|
On April 19 2011 21:33 Velr wrote:
I think that attitude came up since nowadays it's not allowed in a ton of places to not smoke. So when your actually at a place where it's allowed and someone still wants to send you away (after around 10 fake coughs with an evil stare) you don't really feel obligated to be "nice".
Btw: I don't remember EVER being asked nicely to put out a cigarette. But fake coughs seem to be THE THING to do, i wonder if that ever has worked on anyone ever.
This is the case with me. I won't walk away for those little passive aggressive pricks that sit there glaring and coughing. I already walked outside whatever establishment, 10-15 feet from the door, and got out of the walkway, as a combination of common courtesy elements.
If, at this point, someone still has a valid reason to ask me to move, I will. But odds are, I'm already in the most reasonable spot possible without crossing a major road on foot. Anyone asking me to move is actually just a prick at this point unless they work at the establishment I'm at and are asking me to go to a designated area (at which point I will.)
Mind you, all those steps are pure courtesy, unrelated to my cigarette. I go outside because of indoor smoking bans, get away from the doorway to not block traffic in/out, and move off the walkway and away from other people to be fully out of the way. I've already gone the extra mile. Odds are, I even stood downwind of people, because it IS my cigarette, and my lungs.
On the rare occasions I've heard "Excuse me sir, the smoking area is over there.", or something similar, I've moved. I've NEVER had someone just standing/sitting nearby JUST ask me to move. They say something rude, they cough and glare, or they get snarky. If they can't have a tenth the courtesy I've already showed through my positioning of myself, of course they get a rude answer, usually accompanied by an extra long drag, a glare, and a large cloud of smoke headed their direction.
|
On April 19 2011 21:33 Velr wrote:
I think that attitude came up since nowadays it's not allowed in a ton of places to not smoke. So when your actually at a place where it's allowed and someone still wants to send you away (after around 10 fake coughs with an evil stare) you don't really feel obligated to be "nice".
Btw: I don't remember EVER being asked nicely to put out a cigarette. But fake coughs seem to be THE THING to do, i wonder if that ever has worked on anyone ever.
As a heavy ex-smoker (1 year quit FTW!) I still hate people who give fake coughs when someone is smoking on the street or in other places where smoking is allowed. When they told me to stop, I told them I was allowed to and if they continued harassing me I usually told them to go fuck themselves.
Smoking is very bad for your health and I think people do understand this but it does have to remain a choice. The state is responsible for informing the people and not restricting their liberties even if it is for their own good.
To all of those who argue that smokers cost more than the average person, then please ban everyone who does a hazardous sport (diving, skiing, skateboarding etc) since their higher accident rate also makes them "more expensive" for the state. This argument is ludicrous.
|
I personally don't care about the health effects of smoking. It doesn't bother me. What does really make me hate smokers is the smell. I hate it when a colleague gets back from the smoke break and reeks of burned tobacco. I hate it when i walk somewhere and someone in front of me smokes and i have to stop breathing to avoid that horrible odor.
I do like the smell of pipes (meaning the "grandfathery" ones) though. Usually they smell far better than their paper counterparts and are far less annoying.
|
OP what you describe in your post is never going to happen. There is simply too much money to be made and the companies that make cigarettes will never give up on it.
Quitting smoking is very hard if you are surrounded by people who smoke regularly. It is even harder when you live in a country such as mine where 99% of the bars/pubs/clubs allow smoking.
It comes down to every individual's willpower to do it. I tried quitting 5-6 times in 4 years and I couldn't do it.
|
We are all going to die anyway, even people who never smoked a ciggarette are dying to cancer. It is probably caused by passive smoking (yeah right). I say enjoy your cigarette if you want - it is your choice. Avoid to blow smoke to someone's face as it is annoying as hell.
I might need to remind you to realize what do you eat everyday and do some research. 80% of food is unhealthy just like cigarettes and much more stuff.
As much as you want, you won't be able to dodge all the bullets and cigs are just one of them.
|
On April 19 2011 20:13 HeaDStrong wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 20:02 SolHeiM wrote:On April 19 2011 19:58 HeaDStrong wrote:On April 19 2011 19:54 SolHeiM wrote:On April 19 2011 19:52 HeaDStrong wrote:On April 19 2011 19:43 SolHeiM wrote:On April 19 2011 19:33 Grettin wrote:On April 19 2011 19:15 fearus wrote:
Another smoker's point of view:
Please enjoy your personal freedom of choice to smoke or not, and allow others the same. Right point of view. Agreed completely. This isn't an attack on you, but on a certain breed of person who thinks that just because they're a smoker and there are no laws against smoking they're allowed to smoke wherever they fucking want. Sure, pollute your own system if you want but please realize that not everyone wants to breathe the cancerous smoke you're spewing. I shouldn't have to move away from the group to breathe crisp, clean air because you decided you needed to feed your pathetic addiction. You should move away so as to spare the health of everyone else. People like those annoy me to no end. He didn't say or imply that he blows smoke on babies and pregnant women. You know one can smoke without doing harm to anyone else. But no you have to dramatize it and make a personal attack on someone who does not deserve it. People like you annoy me to no end. Also most of the arguments used against smokers can be used against fat people as well- they don't work out, they eat unhealthy- it's bad it should be banned. You do realize that passive smoking is even worse for the people around you than it is for the smoker right? That is what I'm talking about. Did you neglect the fact that passive smoking exist? 1st no passive smoking is not as harmful as actual smoking. That is complete nonsense. And what I'm saying is that when I (and sure a lot of many other people who smoke) don't go out of our own way to find someone to blow our smoke on. You're been watching the TV show Bullshit, I imagine. They actually recanted everything they said in that episode, you know. Because it's been scientifically proven that passive smoking is more harmful than actual smoking. Hey stop with the personal insults to compensate the lack of substance in your arguments. If you make a claim of 'scientific research' show me some evidence- a publication or at least provide an argument on the idea level that supports your claim. And you are not even listening to what I'm trying to tell you. When I smoke I do so respecting others and not exposing anyone to the second hand smoke. The only person affected by my smoke is me or my friends who CHOOSE to be around me when I go to have a smoke.
What insults?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_smoking#Evidence - Feel free to click the [XX] links and ta-da, there are plenty of sources for you.
And you didn't seem to be listening to what I was trying to convey in my post either. I was talking about these certain breed of person who do not care about the fact that they are inconveniencing non-smokers who they are around. If you're at a party and you're sitting outside and one suddenly lights up a cigarette, that's not acceptable. Move away and have your cigarette away from the rest of the group because not everyone wants to have to inhale your pollution. It's THOSE people I'm referring to.
|
On April 19 2011 22:31 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 20:13 HeaDStrong wrote:On April 19 2011 20:02 SolHeiM wrote:On April 19 2011 19:58 HeaDStrong wrote:On April 19 2011 19:54 SolHeiM wrote:On April 19 2011 19:52 HeaDStrong wrote:On April 19 2011 19:43 SolHeiM wrote:On April 19 2011 19:33 Grettin wrote:On April 19 2011 19:15 fearus wrote:
Another smoker's point of view:
Please enjoy your personal freedom of choice to smoke or not, and allow others the same. Right point of view. Agreed completely. This isn't an attack on you, but on a certain breed of person who thinks that just because they're a smoker and there are no laws against smoking they're allowed to smoke wherever they fucking want. Sure, pollute your own system if you want but please realize that not everyone wants to breathe the cancerous smoke you're spewing. I shouldn't have to move away from the group to breathe crisp, clean air because you decided you needed to feed your pathetic addiction. You should move away so as to spare the health of everyone else. People like those annoy me to no end. He didn't say or imply that he blows smoke on babies and pregnant women. You know one can smoke without doing harm to anyone else. But no you have to dramatize it and make a personal attack on someone who does not deserve it. People like you annoy me to no end. Also most of the arguments used against smokers can be used against fat people as well- they don't work out, they eat unhealthy- it's bad it should be banned. You do realize that passive smoking is even worse for the people around you than it is for the smoker right? That is what I'm talking about. Did you neglect the fact that passive smoking exist? 1st no passive smoking is not as harmful as actual smoking. That is complete nonsense. And what I'm saying is that when I (and sure a lot of many other people who smoke) don't go out of our own way to find someone to blow our smoke on. You're been watching the TV show Bullshit, I imagine. They actually recanted everything they said in that episode, you know. Because it's been scientifically proven that passive smoking is more harmful than actual smoking. Hey stop with the personal insults to compensate the lack of substance in your arguments. If you make a claim of 'scientific research' show me some evidence- a publication or at least provide an argument on the idea level that supports your claim. And you are not even listening to what I'm trying to tell you. When I smoke I do so respecting others and not exposing anyone to the second hand smoke. The only person affected by my smoke is me or my friends who CHOOSE to be around me when I go to have a smoke. What insults? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_smoking#Evidence - Feel free to click the [XX] links and ta-da, there are plenty of sources for you. And you didn't seem to be listening to what I was trying to convey in my post either. I was talking about these certain breed of person who do not care about the fact that they are inconveniencing non-smokers who they are around. If you're at a party and you're sitting outside and one suddenly lights up a cigarette, that's not acceptable. Move away and have your cigarette away from the rest of the group because not everyone wants to have to inhale your pollution. It's THOSE people I'm referring to.
"your pathetic addiction" quite offensive, you talk about things you don't understand and thus are being ignorant...
"You're been watching the TV show Bullshit, I imagine. They actually recanted everything they said in that episode, you know." absolutely uncalled for and insulting. What do you know what I have been watching or not? So don't talk about things you don't know and make claims about others without any basis.
Your way of proving someone wrong and yourself right is by trying to make the other person look bad instead of actually tackling what they are saying and trying to find flaws in that.
So here's why you are wrong and why I called you out:
You do realize that passive smoking is even worse for the people around you than it is for the smoker right?
Short answer: no.
Long answer no, because no.
All the Wikipedia page said was: yea second hand smoke is bad... kind of... hard to prove actually...
Not a single claim was made that it's more harmful than actual smoking. QED
EDIT: if you still don's see it this is for you:
Harm done to smoker: Active smoking + Passive smoking
Harm done to non-smoker: Passive smoking
Harm done to smoker >= Harm done to non-smoker
|
The notion second hand smoke is worse than smoking itself for the individual fails to comply with logic even in its most rudimentary interpretations.
|
Dip their cigarettes in peroxide?
|
Really, I don't think smoke is that much of a big deal, I walk past alot of smokers each day, just don't get addicted like that and the world will be fine. Also, smoking isn't that huge of a distraction, if you've engorged yourself in what your doing, nothing can really distract you from it. Like when i'm playing some SC2 :O, sometimes it takes 5 calls for me to respond. Well, just my opinion.
|
the entire purpose of not smoking in bars, clubs and other public places isn't to get people to quit. It's because 2nd hand smoke has a lot of wonderful side effects that a non-smoker can't escape.
people don't ask nicely for smokers to not blow smoke in their face because you're dense enough to be so rude to do it in the first place. Pretty common sense!
|
On April 19 2011 23:40 Hawk wrote:
the entire purpose of not smoking in bars, clubs and other public places isn't to get people to quit. It's because 2nd hand smoke has a lot of wonderful side effects that a non-smoker can't escape.
people don't ask nicely for smokers to not blow smoke in their face because you're dense enough to be so rude to do it in the first place. Pretty common sense!
Yeah, the non-smoker totally has to go to "smoker" Bars/Clubs... Oh wait.. he doesn't and still went... But it's the evil smokers that "assault" him with their smoke.
If there would have been a demand, there would have been "non"-smoker Bars/Clubs... Afaik there were none or they closed...
Hypocrits...
|
It's not gonna work until cigarettes are no longer addicting. The raise in tax made me think not "oh fuck its too expensive I will buy less" but "Oh fuck it's expensive so Ill buy the same but when they sell them 2 for 6.85 ill just buy 2 packs!! nice!"
Its a great business and people are not going to stop us from killing ourselves. But hey I have quit for weeks at a time, I just like smoking ok?? I hope i grow out of it soon though because running a mile in 8 minutes is not that impressive..
|
On April 20 2011 00:18 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 23:40 Hawk wrote:
the entire purpose of not smoking in bars, clubs and other public places isn't to get people to quit. It's because 2nd hand smoke has a lot of wonderful side effects that a non-smoker can't escape.
people don't ask nicely for smokers to not blow smoke in their face because you're dense enough to be so rude to do it in the first place. Pretty common sense! Yeah, the non-smoker totally has to go to "smoker" Bars/Clubs... Oh wait.. he doesn't and still went... But it's the evil smokers that "assault" him with their smoke. If there would have been a demand, there would have been "non"-smoker Bars/Clubs... Afaik there were none or they closed... Hypocrits...
yes, because potentially subjecting everyone to cancer is preferable to those people going outside or to designated smoking areas. Wooooooooooo
|
smokers are a detriment to society (a large amount of smokers/former smokers relying on welfare/medicare/medicaid/social security to pay their smoking related medical bills)
not to say that it's the only thing that causes this kind of problem, but it is huge - i don't like paying for the bad choices that others make with their activities, money, and health
|
i hear good things about the patch
|
On April 20 2011 00:43 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:
smokers are a detriment to society (a large amount of smokers/former smokers relying on welfare/medicare/medicaid/social security to pay their smoking related medical bills)
not to say that it's the only thing that causes this kind of problem, but it is huge - i don't like paying for the bad choices that others make with their activities, money, and health
A large amount of non-smokers also rely on all those services. Maybe we should just get rid of welfare and medicare?
What about alcoholics/former alcoholics relying on those services for medical bills for their liver?
Obese people who should have watched their diet and exercised?
As it turns out, people will always have self inflicted health issues. The question should be whether we support people who can't support themselves at all or not, instead of basing it on where their issues came from. If medicare and medicaid were only for people in perfect health, they wouldn't need to exist.
Also, you complain about smokers being a detriment to society, but consider the obscene tax on tobacco products paid in most parts of the US. Comes to a LOT of money flowing back in.
|
On April 20 2011 02:19 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2011 00:43 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:
smokers are a detriment to society (a large amount of smokers/former smokers relying on welfare/medicare/medicaid/social security to pay their smoking related medical bills)
not to say that it's the only thing that causes this kind of problem, but it is huge - i don't like paying for the bad choices that others make with their activities, money, and health A large amount of non-smokers also rely on all those services. Maybe we should just get rid of welfare and medicare? What about alcoholics/former alcoholics relying on those services for medical bills for their liver? Obese people who should have watched their diet and exercised? As it turns out, people will always have self inflicted health issues. The question should be whether we support people who can't support themselves at all or not, instead of basing it on where their issues came from. If medicare and medicaid were only for people in perfect health, they wouldn't need to exist. Also, you complain about smokers being a detriment to society, but consider the obscene tax on tobacco products paid in most parts of the US. Comes to a LOT of money flowing back in.
OBSCENE taxation really, 8 dollars in NY last time I was there? The taxation on equally harmful products such as alcohol is nowhere as high.
|
Wow, I really didn't expect so much hatred towards smokers here. They're people too you know. And just like everyone else, they have flaws.
Some things I'd like to address:
- Passive smoking and no-smoking areas: Here everyone is hating on the smokers while they should be hating on bad organization. There should be bars/clubs for smokers and for non-smokers, so everyone knows what he's up to and can't whine that he can't smoke here or that others are. Bullshit goes both ways really, non-smokers bitching about people smoking in a club where smoking is not forbidden is a farse. So is smokers bitching about smoking being forbidden in a club.
But I guess it all really boils down to basic common sense and, truth be told, 99% of the world population seems to lack this feature.
- It's bad for the society, bad for the country, bad for my taxes/other expenses: Please...
- smokers are a part of the society, they've been as long as time immemorial and, honestly, I have no clue how the society would even look like without them
- someone has already mentioned smokers dying younger which saves money on pension, no-one has mentioned the amount of money the country gets from cigarette sails (in taxes, customs and what not)
- I don't think that health costs due to cigarette smoking are higher than those of people who are alcoholics or whatever addicts really, there are also disabled people or those with serious, uncurable diseases. Would you like them all to go away too? Perhaps we should revert back to Spartan ways and throw babies down the ravine when they show any signs of less-than-perfect health?
Moral of this story:
The world would be a better place for everyone if more people used common sense and stopped hating on each other.
Edit: Also, if large, international companies would have reduced ways/chances of lobbying and be brought under control. As it is now, some of them are comparable, if not exceeding the power of entire modern governments (one of the things Giddens mentions in his problems with globalisation).
|
How is someone having to go outside to smoke anything like one smoker subjecting 10 other people in a room to harmful chemicals???? I cannot wrap my head around this at all. You are creating health problems for people who have no choice in the matter.
How is everyone having to deal with 2nd hand smoke and all the shit that comes with it preferable to a few people not pushing themselves on others and going outside to smoke some kind of desecration of your rights?? It's the other way around if anything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
