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So, spent all evening (besides homework for school) sparring back and forth with a Masters Zerg buddy off-racing as Protoss against me.
By the end of the evening, I'm confused, demoralized and doubting everything I think about playing zerg. He gives me advice, but either I'm so horrible at using it, or he giving me advice that only someone his level can actually pull off or something, but I just lose even more horribly than before.
I lose to stupid 3 and 4 gate pushes that I didn't used to lose to. I lose to the usual deathball.
I managed to pull off a win with mutas and corrupters alone vs 'toss. I don't even think that's supposed to work??! That's my only game this evening even coming CLOSE to even being KINDA even. The rest are just ridiculous shut-outs.
I don't even care about winning. Obviously some shitty gold zerg isn't gonna be taking too many wins off a Master-level player...but I'd at least like to feel like I'm getting someplace, improving some facet of my play, something...
I dunno, I just feel like I'm stuck on this ridiculous plateau at the top of Gold league and I'll never get past it. Everyone above AND below me all spout the same formulaic advice and subscribe to all the same build orders and strategies. But some of them are below me, some are above me and some are equal to me...but they all say the same things, word for word, all the time.
And none of it helps.
Repeating the same thing and expecting different results, that's insanity, isn't it?
 
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dude you are just new to the game... i felt the same way the first 3 years of playing bw on wgtour/neogame-i and early seasons of PGT...
don't get frustrated, is part of the learning process.
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When someone destroys you like that, I find it helpful to load up the replay and look at some stuff.
Are you banking money at any point? (especially in the 6-14 minute range?)
Do you have any larva going unspent?
How are your queens doing? Any energy unspent?
What I'm describing above is really what people are talking about when they tell someone at your level "just macro better." If your money and larva are piling up because you don't know what to make, just make something. Better to spend larva than leave it idle, better to inject or lay a creep tumor than leave queens with energy in them (unless your build revolves around having some energy in queens for Transfusion.)
I'd say the reason everyone says the same things all the time, but are above or below you, is just because they are working towards a common goal and are at different places along the track, you happen to be ahead of some and behind others.
The TL:BW article How to practice is quite good in laying out some RTS essentials. I'd mostly focus on the "Basic Steps to Improvement" for "D level players."
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I remember I used to watch Lz's stream back in the bw days and think to myself, this guys macro is terrible how is he A- and I'm C-. I still don't understand... I was faster and kept my money down and everything and I couldn't touch C players, He was making B players looks like newbies and he'd stockpile thousands of minerals! I had a point somewhere.. starcraft has a lot of subtitles that make huge differences and you pick up these things with time and careful analysis. Don't get discouraged, focus on the little things you could do better
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On April 13 2011 15:41 n.DieJokes wrote:
I remember I used to watch Lz's stream back in the bw days and think to myself, this guys macro is terrible how is he A- and I'm C-. I still don't understand... I was faster and kept my money down and everything and I couldn't touch C players, He was making B players looks like newbies and he'd stockpile thousands of minerals! I had a point somewhere.. starcraft has a lot of subtitles that make huge differences and you pick up these things with time and careful analysis. Don't get discouraged, focus on the little things you could do better
I had a lot of this in the broodwar days also. Sometimes it was just because a player had many more drones than I did so spent the same money but had extra. Or unit control was absurd with some lurker ling defiler or something similar. I miss lurkers and defilers so much =(
And it may not feel like you're learning now, but take a few days off and ignore starcraft completely for those days. Don't go on teamliquid don't stream don't even think about it. A refresher is good and sometimes your brain starts to overthink and needs time off. I had a similar experience and came back today playing and feeling better than ever, even in my losses.
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Thanks for the replies and the good info.
I actually just bought this book and the OTHER book DayJ usually reccommends alongside this one, but have not had time to read either yet (nor the other like 4 books in my "want to read" pile), that's more scheduling related than anything, so hopefully I'll have time for that, soon!
I hadn't seen these before, but I had been trying to go over the practices listed in a couple "How to Analyze Replays" and "How to Improve Efficiently" threads I found here on TeamLiquid Forums.
As to some of the other questions and answers posed:
On April 13 2011 15:32 Tuneful wrote:
Are you banking money at any point? (especially in the 6-14 minute range?)
Do you have any larva going unspent?
How are your queens doing? Any energy unspent?
On most games where I'm actually still focused (by the end of a 5-6 game stomping I get pretty sloppy), I usually start floating a lot of money around the 15 minute mark, but the game is 10x past lost by the point usually.
Unspent Larva can be an issue in the midgame, usually while trying to defend and macro at the same time, but I'm getting better at it.
Queens I'm actually getting pretty good at, I think. I seldom have much missed inject time or floated energy before pretty late game (18 minutes or so? like 4-5 bases?). This is, again, dependant on focus, however.
I have played SC2 and BW since around...er...like 1997 I think? I dunno, sometime early in my HS career, however I'd been away from the game for YEARS following 2000, not coming back until about a year or two ago. I tried doing ICCUP at that time, and I think I peaked at around C-? but not for long. I was in D+ for most of the time.
For now, I feel like my main issue isn't necessarily the MECHANICS of macro, since I can do it when I'm against the AI, or when I'm up against a particularly passive opponent, my problem is macroing approriately to the game. Like, if I have an aggressive opponent, knowing when to stop drones, when to re-start droning, when can I be aggressive? When can't I be aggressive?
I played a game against my Masters buddy the other day, I got up to like 5 bases super fast, maxed out to 200/200 in under 15 minutes I think(?), and when he started pushing with his deathball, I remaxed like 10 times in a row. So, like 2000 food later, he's still standing atop my smouldering corpse.
I almost feel like I'm learning backwards at this point. Games where I macro really well, have lots of bases and drones, tons of food of units, low unspent resources...I still lose. It's stupid, because playing against player(s) 3 leagues above me I KNOW I'm gonna lose, but it still makes it feel like even the things I'm doing right, I'm doing wrong.
Bottom line:
tl;dr:
When you lose all the time, it's hard to pick out the difference between your strengths and your weaknesses. Also, when you pull off a surprise win, it's hard to tell the difference between something you did right, and just getting lucky.
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Playing with people who outclass you isn't going to help you improve, simply because lower level people play different meta game. He is going to tell you to do x y z which will work vs someone on a higher level. But vs some retard gold/plat/diamond who has no game sense or idea of how the game works, you are actually hurting yourself by playing better.
My best advice is to either have someone give you help mechanically, or find practice partners on your level or just barely ahead. Mass ladder is good too. I can help you out some if you like, just pm me =)
Think of it as free lessons.
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If it makes you feel better I got demoted into Bronze last night :O I started off in Silver playing random trying to figure out which race to play. Got beat down a bit, then started getting matched up against bronzers and started winning, got a 10 game win streak, then played and lost, and boom demoted :O
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EPT
