• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:21
CEST 18:21
KST 01:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL50Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?12FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event16Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL Unit and Spell Similarities Help: rep cant save Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 766 users

[Q]To graphical designers

Blogs > unkkz
Post a Reply
unkkz
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Norway2196 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 17:14:14
December 06 2010 17:11 GMT
#1
I know there are some graphical designers lurking on TL but also posting. I am a graphical design/motion graphics student in my second year and i get approached with offers of doing some work from time to time. The thing is i dont know what sort of deadlines and pay is considered "reasonable" and i constantly hear about people screwing designers over in this business.

So i'm wondering about this project, some guy wants a design for a board game, but not just a tiny thing he wants the entire board game to be designed. Board game box, 120 cards with different motive on each, 5 game pieces, a manual and the gameboard itself. In other words, he wants the entire thing designed and the things he has come up with himself are a few sloppy concept sketches. For this job i'd be paid 400 euros, and i'd have until Jan 11, which due to holidays i would say is a 14 day deadline.

My gripe with this: This sounds like tons of work and the pay sounds terrible, not to mention a 14 day deadline seems short for such a huge job. So im asking what would you charge for this, and how much time would be considered "normal" for someone to need for something like this?

Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 17:15:28
December 06 2010 17:14 GMT
#2
try to negotiate a better price with him. it really depends on how much he is willing to spend as much as how much your willing to do it for,

best advice i can give you is never sell yourself short.
if u think u can spend the time on something else more profitable do it,
BroOd
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Austin10831 Posts
December 06 2010 17:18 GMT
#3
That sounds like a horrible wage for what you'd be doing. From your description, the client seems pretty unprofessional. Is he a student hiring you to do a school project for him or something? I can't imagine someone designing a board game and then just asking someone to whip the whole thing up in two weeks.
ModeratorSIRL and JLIG.
SpoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 17:32:15
December 06 2010 17:23 GMT
#4
Don't think of your work in terms of 'What do others get paid for this same kind of thing?', think of it in terms of 'What is my time worth?, What is the amount of work needed for this?, How hard will I have to work to complete this? , What is the cost of my supplies?' etc. Then you can give yourself some kind of mental idea even before you get offers and confidently argue pay when opportunities arise. Also what Coag said about how much they are willing to spend, usually they give you the low end estimate, sell your product (yourself) as well as you can.

Do a little mental exercise, think of some random shit around your house imagine the questions I gave above, give a dollar value on what it would take for you to re/create that design.

BoT, 400$ sounds really skimp for such a daunting task, but I think it also depends how much you need money and how much free time you have. If you don't need much money and have not much free time, then i'd say $500-600 would be more realistic for me.

PS- I'm not a graphic designer but I took some classes in college to be one, and I've done a few things here and there for people. Also, keep a time of how much you work. Then when the job is done you can see your hourly rate and decide if that sounds good/bad for you for next time.
A man is what he thinks about all day long.
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9497 Posts
December 06 2010 17:29 GMT
#5
I bet that guy is one of those "customer is always right" people with no respect whatsoever at people working for him. I suggest cranking up the price which will either make him curse at you and leave (win) or it will make him curse at you and accept (win).
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
December 06 2010 17:31 GMT
#6
Graphics design is not a cheap job. It can be anywhere between $1-$100 a pixel. Since you are just starting out, you probably wouldn't charge very much since it's the experience that counts, but try to get somewhere between 15-20 euros per hour of work.
SpoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1542 Posts
December 06 2010 17:37 GMT
#7
Also, if you haven't done that much stuff this will help you launch your career better. If the pay is not that good it can still pay off other ways, keep this guy as a reference for your portfolio, just tell him to say he paid you more ^_- .
Just having experience might net you more pay later on as well as giving you a better frame of reference on your self worth.
A man is what he thinks about all day long.
devil`
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States176 Posts
December 06 2010 17:38 GMT
#8
That is a total rip. Atleast $1000 and atleast 3-4 week deadline (business days).
http://devilsfeed.info/ My personal Blog. Follow me on twitter @iamdevilrawr
ProTech_MediC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States498 Posts
December 06 2010 17:43 GMT
#9
I think the client needs to lay out exactly what he's looking for on the 120 cards before you can make any semi-accurate assessment.
MC Fighting!~
TossFloss *
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada606 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 17:56:39
December 06 2010 17:55 GMT
#10
In general, it is always better to have a face-to-face meeting with potential clients. If that's not possible, then second best is to do a phone call. There's a good reason why business-people travel to see their clients even in this high-tech day-and-age: Because you can learn so much about the person you're dealing with.

If you strongly believe that client will not pay, then ask for a 100% forward payment or the deal is no-go. In normal circumstances consider charging 50% upfront for new clients.

You may wish to consider outsourcing parts of the project to another artist (many artists in other countries will work cheap). So you could develop a "card" template and have minions do variations for the 140 cards.

Another thing. Be careful when considering what established artists ask for because they already have a client base, established reputation and portfolio; whereas you are just starting out.

Also, this client (like many) may only need passable-quality art. So consider how long the project could take you if you were to do low-quality designs

On December 07 2010 02:18 BroOd wrote:
That sounds like a horrible wage for what you'd be doing. From your description, the client seems pretty unprofessional. Is he a student hiring you to do a school project for him or something? I can't imagine someone designing a board game and then just asking someone to whip the whole thing up in two weeks.

Could be a prototype for a marketing or investor presentation. Or the client could be an indy board-game developer who just isn't on-top of things. If the project is being "rushed" he should be charging a premium.
TL Android App Open Source http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=265090
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32049 Posts
December 06 2010 18:13 GMT
#11
You are a student, so you will rightfully get less pay because you lack experience... but that sounds low no matter how you cut it.

But, while the pay seems to blow and the timeline short, having something like this under you belt as a student would be pretty nice. I'd try to get a little more, but keep that in mind and don't do anything forceful to bone yourself.
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
BroOd
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Austin10831 Posts
December 06 2010 18:22 GMT
#12
On December 07 2010 02:55 TossFloss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 02:18 BroOd wrote:
That sounds like a horrible wage for what you'd be doing. From your description, the client seems pretty unprofessional. Is he a student hiring you to do a school project for him or something? I can't imagine someone designing a board game and then just asking someone to whip the whole thing up in two weeks.

Could be a prototype for a marketing or investor presentation. Or the client could be an indy board-game developer who just isn't on-top of things. If the project is being "rushed" he should be charging a premium.

You're right, but asking a student to do a rush job on something like that seems strange considering he apparently gave him little to no actual detailed instruction. I find it hard to believe an indie game designer would be so "hands-off" with regard to such an important aspect of the game, and while it may be someone putting together a proposal, I'm just having a hard time imagining feasible real-world scenarios where a game would be produced in such a slipshod manner.
ModeratorSIRL and JLIG.
dasanivan
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States532 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 18:23:33
December 06 2010 18:22 GMT
#13
that's a terrible deal. unless you're desperate you should spend time looking for other clients. frankly it's also a terrible deal for the client since with that deadline and that price he'd likely be getting one crappy board game.
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
December 06 2010 18:29 GMT
#14
isnt 400 euros worth 2 McDonalds meals or smth like that in Sweden ?
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
unkkz
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Norway2196 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 21:09:23
December 06 2010 21:05 GMT
#15
On December 07 2010 03:29 disciple wrote:
isnt 400 euros worth 2 McDonalds meals or smth like that in Sweden ?


Not quite a McDonalds meal is about 5 euros in Sweden. And 400 euros would be like.. 500 USD or so with a rough guesstimate.

And the board game is for a prototype to be presented for potential investors the email i got says. I understand i have to sell myself a bit short when im starting out, just to get the experience and i have no problems with that. It just seemed that in order to be happy with the project myself, i'd have to work my ass of for those two weeks to get it up to the standards i'd want. And the Deadline isn't 14 days in a sense, its more a month but all students have finals now and then theres the holidays so efectively the deadline becomes about 14 days since thats how much time i have available. But considering that and that i have my finals in about 10 days i'm not going to take the job, i simply wont have the time.

The insight people left me here is good however and i thank you for that, i was pretty much just wanting to know if i was wrong in thinking that this was a pretty crappy deal on my end, i can work around the money and swallow a turd there since the experience is good, but the deadline being so damn short for such a big job is something i can't really accept for such low pay.

If the people in this thread themselves would decide, how much time would you say you'd need for a project like this, and if you were a student - how much would you charge?
unkkz
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Norway2196 Posts
December 06 2010 21:15 GMT
#16
On December 07 2010 02:23 SpoR wrote:
Don't think of your work in terms of 'What do others get paid for this same kind of thing?', think of it in terms of 'What is my time worth?, What is the amount of work needed for this?, How hard will I have to work to complete this? , What is the cost of my supplies?' etc. Then you can give yourself some kind of mental idea even before you get offers and confidently argue pay when opportunities arise. Also what Coag said about how much they are willing to spend, usually they give you the low end estimate, sell your product (yourself) as well as you can.


Good advice, thanks. I'd say to get the job done i'd need to work atleast 10 hours every day for those 14 days, i cant be sure since i've never done a boardgame before but from the things he wants done i know its alot of work. So thats 140 hours of work at the very minimum, which would translate to 2,8 euros an hour. My current part time job in a sport store nets me 12,5 euros an hour.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
16:00
#97
RotterdaM456
Liquipedia
FEL
16:00
Polish Championship: Qualifier
IndyStarCraft 87
CranKy Ducklings20
Liquipedia
WardiTV European League
16:00
Swiss Groups Day 2
Scarlett vs Percival
Jumy vs ArT
YoungYakov vs Shameless
uThermal vs Fjant
Nicoract vs goblin
Harstem vs Gerald
WardiTV495
TKL 113
Liquipedia
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill #216
davetesta81
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 456
Hui .251
TKL 113
IndyStarCraft 87
Vindicta 53
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 33818
Calm 4584
Rain 3418
EffOrt 1626
Flash 1241
Horang2 1235
Larva 692
BeSt 342
hero 207
Mind 153
[ Show more ]
Mong 71
Snow 59
Barracks 45
Shinee 45
Hyun 41
Movie 35
soO 29
JYJ25
Shine 23
yabsab 20
zelot 10
IntoTheRainbow 10
Backho 7
Dota 2
Gorgc10870
qojqva3222
League of Legends
singsing2464
Trikslyr57
Counter-Strike
zeus285
Foxcn277
byalli147
edward45
Other Games
Grubby2920
hiko1208
FrodaN961
Lowko339
Fuzer 317
Beastyqt255
Pyrionflax99
QueenE27
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 11
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 13
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2512
• WagamamaTV537
League of Legends
• Nemesis7834
• Jankos1564
• TFBlade914
Other Games
• Shiphtur233
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
10h 40m
CranKy Ducklings
17h 40m
RSL Revival
17h 40m
ByuN vs Cham
herO vs Reynor
FEL
23h 40m
RSL Revival
1d 17h
Clem vs Classic
SHIN vs Cure
FEL
1d 19h
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-28
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.