• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:19
CEST 04:19
KST 11:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
Who will win EWC 2025? Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
Corsair Pursuit Micro? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pro gamer house photos Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
BWCL Season 63 Announcement CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
[MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 653 users

[IA] I Am Soooooo Angry with NASL, Kelly, TB - Page 5

Blogs > Hoju
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
DuckSausage
Profile Joined March 2009
United States83 Posts
February 26 2011 10:10 GMT
#81
On February 26 2011 09:18 Gold Fish wrote:
Show nested quote +
The fact is, the GSL casting selection should be based on the quality of casting. Given these and past casting, how could GomTV have made such a bad selection? Is it because she's female, and GomTV wanted to use this fact to appeal to certain demographics; did they want to emulate the Korean casters (who also have a female caster); was there no one else who applied for the position; etc...


I'll reply to this first - One thing is that is important is that she was available to go to South Korea ASAP (Visa for work, being able to go to South Korea in time for the next GSL), etc.

You can't expect someone like <insert commentary of preference here> to cast if they can't go to South Korea + visa for work in time for the next GSL.


They announced that they choose Kelly due to the time restraints and that they're technically still looking for other potential applicants.

Show nested quote +
On February 25 2011 15:12 DuckSausage wrote:
On February 25 2011 05:57 Subversive wrote:
On February 25 2011 05:26 DuckSausage wrote:
Not a fan of this particular post. At least with regard to NASL and Kelly, your satire seems to fall somewhat flat, especially when you're so blatantly side-stepping the community's more legitimate / reasonable concerns. A bit of a straw man argument, if you ask me...

That said, because your logic / argumentation seemed forced, it just wasn't funny or subversive at all.

Anyway, maybe if your arguments were better grounded, it'd be more entertaining and/or funny. As for now, it comes off pretty forced. The above style of humor reminds me a lot of that conservative 'Daily Show' rip-off 1/2 Hour News Hour that crashed and burned so spectacularly.

The "community's" reaction to Kelly has been downright embarrassing. It reveals the sad extent of latent sexism we seem to have grown around here (or perhaps I'm just getting old and gamers were always this immature). In any event, Manifesto7's banning spree in the first live report thread of GSL5 was exactly what was needed. There has been at least a 20:1 ratio of bad/derogatory comments made about Kelly personally or her casting to any legitimate concern. In fact I've yet to read one. I'm just assuming someone intelligent is making some sort of non-abrasive point about her casting abilities.


Well, since you've never seen it, here's the summarized version of the legit argument against Kelly:

1. She's casting for an English audience, and her thick, non-standard accent and frequent grammar errors make it difficult to understand what she's saying.

2. Her in-game analysis seems very, very subpar.

3. She did not compliment Tasteless well, and on top of that, didn't bring anything to the table as far as entertainment or insight.

4. In response to the 'give her more time / you can't judge only one, two, three, x performance' arguments: the GSL is SC2's most professional league, and she's being paid to do this. Ironing out such basic flaws in casting ability should NOT be one of the GSL's priorities. The league's professionalism, in turn, gets taken down a couple notches.

If someone new to SC2 comes and watches her casts and has the same troubles understanding her or her analysis, do you think they would give her the same amount of leeway that you do?

The fact is, the GSL casting selection should be based on the quality of casting. Given these and past casting, how could GomTV have made such a bad selection? Is it because she's female, and GomTV wanted to use this fact to appeal to certain demographics; did they want to emulate the Korean casters (who also have a female caster); was there no one else who applied for the position; etc...

I readily admit there were a lot of sexist comments about her on TL in the aftermath of her casts. BUT, the above concerns are in no way, shape, or form sexist. At all. The sad thing is to watch how so many good-intentioned people on this forum dismiss these concerns as sexist, nit-picky, whiny, whatever. Too much blind white-knighting, if you ask me.

My reply:

1. That's understandable and I'll agree with you on that.

2. While Artosis usually does provide a bit more detailed analysis, she is not bad IMO and I'd say her analysis is adequate. Also remember she can improve just like how the new observer improved.

Also she does have some slips of errors but it may because of she is still new and may kind of be nervous. She may try to be commentating as much as possible (when it's her turn) and may not notice things as well or slip errors sometime.

For example in the Code A Ro3 match (second game of Junwi vs Alicia) she talks about why Alicia isn't taking a second gas (people note he doesn't even have a cybernetics core up) - I think it's probably more of the fact she didn't notice (too nervous or trying too hard to say at least anything) rather than due to ignorance.

Now if you're talking about entertainment in the commentary, yes some may not find her funny or entertaining as others but her SC2 analysis is fine. As for her attempts at jokes,they're almost exactly the same as how Artosis does his jokes (though they may not fit with her as well).

3. See above.
Show nested quote +
the GSL is SC2's most professional league, and she's being paid to do this. Ironing out such basic flaws in casting ability should NOT be one of the GSL's priorities. The league's professionalism, in turn, gets taken down a couple notches.

4. See my first point of this post (that is - Kelly was chosen because she was available to go to South Korea in time for the next GSL and that she had a visa).

Also as for the league's professionalism - Starcraft 2 and the GSL is still in its infancy (I'm not talking about game development [alpha + beta for example] but just the pro scene, GSL, and the state of the game such as balance)

There is a lot of time for growth and development. That includes the game itself of course (with the new maps in GSL + the new two expansions on the way) but it also includes the casters/staff for the GSL.

While some new viewers (and current) of the GSL may be put off by Kelly , GOMTV has plenty of time to build an audience and time to experiment with things. If they don't do something right, they have time to fix it since it's still early.

Overall - for those who do not like Kelly (regardless of the reason), remember that:

1. Artosis + Tasteless were the ones that wanted this (new caster for Code A)

2. Kelly was chosen because she was immediately available and had a working visa.

3. They are still looking for a caster.

4. Kelly can improve.


Good points, all of them.

I just hope that, with all this criticism (both constructive and non-), that either GSL or Kelly can make some revisions, and soon...
Do not want.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
March 14 2011 21:13 GMT
#82
What's the point of all this?
The OP looks like the script for FOX news in starcraft land.
I doubt Kelly is gonna "improve" as her casting style obviously has made her quite popular in the SEA area. Personally I can't stand it, but that's my problem I guess.
Sadly I have to agree with Tyler.. her voice just isn't pleasent to listen to in my opinion.
I hope the best players get to code S, and it'll be all good.

I guess this thread is to, yet again, tell everyone that Team Liquid members are stupid and that haters gonna hate. Nice.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
KingZeter
Profile Joined January 2011
United States19 Posts
March 14 2011 21:21 GMT
#83
On February 25 2011 04:17 samaNo4 wrote:
That's not funny. Yes, you tried, but no. Some of those concerns are real ones for some people. I'm not talking about that stuff with Kelly (people tend to be disgusting sometimes) but more important ones like the showmatch issues or the no-live in NASL, and it's normal, because we all want the best for the things we love. At least, if it was funny or intelligent, it would pass, but it's quite awful. You try to discredit legit arguments by extending them to the absurd, trying to laugh at our worries. Bad job.



Being concerned that the games aren't going to be LIVE, is not, I repeat, is NOT a legitimate concern. ftgrffhbjvgjcyfhxi;k. They are adding production value, something sponsors and future investors look upon as very important. Much more important than being able to look up at the stars and know people are playing that game right at that moment. Use your intellect and suddenly it's not a legitimate concern in the slightest.
No matter what happens, you always have your own parachute.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11349 Posts
March 14 2011 23:02 GMT
#84
On February 26 2011 01:49 Aim Here wrote:
Dammit, IA! You guys were all funny and stuff when you were poking fun at all those Starcraft e-celebrities that I like to laugh at too! That stuff rocked! Now that you're poking fun of the stuff that me and ALL MY FRIENDS have been saying this week, you've jumped the shark! You suck. You're not funny anymore. I'm going to IRC to make Chinglish jokes and kitchen jokes about Kelly now, because THAT'S real comedy.

(Keep up the good work!)


I wondered about this myself. For those so invested in the Kelly 'debate', it may be difficult to see the absurdity of the situation and therefore would not find this humorous.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1d 7h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 169
Livibee 114
ProTech76
StarCraft: Brood War
Sharp 43
Noble 17
Icarus 8
Dota 2
monkeys_forever970
NeuroSwarm109
League of Legends
JimRising 830
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1152
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox630
AZ_Axe171
Other Games
tarik_tv20556
summit1g17176
gofns7659
shahzam694
Maynarde199
ViBE91
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2091
BasetradeTV44
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH236
• davetesta81
• Hupsaiya 76
• Sammyuel 45
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21146
League of Legends
• Rush1129
• Stunt275
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
1d 7h
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
2 days
Esports World Cup
3 days
Esports World Cup
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.