• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:28
CET 21:28
KST 05:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !9Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1833 users

[IA] I Am Soooooo Angry with NASL, Kelly, TB - Page 5

Blogs > Hoju
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
DuckSausage
Profile Joined March 2009
United States83 Posts
February 26 2011 10:10 GMT
#81
On February 26 2011 09:18 Gold Fish wrote:
Show nested quote +
The fact is, the GSL casting selection should be based on the quality of casting. Given these and past casting, how could GomTV have made such a bad selection? Is it because she's female, and GomTV wanted to use this fact to appeal to certain demographics; did they want to emulate the Korean casters (who also have a female caster); was there no one else who applied for the position; etc...


I'll reply to this first - One thing is that is important is that she was available to go to South Korea ASAP (Visa for work, being able to go to South Korea in time for the next GSL), etc.

You can't expect someone like <insert commentary of preference here> to cast if they can't go to South Korea + visa for work in time for the next GSL.


They announced that they choose Kelly due to the time restraints and that they're technically still looking for other potential applicants.

Show nested quote +
On February 25 2011 15:12 DuckSausage wrote:
On February 25 2011 05:57 Subversive wrote:
On February 25 2011 05:26 DuckSausage wrote:
Not a fan of this particular post. At least with regard to NASL and Kelly, your satire seems to fall somewhat flat, especially when you're so blatantly side-stepping the community's more legitimate / reasonable concerns. A bit of a straw man argument, if you ask me...

That said, because your logic / argumentation seemed forced, it just wasn't funny or subversive at all.

Anyway, maybe if your arguments were better grounded, it'd be more entertaining and/or funny. As for now, it comes off pretty forced. The above style of humor reminds me a lot of that conservative 'Daily Show' rip-off 1/2 Hour News Hour that crashed and burned so spectacularly.

The "community's" reaction to Kelly has been downright embarrassing. It reveals the sad extent of latent sexism we seem to have grown around here (or perhaps I'm just getting old and gamers were always this immature). In any event, Manifesto7's banning spree in the first live report thread of GSL5 was exactly what was needed. There has been at least a 20:1 ratio of bad/derogatory comments made about Kelly personally or her casting to any legitimate concern. In fact I've yet to read one. I'm just assuming someone intelligent is making some sort of non-abrasive point about her casting abilities.


Well, since you've never seen it, here's the summarized version of the legit argument against Kelly:

1. She's casting for an English audience, and her thick, non-standard accent and frequent grammar errors make it difficult to understand what she's saying.

2. Her in-game analysis seems very, very subpar.

3. She did not compliment Tasteless well, and on top of that, didn't bring anything to the table as far as entertainment or insight.

4. In response to the 'give her more time / you can't judge only one, two, three, x performance' arguments: the GSL is SC2's most professional league, and she's being paid to do this. Ironing out such basic flaws in casting ability should NOT be one of the GSL's priorities. The league's professionalism, in turn, gets taken down a couple notches.

If someone new to SC2 comes and watches her casts and has the same troubles understanding her or her analysis, do you think they would give her the same amount of leeway that you do?

The fact is, the GSL casting selection should be based on the quality of casting. Given these and past casting, how could GomTV have made such a bad selection? Is it because she's female, and GomTV wanted to use this fact to appeal to certain demographics; did they want to emulate the Korean casters (who also have a female caster); was there no one else who applied for the position; etc...

I readily admit there were a lot of sexist comments about her on TL in the aftermath of her casts. BUT, the above concerns are in no way, shape, or form sexist. At all. The sad thing is to watch how so many good-intentioned people on this forum dismiss these concerns as sexist, nit-picky, whiny, whatever. Too much blind white-knighting, if you ask me.

My reply:

1. That's understandable and I'll agree with you on that.

2. While Artosis usually does provide a bit more detailed analysis, she is not bad IMO and I'd say her analysis is adequate. Also remember she can improve just like how the new observer improved.

Also she does have some slips of errors but it may because of she is still new and may kind of be nervous. She may try to be commentating as much as possible (when it's her turn) and may not notice things as well or slip errors sometime.

For example in the Code A Ro3 match (second game of Junwi vs Alicia) she talks about why Alicia isn't taking a second gas (people note he doesn't even have a cybernetics core up) - I think it's probably more of the fact she didn't notice (too nervous or trying too hard to say at least anything) rather than due to ignorance.

Now if you're talking about entertainment in the commentary, yes some may not find her funny or entertaining as others but her SC2 analysis is fine. As for her attempts at jokes,they're almost exactly the same as how Artosis does his jokes (though they may not fit with her as well).

3. See above.
Show nested quote +
the GSL is SC2's most professional league, and she's being paid to do this. Ironing out such basic flaws in casting ability should NOT be one of the GSL's priorities. The league's professionalism, in turn, gets taken down a couple notches.

4. See my first point of this post (that is - Kelly was chosen because she was available to go to South Korea in time for the next GSL and that she had a visa).

Also as for the league's professionalism - Starcraft 2 and the GSL is still in its infancy (I'm not talking about game development [alpha + beta for example] but just the pro scene, GSL, and the state of the game such as balance)

There is a lot of time for growth and development. That includes the game itself of course (with the new maps in GSL + the new two expansions on the way) but it also includes the casters/staff for the GSL.

While some new viewers (and current) of the GSL may be put off by Kelly , GOMTV has plenty of time to build an audience and time to experiment with things. If they don't do something right, they have time to fix it since it's still early.

Overall - for those who do not like Kelly (regardless of the reason), remember that:

1. Artosis + Tasteless were the ones that wanted this (new caster for Code A)

2. Kelly was chosen because she was immediately available and had a working visa.

3. They are still looking for a caster.

4. Kelly can improve.


Good points, all of them.

I just hope that, with all this criticism (both constructive and non-), that either GSL or Kelly can make some revisions, and soon...
Do not want.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
March 14 2011 21:13 GMT
#82
What's the point of all this?
The OP looks like the script for FOX news in starcraft land.
I doubt Kelly is gonna "improve" as her casting style obviously has made her quite popular in the SEA area. Personally I can't stand it, but that's my problem I guess.
Sadly I have to agree with Tyler.. her voice just isn't pleasent to listen to in my opinion.
I hope the best players get to code S, and it'll be all good.

I guess this thread is to, yet again, tell everyone that Team Liquid members are stupid and that haters gonna hate. Nice.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
KingZeter
Profile Joined January 2011
United States19 Posts
March 14 2011 21:21 GMT
#83
On February 25 2011 04:17 samaNo4 wrote:
That's not funny. Yes, you tried, but no. Some of those concerns are real ones for some people. I'm not talking about that stuff with Kelly (people tend to be disgusting sometimes) but more important ones like the showmatch issues or the no-live in NASL, and it's normal, because we all want the best for the things we love. At least, if it was funny or intelligent, it would pass, but it's quite awful. You try to discredit legit arguments by extending them to the absurd, trying to laugh at our worries. Bad job.



Being concerned that the games aren't going to be LIVE, is not, I repeat, is NOT a legitimate concern. ftgrffhbjvgjcyfhxi;k. They are adding production value, something sponsors and future investors look upon as very important. Much more important than being able to look up at the stars and know people are playing that game right at that moment. Use your intellect and suddenly it's not a legitimate concern in the slightest.
No matter what happens, you always have your own parachute.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11379 Posts
March 14 2011 23:02 GMT
#84
On February 26 2011 01:49 Aim Here wrote:
Dammit, IA! You guys were all funny and stuff when you were poking fun at all those Starcraft e-celebrities that I like to laugh at too! That stuff rocked! Now that you're poking fun of the stuff that me and ALL MY FRIENDS have been saying this week, you've jumped the shark! You suck. You're not funny anymore. I'm going to IRC to make Chinglish jokes and kitchen jokes about Kelly now, because THAT'S real comedy.

(Keep up the good work!)


I wondered about this myself. For those so invested in the Kelly 'debate', it may be difficult to see the absurdity of the situation and therefore would not find this humorous.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL 21
20:00
RO8 - Day 3
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
ZZZero.O204
LiquipediaDiscussion
Ladder Legends
19:00
WWG Amateur Showdown
davetesta47
Liquipedia
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
16:55
FSL teamleague FINALS ASHvsPTB
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
White-Ra 413
ProTech141
BRAT_OK 50
StarCraft: Brood War
EffOrt 564
Zeus 299
ZZZero.O 204
ggaemo 171
firebathero 116
Shuttle 76
Mong 56
Stormgate
BeoMulf130
Dota 2
febbydoto83
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m1361
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor399
Other Games
Grubby4050
FrodaN1692
Beastyqt801
hungrybox627
B2W.Neo409
ToD161
XaKoH 98
Fuzer 92
Trikslyr59
Chillindude23
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick857
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 72
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1426
• Shiphtur207
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
13h 32m
Ladder Legends
20h 32m
BSL 21
23h 32m
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Wardi Open
1d 15h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 20h
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.