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This post contains spoilers for the TSL.
I'm sorry to make yet another "QQ" blog, but I just had to write something somewhere, otherwise I might explode. At least I didn't make this in SC2 General. 
I am ridiculously fed up with people writing off and badmouthing the TSL because of recent results, mostly in the context of live report and various whine-filled threads. What in the hell are these people thinking, and why do they feel the need to bring down everything and everyone around them? Just because the winners didn't fit your pre-conceived (and completely wrong) notions of how the tournament would turn out, you're turning your back on it? After everything that so many people dedicated to setting this up for you, the viewer? (not that I'm against complaints -- I'm just against totally unjustified complaints, or idiotic complaints out of the hands of the admins)
I am stunned at the number of people making excuses for the losers of close, incredible games. They blame balance, they blame the maps, they blame lag, they blame the "cheesiness" of the other player... whatever is convenient. They, of course, don't blame the loser.
Hate to break it to you guys, but if NesTea, FruitDealer, MVP, IdrA, Jinro, HuK, Strelok, Ciara, Loner, Genius, NightEnD, Ret, Fenix, Haypro, ZeeRaX, or TLO were the better players on the day they lost, they would have won their games. Being a better player doesn't mean that you're stronger in long macro games, that you've got godlike micro, that you've got better multitasking, that your APM is higher, that you picked the "overpowered" race, or any combination of the above. If you're a better player, you win. If anything else mattered, then we wouldn't play the damn game -- we would pit players against a Very Easy AI, and whoever has a higher APM after fifteen minutes of pumping drones wins. There are too many variables in a game of StarCraft to declare an arbitrary combination of them an approximation of "skill". Skill wins games. Period.
I think more than anything else I'm angered at the amount of disrespect being shown by many members of the community. This amazing tournament, that you've been hyped about for months, that had a tremendous amount of work put into it with no real compensation, that has the best production values that we've seen anywhere, is suddenly shit because some absolutely stunning games have taken place that resulted in unprecedented upsets. And now that incredible new talent has shown itself, you're going to say that the ro16 on is going to be filled with "bronze-level" matches "filled with allins" instead of being totally fucking sweet games pitting people who beat GSL champions against each other showcasing styles, timings, and mindgames that we've never experienced before? I don't understand.
I mean, yes, I've been disappointed when players I admired lost in unimpressive fashions. It happens. But what I don't get is when people lash out at players and administrators and the game itself. I couldn't believe the number of people declaring their bottomless hatred of Cruncher after a cheeky little ":)".
Allow me to quote rekrul:
Rekrul wrote:
All I'm asking of you, Idra, is to show some respect. Show some respect to the community, your team, the opponent that just raped you, and most importantly yourself by just frankly admitting to the fact that he outplayed you in the series and raped you straight up. No one is judging you saying F91 >>> you. F91 certainly was >>>> you that day and it was not due to luck. It was because he raped you. No one gives a fuck whos better between you and F91.
Ironic that this came from a post about a heated showmatch between IdrA and legendary Chinese player F91.
Rekrul wrote:
Instead of acting like an insecure little faggot by continuing to throw out stupid posts about 'why you lost' just say GG well played and move on with your life. Even when I was in Korea and breakdown raped me I admitted the truth: that I played horribly. Sure I could have done better but I did play horrible and I did lose straight up. I admitted that fact and moved on with my life and didn't sit around trying to blame my opponent's stupidity for why I lost. I mean seriously how can you blame your opponents stupidity for why you lost that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard LOL. Thats like doing a big-time drug sale where the agreement is 'bring no weapons' then you show up there unarmed and get robbed. How fucking stupid can YOU be. If you wasted less time making excuses and put that time into improving as a player and figuring out how you could have won given the dire circumstances that F91's brilliance put you in maybe people wouldn't hate you so much.
Probably the best solution is to just stop reading live report threads. Sorry that I wrote an angry blog post, and I know I shouldn't let the trolls get to me, but I had to get that out of my system before I took it out on people who didn't deserve it. :/
  
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I think you mean ro32 winners?
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People are angry at Cruncher's " "?
I was so happy when I saw that
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I also wonder at the mindset of complainers. I don't know any person who is so whiny that they have to take every minute thing and bitch about it like spoilt little shits, but LR threads are stacked with them and I genuinely wonder what those peoples minds are like.
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On March 28 2011 08:42 Rotodyne wrote:People are angry at Cruncher's " "? I was so happy when I saw that Same here. This TSL has been absolutely amazing so far.
As far as I could tell Idra was BM'ing constantly and Cruncher shrugged it off. He even tried to be the better man with his "GL HF." After taking so much crap it's hard to resist a smug smile, because in the end it's the results that matter.
It reminds me of trash talk from high school sports: If you're winning, you just smile and say "scoreboard." Nothing more needs to be said
Edit: The fanboyism has been pretty disgusting too. Apparently any time a favorite loses it's because the other player did a "gay cheese rush all-in," even if said attack occurred at the 10-15 min mark. So many LR comments were along the lines of "wow x totally outplayed y but y was being super gay."
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I don't even see why people would be upset at a
It's a smiling face, globally accepted as a friendly gesture.
Anyway I agree with you completely. I don't know how or if this lamentable attitude in TSL3's LR threads is going to improve, but I hope it does. As they are, they simply do not represent or reinforce the Team Liquid that I'm proud to be immersed in.
EDIT: Not completely. I have to agree with other repliers in that isolated series wins do not decisively affirm player skill differentials in any direction. When A beats B in a Bo3, all that constitutes is evidence suggesting that A is more skilled than B. Still, the game results are the most relevant evidence, especially compared to silly metrics like APM or... ability to make drones o.O
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United States13896 Posts
Renamed thread as all you could see on the sidebar immediately was "Negative attitudes ..."
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I think your point isn't so wrong, but it's really stupid to say that the better player always wins. We already have a word for the player who won, it's "winner", so "better player" should not be used to mean the same thing. That definition is circular anyway--you win because you are better, and you are better because you win. But certainly we can tell that TLO is better than me without him and I playing one another, right?
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Yeah I was pretty happy when I saw the too, just because IdrA didn't gg in either of the first games. Overall I think some players do need to admit their faults and manner up, although I can understand being pissed off. If it's a habit to always play with the bm mindset that some players do then I think it becomes a problem.
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The problem is, it's hard to define what makes a player better than the other, or what makes a "play" in a match better than that of their adversary.
Truth is: the better player is not necessarily the one that wins. So people find reasons why a player that they favor did not score. Be it lag, "abusive" (gotta love that word) tactics, cheeses, all-ins, luck, map balance or race balance. And until better play can be defined (which it will never completely be), people will find reasons to criticize and downplay the winner's play style.
And I agree, it's a shame. If you wanna hate, hate the game, not the players.
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Heck, I can't even say that I've enjoyed it much, and even then I agree wholeheartedly. A lot of the things that happen on IRC and in the LR threads makes me want to keep any discontent to myself, lest I get roped in with the people who just can't stop shitting all over the tournament.
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On March 28 2011 08:56 huameng wrote:
I think your point isn't so wrong, but it's really stupid to say that the better player always wins. We already have a word for the player who won, it's "winner", so "better player" should not be used to mean the same thing. That definition is circular anyway--you win because you are better, and you are better because you win. But certainly we can tell that TLO is better than me without him and I playing one another, right? Of course you can never infer from a single match who is better overall, but a lot of the negative stuff goes far beyond that. There's a lot of "Wow banelings/void rays what a skill-less newby. TSL will be terrible now because X got knocked out by Y and Y is terrible"
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Overall the games have been great. I think the whiners need to stfu and enjoy.
I thought the was classy. I think Idra and his bm is good for the scene though; it brings drama and excitement.
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yeah I loved CrunCher's smiley finisher, that was awesome.
:D I agree though.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
I think the vast majority of people would say that it's been a fantastic tournament so far and know better than to take one or two issues or hiccups and tar the whole effort with that brush. And I know everyone who works to make the TSL works isn't bothered by the one guy out of sixty thousand on stream who says "I'm not watching anymore because all the good players are out." If someone sees only what conforms to their narrow version of the Sc2 world, then they can't be helped, and it's their loss ultimately.
This is what the TSL has been about for its entire history after all. The TSL is about having fun, discovering talent, building fans for the game, and most of all, bringing communities together. And on all of those counts, TSL3 has been a tremendous success.
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2 things sprung to mind when i watch game 3 of idra vs cruncher
1. how easy it is for zerg to just die
2. forcefield, good spell.
this isnt to say LOL PROTOSS OP. cruncher moved out of his base, idra hit the drone key. whether or not protoss is op is for another discussion, but thats just how it went down.
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It's kind of funny that the complainers are probably the least likely to stop watching despite constantly "threatening" to do so. I think Cruncher had the right answer:
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Yup, lots of random trolls that are butt hurt. I agree with not reading the Reporting threads completely, talking to friends on vent about the matches is all I need really. Lets me rage if need be, but I generally just watch all the matches to try and learn not be a Fanboy. Personally I am stoked that all the korean invites / foreigners from korea got smashed by NA / EU players. Of course I liked almost every player in the tournament, but these events mean were going to see plenty of NEW styles, which is great.
Rage heard my friend, power down.
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I think lots of people get pissed because they have this notion that certain players "deserve" to win over another. This is TSL3, not American Idol or Starcraft Idol. Everyone that qualified has shown they have skill, they either proved it through qualifying, getting enough points on the TSL ladder, or of course being invited by TSL3.
The thing I think a lot of people should take away from a lot of the results so far is that just because someone is uberly more famous than someone else, or more known, doesn't necessarily mean they are better, or that they can't lose or make mistakes too. Imagine if TSL3 had done 100% invites. You'd never get to see players like cruncher or less knowns qualify and show they can compete and beat some of the best players. People shouldn't be so angry, they should be happy new players with high skill have the opportunity to show it in a huge tournament like this.
And on another note, you can see why a lot of these big tournaments lately keep trying to "protect" big name players and do lots of "invite-only" formats. It's impossible for already established big names to always win 100% of their games, and a lot of them are more hyped up then their actual current skill level. SC2 is very volatile and the skill difference is not much between top players, who can all take games off of each other.
People should stop being so negative about TSL3 I definitely agree. It has one of the best production values of most tournaments as of late, and ran the most fair qualifiers possible for entry into the tournament. Not many new leagues/tournaments lately can say the same.
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EPT
