisor. While the position required 20+ hours per week (as a supervisor), we had plenty of people who just pulled in hours when they could. Coffee shops are great because they need people around 4:30AM until 11:00PM. Surely you can find 4 hours in that time slot that works for you. Most places around college campuses are just happy to find people to cover shifts, and they really don't care if you can't give them tons of hours. Food service isn't pretty, but you usually get tips, and the pay is actually pretty decent. Given, a barista makes less than half of what you can pull in a real job your first year out of college (even with a shitty degree like Philosophy), but it's enough to help you pay bills and have a little money to have fun with.
Try googling the company you want to work for. There's a great deal of information on sites like glassdoor about the specific hiring practices, interview questions, and expectations of almost every company out there. At the very least, it will give you an idea of what to expect from a similar company. Craig's List is a great place to look for part-time employment. The bigger job sites are so easy to get lost in, but I actually found my coffee shop job off CL, and my real job came from a site called indeed.com.
You said that you're weary of interviews. All the more reason to just apply to anything that you might be somewhat qualified for. The more interviews you can go to, the more practice you will have when it comes time to sit down in front of somebody (or a panel) to sell yourself as the idea candidate for your dream job. It's just like StarCraft, buddy. Practice and be confident in your abilities, and they will improve over time.
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Don't be afraid of interviews.
To be honest, most jobs you wil be interviewing for you will probably be overqualified for, especially part time.
If you are not qualified enough, its not your problem, just do your best and see what happens. If you don't get it, oh well you weren't qualified anyway. You can never guess what an employer is looking for, you got the interview, so show what you can do, let them decide whether you are qualified.
One failed interview means nothing, even 10 failed interviews mean nothing. Getting a job is a question of quantity. Failing interviews is like losing at SC, as long as you learn something from it, its all good. I mean before I got my job at Microsoft, I probably got told no by atleast 10 other companies.
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On April 26 2011 09:24 TOloseGT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 09:18 ISighZ wrote:
I read Tryums and not quite sure what he's saying but after reading your post, what's wrong with thinking that way. I believed any person(average person with average mind) can be a millionaire if they really want to. It's certainly possible. By the virtue of being an average person with an average mind, becoming a millionaire is out of their scope barring extreme luck.
The point is IF they really want to be a millionaire.
By being average, you would have the capability of understanding the basic foundation of understanding the concept of almost everything if you put your mind to it. Average person can go back to school and reeducate themselves. Take stock for example, I consider myself average. A regular person going to college and have a part time job on the weekend. I decided that I want more than what I already have so I decide to learn about stock investing. I already earn a few thousand dollars then I decide to stop because I'm not aiming to be a millionaire, I just want to live normally. Investing in stock doesn't require rocket science. ANY average person can learn about stock and be able to earn cash from it that is IF they really put forth the time to learn it. Was I lucky? Maybe? Or was it because I put in couple month of time reading newspaper and online articles about stock and looking at stock whenever I wake up and before I go to sleep and learn to predict the stock. There are more than one way to earn millions, I believe if the average person really want to, they can do it. Then if they did it, then they wouldn't be consider average. Everyone starts from average and they can do it.
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On average I get about 6 hours of sleep a day. It takes me an average of a hour to go to school driving of course and then another hour to come back. I think I will look to see what they have on campus.
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not to brag but my sleeping schedule is much more epic. Go home, sleep at 4 pm, wake up at 6 am, go back to sleep at 4 am, sleep to 7 am. Repeat
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On April 26 2011 08:37 RedJustice wrote:
Seriously your best jobs are going to be on campus.
Why does everyone keep saying this? >_< It is hard as hell to get a job on campus. It's ridiculous. It's usually 10k+ students trying to compete for a whole 300-500 jobs. You can try, but the chances of actually getting the job are so low that it really isn't worth it in the end.
@OP - You're not going to get a good job right off the bat. Your best bet is to apply to grocery stores since they usually hire people regularly and don't really require any experience. From there, just keep applying to better jobs every couple of weeks until you get a better job. If your sleep schedule is a problem, then fix it. Your first post just seems like a bunch of "I want a job, but I want it to adjust to MY schedule and not be time consuming."
On April 26 2011 09:18 ISighZ wrote:
I read Tryums and not quite sure what he's saying but after reading your post, what's wrong with thinking that way. I believed any person(average person with average mind) can be a millionaire if they really want to. It's certainly possible.
Let me know how that works out for you. You don't become a millionaire because you believe or because you "really want to." You either get lucky as hell or you go to school for 10+ years and then live frugally until you accumulate enough assets to be considered a "millionaire."
On April 26 2011 09:48 ISighZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 09:24 TOloseGT wrote:On April 26 2011 09:18 ISighZ wrote:
I read Tryums and not quite sure what he's saying but after reading your post, what's wrong with thinking that way. I believed any person(average person with average mind) can be a millionaire if they really want to. It's certainly possible. By the virtue of being an average person with an average mind, becoming a millionaire is out of their scope barring extreme luck. The point is IF they really want to be a millionaire. By being average, you would have the capability of understanding the basic foundation of understanding the concept of almost everything if you put your mind to it. Average person can go back to school and reeducate themselves. Take stock for example, I consider myself average. A regular person going to college and have a part time job on the weekend. I decided that I want more than what I already have so I decide to learn about stock investing. I already earn a few thousand dollars then I decide to stop because I'm not aiming to be a millionaire, I just want to live normally. Investing in stock doesn't require rocket science. ANY average person can learn about stock and be able to earn cash from it that is IF they really put forth the time to learn it. Was I lucky? Maybe? Or was it because I put in couple month of time reading newspaper and online articles about stock and looking at stock whenever I wake up and before I go to sleep and learn to predict the stock. There are more than one way to earn millions, I believe if the average person really want to, they can do it. Then if they did it, then they wouldn't be consider average. Everyone starts from average and they can do it.
Out of curiosity, when did you make this money in the stock market?
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If you can get a job where you work with other people / customers often, and have some sort of responsibility assigned to you (with numbers is definitely a plus), has independent work (or with a "team!"), or, most importantly (field dependent), has an opportunity for "leadership roles", than this is a good first step towards a part time job. Don't be too disappointed with the level of work - as long as you can convince future interviewers that your previous job helped improve yourself and represents some sort of positive qualities and experience, than you have done well
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Go apply to McDonald's. I worked there throughout high school and it was one of the most adjusting jobs in the world. The work was easy, there were a lot of people within the same age group as I was, they scheduled me around the times I could work due to how many employees they had it didn't matter if I couldn't work certain days. Plus if I wanted more hours one week it was easy to take shifts off people and also if i was busy giving shifts away was simple.
Your going to have a hard time finding any decent job with zero work experience. The food industry isn't glamorous but its a job right. Just go put together a resume with your current education level and any extra curricular activities your done, since you have no work experience, and just go apply.
To be honest OP you sound very irresponsible. If your looking for a job the least you could have done was right down the companies name that called you. Also you dont "blow off" interviews due to scheduling conflicts. You let your potential employer know that due to various reasons you are unable to attend and you try and work in a new time that works for the both of you. If nothing works you politely thank them for consideration and their time.
You'll also have to deal with an interview for almost any job. Usually for entry level jobs they're just a simple conversation to make sure you aren't a complete fuck up of a human. They may ask you why you want to work at their establishment and so forth. Just stay calm, be positive and polite. They will probably go through your resume and ask you to explain certain things you've done in the past. Its just a simple conversation really.
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On April 26 2011 08:51 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 08:44 tryummm wrote:On April 26 2011 08:36 Chill wrote:
You seem to have a lot of preemptive excuses.
1. Make a resume.
2. Realize that, as a part-time employee with no education, you aren't too useful to anyone who hires you. Restaurants, telemarketers, bars, coffee shops, retail stores are the kinds of places you should be applying to.
3. Take your resume to those shops. Ask to speak to a manager. Enthusiastically ask if he is hiring and give him your resume. Be aggressive.
4. Go to the interview. Be honest, confident, and assertive.
That's it. That's just your opinion. Do you know how many people have 'poor educations' or 'no experience' so they never try to get a good job or never try to start a business that they can eventually develop into a huge financial asset? It has been ruining millions of lives throughout human history. Go study Mr. Toyota or Mr. Ford. Your theory doesn't stand up in the real world. To play it safe is one of the worst things anybody can do, since we don't have a license to live forever. If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space. In school you never learned anything about yourself, you never learned a thing about making money, and you have been getting the opinions from people who have no money about how to make money. Have you ever sat down with someone who really understands money and just talked to them before? If someone who has a lot of money criticizes your methods do you get defensive or do you beg them to give you the answer to attaining financial abundance What in God's name are you talking about? Jesus Christ... Edit: Oh, you're that fucking moron with the pyramid scheme. ROFL okay. Life makes sense again.
I laughed so hard as my reaction was essentially the same (minus the pyramid scheme info).
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Be aggressive with summer internships or engineering jobs. Ask your academic adviser or career advisor for help. Most of my friends nailed internships with some sort of engineering relevance by being aggressive and talking to the academic/career advisers.
As someone mentioned, Teaching Assistant is nice. If you got a good grade in physics or something talk to the professor/school about being a TA. TA jobs at my school make about 10/hr and have flexible hours (hold office hours 2hrs a week and grade some homeworks). My roomate TAs for two different classes and makes about 600 dollars per class.
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I do data entry for 3-4 hours each weeknight...easy work, very solid pay and fits any schedule. For a bank if interested (encoding checks).
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On April 26 2011 09:03 shinosai wrote:
I started reading tryums post and thinking, "Great, another one of those people." Yea, you know who I'm talking about. They believe anybody can be a millionaire if they just pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
I don't know what you mean by 'pull them up by their bootstraps.' The information I was providing came from Andrew Carnegie who has never sold anything related to 'How to make money.' He at one time was the wealthiest man in the world.
What's so hard to believe that if you actually think about making money, develop a burning desire to make money and you talk to people with an abundance of specialized knowledge in how to make money...that you will go on to make a lot of money? I see it as unfortunate you have never talked about money with someone who has really mastered the art of making money. But I guess its your decision.
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On April 26 2011 08:51 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 08:44 tryummm wrote:On April 26 2011 08:36 Chill wrote:
You seem to have a lot of preemptive excuses.
1. Make a resume.
2. Realize that, as a part-time employee with no education, you aren't too useful to anyone who hires you. Restaurants, telemarketers, bars, coffee shops, retail stores are the kinds of places you should be applying to.
3. Take your resume to those shops. Ask to speak to a manager. Enthusiastically ask if he is hiring and give him your resume. Be aggressive.
4. Go to the interview. Be honest, confident, and assertive.
That's it. That's just your opinion. Do you know how many people have 'poor educations' or 'no experience' so they never try to get a good job or never try to start a business that they can eventually develop into a huge financial asset? It has been ruining millions of lives throughout human history. Go study Mr. Toyota or Mr. Ford. Your theory doesn't stand up in the real world. To play it safe is one of the worst things anybody can do, since we don't have a license to live forever. If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space. In school you never learned anything about yourself, you never learned a thing about making money, and you have been getting the opinions from people who have no money about how to make money. Have you ever sat down with someone who really understands money and just talked to them before? If someone who has a lot of money criticizes your methods do you get defensive or do you beg them to give you the answer to attaining financial abundance What in God's name are you talking about? Jesus Christ... Edit: Oh, you're that fucking moron with the pyramid scheme. ROFL okay. Life makes sense again.
I'm talking about paradigms (A multitude of habits fixated in the subconscious mind) that you have developed throughout your life to believe things about money that are completely untrue. Throughout all of human history, wealthy individuals have had multiple sources of income. In my years of study, I have yet to come across a single wealthy individual with merely one source of income. I highly doubt you have spent any time at all studying wealthy individuals like Andrew Carnegie. Your advocating of getting a safe, secure job and never really going after living the life that one wants to live to others is a selfish attitude. Selfishness is not living as you wish to live, selfishness is conforming others to live as you wish them to live.
Moreover, please explain what you mean by "Oh, you're that fucking moron with the pyramid scheme." I don't appreciate being accused of things without explanation.
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On April 26 2011 09:24 TOloseGT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 09:18 ISighZ wrote:
I read Tryums and not quite sure what he's saying but after reading your post, what's wrong with thinking that way. I believed any person(average person with average mind) can be a millionaire if they really want to. It's certainly possible. By the virtue of being an average person with an average mind, becoming a millionaire is out of their scope barring extreme luck.
The belief in luck is from people who lack confidence. Confidence is developed through increased awareness. Its evident you lack self confidence in the area of money, since you apparently are scared and/or doubtful when you serious consider the idea of making money. The two mental faculties that are strongest at work in a confident individual to a certain area are the imagination and the will, respectively. The imagination is a check of your self image (Or conditioning), or what kind of person you visualize yourself to be. The will is used when you push back ideas of fear or doubt as you overcome your subconscious conditioning. People are confident only because they have an inner knowing of something. You lack inner certainty of yourself being able to make money, so the only logical explanation you can come up with of why people have a lot of money is because they are lucky. However, through studying financially independent individuals you will quickly find that this isn't true.
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EPT
