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On November 12 2010 05:11 djWHEAT wrote:
tl;dr - I accept that some people didn't think the venue was a good choice, but at the end of the day, the show wouldn't have been possible without a post-event party in which all the top gamers were attending. Also if I could do it over again I wouldn't change the "venue" but I would try to find a quieter location within said venue for the show.
I think the venue was a great choice because it was the kind of show you NEVER get to see. You might want to use a directional mic if you do something similar but I would love to see more shows like this in the future.
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On November 12 2010 04:59 djWHEAT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 04:43 Klamity wrote:
I apologize. It was more of the latter in that it was a gross over-generalization.
And perhaps the second part of your post comes down to a misunderstanding. It seems to me like you're more or less saying you don't care about criticism of the show and are going to continue doing whatever the hell you feel like doing.
Regardless, my main point is that you seem to neglect the fact that the people who the cast were also viewers. I'm disappointed that you don't seem to be taking their words or worries seriously. Criticism isn't meant to be insulting to you, it's meant to help.
I never once said I don't care about criticism of the show... if I really didn't care, I probably wouldn't have even bothered to post my thoughts on the situation. I take viewer criticism very seriously and while we don't try to cater to every single request, complaint, etc. I'd rather know and understand every view and angle from the audience/community. Maybe the point I should have made is... this isn't much different that what I've been doing for the past 8 years with these shows. And that hasn't "prevented" me, the communities I'm involved in, or my co-hosts from having a successful career in video gaming. My only complaint about the criticism is from those who didn't even watch the show, and so they just made assumptions about the content without actually seeing what it contained (or they took someone else's assumptions and ran with it...). Everyone who watched it all learned a great deal about the players/staff/personalities interviewed, yet some made it sound like we were bringing Ret on and asking him what his favorite sexual position was. That was simply NOT the case. I completely stand by the content we created that night. If people didn't like the venue or felt the environment wasn't acceptable for that show, there's not much I CAN do about that. But I certainly don't dismiss the intelligent criticism we get about the shows and the content we create... sometimes I just don't agree with it.
That's just the impression your initial post gave. I realize that what's happened happened and there aren't a whole bunch of negatives that resulted from it, but all I personally want is for you to be conscious of this in the future and it seems like you are.
As stated, a lot of people enjoyed the majority of the show, there were just some things (pointed out numerous times) which were questionable.
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On November 12 2010 05:19 Defacer wrote:
Question for you sir: was the MLG LO3 indicative of regular LO3? If I enjoy Day 9 and SOTG, which one of the billions of shows that you're on should I give a chance?
And yes, I give you and JP credit for even getting people to show up. Kudos.
Yes it was indicative of a regular LO3 in terms of the guests/content. We've always prided ourselves in the ability to bring on guests that people would be interested in hearing from. Whether that's a top player, an industry figure, a manager, etc... we bring interviews and content that you probably aren't going to find anywhere else.
Was it indicative of a regular LO3 in terms of the environment? No. I do LO3 in my living room. Anytime it's NOT done in my living room is obviously going to stray from the norm. But I'm also not one of those people who's going to go, "well I don't have my setup, so I'm not going to do a show".
I would suggest you check out the Church of Esports on Sunday which includes Weapon of Choice at 2PM EST and Live On Three immediately after at 4PM EST.
And to be fair, Slasher did most of the work in terms of asking players to come on the show.
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On November 12 2010 05:21 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 05:17 djWHEAT wrote:On November 12 2010 05:02 Defacer wrote:
To be frank, I found Slasher annoying. There you go. I said it. Wheat seems perfectly fine though. Many people have this same first impression of Slasher. But in his defense, he is one of the most passionate people in eSports as far as I'm concerned. There's not another person on this planet that knows as much as this guy knows about nearly every single community in gaming. Whether Quake, StarCraft, WoW, Counter-Strike, Street Fighter... he may come off as brash and rude, but his dedication is unmatched. He doesn't pit communities against one another, he doesn't try to claim one community is better than another... he just wants to see eSports grow, and he has his own way of doing it. I think he gets a bit of hate from this particular community because he's not as intimate with the members as others are. But people should at least give him the benefit of the doubt, because he's done nothing but help promote the community to OTHER communities. Dude's just got to simmer down a bit. I'm sure he's a great guy, but you know how you'll go to a party and there's a guy that almost comes on too strong and doesn't know when to back off? Just relax. Be Nony. Chill.
He's defending one of his close friends, how horrible of him.
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slasher is awesome.
wheat is awesome.
LO3 afterparty was amazing and I hope to see more shows that are that fun, feature that many players and gossip. It was so amazing I watched nearly the whole thing, right after a day of MLG viewing to have that right after was insane and epic.
If people don't like it I recommend they just don't watch.
That is all.
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On November 12 2010 05:21 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 05:17 djWHEAT wrote:On November 12 2010 05:02 Defacer wrote:
To be frank, I found Slasher annoying. There you go. I said it. Wheat seems perfectly fine though. Many people have this same first impression of Slasher. But in his defense, he is one of the most passionate people in eSports as far as I'm concerned. There's not another person on this planet that knows as much as this guy knows about nearly every single community in gaming. Whether Quake, StarCraft, WoW, Counter-Strike, Street Fighter... he may come off as brash and rude, but his dedication is unmatched. He doesn't pit communities against one another, he doesn't try to claim one community is better than another... he just wants to see eSports grow, and he has his own way of doing it. I think he gets a bit of hate from this particular community because he's not as intimate with the members as others are. But people should at least give him the benefit of the doubt, because he's done nothing but help promote the community to OTHER communities. Dude's just got to simmer down a bit. I'm sure he's a great guy, but you know how you'll go to a party and there's a guy that almost comes on too strong and doesn't know when to back off? Just relax. Be Nony. Chill.
I was as relaxed as I could be, Blue Moon is a pretty good beer. I respect your criticism, but that's just who I am, and you wouldn't have those players to listen to if I didn't try to round them up beforehand. And arranging the players in order for interviews (Laz first for hosting, Jinro for winning, IdrA's disappointing finish, etc) while not having the same team back to back (the final order went LG, Day9, EG, TL, EG, LG, EG, TL, TL, JP) is tough to do, so some yelling at people was necessary.
Also, Kate (millies, the girl at the end of the show) will be posting a blog soon with some of her thoughts on the show and Dallas in general. God, why do women think they can write blogs? http://imgur.com/DKA5W.jpg
Make sure to tune into Weapon of Choice and Live On Three this Sunday at 2 and 4 PM EST respectively, at http://www.djWHEAT.tv
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On November 12 2010 05:11 djWHEAT wrote:
I just wanted to make a quick point about the "venue".
Have you ever tried to herd cats? I'd imagine it would be really difficult. Let's pretend for a minute that StarCraft 2 players are a bit like cats. Difficult to herd. It's hard enough to schedule ONE player for an interview after the event let alone 10-12 players.
nLazerus offered to let us use his room as the place to record BECAUSE everyone was going to be there already, and from a production standpoint, that seemed to be the easiest way to actually accomplish what we wanted to accomplish... which was to pack as many guests into the show as humanly possible.
TRUST ME, if I could do it over again, I would definitely change a few things. For example, we were literally right in the middle of the "party". If I could do it over again, I would have moved the setup to a bit quieter of a location, but it would have still been within the party. Because the broadcast was there, with all the guests, it made it incredibly easy to bring them on and I wouldn't want to lose that ability.
When I look at the show from a production perspective there's no way that show could have been done WITHOUT being at that gathering of gamers. You can read that as an excuse all you want, but most people don't consider the production side of this show. It's not as easy as setting up some equipment and magically everything happening. In fact, it took us 2 hours just to get everything ready for the show... and that was after a grueling 12 hour day of Finals.
Regardless, I understand why some believe the venue wasn't the best. And that's fine. I get it. However, I don't agree that it reflected poorly on LO3. I think LO3 has proven in the past that our aim isn't to have the most amazing sets or production... our aim is to bring as much of esports as we can to the masses... and this presented a great opportunity to do just that. Where there is eSports, LO3 will follow. And if that happens to be in a hotel room with nearly every top gamer from the MLG Dallas tournament... then so be it.
tl;dr - I accept that some people didn't think the venue was a good choice, but at the end of the day, the show wouldn't have been possible without a post-event party in which all the top gamers were attending. Also if I could do it over again I wouldn't change the "venue" but I would try to find a quieter location within said venue for the show.
Thank you for the response regarding the setup. I admit, it must be difficult to get a bunch of gamers lined up for a show. Like you stated, I just wish it would have been in a more isolated area where it could have been less chaotic.
Keep on doing what you do, wheat. Without people like you, I wouldn't have stuck with e-sports as long as I have.
As for the negative comments people have made about slasher: The guy is a total boss. He is the guy who tells it how he sees it and doesn't care about how he is received. His bluntness is something a show like Lo3 needs. He brings a different outlook on things, and that is awesome.
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On November 12 2010 05:44 Slasher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 05:21 Defacer wrote:On November 12 2010 05:17 djWHEAT wrote:On November 12 2010 05:02 Defacer wrote:
To be frank, I found Slasher annoying. There you go. I said it. Wheat seems perfectly fine though. Many people have this same first impression of Slasher. But in his defense, he is one of the most passionate people in eSports as far as I'm concerned. There's not another person on this planet that knows as much as this guy knows about nearly every single community in gaming. Whether Quake, StarCraft, WoW, Counter-Strike, Street Fighter... he may come off as brash and rude, but his dedication is unmatched. He doesn't pit communities against one another, he doesn't try to claim one community is better than another... he just wants to see eSports grow, and he has his own way of doing it. I think he gets a bit of hate from this particular community because he's not as intimate with the members as others are. But people should at least give him the benefit of the doubt, because he's done nothing but help promote the community to OTHER communities. Dude's just got to simmer down a bit. I'm sure he's a great guy, but you know how you'll go to a party and there's a guy that almost comes on too strong and doesn't know when to back off? Just relax. Be Nony. Chill. I was as relaxed as I could be, Blue Moon is a pretty good beer. I respect your criticism, but that's just who I am, and you wouldn't have those players to listen to if I didn't try to round them up beforehand. And arranging the players in order for interviews (Laz first for hosting, Jinro for winning, IdrA's disappointing finish, etc) while not having the same team back to back (the final order went LG, Day9, EG, TL, EG, LG, EG, TL, TL, JP) is tough to do, so some yelling at people was necessary. Also, Kate (millies, the girl at the end of the show) will be posting a blog soon with some of her thoughts on the show and Dallas in general. God, why do women think they can write blogs? http://imgur.com/DKA5W.jpgMake sure to tune into Weapon of Choice and Live On Three this Sunday at 2 and 4 PM EST respectively, at http://www.djWHEAT.tv
Let me just clarify something: I wouldn't criticize or offer feedback at all if I didn't have an immense respect and appreciation for the work all you guys do: Slasher, JP, Wheat, Scoots etc. You guys are doing a GREAT job spreading and promoting esports.
Any feedback from me comes from a desire to see you guys keep evolving and improving your work. One measure of e-sports success is when you guys start making serious money from what you already do.
This reminds me of when the snowboarding scene was just about to blow-up and become mainstream. It's not about selling out or changing yourselves, but cashing in on all the hard work you put in.
Again, kudos to all of you guys.
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On November 12 2010 04:59 djWHEAT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 04:43 Klamity wrote:
I apologize. It was more of the latter in that it was a gross over-generalization.
And perhaps the second part of your post comes down to a misunderstanding. It seems to me like you're more or less saying you don't care about criticism of the show and are going to continue doing whatever the hell you feel like doing.
Regardless, my main point is that you seem to neglect the fact that the people who the cast were also viewers. I'm disappointed that you don't seem to be taking their words or worries seriously. Criticism isn't meant to be insulting to you, it's meant to help.
Everyone who watched it all learned a great deal about the players/staff/personalities interviewed, yet some made it sound like we were bringing Ret on and asking him what his favorite sexual position was. That was simply NOT the case.
I bet he LOVES the backdoor wheat
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On November 12 2010 03:09 ZlaSHeR wrote:
I modded something along the lines of 2500 people at 1 AM for that show, and the chat was blowing the fuck up laughing and having a good time watching the show, where were all the haters of the show then? Its pretty evident that they are NOT the majority here, yet the more you guys inflate it, the more you take away from the actual, silent majority.
Absolutely. If you have any doubt that the vast majority would like to see more shows like this do a poll and I'm sure it will be better than 10-1 in favor.
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Man why the hell are some members of the SC community such freaking prudes. Quit being whiny bitches and watch something else if you are a person that's like... "oh dear lord there drinking alcohol and playing beer pong hide my virgin eyes!"
Deal with it.
Keep bringing the best stuff to the SC2 community djWHEAT, Slasher & SirScoots you guys rock.
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On November 12 2010 04:40 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 04:14 Defacer wrote:On November 12 2010 04:02 BroOd wrote:On November 12 2010 03:56 Siffer wrote:On November 12 2010 03:43 ZlaSHeR wrote:Like we've said several times who gives a shit if there was drinking, it was a party, that happens, they weren't broadcasting this under the FCC or under federal control, it was just a show. And as I have stated, it was a great, entertaining stream. However, I feel *in my opinion* having it stamped as a live on 3 show just doesn't fit well. I went to three CPL events. Each time, we(the players) had outrageous after parties. I am not against having fun. Hell, I encourage it. I *WISH* I was at MLG to experience it first hand. All I ask is that people quit bringing strawman into the discussion. I think the problem is that your interpretation of what LO3 is supposed to be is at odds with it's actual purpose. The reason I do things like the LO3 Post-MLG Show, [...] is cause I'm a nerd just like you guys. That's my outlet. That's where I get to yell and bitch about this horrible game I played, vent about a developer who I think has screwed us over, argue the finer points of micro-transactions, etc. My outlet also happens to best convey my own personality which is loud, a little obnoxious, and (hopefully) entertaining. If that's what wheat envisions for the show, how was this broadcast inappropriately stamped as a LO3 broadcast? Well to me, it wasn't a LO3 broadcast, but an opportunity for the LO3 guys to pick up regular viewers of other shows: MLG, State of the Game, etc. Just in terms of a business strategy to boost their audience, it just seemed like a bit of a missed opportunity, especially with access to amazing guests. Maybe they should do a short, "real" LO3 for half-an-hour after MLG, than go into after party mode. Best of both worlds. If you think that's what that was about then you don't know Wheat at all. I 100% guarantee the conversation that spawned that show went something like this: Wheat: We should do a LO3 after MLG when everyone is hanging out and we can get like everyone on the show at once. How badass would that be? Slasher: Yea dude that'll be awesome! Scoots: We need pizza for this to work.. Wheat: Let's do it, it'll be a lot of fun!!!" Note the bolded word there. I know these guys well enough to know they did it for the fun factor and nothing else. If they cared about ratings they would have just created another show on Ustream under Wheat's main channel regardless what when Wheat's stream was having issues, and would not have used Cat In a Box..... Seriously this was on channel Cat In a Box, I know I keep coming back to this but there is no universe out there that you can join on and notice it's called Cat in a Box and go to yourself "oh, this must be the MLG off hours channel, makes sense." Now if you were an animal lover that only turned on the channel full expecting a cat in a box you may very well have a legitimate bitch.... Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 04:18 Siffer wrote:On November 12 2010 04:02 BroOd wrote:The reason I do things like the LO3 Post-MLG Show, [...] is cause I'm a nerd just like you guys. That's my outlet. That's where I get to yell and bitch about this horrible game I played, vent about a developer who I think has screwed us over, argue the finer points of micro-transactions, etc. My outlet also happens to best convey my own personality which is loud, a little obnoxious, and (hopefully) entertaining. If that's what wheat envisions for the show, how was this broadcast inappropriately stamped as a LO3 broadcast? Because when I tune in on a normal Sunday, it isnt in an extremely loud environment with camera pans showing a bunch of people drinking and playing beer pong. That is it. The venue and atmosphere just didn't fit a typical Lo3 setup and I just think it gives a poor representation of what wheat does on a weekly basis. When you tune into LO3 on Sunday's, you tune in at 11PM EST and right after the MLG Championships on channel Cat in a Box? The fact that is was at a time that did not even make sense for the show's name, after the championships, and on a channel that you 100% have never ever watched LO3 on EVER before that should have all been strong clues that this show may be slightly different then normal. I think it only strengthens it. To me this is no different then having reporters in the locker rooms after sports games championships interviewing the players as they drink and party their asses off. It's just the E-Sports industry receives so little attention Wheat is one of the first guys to do this in SCII. The nice thing about E-Sports is instead of only showing the winners partying and the losers being all sad, you see EVERYONE hanging out having a good time. That spoke volumes to me right there to show where the overall level of respect in the SCII community is.
Diamond is 100% correct. That's pretty much the mentality of the crew.
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wheat my only request is that you guys buy some clip on mics for next time lol. The post tourney show was awesome but haters gonna hate. I totally agree about straddling the line, everyone has the right to speak freely when they aren't in pro mode.
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I have to say that there should have been more of the style of LO3 you did after the games during the downtime. Your post is well thought out (as expected) and to the point. People who think that any spectator sport/game started out by being 100% professional evidently do not watch ice hockey, boxing, or any other sport in the world.
There is a very obvious line between professional (a la the channel 5 news) and 'fun' that people can usually conceptualize.
That said, when Mountain Dew pays you $10 billion to be "professional Wheat," I will stop watching LO3. I know that will never happen, because as you said, LO3 and other shows you do are outlets for you.
Keep up the good work - I loved the show and the commentary. You and Day9 work excellently together.
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On November 12 2010 09:14 Catreina wrote:
That said, when Mountain Dew pays you $10 billion to be "professional Wheat," I will stop watching LO3. I know that will never happen, because as you said, LO3 and other shows you do are outlets for you.
I find it hilarious that people like me are considered 'the haters'.
Wheat, sell out all you want man. I won't judge you for being too successful. Those are the REAL haters.
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Fuck the haters, Mister Wheat.
Make miniwheat make a face (any one) at them, and watch their hearts melt to goo.
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On November 12 2010 05:17 djWHEAT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 05:02 Defacer wrote:
To be frank, I found Slasher annoying. There you go. I said it. Wheat seems perfectly fine though. Many people have this same first impression of Slasher. But in his defense, he is one of the most passionate people in eSports as far as I'm concerned. There's not another person on this planet that knows as much as this guy knows about nearly every single community in gaming. Whether Quake, StarCraft, WoW, Counter-Strike, Street Fighter... he may come off as brash and rude, but his dedication is unmatched. He doesn't pit communities against one another, he doesn't try to claim one community is better than another... he just wants to see eSports grow, and he has his own way of doing it. I think he gets a bit of hate from this particular community because he's not as intimate with the members as others are. But people should at least give him the benefit of the doubt, because he's done nothing but help promote the community to OTHER communities.
It's funny how much me and Slasher share in common other than having our names confused
On November 12 2010 05:19 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 05:11 djWHEAT wrote:
I just wanted to make a quick point about the "venue".
Have you ever tried to herd cats? I'd imagine it would be really difficult. Let's pretend for a minute that StarCraft 2 players are a bit like cats. Difficult to herd. It's hard enough to schedule ONE player for an interview after the event let alone 10-12 players.
nLazerus offered to let us use his room as the place to record BECAUSE everyone was going to be there already, and from a production standpoint, that seemed to be the easiest way to actually accomplish what we wanted to accomplish... which was to pack as many guests into the show as humanly possible.
TRUST ME, if I could do it over again, I would definitely change a few things. For example, we were literally right in the middle of the "party". If I could do it over again, I would have moved the setup to a bit quieter of a location, but it would have still been within the party. Because the broadcast was there, with all the guests, it made it incredibly easy to bring them on and I wouldn't want to lose that ability.
When I look at the show from a production perspective there's no way that show could have been done WITHOUT being at that gathering of gamers. You can read that as an excuse all you want, but most people don't consider the production side of this show. It's not as easy as setting up some equipment and magically everything happening. In fact, it took us 2 hours just to get everything ready for the show... and that was after a grueling 12 hour day of Finals.
Regardless, I understand why some believe the venue wasn't the best. And that's fine. I get it. However, I don't agree that it reflected poorly on LO3. I think LO3 has proven in the past that our aim isn't to have the most amazing sets or production... our aim is to bring as much of esports as we can to the masses... and this presented a great opportunity to do just that. Where there is eSports, LO3 will follow. And if that happens to be in a hotel room with nearly every top gamer from the MLG Dallas tournament... then so be it.
tl;dr - I accept that some people didn't think the venue was a good choice, but at the end of the day, the show wouldn't have been possible without a post-event party in which all the top gamers were attending. Also if I could do it over again I wouldn't change the "venue" but I would try to find a quieter location within said venue for the show. Question for you sir: was the MLG LO3 indicative of regular LO3? If I enjoy Day 9 and SOTG, which one of the billions of shows that you're on should I give a chance? And yes, I give you and JP credit for even getting people to show up. Kudos.
Depends on what you like. If you just want SC2 talk, watch Weapon of Choice, if you want progaming talk (every single pro game, community, team, etc. type of stuff) watch Live On Three, if you like video game reviews, watch Epileptic Gaming.
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I'll probably give Weapon of Choice a shot. I don't have time to follow ANOTHER game. And honestly, SC2 has the best players of any e-sport, I think.
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On November 11 2010 21:30 Morfildur wrote:
I didn't see the show and i liked your casting at the MLG, but with this post and some of your replies in this thread (yes, i read all 10 pages existing when i started writing this post... including the "Toys'r'us child", "don't want to grow up",... seriously?) you lost a lot of my respect.
In the US it might be normal to party, get drunk, make bad jokes, laugh about blow job jokes, ... but you have an international audience (though thanks to bad american comedy shows - where they even tell you when to laugh - the difference isn't that big anymore sadly).
Maybe i'm just too old and don't understand your generation (though i'm propably younger than you, but since you don't want to grow up... well...), but i really don't like this immature attitude, no matter _where_ someone shows it. I don't respect TaKeSen for hiring a stripper to a tournament either (and thats me working in the adult industry maintaining a system storing and managing over 100 Terabyte Porn).
Well, i guess someone has to be the clown (or if you prefer, entertainer) for the lower classes so they never learn to rise above themselves and learn to be more than just... children.
Who do you rather be? The young marine on the battlefield who has an exciting, though quite short life, or the commander of the battleship in orbit?
Yes, this post might offend you and possibly a lot others, but well, have fun with your partying, spring breaks, comedy shows, college football,... come back to this post when you have finally grown up in about 30-40 years. Well, ok, if the world develops as i expect it will be in ruins by then, so i just hope everyone grows up before then... but i don't expect it.
Just a Note: To those who said the event was at night, children shouldn't watch it anyways... it's always afternoon somewhere on the world and some children might watch it (though i don't think it's the strongest argument against such a stream).
What motivates this kind of jack ass to post. He starts off with how superiour he is to Americans then goes onto say he is a porn pusher. So we are suppose to think you are mature yet cool. What I get from that is you are a hypocrit and a scumbag.
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EPT
