• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:26
CEST 08:26
KST 15:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)12Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format13[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!5Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) BGE Stara Zagora to be held again in June 2025
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Etiquete rules in Asl? Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA) Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool
Tourneys
[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10708 users

Don't read this. It's not even close to ready.

Blogs > Betalump
Post a Reply
Betalump
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States109 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-26 00:54:04
March 25 2011 05:40 GMT
#1
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/147351-1v1-terran-protoss-backwater-gulch

Just a game of me playing randomly that sparked an idea for a build... There are tons of holes in this replay and is nowhere even close to what it looks like now. (Yes I know I should have died to)

Just trying to organize my thoughts here.

(masters random)


Awhile back I was trying to get a better handle on pvt and the only opening that felt right or made sense to me (especially on large maps) was 1-2 gate stargate or something similar. There were some scenarios where I found it actually was worth it to transition to carriers.

If I saw a tank or an armory and couldn't kill with initial voidray/pheonix push I would immediately tech to DT's and expand. (staying on 2 gates and adding robo whenever you feel most comfortable) From there I would throw down a second stargate, fleet beacon ,(tuck them somewhere hard to scout in the main) and crono out air upgrades and expand again. (preferably far away if they are meching hard)

It feels extremely vulnerable at first, but its actually much better than it feels even though you have very few units. It's actually amazing how good just 2-4 micro'd defensive carriers + dt are this early in the game. Even if you only have a few zealots on the ground to go with them.

So where are we?

Tech:
2 stargates + air upgrades
1 robo bay or forge (don't forget dt drops and cannons they are your friends!)
1 dark shrine

Take a 3rd preferably hard to get to (dt's and or cannons work wonders to defend this) and tech to high templars (or even possibly collosus if you switch to pheonix) which melt both marines and vikings. Some things I have done with some success out of this. (depending on scouting)

Stop carriers and air upgrades at 1-1 throw down a bunch of gates and use a HT based strategy.
Stop carriers switch to pheonix/collosus (with high templar you almost have to take a 4th base almost immediately after the 3rd just for gas which usually isn't that unnatural as it connects your main to your 3rd)
Stop carriers switch to voidrays (haven't found a use for this one yet ^^)

or my favorite

Throw down a second cyber core, Crono out double air upgrades plus shields, and continue to make carriers. Stay on minimal number of gates get shuttle speed and dt/ht harrass and drop to your hearts content. Expanding becomes extremely hard if you continue to harass with dt/ht throughout the game not just the moment you get them. The terran will either go for an all in attack which probably won't work against defensive ht + defensive carriers. Or they will have to turtle up with a bunch of turrets ect. Here is a game I play.

If you force 1 turret that is +1 point.
If you force 1 planetary fortress that is +2 points.
If you force 1 raven that is +3 points.

Why is a turret a victory? Because turrets can't move and attack you. And they are almost worthless against any large number of carriers. In order for them to work another attacking unit needs to be around to support them. Both against dt's and carriers can snipe expansions with minimal loses even if they are supported by bunch of turrets. 1 turret is 100 less minerals in the attack when they eventually attack you.

Why is a planetary fortress a victory? That is 300 less minerals or 1 less scan available to them per 50 energy. And its usually easier to kill a PF with carriers than an orbital just because it can't float in the opposite direction you are kiting your carriers. If they don't build PF they have to leave units behind when they attack or dt's go to town.

Why is a raven a victory? Because a raven super expensive and is completely useless against carriers. Yes pdd blah blah blah, but when you think about it 1 raven actually means 2 less potential vikings. Thats 2 less attacking units for the terran against 3 of the 4 highest dps and cost effective units in the protoss arsenal. Another pleasant side effect of a player that gets atleast 1 raven is that they don't save scans. Simply snipe the raven(s) first and let your dts go to town.

Notes:

Spread out your gateways, throw down defensive pylons/cannons/ht at expansions to nullify harrassment, (pretend its bw style pvz with building/choke management but build cannons around nexus rather than at choke) and work on trying to take additional bases after your 3rd earlier and earlier. You always will lose the expansion the terran attacks first (later stages of the game), but if played correctly it will cost them their entire army or the same amount of expansions at home. (dt and/or carrier counter attack)

Keep your carriers in a safe defensive posture until after you reach a critical mass (able to snipe expansions and run to more favorable ground) or crush an attack. Every carrier that stays alive early in the game makes the fleet 100x better just a few minutes later. Especially once you hit 2-2 upgrades and beyond. I've started to avoid getting a 3rd stargate even though you can support it. You absolutely need to be able to pump out sacrificial ht and dt to harrass and defend expansions. And make more observers of than normal. This makes defensive carrier movement and dt/ht harrass so much easier and more effective.

Expanding - Prefer small ramps, in distant locations. I've even started building extra gateways and pylons to wall in expansions completely or block entrances to more open expansions. Warpgate and cannons make it possible to defend well enough and long enough for you to kill it off or stall long enough for a counter attack of your own to do just as much or more damage to the opponents bases.

The hidden dangers. Thors and Ghosts. Probably the 2 most effective units against your unit composition. The trick is to not react to them. Simply build more carriers/ht/dt. Don't start building gateway units or immortals to react to them. You simply won't be able to produce enough units for them to be effective. Thors are dangerous because they are so beefy. They are so high on health that they provide shelter for marines against the carriers and can survive through storm very well. Second is that they deal splash... I've had to learn to spread carriers during battles and am trying to figure out the most effective way to kite with carriers without stacking them.

Ghosts are the natural enemy to stacked protoss units (carriers) and to HT/DT. They ARE the unit that give the terran the ability to take down more than 1 expansion in a push and can end the game in a heartbeat if you make a mistake with your carriers. A couple EMP followed by a full out attack of marines/thors/vikings is your worst nightmare. But then again isn't that the case in almost all pvt's?

p.s. its laughable that BC's are faster than medivacs now.

*
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
March 25 2011 06:07 GMT
#2
what happens if i read it?
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
March 25 2011 06:26 GMT
#3
On March 25 2011 15:07 Roe wrote:
what happens if i read it?


You posted without reading?
BM

just teasin'~
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
March 25 2011 08:17 GMT
#4
--- Nuked ---
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 34m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft924
oGsTOP 128
StarCraft: Brood War
Bale 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
Icarus 13
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm139
League of Legends
JimRising 710
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1211
Other Games
summit1g5527
C9.Mang0298
XaKoH 163
RuFF_SC285
Trikslyr12
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1801
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH298
• practicex 21
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota287
League of Legends
• Stunt650
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 34m
CrankTV Team League
4h 34m
WardiTV Qualifier
5h 34m
Epic.LAN
6h 34m
Big Brain Bouts
9h 34m
SHIN vs Elazer
Percival vs Nicoract
Reynor vs Lambo
Replay Cast
17h 34m
RSL Revival
1d 2h
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
1d 3h
Epic.LAN
1d 6h
IPSL
1d 9h
Dragon vs Hawk
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
OSC
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-13
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Escore Tournament S3: W3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.