EPTTomten and Tomten
Anden and Anden
Stegen and Stegen
))))))[H] Learning Swedish - Page 2
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mapthesoul
Trinidad/Tobago429 Posts
Tomten and Tomten Anden and Anden Stegen and Stegen )))))) | ||
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ShaEreHugo
Sweden47 Posts
There is no logic in the language! There are few rules about the different spellings. For example, there are several different spellings for the sound "sh" in for example stjäla = steal. stjäla = steal skjorta = shirt sjunka = sink There are no logic reasons behind the way we spell, which makes it extremely hard to learn. The only way is to learn everything by heart, we rarely have any rules. Another example is when we talk about nouns in swedish. A train = Ett tåg. There is no logic reason when we should use "en" or "ett". A train = ett tåg A bus = en buss A car = en bil One would think that since all of the above examples are vehicles, they might be in the same category, and should have either "en" or "ett". But no. You simply have to learn it by heart. Which makes it very difficult. So I advice you to not learn swedish, its simply too hard. [Edit]: I may sound too harsch. All I'm trying to say is, it's very hard, but if you got the will, I wish you good luck! Please post any questions you have, im here to help! : ) | ||
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
On February 10 2011 06:18 ShaEreHugo wrote: We have plenty of rules you just never bothered to learn them.Swedish is way too hard for you to learn. There is no logic in the language! There are few rules about the different spellings. For example, there are several different spellings for the sound "sh" in for example stjäla = steal. stjäla = steal skjorta = shirt sjunka = sink There are no logic reasons behind the way we spell, which makes it extremely hard to learn. The only way is to learn everything by heart, we rarely have any rules. Another example is when we talk about nouns in swedish. A train = Ett tåg. There is no logic reason when we should use "en" or "ett". A train = ett tåg A bus = en buss A car = en bil One would think that since all of the above examples are vehicles, they might be in the same category, and should have either "en" or "ett". But no. You simply have to learn it by heart. Which makes it very difficult. So I advice you to not learn swedish, its simply too hard. [Edit]: I may sound too harsch. All I'm trying to say is, it's very hard, but if you got the will, I wish you good luck! Please post any questions you have, im here to help! : ) Learning Swedish is easier for English speakers because we use the same toolset and share alot of words due to our ancestry. It would be much harder to learn say chinese or zulu. | ||
Empyrean
16992 Posts
As for the declination of en vs. ett words...it can't be worse than declining in Latin, so I'm not too worried on that front. When I was learning French, I had to learn the genders of all the nouns, so I'd imagine it's similar. As for memorization in general, I can read and write Chinese, which is probably one of the least accessible languages for foreigners to learn (although I'm a native speaker, so I guess it was easier since I grew up with it). Something I'm a little bit worried about, though, are all the grammar rules regarding plural endings and such. That, and being able to understand spoken Swedish (much harder than looking at Swedish text). I've actually found that Swedish is more internally consistent than many languages. Way more logical than English is, at least. | ||
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
On February 10 2011 06:24 Empyrean wrote: Morphologically, though, the language is quite similar to English since both are Germanic. I actually find that word order and sentence syntax is very similar to English. As for the declination of en vs. ett words...it can't be worse than declining in Latin, so I'm not too worried on that front. When I was learning French, I had to learn the genders of all the nouns, so I'd imagine it's similar. As for memorization in general, I can read and write Chinese, which is probably one of the least accessible languages for foreigners to learn (although I'm a native speaker, so I guess it was easier since I grew up with it). Something I'm a little bit worried about, though, are all the grammar rules regarding plural endings and such. That, and being able to understand spoken Swedish (much harder than looking at Swedish text). I've actually found that Swedish is more internally consistent than many languages. Way more logical than English is, at least. Indeed it is, people just need to realise that English speakers will always have another way of pronouncing the words while still being very easy to understand for example alot of rules can simply be disregarded as accent. To take your example. Vinter you say Veenter which is fine but as a Swede would say it, it would be more like Win but with a hard V instead of the soft W and the ter part would have a err (rolling) sound rather than the arr sound (for R) ie it is created with the tongue in the front of the mouth rather than in the back like it is in English. There are a ton of rules for shit like that but those are completly useless unless you are desperate to sound Swedish. So yea there are rules to learn and harder words than others. The only real hard part (that I've heard from my friends comming here from the UK) is getting the rythm down in the speech pattern. | ||
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ShaEreHugo
Sweden47 Posts
On February 10 2011 06:23 Hynda wrote: We have plenty of rules you just never bothered to learn them. Learning Swedish is easier for English speakers because we use the same toolset and share alot of words due to our ancestry. It would be much harder to learn say chinese or zulu. Yes, I understand Swedish is a lot easier to learn if you compare it to, say, Chinese or Zulu. But if you compare it to German or French I would say from experience, Swedish is a lot harder. In German, everything is logical. Everything, there are always rules which help you greatly when you learn it. In Swedish there doesnt exist rules for everything, which simply makes it harder for people to learn it who are not genuine to the language. They have to either learn every word by heart or get corrected each time they say something wrong, if they would live here for a year or two. Simply put, German is easier since there are more rules than in Swedish. I'm not denying the fact that there are rules in Swedish. There are, just less, and more illogical. You can learn Swedish, it's just hard. | ||
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
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ShaEreHugo
Sweden47 Posts
On February 10 2011 06:24 Empyrean wrote: Morphologically, though, the language is quite similar to English since both are Germanic. I actually find that word order and sentence syntax is very similar to English when I'm, say, browsing Swedish wikipedia and trying to pick things up (I actually "understand" more than I would've thought coming into it, actually). As for the declination of en vs. ett words...it can't be worse than declining in Latin, so I'm not too worried on that front. When I was learning French, I had to learn the genders of all the nouns, so I'd imagine it's similar. As for memorization in general, I can read and write Chinese, which is probably one of the least accessible languages for foreigners to learn (although I'm a native speaker, so I guess it was easier since I grew up with it). Something I'm a little bit worried about, though, are all the grammar rules regarding plural endings and such. That, and being able to understand spoken Swedish (much harder than looking at Swedish text). I've actually found that Swedish is more internally consistent than many languages. Way more logical than English is, at least. I guess I might have exaggurated how hard Swedish was. There are many words that are similar. For example the word "window" comes from Old Norse "vindöga" which is directly translated to wind eye. Back then it was the word for window which is now "fönster", but as the german influcences grew we replaced "vindöga" with the german word for window which is "Fenster". So, yes, there are many words which comes from the same place. The only worry I have is, as you said, the plural endings and when we use "en" or "ett" A train = Ett tåg Two trains = Två tåg The trains = Tågen A bus = En buss Two busses = Två bussar The busses = Bussarna A car = En bil Two cars = Två bilar The cars = Bilarna As I said, I might have exaggurated how hard it actually is. But I still think there are some illogical rules which are hard to learn. | ||
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Kanin
75 Posts
Every single language on the planet has lots of "illogical rules" Yours is not special. Wanna know what makes Swedish difficult? It's not the grammar, or the spelling, or even the pronunciation. It's the difficulty in acquiring lots of decent Swedish materials (books and films) and speakers (They just switch to English if they hear even a hint of a foreign accent) | ||
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
On February 10 2011 06:59 Kanin wrote: No one has any right to say that their native language is hard, because they never had to learn it. Every single language on the planet has lots of "illogical rules" Yours is not special. Wanna know what makes Swedish difficult? It's not the grammar, or the spelling, or even the pronunciation. It's the difficulty in acquiring lots of decent Swedish materials (books and films) and speakers (They just switch to English if they hear even a hint of a foreign accent) This is the internet finding speakers is easy, and there are alot of books if you just know where to look. So all in all Swedish is piss easy  | ||
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SolHeiM
Sweden1264 Posts
On February 10 2011 06:59 Kanin wrote: No one has any right to say that their native language is hard, because they never had to learn it. Of course you had to learn your native tongue. Just because you grow up speaking something doesn't mean you've mastered it. Why do we still have grammar classes in school when we're little? It's because we haven't fully mastered the language and you have to supplicate what you already know. | ||
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Elegy
United States1629 Posts
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lgd-haze
Sweden547 Posts
On February 10 2011 07:06 Elegy wrote: I'm curious, although I know Swedish and Norwegian are relatively mutually intelligible (Danish as well), does that apply to foreigners learning one of those languages? For example, if a Swede can understand Danish and Norwegian as a native speaker, would an American with Swedish as a second language also be able to understand the other languages, perhaps to the same extent as his Swedish level? Interesting question. Honestly I doubt it, but I would love to hear someone with more insight on this to answer. | ||
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
On February 10 2011 07:06 Elegy wrote: Not from my experience with the British. I think when it comes to Danish even Swedish people have a hard time following them unless they articulate. When it comes to writing Danish and Norweigian is alot closer than Swedish is to any of them. While they can ofcourse understand Norweigian if they try most of my friends are at a significantly lower level than their Swedish.I'm curious, although I know Swedish and Norwegian are relatively mutually intelligible (Danish as well), does that apply to foreigners learning one of those languages? For example, if a Swede can understand Danish and Norwegian as a native speaker, would an American with Swedish as a second language also be able to understand the other languages, perhaps to the same extent as his Swedish level? | ||
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ShaEreHugo
Sweden47 Posts
On February 10 2011 06:59 Kanin wrote: No one has any right to say that their native language is hard, because they never had to learn it. You have to be objective, just because I am a native speaker doesnt mean I have no say. I have many friends who are not native swedish speakers and even though they have lived here for the greatest part of their life, they still have difficulty between some of my examples, even I have! In swedish, there are simply stuff that you have to learn by being corrected by other people, or to learn every word by heart. | ||
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Empyrean
16992 Posts
On February 10 2011 07:27 ShaEreHugo wrote: You have to be objective, just because I am a native speaker doesnt mean I have no say. I have many friends who are not native swedish speakers and even though they have lived here for the greatest part of their life, they still have difficulty between some of my examples, even I have! In swedish, there are simply stuff that you have to learn by being corrected by other people, or to learn every word by heart. From your experience, is it much easier for your German friends to learn Swedish than your French friends? In any case, Swedish is much more similar to English than French or Spanish is to English. | ||
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Cuddle
Sweden1345 Posts
On February 10 2011 06:23 Hynda wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 10 2011 06:18 ShaEreHugo wrote: We have plenty of rules you just never bothered to learn them.Swedish is way too hard for you to learn. There is no logic in the language! There are few rules about the different spellings. For example, there are several different spellings for the sound "sh" in for example stjäla = steal. stjäla = steal skjorta = shirt sjunka = sink There are no logic reasons behind the way we spell, which makes it extremely hard to learn. The only way is to learn everything by heart, we rarely have any rules. Another example is when we talk about nouns in swedish. A train = Ett tåg. There is no logic reason when we should use "en" or "ett". A train = ett tåg A bus = en buss A car = en bil One would think that since all of the above examples are vehicles, they might be in the same category, and should have either "en" or "ett". But no. You simply have to learn it by heart. Which makes it very difficult. So I advice you to not learn swedish, its simply too hard. [Edit]: I may sound too harsch. All I'm trying to say is, it's very hard, but if you got the will, I wish you good luck! Please post any questions you have, im here to help! : ) Learning Swedish is easier for English speakers because we use the same toolset and share alot of words due to our ancestry. It would be much harder to learn say chinese or zulu. Again, this is quite true. It is a rather ill-favoured rumor among swedes that swedish is so difficult to learn because "there are no rules" and you have to learn things by heart. This is of course complete bullocks and is most often expressed by people who have never paid much attention to grammar. If anything, Swedish has a rather simple grammar but a very difficult phonetic flora. Which is also, if I understand correctly, what Empyrean needs help with. Admittedly, swedish has problems with gender designation of words (which in turn rule if it is called "en båt" or "ett båt" (A boat). The former being the correct one stems from "båt" being of the "utrum" gender.) mainly because swedish used to have 4 genders but switched to only 2 (utrum and neutrum) leading to a reclassification and a few cases where the "rules" do not work. But Swedish shares this problem with oh so many languages (i.e. the German Die/Der/Das) Honestly, the correct gender is not all that important if all you're looking to do is understand/make yourself understood. As for Norwegian/Danish, all I can say is that I can understand Norwegian perfectly fine but Danish sounds like complete jibberish to me. Reading works decent for danish and i have no problem at all with reading Norwegian. I live in northern Sweden and I've heard that it's quite the opposite for people who live in southern Sweden. | ||
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Danjoh
Sweden405 Posts
On February 09 2011 16:26 Empyrean wrote: Thanks for the help everyone. I currently listen to Klartext, which is supposedly a daily podcast done in simple Swedish. I actually can't understand pretty much 99% of it, but it's still useful to listen to the language, I think. Ah yea, Klartext, I used to listen to that on the radio on my way home from work (now I have different work hours and listen to finnish news instead). At one point, there was a woman with a foreign accent and a lisp reading the news on Klartext, but I think they replaced her. But yea, that should be a good source of learning, since they tend to talk slow, clear, and explain difficult (everyday) terms in simpler words. edit: On February 10 2011 18:56 Cuddle wrote: As for Norwegian/Danish, all I can say is that I can understand Norwegian perfectly fine but Danish sounds like complete jibberish to me. Reading works decent for danish and i have no problem at all with reading Norwegian. I live in northern Sweden and I've heard that it's quite the opposite for people who live in southern Sweden. I'm also from north of sweden, and have thesame problem, danish just sounds like a bunch of mumbling, while norwegian is very understandable, but with a few words that sound like a swedish word, have a completely different meaning. I've been told that "En rar tös" ("a sweet little girl" in swedish) does not mean thesame in norwegian! =) On February 10 2011 06:31 Hynda wrote: Indeed it is, people just need to realise that English speakers will always have another way of pronouncing the words while still being very easy to understand for example alot of rules can simply be disregarded as accent. To take your example. Vinter you say Veenter which is fine but as a Swede would say it, it would be more like Win but with a hard V instead of the soft W and the ter part would have a err (rolling) sound rather than the arr sound (for R) ie it is created with the tongue in the front of the mouth rather than in the back like it is in English. There are a ton of rules for shit like that but those are completly useless unless you are desperate to sound Swedish. So yea there are rules to learn and harder words than others. The only real hard part (that I've heard from my friends comming here from the UK) is getting the rythm down in the speech pattern. "R" in swedish is pronounced way different depending on if you're from the south or from the north. When someone from Skåne pronounces something with R, I can barely hear it at all, since form it with the back of their tongue. + Show Spoiler [Scandinavia and the World Comic] + ![[image loading]](http://satwcomic.com/art/language-lesson.jpg) | ||
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DND_Enkil
Sweden598 Posts
On February 09 2011 16:03 Empyrean wrote: What about words like "besviken"? Is it "bes-vi-ken"? Or "genomsnitt"? Is it "ge-nom-snitt"? Or "påtaglig"? Is it "på-tag-lig"? Or "meddelande"? Is it "med-de-lan-de"? Is that even the correct number of syllables? Speaking of words like genomsnitt, are there any other "special" rules on pronunciation (for example, the g turning into a y sound)? <_<...learning new languages is hard  Sure there are some rules for it somewhere but do not know where, biggest tip i can give you is to keep www.sr.se (swedish radio) on in the background at all times when you are not doing anything. Try repeating words and sentences you hear. When a friend needed to learn French asap that is the tip he got and it worked wonders, he had french radio on while playing, cooking, doing homework etc and the speed at wich he picked up pronounciation was stunning. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
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