EPTWant to know what Bronze is actually like? - Page 4
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
pooling 1,000+ minerals by the 6 minute mark! | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
On March 25 2011 15:10 Turgid wrote: I also think that some of them end up with roughly what the build order calls for but don't actually get it in the right order. Things like going pylon pylon core or going 3gate before core into robo, or trying to go 3gate robo but getting the robo last for some reason. Maybe they take that day9 advice to have a general idea of what you want to have at a given point in the game too literally That too. | ||
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cujo2k
Canada1044 Posts
The reason why their "macro" is so bad is that they do not have any good build orders, so they are unable to make as many units as players who smurf these levels with pure stalker or queen builds. But they do make a lot of workers, and in comparison to the worst players on starcraft broodwar, the bronzers have godly macro - just no actual build orders or any game plan whatsoever O_O Or they might know a general idea of a build order, but their execution is so bad it doesn't really help them at all. | ||
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RivalryRedux
United States173 Posts
Now I'm not saying anything is more important than macroing it up. I just think most people don't understand what actually goes on in the lower leagues and thus give very generic advice when many low level players are looking for something more than that. For instance despite it's reputation bronze is pretty devoid of cheese. Most cheesers have worked there way into silver and gold with easy victories. I play a decent amount of custom games with off races and run in to lower level players sometimes (I'm low masters, kind of inactive) and truthfully IT IS pretty generic. At most points in the game they usually don't have enough units to be able to successfully do ANYTHING strategically. I think lower level players would be well served to practice macroing in custom games. Just try out different things like how fast can you max on two bases with a good army composition or how much stuff can you have for different timing attacks. Then watch the replay and see where you can fix some things (too many/too few barracks, whatever) and try again. Also watch some replays of good players to see how they set up their production facilities and they're timings and try to see how close you can get to them. You'll probably be surprised at how much more stuff you have when you're just focusing on macroing than you do when you're playing real games (even factoring in battles). I know that's happened to me a few times. From there when you go in to ladder games you won't have to spend as much time thinking about what to build and you can direct your attention more towards using the things you've built. | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
That is why day9 says don't remember by the supply count but " i put gate when i have the money for it while maintaining constant probe production) | ||
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Imagist
Australia484 Posts
The best way for them to learn to macro better is by working with those better players that aren't sanctimonious or dismissive about them over a period of time, so I hope the OP can at least get some constructive feedback about the problems the replays reveal and how to avoid them in concrete terms (ex: not "you missed a building timing", but "here's a basic way to avoid missing that building timing that worked for me"). | ||
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TheDeli
France110 Posts
Afterwards, you want to remember to constantly make probes once you start expanding. That, and always check how much supply you have until getting supply-blocked (chances are, if the differential is < 8, "You must construct additional pylons" before the game shouts that). That, and if your minerals are > 500, make army. If, despite making army, there still is *some* leftover, you need to build something that you'll make units from (such as a gateway, robo, stuff). Afterwards #2, you need to react to your opponent. Example: As any race, in any matchup, you need detection at some point in the game and you need to discover when (burrowed roaches hit at around 9mn-ish; I don't remember as far as DTs & Banshees but it's around the 7-8mn mark?). If you're Zerg, if you scout Colossus, you may need some corrupters in your army mix so that your roach/hydra ball won't melt. That sort of stuff. So, "just macro" isn't enough. Having a game plan (such as having X unit composition at the 15mn mark) is more important, since "just macro" would be the tool (not the end in itself). "Just macro" will be shortened to "Execution" of the game plan. === Edit: Any guy who says I'm wrong on the DT/Banshee timing approximation, you may correct me. As for the rest, I'm trying not to overload w/ info, despite doing a poor job at it :p | ||
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Alexson
Belarus293 Posts
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iSTime
1579 Posts
As much as some people in bronze like to say that there's more to it than macroing better, it's only because they probably haven't been given any specific advice like the above. | ||
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dementrio
678 Posts
On March 25 2011 03:18 Tercotta wrote: Ok, I'm going to be more clear because I feel that maybe some people are misunderstanding what I was trying to get at. My fault for not being clear enough. I don't think there is some super secret to get out of bronze. My macro sucks, it's what keeps me down. After I posted this I won a TvZ with 3k mins banked. I could get out of bronze building nothing but reapers and medivacs if I could keep my money low. But this is to get a general picture of low level play for everyone struggling at this level. Find specific problems with how specific races and matchups. If you look at my Terran stats and compare them with other stats of my Terran opponents you see everyone has similar issues. Thus we can create objectives more precise than "keep you money down." There are patterns at play. And figuring them out can be a big help for a large group of people. The ultimate goal would be to create some sort of list of what low level and new players can expect when they play online. When you say, "build shit" you guys understand the connotations of what that means. A low level player may then think, "build what?" So in essence you are saying "I know that if I spent my 3k bank I could have won easily, but how can i win while having a 3k bank?" If that is your mindset ("you" is not you but a generic low-leaguer), I don't think you want to get out of the low leagues; after all they are meant to be there for people like you, who don't have fun trying to click faster but do trying a dt rush or a tank drop. Unfortunately all the strategical advice one gives under the assumption that you'd play with poor mechanics is moot, because games are unpredictable. For example, I know that stopping drones at 26 food and massing speedlings thereafter is the best response, when done correctly, to a correctly done 4gate. However if you suck at injecting and he sucks at 4gating you may find that other things work better for you; but you can't expect higher level people to take your troubles seriously and try to help you find what the best bad-mechanics strategy would be to counter another badly executed strategy. By all means have fun trying to find it out yourself! or with the help of your bronze buddies. Nothing wrong with that, unless your goal is actually getting promoted, in which case there's just not running away from improving your damn mechanics. | ||
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