EPTPretentious Writer's Rant - Page 4
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Gatsbi
United States1134 Posts
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Entertaining
Canada793 Posts
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Sero
United States692 Posts
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Herculix
United States946 Posts
when i smell a grammar nazi like you afoot, i get even worse: like idk y u guys even care so much cuz im just writin how i wanna write n if u guys dont like it mb u should get dat stick out of ur ass u no wut im sayin? juz mind ur own biznez cuz i do wut da fuck i wanna do n idgaf about u lil grammer nerds, u can read wut im writin newayz so just stfu | ||
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sparkyk24
49 Posts
It isn't wrong to end a sentence in a preposition. At least, it isn't always wrong. "Where are you at?" Bad! "Where you at: DEATH (The famous example): "That is something that I will not put up with!" Good! You don't have to say, "That's exactly the sort of thing up with which I will not put!" | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
That's why I don't really use my cellphone all that much anymore. P.S. I'm a writer too. | ||
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Seltsam
United States343 Posts
you guys realize that there's a difference between getting annoyed by something and correcting everyone, right? Saying things are annoying in a blog that I've clearly labeled as a rant is not the same as going around correcting everyone. In fact, the very reason I felt like I needed to vent was because I don't correct people, and my frustrations stay bottled up. Over a long enough period of time, I get a little overwhelmed by that frustration and feel the need to vent. Apparently that's unacceptable to some people. | ||
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Asjo
Denmark664 Posts
On December 30 2010 02:53 mOnion wrote: here's one that bugs the hell out of me: at grocery stores the "10 items or less" register always makes me rage a little bit inside. this is a less common but pretty annoying one. it should be "10 items or fewer as to match the fact that the number 10 is countable, therefore "fewer" should be used, as opposed to something that is NOT countable such as "he is less handsome" not "he is fewer handsome". also the complaints you mention aren't specific to a writing major, just anyone who paid attention in english in high school. I'm a bit of a pedant as well, and this doesn't actually bother me. "Or less" obviously sounds better. It could easily be argued to read as "10 items or less than that amount", with amount not being used as something countable, but simple referring to a small amount in size. It's interesting to read about the comma before and in recital sentences. I was definitely always under the impression that we were taught British English in Denmark, but I remember that it was pointed out to us a couple of times that we were reminded to put the comma before "and" since we don't do that in Danish. Maybe those teachers had read a few too many American texts  ... actually, I recall as I'm writing this, one grammar book mentioned it was an American/English thing (a book we used during my Bachelor degree in communication), so apparently the teacher we had then told us that since Americans did it, it was acceptable  I have always felt I have a really good grasp on English, but I'm becoming more and more aware that I don't. When I become an author, I'm still not sure whether to write in English or Danish, and I have started reading more books in English to get used to more everyday phrases, expressions and words. I actually noted down a few very interesting examples about commas that puzzled me and that I was planning to have a talk with the TL community about, however, I do not have those at my disposal right now. My problem is, I think, that I have relied on a very strong intuition when it comes to language, and it has always served me well - that is, up until some years ago, and ever since then I have too often been in doubt. Thinking in rules might help, but I really enjoy being able to understand things more intuitively. Obviously, by reading more books in English, I will figure out the last kinks that still haunt me about the English comma. I'm not sure whether I'll ever avoid bad formulations and typos that have stuck with me from a young age. They always sneak in when I'm typing as I think, and even though I will notice it instantly when correcting (which I rarely do), I still write "its"/"it's" wrong, most often where I use "it's" for possessive since I write it so often it's engrained in my fingers. And there are many verbs that I use incorrectly, since I have been using the internet from a young age, and back then I used a lot of words that I didn't really know the meaning of, but had only been able to guess at from the context in which they appeared. I'm sure I still do a mean expressive and poetic English language (see how I butchered that formulation :D), though, and I have no doubt that I could do well in that way. As a perfectionist, things like this just easily grabs my attention. Certainly feels wrong not to express myself as clearly as I would like due to bad formulations or silly errors. And yes, I do worry about language use deteriorating as well, and I will react, sometimes in a spiteful manner, but I'm not really that pretentions about it. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
at grocery stores the "10 items or less" register always makes me rage a little bit inside. this is a less common but pretty annoying one. it should be "10 items or fewer as to match the fact that the number 10 is countable, therefore "fewer" should be used, as opposed to something that is NOT countable such as "he is less handsome" not "he is fewer handsome". Is your argument that "less" can't also mean "fewer" based on the fact that "fewer" can't mean less? What about when we say 5 is less than 10. Or 5<10. When do we ever say 5 is fewer than 10? "Fewer" is kind of an awkward, bumbling word that no one uses anymore because it sounds like overly formal. | ||
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TheGreatWhiteHope_
United States335 Posts
On December 30 2010 02:31 Seltsam wrote: I'll start by mentioning a couple of things about myself. First, I am a student of both education and writing. Second, I do a lot of freelance work, including professional editing and writing for various clients. Third, I believe in the importance of language and the importance of strong fundamental skills in regards to language, meaning a solid understanding of grammar, proper punctuation, and basic diction. Fourth, I believe that everyone is capable of understanding these concepts, as they are quite easy to grasp. Fifth, I absolutely hate that most people don't have the understanding I've described. I really, really hate it -- like, a lot. I'll start by mentioning a couple of things about myself. First, I am a college football player and have been playing various sports throughout my life. Second, I perform a lot of physical activity on a daily basis purely for enjoyment. Third, I believe in the importance of regular exercise and physical activity due to its numerous health benefits. Fourth, I believe that everyone is capable of performing at least some level of physical activity throughout their life, as it requires just a little dedication and time. Fifth, I absolutely hate that most people eat poorly and fail to exercise on a regular basis. I really, really hate it -- like, a lot. Pretty much, don't hate on people because they do not value the same things you hold in such high regard. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Asjo
Denmark664 Posts
On December 30 2010 08:20 Chef wrote: Is your argument that "less" can't also mean "fewer" based on the fact that "fewer" can't mean less? What about when we say 5 is less than 10. Or 5<10. When do we ever say 5 is fewer than 10? "Fewer" is kind of an awkward, bumbling word that no one uses anymore because it sounds like shit. That's not really a good example, though, since the formulations that you mention here would usually refer to amount, not the numbers of an item. For instance, when we say "10 kg > 5 kg" or that five kilos is less than ten kilo, then were are not saying that the amount of kilos is less, but that one amount, when you compare the two, is less. And that is a common problem in language: that expressions commonly used in one way come to saturate other similar expressions that are not actually related. Of course, you can see that I argue in my post above that the example of "10 items or less" is ambiguous, and we cannot really judge the grammar of it until we know what it means to express. It would seem that it's correctly expressed, but simply carried another implicit meaning that it is pretty much that same as that it would have if it was used differently. Or you could expect that they simply don't care, and just want something catchy, accepting the fact that language just boils down to what's common practice. By the way, the common practice thing: In the Danish Counter-Strike scene (almost ten years back, I reckon), everyone was the word "event" occurred more frequently than our own Danish alternative since everyone was reading international community sites. People said "et event" (et/en = Danish specific articles), which would be the natural way to adopt the word from English (if you're a Dane, you will know whether to put "et" or "en" as the article"). However, the biggest Danish community site, XplayN, started using "en event", which was based on an old-fashioned adoptation of the word, where it carried a different meaning. Saying "en event" sounded absolutely horrible and didn't make much sense, but the guy who started it was a frequent news writer on the site, and simply settled the argument by referring to an official state-run dictionary (by the council/authority who offcially decide correct language use), which hadn't yet picked up on this adaptation of the word from modern English, but still listed the old adaptation of the word. This ended up with most of the Danish Counter-Strike community actually using "en event" today, and it has now been established as the best practise, it seems. Sadly, that is - it would have been nice if "et event" could have been established as common practice first - now we have another confusing exception in our already quite difficult Danish language. In general, all the words that people mix into the daily language from English these days causes me a bit of stress. RiB: Poor example as well :D ... How much people exercise doesn't affect you in as direct a fashion as language use does, so obviously it's less natural to "hate on". That said, all this hating on things seems kind of petty, but I'm sure that more often than not, people just use it communicatively and not expressively. I don't believe that people have such strong feelings of dislike, but it's just easier to express as something you "hate", so the becomes a bit inflated. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
OTOH I do agree with the points brought up. I hate when people intentionally disregard grammar as unimportant. Simple mistakes are excusable but should not be the norm. At least put some effort into educating yourself right? English is my second language and I probably have a better understanding of it then people who have only known English. although normally i would disregard some rules because i am a little bit lazier. i think as long as you get sentence structure, punctuation, and spelling right a lot of other stuff can be forgiven because i can still discern and understand what you are trying to communicate. | ||
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stochastic
United States16 Posts
it enrages me that i can't stop noticing it | ||
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uberMatt
Canada659 Posts
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
On December 30 2010 02:40 hifriend wrote: I knew the difference by the time I was 12 but I still find myself making the mistake when I'm typing something in a rush every once in a while.  edit: regarding their/they're/there Then again, as swedes it's hardly our native tongue. | ||
Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
But there are so many errors that could be so easily avoided that it just blows my mind Look at all the unneeded words here. 'So many' 'so easily' 'just blows' all within a single phrase, phew. I'm exhausted before getting to the meat of the paragraph. The rampant wide-spread ignorance makes me feel somewhat despondent a lot of times, and it's made even worse when someone says something to the effect of "who cares?" to me. Damn. Pretentious shouldn't mean tedious, this whole statement meanders around with qualifying words "somewhat" "someone says something" and a redundant "to me" (its implied). The argument it makes is buried for no reason. Labeling this as a rant is fine, but why would I read it when its taxing to figure out what you're mad about? Grammar mistakes are not a big deal, editors exist to find them when it matters. Unfocused writing will kill a piece before it can be brought to the table. Funny, because its every bit as easy to stop using adverbs as making sure the correct form of your is in place. Elements of Style sums up well. Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts. This requires not that the writer make all his sentences short, or that he avoid all detail and treat his subjects only in outline, but that every word tell. | ||
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XeliN
United Kingdom1755 Posts
Language is a no more set in stone to any criteria of correctness than music or humour. Grammar is often neccesary in order to make your meaning clear, but there is no law in regards to grammar that we must all adhere. And some of the greatest works of literature would be stripped of their beauty if the elements of style were to be taken as anything more than a helpful guideline on a subject that is as open to flair, imagination and creativity as art. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
On December 30 2010 09:00 uberMatt wrote: is there a legitimate argument for anal retentiveness about the finer points of english grammar? it just seems like intellectual wank to me, who the fuck cares If the sentence is ambiguous, or needlessly difficult to parse, then the sentence is poorly constructed. If the sentence is clear and specific, but violates some derpy grammatic decree, then the sentence is solid. | ||
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