• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:10
CET 18:10
KST 02:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled5Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains12Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18BSL Season 224
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Buy THC Vape Carts In Dubai telegram @greenplug420 BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Terran AddOns placement
Tourneys
https://www.facebook.com/BubaSocks.Official/ [GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO WardiTV Team League Season 10 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Mexico's Drug War NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2767 users

Don't read this. It's not even close to ready.

Blogs > Betalump
Post a Reply
Betalump
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States109 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-26 00:54:04
March 25 2011 05:40 GMT
#1
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/147351-1v1-terran-protoss-backwater-gulch

Just a game of me playing randomly that sparked an idea for a build... There are tons of holes in this replay and is nowhere even close to what it looks like now. (Yes I know I should have died to)

Just trying to organize my thoughts here.

(masters random)


Awhile back I was trying to get a better handle on pvt and the only opening that felt right or made sense to me (especially on large maps) was 1-2 gate stargate or something similar. There were some scenarios where I found it actually was worth it to transition to carriers.

If I saw a tank or an armory and couldn't kill with initial voidray/pheonix push I would immediately tech to DT's and expand. (staying on 2 gates and adding robo whenever you feel most comfortable) From there I would throw down a second stargate, fleet beacon ,(tuck them somewhere hard to scout in the main) and crono out air upgrades and expand again. (preferably far away if they are meching hard)

It feels extremely vulnerable at first, but its actually much better than it feels even though you have very few units. It's actually amazing how good just 2-4 micro'd defensive carriers + dt are this early in the game. Even if you only have a few zealots on the ground to go with them.

So where are we?

Tech:
2 stargates + air upgrades
1 robo bay or forge (don't forget dt drops and cannons they are your friends!)
1 dark shrine

Take a 3rd preferably hard to get to (dt's and or cannons work wonders to defend this) and tech to high templars (or even possibly collosus if you switch to pheonix) which melt both marines and vikings. Some things I have done with some success out of this. (depending on scouting)

Stop carriers and air upgrades at 1-1 throw down a bunch of gates and use a HT based strategy.
Stop carriers switch to pheonix/collosus (with high templar you almost have to take a 4th base almost immediately after the 3rd just for gas which usually isn't that unnatural as it connects your main to your 3rd)
Stop carriers switch to voidrays (haven't found a use for this one yet ^^)

or my favorite

Throw down a second cyber core, Crono out double air upgrades plus shields, and continue to make carriers. Stay on minimal number of gates get shuttle speed and dt/ht harrass and drop to your hearts content. Expanding becomes extremely hard if you continue to harass with dt/ht throughout the game not just the moment you get them. The terran will either go for an all in attack which probably won't work against defensive ht + defensive carriers. Or they will have to turtle up with a bunch of turrets ect. Here is a game I play.

If you force 1 turret that is +1 point.
If you force 1 planetary fortress that is +2 points.
If you force 1 raven that is +3 points.

Why is a turret a victory? Because turrets can't move and attack you. And they are almost worthless against any large number of carriers. In order for them to work another attacking unit needs to be around to support them. Both against dt's and carriers can snipe expansions with minimal loses even if they are supported by bunch of turrets. 1 turret is 100 less minerals in the attack when they eventually attack you.

Why is a planetary fortress a victory? That is 300 less minerals or 1 less scan available to them per 50 energy. And its usually easier to kill a PF with carriers than an orbital just because it can't float in the opposite direction you are kiting your carriers. If they don't build PF they have to leave units behind when they attack or dt's go to town.

Why is a raven a victory? Because a raven super expensive and is completely useless against carriers. Yes pdd blah blah blah, but when you think about it 1 raven actually means 2 less potential vikings. Thats 2 less attacking units for the terran against 3 of the 4 highest dps and cost effective units in the protoss arsenal. Another pleasant side effect of a player that gets atleast 1 raven is that they don't save scans. Simply snipe the raven(s) first and let your dts go to town.

Notes:

Spread out your gateways, throw down defensive pylons/cannons/ht at expansions to nullify harrassment, (pretend its bw style pvz with building/choke management but build cannons around nexus rather than at choke) and work on trying to take additional bases after your 3rd earlier and earlier. You always will lose the expansion the terran attacks first (later stages of the game), but if played correctly it will cost them their entire army or the same amount of expansions at home. (dt and/or carrier counter attack)

Keep your carriers in a safe defensive posture until after you reach a critical mass (able to snipe expansions and run to more favorable ground) or crush an attack. Every carrier that stays alive early in the game makes the fleet 100x better just a few minutes later. Especially once you hit 2-2 upgrades and beyond. I've started to avoid getting a 3rd stargate even though you can support it. You absolutely need to be able to pump out sacrificial ht and dt to harrass and defend expansions. And make more observers of than normal. This makes defensive carrier movement and dt/ht harrass so much easier and more effective.

Expanding - Prefer small ramps, in distant locations. I've even started building extra gateways and pylons to wall in expansions completely or block entrances to more open expansions. Warpgate and cannons make it possible to defend well enough and long enough for you to kill it off or stall long enough for a counter attack of your own to do just as much or more damage to the opponents bases.

The hidden dangers. Thors and Ghosts. Probably the 2 most effective units against your unit composition. The trick is to not react to them. Simply build more carriers/ht/dt. Don't start building gateway units or immortals to react to them. You simply won't be able to produce enough units for them to be effective. Thors are dangerous because they are so beefy. They are so high on health that they provide shelter for marines against the carriers and can survive through storm very well. Second is that they deal splash... I've had to learn to spread carriers during battles and am trying to figure out the most effective way to kite with carriers without stacking them.

Ghosts are the natural enemy to stacked protoss units (carriers) and to HT/DT. They ARE the unit that give the terran the ability to take down more than 1 expansion in a push and can end the game in a heartbeat if you make a mistake with your carriers. A couple EMP followed by a full out attack of marines/thors/vikings is your worst nightmare. But then again isn't that the case in almost all pvt's?

p.s. its laughable that BC's are faster than medivacs now.

*
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
March 25 2011 06:07 GMT
#2
what happens if i read it?
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
March 25 2011 06:26 GMT
#3
On March 25 2011 15:07 Roe wrote:
what happens if i read it?


You posted without reading?
BM

just teasin'~
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
March 25 2011 08:17 GMT
#4
--- Nuked ---
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 50m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 643
LamboSC2 193
Harstem 185
trigger 80
Livibee 55
RushiSC 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 27673
BeSt 590
Rush 250
Light 203
IntoTheRainbow 93
Backho 41
Mind 36
Rock 36
scan(afreeca) 19
GoRush 17
Dota 2
Gorgc5578
qojqva1924
Counter-Strike
fl0m4302
byalli368
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor156
Other Games
gofns23313
tarik_tv6967
Grubby1991
B2W.Neo714
Beastyqt626
DeMusliM243
KnowMe134
Liquid`VortiX99
ArmadaUGS71
BananaSlamJamma52
QueenE26
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream19324
Other Games
gamesdonequick1121
ComeBackTV 136
BasetradeTV89
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 13
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota253
• Noizen38
League of Legends
• Nemesis8255
• Jankos1644
• TFBlade835
• Shiphtur293
Other Games
• imaqtpie240
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 50m
CranKy Ducklings
16h 50m
RSL Revival
16h 50m
MaxPax vs Rogue
Clem vs Bunny
WardiTV Team League
18h 50m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
23h 50m
Patches Events
23h 50m
BSL
1d 2h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 16h
RSL Revival
1d 16h
ByuN vs SHIN
Maru vs Krystianer
WardiTV Team League
1d 18h
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
GSL
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-12
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
Proleague 2026-03-13
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.