• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:26
CET 16:26
KST 00:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets3$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1825
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list? Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced WardiTV Winter Cup
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Hubungi kami - Bank DBS The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1865 users

Don't read this. It's not even close to ready.

Blogs > Betalump
Post a Reply
Betalump
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States109 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-26 00:54:04
March 25 2011 05:40 GMT
#1
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/147351-1v1-terran-protoss-backwater-gulch

Just a game of me playing randomly that sparked an idea for a build... There are tons of holes in this replay and is nowhere even close to what it looks like now. (Yes I know I should have died to)

Just trying to organize my thoughts here.

(masters random)


Awhile back I was trying to get a better handle on pvt and the only opening that felt right or made sense to me (especially on large maps) was 1-2 gate stargate or something similar. There were some scenarios where I found it actually was worth it to transition to carriers.

If I saw a tank or an armory and couldn't kill with initial voidray/pheonix push I would immediately tech to DT's and expand. (staying on 2 gates and adding robo whenever you feel most comfortable) From there I would throw down a second stargate, fleet beacon ,(tuck them somewhere hard to scout in the main) and crono out air upgrades and expand again. (preferably far away if they are meching hard)

It feels extremely vulnerable at first, but its actually much better than it feels even though you have very few units. It's actually amazing how good just 2-4 micro'd defensive carriers + dt are this early in the game. Even if you only have a few zealots on the ground to go with them.

So where are we?

Tech:
2 stargates + air upgrades
1 robo bay or forge (don't forget dt drops and cannons they are your friends!)
1 dark shrine

Take a 3rd preferably hard to get to (dt's and or cannons work wonders to defend this) and tech to high templars (or even possibly collosus if you switch to pheonix) which melt both marines and vikings. Some things I have done with some success out of this. (depending on scouting)

Stop carriers and air upgrades at 1-1 throw down a bunch of gates and use a HT based strategy.
Stop carriers switch to pheonix/collosus (with high templar you almost have to take a 4th base almost immediately after the 3rd just for gas which usually isn't that unnatural as it connects your main to your 3rd)
Stop carriers switch to voidrays (haven't found a use for this one yet ^^)

or my favorite

Throw down a second cyber core, Crono out double air upgrades plus shields, and continue to make carriers. Stay on minimal number of gates get shuttle speed and dt/ht harrass and drop to your hearts content. Expanding becomes extremely hard if you continue to harass with dt/ht throughout the game not just the moment you get them. The terran will either go for an all in attack which probably won't work against defensive ht + defensive carriers. Or they will have to turtle up with a bunch of turrets ect. Here is a game I play.

If you force 1 turret that is +1 point.
If you force 1 planetary fortress that is +2 points.
If you force 1 raven that is +3 points.

Why is a turret a victory? Because turrets can't move and attack you. And they are almost worthless against any large number of carriers. In order for them to work another attacking unit needs to be around to support them. Both against dt's and carriers can snipe expansions with minimal loses even if they are supported by bunch of turrets. 1 turret is 100 less minerals in the attack when they eventually attack you.

Why is a planetary fortress a victory? That is 300 less minerals or 1 less scan available to them per 50 energy. And its usually easier to kill a PF with carriers than an orbital just because it can't float in the opposite direction you are kiting your carriers. If they don't build PF they have to leave units behind when they attack or dt's go to town.

Why is a raven a victory? Because a raven super expensive and is completely useless against carriers. Yes pdd blah blah blah, but when you think about it 1 raven actually means 2 less potential vikings. Thats 2 less attacking units for the terran against 3 of the 4 highest dps and cost effective units in the protoss arsenal. Another pleasant side effect of a player that gets atleast 1 raven is that they don't save scans. Simply snipe the raven(s) first and let your dts go to town.

Notes:

Spread out your gateways, throw down defensive pylons/cannons/ht at expansions to nullify harrassment, (pretend its bw style pvz with building/choke management but build cannons around nexus rather than at choke) and work on trying to take additional bases after your 3rd earlier and earlier. You always will lose the expansion the terran attacks first (later stages of the game), but if played correctly it will cost them their entire army or the same amount of expansions at home. (dt and/or carrier counter attack)

Keep your carriers in a safe defensive posture until after you reach a critical mass (able to snipe expansions and run to more favorable ground) or crush an attack. Every carrier that stays alive early in the game makes the fleet 100x better just a few minutes later. Especially once you hit 2-2 upgrades and beyond. I've started to avoid getting a 3rd stargate even though you can support it. You absolutely need to be able to pump out sacrificial ht and dt to harrass and defend expansions. And make more observers of than normal. This makes defensive carrier movement and dt/ht harrass so much easier and more effective.

Expanding - Prefer small ramps, in distant locations. I've even started building extra gateways and pylons to wall in expansions completely or block entrances to more open expansions. Warpgate and cannons make it possible to defend well enough and long enough for you to kill it off or stall long enough for a counter attack of your own to do just as much or more damage to the opponents bases.

The hidden dangers. Thors and Ghosts. Probably the 2 most effective units against your unit composition. The trick is to not react to them. Simply build more carriers/ht/dt. Don't start building gateway units or immortals to react to them. You simply won't be able to produce enough units for them to be effective. Thors are dangerous because they are so beefy. They are so high on health that they provide shelter for marines against the carriers and can survive through storm very well. Second is that they deal splash... I've had to learn to spread carriers during battles and am trying to figure out the most effective way to kite with carriers without stacking them.

Ghosts are the natural enemy to stacked protoss units (carriers) and to HT/DT. They ARE the unit that give the terran the ability to take down more than 1 expansion in a push and can end the game in a heartbeat if you make a mistake with your carriers. A couple EMP followed by a full out attack of marines/thors/vikings is your worst nightmare. But then again isn't that the case in almost all pvt's?

p.s. its laughable that BC's are faster than medivacs now.

*
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
March 25 2011 06:07 GMT
#2
what happens if i read it?
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
March 25 2011 06:26 GMT
#3
On March 25 2011 15:07 Roe wrote:
what happens if i read it?


You posted without reading?
BM

just teasin'~
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
March 25 2011 08:17 GMT
#4
--- Nuked ---
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
12:00
Group C
Creator vs GuMihoLIVE!
GuMiho vs YoungYakov
WardiTV1099
TKL 202
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko418
TKL 202
Harstem 172
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 1959
Horang2 1825
Mini 763
Soma 636
BeSt 473
ZerO 411
Light 408
hero 358
Snow 327
Rush 241
[ Show more ]
Mong 216
Hyun 150
Hyuk 120
Zeus 79
Barracks 67
GoRush 33
JYJ 29
Free 21
Rock 21
Yoon 20
910 18
Terrorterran 17
JulyZerg 14
scan(afreeca) 11
Bale 11
Noble 7
Dota 2
qojqva1785
syndereN312
XcaliburYe104
ODPixel71
Counter-Strike
fl0m2268
byalli225
oskar88
edward71
Foxcn68
adren_tv22
Other Games
singsing2089
B2W.Neo1168
Liquid`RaSZi858
hiko726
Hui .286
crisheroes280
QueenE177
Sick149
ArmadaUGS139
Mew2King65
KnowMe27
ZerO(Twitch)18
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HappyZerGling 114
• poizon28 1
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2273
• WagamamaTV493
• Noizen53
League of Legends
• Jankos3769
• TFBlade946
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
18h 34m
OSC
20h 34m
Jumy vs sebesdes
Nicoract vs GgMaChine
ReBellioN vs MaNa
Lemon vs TriGGeR
Gerald vs Cure
Creator vs SHIN
OSC
1d 20h
All Star Teams
2 days
INnoVation vs soO
Serral vs herO
Cure vs Solar
sOs vs Scarlett
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
All Star Teams
3 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-13
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.