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On April 19 2011 19:58 HeaDStrong wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 19:54 SolHeiM wrote:On April 19 2011 19:52 HeaDStrong wrote:On April 19 2011 19:43 SolHeiM wrote:On April 19 2011 19:33 Grettin wrote:On April 19 2011 19:15 fearus wrote:
Another smoker's point of view:
Please enjoy your personal freedom of choice to smoke or not, and allow others the same. Right point of view. Agreed completely. This isn't an attack on you, but on a certain breed of person who thinks that just because they're a smoker and there are no laws against smoking they're allowed to smoke wherever they fucking want. Sure, pollute your own system if you want but please realize that not everyone wants to breathe the cancerous smoke you're spewing. I shouldn't have to move away from the group to breathe crisp, clean air because you decided you needed to feed your pathetic addiction. You should move away so as to spare the health of everyone else. People like those annoy me to no end. He didn't say or imply that he blows smoke on babies and pregnant women. You know one can smoke without doing harm to anyone else. But no you have to dramatize it and make a personal attack on someone who does not deserve it. People like you annoy me to no end. Also most of the arguments used against smokers can be used against fat people as well- they don't work out, they eat unhealthy- it's bad it should be banned. You do realize that passive smoking is even worse for the people around you than it is for the smoker right? That is what I'm talking about. Did you neglect the fact that passive smoking exist? 1st no passive smoking is not as harmful as actual smoking. That is complete nonsense. And what I'm saying is that when I (and sure a lot of many other people who smoke) don't go out of our own way to find someone to blow our smoke on.
You're been watching the TV show Bullshit, I imagine. They actually recanted everything they said in that episode, you know. Because it's been scientifically proven that passive smoking is more harmful than actual smoking.
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On April 19 2011 20:02 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 19:58 HeaDStrong wrote:On April 19 2011 19:54 SolHeiM wrote:On April 19 2011 19:52 HeaDStrong wrote:On April 19 2011 19:43 SolHeiM wrote:On April 19 2011 19:33 Grettin wrote:On April 19 2011 19:15 fearus wrote:
Another smoker's point of view:
Please enjoy your personal freedom of choice to smoke or not, and allow others the same. Right point of view. Agreed completely. This isn't an attack on you, but on a certain breed of person who thinks that just because they're a smoker and there are no laws against smoking they're allowed to smoke wherever they fucking want. Sure, pollute your own system if you want but please realize that not everyone wants to breathe the cancerous smoke you're spewing. I shouldn't have to move away from the group to breathe crisp, clean air because you decided you needed to feed your pathetic addiction. You should move away so as to spare the health of everyone else. People like those annoy me to no end. He didn't say or imply that he blows smoke on babies and pregnant women. You know one can smoke without doing harm to anyone else. But no you have to dramatize it and make a personal attack on someone who does not deserve it. People like you annoy me to no end. Also most of the arguments used against smokers can be used against fat people as well- they don't work out, they eat unhealthy- it's bad it should be banned. You do realize that passive smoking is even worse for the people around you than it is for the smoker right? That is what I'm talking about. Did you neglect the fact that passive smoking exist? 1st no passive smoking is not as harmful as actual smoking. That is complete nonsense. And what I'm saying is that when I (and sure a lot of many other people who smoke) don't go out of our own way to find someone to blow our smoke on. You're been watching the TV show Bullshit, I imagine. They actually recanted everything they said in that episode, you know. Because it's been scientifically proven that passive smoking is more harmful than actual smoking.
Hey stop with the personal insults to compensate the lack of substance in your arguments. If you make a claim of 'scientific research' show me some evidence- a publication or at least provide an argument on the idea level that supports your claim.
And you are not even listening to what I'm trying to tell you. When I smoke I do so respecting others and not exposing anyone to the second hand smoke. The only person affected by my smoke is me or my friends who CHOOSE to be around me when I go to have a smoke.
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Higher healthcare premiums for smokers?
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Recently in Australia, it was passed (or proposed?) that all cigarette packets had to be completely blank (minus the gruesome smoking pictures), so no more of these fancy coloured packs to attract people - a small step towards what you're saying, I guess.
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On April 19 2011 20:14 Suc wrote:
Recently in Australia, it was passed (or proposed?) that all cigarette packets had to be completely blank (minus the gruesome smoking pictures), so no more of these fancy coloured packs to attract people - a small step towards what you're saying, I guess.
how would you differentiate between brands? But I agree that some cigs have ridiculous stuff put on them for example Kent have nonsense like "surround taste system", or 'HD flavor'. And those things are completely retarded to anyone who is old enough to smoke, so in my opinion it's to attract minors, which is bad.
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On April 19 2011 20:14 ShadeR wrote:
Higher healthcare premiums for smokers?
Doesn't that already exist, at least in countries with private healthcare? I could swear I remember being asked if I was a smoker when I bought health insurance.
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On April 19 2011 19:37 Holgerius wrote:
I do not entirely agree with the ''Let people smoke if they want to'' argument. All the diseases caused by smoking costs a lot of money for the society and we should definitely strive to reduce it as much as possible.
Why do people perpetuate this myth?
Smokers die early , thus save governments money via the reduction in pension payments.
Whats 10 years of pension payments worth in your country?
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On April 19 2011 20:14 ShadeR wrote:
Higher healthcare premiums for smokers?
Why would you do that? Think a little about it before you answer... You might end up being surprised.
Damn, beaten 
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On April 19 2011 20:28 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 19:37 Holgerius wrote:
I do not entirely agree with the ''Let people smoke if they want to'' argument. All the diseases caused by smoking costs a lot of money for the society and we should definitely strive to reduce it as much as possible. Why do people perpetuate this myth? Smokers die early , thus save governments money via the reduction in pension payments. Whats 10 years of pension payments worth in your country?
People don't just kick the bucket and die. People with cancer can't work so the amount of sick leaves increase, you lose productivity, the health care cost a lot of money... it is not beneficial to an economy.
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It is
"Normal" people also die due to cancer (is it allready the main cause of natural dead? It will be very Soon).
The average Smoker is cheaper to society as the average "person".
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On April 19 2011 20:43 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2011 20:28 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On April 19 2011 19:37 Holgerius wrote:
I do not entirely agree with the ''Let people smoke if they want to'' argument. All the diseases caused by smoking costs a lot of money for the society and we should definitely strive to reduce it as much as possible. Why do people perpetuate this myth? Smokers die early , thus save governments money via the reduction in pension payments. Whats 10 years of pension payments worth in your country? People don't just kick the bucket and die. People with cancer can't work so the amount of sick leaves increase, you lose productivity, the health care cost a lot of money... it is not beneficial to an economy.
Because only people who smoke get cancer?
By that logic the govt should ban all fast food restaurants.
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According to the Swedish National Institute of Public Health smokers do cost more than non-smokers over the course of their life-time.
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I am not a smoker, but I am anti-anti-smoking. If the price of me not telling a fellow conscientious adult where they're allowed to enjoy a cigarette is getting lung cancer via second-hand smoke, then sign me up for lung cancer.
I think Velr's term "health-fascism" is a pretty good one, and evaluating people in terms of how much they "cost society" is reductionist and anti-human. Call me crazy, but I think concepts like freedom and self-determination ought to rank a little higher in our political triage than cost efficiency.
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I hate the kind of people who doesnt have the courage to ask a smoker to move away while smoking or to even put it out, if it bothers you. You would probably find that we're not unreasonable when dealing with a reasonable request. It's all about the attitude.
How to stop people from smoking? You can't really. We'll just have to try and live side by side.
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I am not suggesting a total ban on cigarettes, but I definitely do think that society should make a strenuous effort to have as few smokers as possible, by various means.
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Holgerius is the reason why it is an oxymoron to be a socialist and be for personal liberty, which is why I chuckle at the bi-polar personalities who want socialist healthcare, and personal liberty, then in the same breath want to restrict personal liberties.
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On April 19 2011 21:16 Finskie wrote:
I hate the kind of people who doesnt have the courage to ask a smoker to move away while smoking or to even put it out, if it bothers you. You would probably find that we're not unreasonable when dealing with a reasonable request. It's all about the attitude.
How to stop people from smoking? You can't really. We'll just have to try and live side by side.
In my own experiences most smokers are the complete opposite of this. I don't mind smokers personally but I've seen other people ask smokers to move away from them and the usual response is something along the line of 'you move away, I don't care' or they get offended and agressive and say something like 'fuck off'. Might've been bad luck though, I guess.
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On April 19 2011 21:21 Bergys wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 19 2011 21:16 Finskie wrote:
I hate the kind of people who doesnt have the courage to ask a smoker to move away while smoking or to even put it out, if it bothers you. You would probably find that we're not unreasonable when dealing with a reasonable request. It's all about the attitude.
How to stop people from smoking? You can't really. We'll just have to try and live side by side. In my own experiences most smokers are the complete opposite of this. I don't mind smokers personally but I've seen other people ask smokers to move away from them and the usual response is something along the line of 'you move away, I don't care' or they get offended and agressive and say something like 'fuck off'. Might've been bad luck though, I guess.
Well you know, there are always idiots out there and i imagine people can ask quite rudely aswell. I've had people saying close to "get the fuck away" or similarities when they just could have asked friendly and i'd not bitch about it.
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I think that attitude came up since nowadays it's not allowed in a ton of places to not smoke. So when your actually at a place where it's allowed and someone still wants to send you away (after around 10 fake coughs with an evil stare) you don't really feel obligated to be "nice".
Btw: I don't remember EVER being asked nicely to put out a cigarette. But fake coughs seem to be THE THING to do, i wonder if that ever has worked on anyone ever.
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I don't mind if people smoke, just kinda confusing to me as I don't do it. only thing thats gets me is if the smoke is getting in my face, can be really annoying when your not used to it. Other than that I don't think there's any point in banning them, I'm not losing anything from other people doing it. To each his own and all that jazz.
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EPT
