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Tasting victory, transitioning to BW from SC2

Blogs > ArcticVanguard
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ArcticVanguard
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States450 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-28 09:33:49
February 28 2011 08:37 GMT
#1
I'm new to StarCraft, especially compared to most people here. I bought StarCraft 2 on launch day just on a whim after seeing TLOwnage on YouTube. I saw that and thought "that looks fun, I want to do that!" Sure enough, StarCraft 2 was one of the most fun games I've ever played. I never was good at real time strategy, having previously owned Company of Heroes. And let me tell you right now: I suck at CoH. I can't beat the AI on easy. I simply don't 'get' the game. I kept thinking "this is way too slow, I want something faster." StarCraft 2 was that game for me. And yet, after getting to the high (/sarcasm) level of Silver on the 1v1 ladder, I found myself yearning for something... more.

I'd heard stories of this game: StarCraft: Brood War. I was intruiged. No automine? No smart cast? 12 units in a unit group? Only selecting one building at a time? Ridiculous! Who could stand to play a game like that? And yet... I was curious. I bought StarCraft Anthology from the Blizzard store and booted it up, deciding to go through the campaign.

Since I'm a Zerg player in StarCraft 2, I figured I should start with the Zerg campaign. I didn't want to play through the base game, oh no. I wanted to jump straight into Brood War. The graphical quality of the game put me off a bit after starting up the mission. What the heck, this game was made in '98, couldn't they have made it 3-D? If it's not already obvious, I'm from a generation where graphics actually matter. I told myself "Arctic, graphics don't matter in a game. If the game is fun, it will be fun with or without good grapics," and I went to play.

What were my second thoughts? "WHY WON'T MY UNITS GO WHERE I TELL THEM!?" I'd discovered the pathing. It confused me why my zerglings would surround so slowly if at all when I a-moved them. Why wouldn't they clump together either? When I a-moved zerglings, why did they form a conga line? This must be what I'd always heard about.

After trying (and failing) the mission several times, I finally beat it... ...and promptly got stomped on the second mission. In my frustration, I decided to play against the AI some. I picked Zerg against a Protoss AI and played on Lost Temple because it was the only map I could possibly know other than iCCup Fighting Spirit, since I played that map in SC2 some.

In this first attempt, I knew nothing of build orders in BW, I just did what ever "felt" right. Thus, in my not-so-infinite wisdom, I went 14 gas 14 pool, just like in SC2. A minute later, 7 zealots were knocking at my door. "No!" I shouted after losing that game. I figured after that "my pool felt really late, maybe I should go look up a build order." Thus I tried the overpool build... and got stomped again. Finally I found that 12 hatch worked great for me. My hatch came up in time for my additional production to kick in and make enough zerglings to defend myself. I finally won, after countless games.

Then I went on iCCup, because it was impossible to find a good game on BNet. I played... nine games or so. Lost every single one 'cause I had no idea what I was doing. I was so frustrated I reset my stats and quit. This was dumb, I should be able to win without practicing real build orders and learning to consistantly beat the AI!

Cut to three months (or so) later and I'm bored. I look at Brood War again and think to myself. "...time to give it another shot." I go and start playing against the AI again. I was determined to beat that danged Protoss AI consistently! What ended up working for me? Lurker Ling into Ultra Ling. My macro and micro were terrible, but it was good enough.

After memorising 12hatch and Overpool vs Toss, I decided it was time to try iCCup again.

I joined a game calling for D/D- players on iCCup Python. I'd heard of the map, but I'd never played on it. Not that that was going to stop me, of course. I scouted fairly early by BW standards and saw he wasn't rushing. That made me feel confident enough to drone up pretty hard and get my lair going. I sent in a zergling to check his natural, mostly 'cause I was looking for his unit composition. All I saw were zealots and cannons at his natural.

I was suspicious after that, so I sacc'd an overlord to look into his base. Then I saw them, the fear of low-level players like me everywhere: carriers. Yeah, he was carrier rushing. Not that it was much of a rush, as I was on 5 bases by that point to his 2. I'd read somewhere that devourers were pretty good against capital ships, and I was already going a mutalisk-heavy composition, so that would work! Especially since I can't micro scourges.

I interrupted my third attack upgrade to morph my greator spire, 'cause by that point, he had a lot of carriers, and I was afraid of him pushing out. Luckily for me, he didn't. I morphed about half of my mutalisks into devourers, since I wanted to make sure I had enough mutalisks left over to attack his base to make sure he couldn't resupply. I went ahead and got my ultralisk cavern so that once my lings died, I could make ultras with the gas I'd accumulated since hitting my supply cap. I'd hit 3/3 on my ground upgrades and I got all the ling upgrades, so I did the only logical thing.

I sent in the lings.

My hope with the lings was to make him panic and send out his carriers after killing my lings. The lings worked better than I'd ever imagined. His natural got destroyed and he lost his entire ground army. The rest of my lings were sacc'd in a futile attempt to breach his main. Of course they died, but they'd done enough damage both to his base and to his psyche that they were no longer needed. I started morphing some ultralisks for the next step in my plan.

Lucky for me, my plan worked! He panicked and sent his carriers out. He hadn't even scouted me, so he didn't know where I even was. Luckily for me, all he found was my fifth base. I went ahead and sacrificed that base so I could get my mutalisks and devourers into position. I was patient and watching carefully. I saw him moving back to his base, so that's when I moved in. I caught him out of position with my units and unleashed hell. For some reason, he'd just moved instead of a-moving back to base. But hey, what ever works for me, right?

I went ahead and moved on into his base with my units and continued attacking his carriers. Suddenly he realized "oh, my units are being attacked!" It took long enough, but eventually, he attacked back. It was looking tense for a while there, since I didn't micro my units at all. Lots of devourers and mutalisks were falling, faster than I'd thought. I realized half-way through the battle that I wasn't focus-firing, so I started doing that. When his carrier numbers were low, I sent in my ultras to start raiding his base.

Success! The last carrier fell and my mutalisks were free to attack the remaining structures. It was a good game, although my opponent quit without saying GG. I wasn't about to say it first (and I had no idea how to speak in all chat in a game instead of just allied) of course, but he just left the game.

It's been a... short road, admittedly, but it feels like a long one, and it's only gonna get longer. For a newbie like me, it was well worth it. I was just happy to win at Brood War against an actual human instead of just the AI. I love the feeling of winning against a human in the RTS game that all others are measured against. This is just the beginning and it's all uphill from here.

Now that I've written this, time to work on my next two challenges: a computer history essay, and beating the Terran AI.

tl;dr: I went to play BW from SC2, ragequitted BW after being unable to beat the AI or the campaign as Zerg. Finally beat the AI, got stomped on iCCup. Went back on iCCup, won against a 2basing protoss who was massing carriers.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm looking for practice partners! I'm ArcticVanguard on iCCup, and I main Zerg. I'm looking into trying Terran, as the feel of Terran is rather similar to the Zerg in SC2. Preferably someone who's a rather casual player like I am.

****
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." ~C.S. Lewis
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3006 Posts
February 28 2011 08:54 GMT
#2
Lol, those damn 12 zealot rush of the AI...
At least they don't proxy gate.
Zerg AI sometimes do 4 pool.

I was just happy to win at Brood War against an actual human instead of just the AI. I love the feeling of winning against a human in the RTS game that all others are measured against.


This reminds me of this blog. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=180692
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
February 28 2011 09:02 GMT
#3
Haha you sound just like me when I was 14. The BW is incredibly frustrating for a newbie but the reward is so great it's addictive.
Rillanon.au
Endymion
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States3701 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-28 09:06:15
February 28 2011 09:02 GMT
#4
This blog put a "big banana grin" (ugh, quoting day9) on my face, I remember my first time playing Zerg-01 in the 90s! Oh the memories!

Also, Iccup blows when you first start off. I started playing on it in 2007 cold, no build orders, no map knowledge, no pro replays/vods, and I lost ~50 games before winning a single one. I brought a friend of mine into it and he lost closer to 100 before winning one. However, we both now agree that BW is the best game that we have ever played, so welcome to the club!
Have you considered the MMO-Champion forum? You are just as irrational and delusional with the right portion of nostalgic populism. By the way: The old Brood War was absolutely unplayable
HollowLord
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3862 Posts
February 28 2011 11:00 GMT
#5
BW is easily one of the best games ever made. Just be glad you're not protoss and don't have to deal with Dragoon AI. Going from SC2 pathing to Dragoon AI would probably be the most challenging thing in the universe.
dota 2 stream #noskill #feed #noob twitch.tv/dmcredgrave
HeaDStrong
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Scotland785 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-28 12:13:16
February 28 2011 12:12 GMT
#6
I remember first playing iccup and winning like 5 games in a row. Then sitting at around 1700 and starting to extrapolate what level I'm going to get and how fast... but yea I obviously just began to lose and fell to a D-...

The build orders doesn't matter, neither mechanical skills and speed. The only thing that matters is the love for the game. If you like the process itself not only the wins and a shiny letter next to your account, the loses will not be so painful, the wins will be even more rewarding and you'll have genuine fun.

see you on the ladder sometime...
N.geNuity
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States5112 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-28 14:30:24
February 28 2011 14:29 GMT
#7
Nothing beats the feeling of getting a rank higher in iccup. I remember how great it was to hit d+ for the very first time. And when you beat a korean on iccup you feel so awesome. Doesn't matter if you lost to 4 koreans before that, beating 1 korean in a good game is the best.
iu, seungah, yura, taeyeon, hyosung, lizzy, suji, sojin, jia, ji eun, eunji, soya, younha, jiyeon, fiestar, sinb, jung myung hoon godtier. BW FOREVERR
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
February 28 2011 14:40 GMT
#8
Just hang out in op teamliquid on icc and ask for games/practise. People will happily help you I reckon. Also watching the earlier GomTV BW seasons (with Tasteless commentating) can help a ton in learning the game (my experience)
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3006 Posts
February 28 2011 14:58 GMT
#9
On February 28 2011 23:29 N.geNuity wrote:
Nothing beats the feeling of getting a rank higher in iccup. I remember how great it was to hit d+ for the very first time. And when you beat a korean on iccup you feel so awesome. Doesn't matter if you lost to 4 koreans before that, beating 1 korean in a good game is the best.

I was 50 points (1 win) away from D+.
I lost 7 in a row, and went like 2-14 and it dropped me backed to 1500s. lol.
This season though, I shall make it to D+.
And yes beating Koreans does give you extra "HELL YES!"
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
ArcticVanguard
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States450 Posts
February 28 2011 19:44 GMT
#10
On February 28 2011 23:40 Pholon wrote:
Just hang out in op teamliquid on icc and ask for games/practise. People will happily help you I reckon. Also watching the earlier GomTV BW seasons (with Tasteless commentating) can help a ton in learning the game (my experience)

That's my plan, and are the earlier BW seasons on the gomtv website? Can I view the VODs for free? I want to watch casted BW games but I don't know where to start.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." ~C.S. Lewis
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9526 Posts
February 28 2011 19:51 GMT
#11
On March 01 2011 04:44 ArcticVanguard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2011 23:40 Pholon wrote:
Just hang out in op teamliquid on icc and ask for games/practise. People will happily help you I reckon. Also watching the earlier GomTV BW seasons (with Tasteless commentating) can help a ton in learning the game (my experience)

That's my plan, and are the earlier BW seasons on the gomtv website? Can I view the VODs for free? I want to watch casted BW games but I don't know where to start.

Razer TSL (TSL 1) - http://www.youtube.com/user/nevake?blend=1&ob=4#g/c/38E1EAF964B7B67D
PokerStrategy.com TSL (TSL 2) - http://www.youtube.com/user/nevake?blend=1&ob=4#g/c/9CF0FC22821F19FF

Granted, these are foreigners as opposed to Progamers in GOMtv BW seasons, but still it's English casts where you can learn a lot.
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
IamBach
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1059 Posts
February 28 2011 22:00 GMT
#12
Good luck with BW!! Best game ever IMO. One thing to keep in mind is don't focus too much on builds and winning. It can ruin the fun in the game!! Always try to play race wars or 3v3s or 2v2v2s whenever you get the chance. They are such a blast.
Just listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__lCZeePG48
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
February 28 2011 22:52 GMT
#13
It sounds like you beat someone really bad but still well done, keep at it with BW because it's very tough but rewarding.
apalemorning
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada509 Posts
February 28 2011 23:18 GMT
#14
lol stop now before you get an ulcer! ;-;
immortal/roach is pretty good against stalkers
IamBach
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1059 Posts
March 01 2011 01:06 GMT
#15
On March 01 2011 08:18 apalemorning wrote:
lol stop now before you get an ulcer! ;-;

Hmmm this doesn't sound very constructive. He definitely will not get an ulcer from playing BW.
Just listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__lCZeePG48
lac29
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1485 Posts
March 01 2011 01:19 GMT
#16
I'll practice with you. I play Terran with same userid.
Dhalphir
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1305 Posts
March 01 2011 06:51 GMT
#17
On February 28 2011 20:00 HollowLord wrote:
BW is easily one of the best games ever made. Just be glad you're not protoss and don't have to deal with Dragoon AI. Going from SC2 pathing to Dragoon AI would probably be the most challenging thing in the universe.


its pretty much the reason i didn't follow through very much on my desire to learn BW
Supporting TypeII Gaming - www.typeii.net - TypeReaL, TypePhoeNix, TypeSuN, TypeDBS!!
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1806 Posts
March 01 2011 09:22 GMT
#18
i can still remember my first ever win. i cheesed a zerg on lt hahaha. good times.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
Raii
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Philippines194 Posts
March 01 2011 16:59 GMT
#19
I think I 4pooled my first win on iccup. It was my first game too lol.
Good luck on your broodwar journey!
Interesting comeback. How long did it take you make one?
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