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So I just got done with a game on Xel'Naga Caverns that I felt the need to share with the community.
Why, you ask?
Well, sometimes on ladder we have the pleasure of interacting with players that are such incompetent, misguided failures, who do such ridiculous, and hilariously bad things, that NOT sharing it with the community would be downright sinful.
Now, I will say that I was a little BM this game... I'm not proud of it, but if ever there was an appropriate setting for it, I think it was this game.
What you'll see in the following replay:
Gateways, proxied inside my base
A Forge, proxied just outside my base
A Stargate, proxied just NORTH of my base
Dark Templar that try to sneak INTO my base
And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/93382-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
 
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"And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting."
You know zerg is on equal to or maybe even above other races. Definetly not underpowered anymore so get used to zerg OP rages.
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The only question I have is why did he bother with the stargate :O
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On October 20 2010 17:51 Ghostcom wrote:
The only question I have is why did he bother with the stargate :O
Keeping with the theme of the game, I guess. =\
To be fair, if I hadn't scouted it, that Void could've done a lot of damage.
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That replay was hilarious. That guy was soooo bad haha
I think the only reason you got such hilarious imba responses from him is because you were BM-ing him. I don't see how he could be serious.
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On October 20 2010 16:54 Crawler wrote:
"And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting."
You know zerg is on equal to or maybe even above other races. Definetly not underpowered anymore so get used to zerg OP rages.
hahahahaha please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.
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On October 20 2010 19:04 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 16:54 Crawler wrote:
"And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting."
You know zerg is on equal to or maybe even above other races. Definetly not underpowered anymore so get used to zerg OP rages. hahahahaha please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.
heh.. what's wrong with my post? It's easy to say HUAUAHEEHEHEHEE you are wrong, I am right.
Forum is full of "I am Z, nerf X and Y" posts and it's getting really old. As a random player since beta I have to admit that balance has never been as worse as people make it sound (at least after release).
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Playing random mitigates some of the disadvantages zerg has though.
They can't use a race specific abusive build when they do not know what your race is, so they have to scout instead, which messes up timings for some abusive builds anyways.
Trust me, as a random player who wants to play zerg because of old bw feelings, zerg is (was) UP. The 1.1.2 patch makes things pretty even across the board. To deny that the imbalance was not really bad is..... wishful thinking? It is (was) readily apparent if you race pick occasionally instead of play random 100% of the time.
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On October 20 2010 19:23 Crawler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 19:04 SubtleArt wrote:On October 20 2010 16:54 Crawler wrote:
"And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting."
You know zerg is on equal to or maybe even above other races. Definetly not underpowered anymore so get used to zerg OP rages. hahahahaha please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. heh.. what's wrong with my post? It's easy to say HUAUAHEEHEHEHEE you are wrong, I am right. Forum is full of "I am Z, nerf X and Y" posts and it's getting really old. As a random player since beta I have to admit that balance has never been as worse as people make it sound (at least after release).
Because playing random since beta gives you any special insight on balance. -.-
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On October 20 2010 20:25 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 19:23 Crawler wrote:On October 20 2010 19:04 SubtleArt wrote:On October 20 2010 16:54 Crawler wrote:
"And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting."
You know zerg is on equal to or maybe even above other races. Definetly not underpowered anymore so get used to zerg OP rages. hahahahaha please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. heh.. what's wrong with my post? It's easy to say HUAUAHEEHEHEHEE you are wrong, I am right. Forum is full of "I am Z, nerf X and Y" posts and it's getting really old. As a random player since beta I have to admit that balance has never been as worse as people make it sound (at least after release). Because playing random since beta gives you any special insight on balance. -.-
Just like playing on race means your opinion isnt bias at all '-.-'
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On October 20 2010 19:30 dogabutila wrote:
Playing random mitigates some of the disadvantages zerg has though.
They can't use a race specific abusive build when they do not know what your race is, so they have to scout instead, which messes up timings for some abusive builds anyways.
Trust me, as a random player who wants to play zerg because of old bw feelings, zerg is (was) UP. The 1.1.2 patch makes things pretty even across the board. To deny that the imbalance was not really bad is..... wishful thinking? It is (was) readily apparent if you race pick occasionally instead of play random 100% of the time.
It was "really bad" you say but +1 range on roaches and a reaper nerf evened it out? give me a fucking break.
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On October 20 2010 19:30 dogabutila wrote:
Playing random mitigates some of the disadvantages zerg has though.
They can't use a race specific abusive build when they do not know what your race is, so they have to scout instead, which messes up timings for some abusive builds anyways.
Trust me, as a random player who wants to play zerg because of old bw feelings, zerg is (was) UP. The 1.1.2 patch makes things pretty even across the board. To deny that the imbalance was not really bad is..... wishful thinking? It is (was) readily apparent if you race pick occasionally instead of play random 100% of the time.
I will give you an estimation of what has happened and what will happen later on, maybe a month or so down the line.
Most terrans saw the patchnotes.
Their reaper control was already lackluster WITH speed and easily stopped so prepatch they used to 5 rax reaper and now just by reading the patchnotes they have already given up to the point of calling them useless.
They half heartedly try to hellion rush and it often times die with no damage done so they call hellions useless.
so while it might LOOK even, Terrans have yet to explore the phledora of openings they can perform and Zergs are realisticly still not even close to balanced out alongside the other races.
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lol, he was probably just fucking around, I know me and a friend sometimes do ridiculous stuff like this just for the lulz.
I actually won a great TvT on Blistering sands where I went proxy reaper into backdoor hellions into cloaked banshee into BC. Bit of a douche move but it was fucking hilarious.
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On October 20 2010 19:23 Crawler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 19:04 SubtleArt wrote:On October 20 2010 16:54 Crawler wrote:
"And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting."
You know zerg is on equal to or maybe even above other races. Definetly not underpowered anymore so get used to zerg OP rages. hahahahaha please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. heh.. what's wrong with my post? It's easy to say HUAUAHEEHEHEHEE you are wrong, I am right. Forum is full of "I am Z, nerf X and Y" posts and it's getting really old. As a random player since beta I have to admit that balance has never been as worse as people make it sound (at least after release).
What's wrong with your post is that it's simply untrue. If you want me to elaborate, sure:
Among high level players, Terran is still the strongest race and Zerg the weakest. take a look at the list of tournament winners since patch 1.1:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160713
Gold medals by race since patch 1.1:
Terran - 14
Protoss - 5
Zerg - 4
Tournament finalists be race since patch 1.1
Terran - 26
Protoss - 11
Zerg - 9
Simple statistics show Terrans are placing higher and winning more tournaments than any other race at high level competitions and Zergs are winning the least. Keep in mind this is all after Patch 1.1, the one that left Zerg alone and nerfed reapers / tanks.
Yes the roach range buff of 1.2 helps tremendously, but it still doesn't skew the balance of the matchup towards Zerg. At very best, it makes it sort of even, but realistically it just turns the matchup from impossible to possible but still hard. Admittedly the most significant change is the reaper nerf, which allows Zergs to play hatch first, and this seems pretty big so we'll let it play out and then decide but overall Zerg is definitely not the strongest race.
Also unit stats aside, there's still fundamental problems to the matchup. Terran has way more early options and tech rushes and way better scouting and is better at controlling the pace of the game as opposed to Zerg players who usually find themselves in a passive, reactive role based of extremely limited scouting.
Try using real statistics of real players instead of imparting your low diamond knowledge.
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STOP TURNING THIS INTO ANOTHER SHITTY BALANCE THREAD
The reason why the zerg is op comment is so funny is because the player saying it is so bad. I wish I could watch the game right now, but he proxies in every direction, fails, and then blames it on balance.
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On October 20 2010 22:21 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 19:23 Crawler wrote:On October 20 2010 19:04 SubtleArt wrote:On October 20 2010 16:54 Crawler wrote:
"And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting."
You know zerg is on equal to or maybe even above other races. Definetly not underpowered anymore so get used to zerg OP rages. hahahahaha please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. heh.. what's wrong with my post? It's easy to say HUAUAHEEHEHEHEE you are wrong, I am right. Forum is full of "I am Z, nerf X and Y" posts and it's getting really old. As a random player since beta I have to admit that balance has never been as worse as people make it sound (at least after release). What's wrong with your post is that it's simply untrue. If you want me to elaborate, sure: Among high level players, Terran is still the strongest race and Zerg the weakest. take a look at the list of tournament winners since patch 1.1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160713Tournament finalists be race since patch 1.1 Simple statistics show Terrans are placing higher and winning more tournaments than any other race at high level competitions and Zergs are winning the least. Keep in mind this is all after Patch 1.1, the one that left Zerg alone and nerfed reapers / tanks. Yes the roach range buff of 1.2 helps tremendously, but it still doesn't skew the balance of the matchup towards Zerg. At very best, it makes it sort of even, but realistically it just turns the matchup from impossible to possible but still hard. Admittedly the most significant change is the reaper nerf, which allows Zergs to play hatch first, and this seems pretty big so we'll let it play out and then decide but overall Zerg is definitely not the strongest race. Also unit stats aside, there's still fundamental problems to the matchup. Terran has way more early options and tech rushes and way better scouting and is better at controlling the pace of the game as opposed to Zerg players who usually find themselves in a passive, reactive role based of extremely limited scouting. Try using real statistics of real players instead of imparting your low diamond knowledge.
Want real statistics instead of low diamond knowledge?
From http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/761331#blog
Protoss are played 38.5% of the time.
Terran are played 38.0% of the time.
Zerg are played 23.5% of the time.
and now lets look at your post about wins since 1.1
Terran - 26
Protoss - 11
Zerg - 9
1.1.2 buffed zerg in ZvT greatly by destroying 5raxx reapers and early raxx aggression which allows zergs to expand before pool on most maps.
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/811948#blog <-- clearly we can see that zergs are struggling. Race that is underpopulated is having as many top players as race with 60%+ more players and beating other offrace which also has 60% more players.
Top 200 EU Top 200 NA Top 200 Korea
79 terran 56 zerg 82 terran
69 zerg 76 terran 64 protoss
49 protoss 59 protoss 50 zerg
3 random 9 random 3 random
Oh and did I already mention that T and P have 60% more players?
Now lets look at the major tournament results since 1.1
GSL: Zerg
IEM: Terran
Post 1.1.2
MLG: Zerg
Now let me quote you: + Show Spoiler +Yes the roach range buff of 1.2 helps tremendously, but it still doesn't skew the balance of the matchup towards Zerg. At very best, it makes it sort of even, but realistically it just turns the matchup from impossible to possible but still hard.
ZvT was impossible yet fruitdealer managed to win against bw pro in GSL finals and he faced almost only terrans in season 1. Even after semi or quarterfinals he said that ZvP is a lot harder than ZvT. Go check vods if you think that I speak bs. How can you win impossible matchup against all the other korean terrans? Are they really that bad? Scrubs like you create illusions for themselves that these minor unit differences create 20-50% edge to your opponent. Top terrans (tournament players) cried in beta how TvZ was impossible due to baneling demolishing any kind of bio but now that banelings didnt recieve any buffs and bio didnt recieve any hp/movement speed/stim nerf they suddenly work with proper micro. Jump off the bandwagon and start practising instead of whining about game balance. Z = T = P and if you think that race change would give you 500 extra points and 20 tournament wins then you are complete moron.
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On October 20 2010 22:21 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 19:23 Crawler wrote:On October 20 2010 19:04 SubtleArt wrote:On October 20 2010 16:54 Crawler wrote:
"And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting."
You know zerg is on equal to or maybe even above other races. Definetly not underpowered anymore so get used to zerg OP rages. hahahahaha please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. heh.. what's wrong with my post? It's easy to say HUAUAHEEHEHEHEE you are wrong, I am right. Forum is full of "I am Z, nerf X and Y" posts and it's getting really old. As a random player since beta I have to admit that balance has never been as worse as people make it sound (at least after release). What's wrong with your post is that it's simply untrue. If you want me to elaborate, sure: Among high level players, Terran is still the strongest race and Zerg the weakest. take a look at the list of tournament winners since patch 1.1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160713Tournament finalists be race since patch 1.1 Simple statistics show Terrans are placing higher and winning more tournaments than any other race at high level competitions and Zergs are winning the least. Keep in mind this is all after Patch 1.1, the one that left Zerg alone and nerfed reapers / tanks. Yes the roach range buff of 1.2 helps tremendously, but it still doesn't skew the balance of the matchup towards Zerg. At very best, it makes it sort of even, but realistically it just turns the matchup from impossible to possible but still hard. Admittedly the most significant change is the reaper nerf, which allows Zergs to play hatch first, and this seems pretty big so we'll let it play out and then decide but overall Zerg is definitely not the strongest race. Also unit stats aside, there's still fundamental problems to the matchup. Terran has way more early options and tech rushes and way better scouting and is better at controlling the pace of the game as opposed to Zerg players who usually find themselves in a passive, reactive role based of extremely limited scouting. Try using real statistics of real players instead of imparting your low diamond knowledge.
Becuase who won a tournament 2 months ago says something about balance in this patch - right? Try using statistics correctly instead of manipulating the numbers to prove your point. (And if you really want to talk about who won important tournaments perhaps you should take a look at GSL - which is pretty much the most significant tournament to have been played so far).
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On October 20 2010 22:21 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 19:23 Crawler wrote:On October 20 2010 19:04 SubtleArt wrote:On October 20 2010 16:54 Crawler wrote:
"And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting."
You know zerg is on equal to or maybe even above other races. Definetly not underpowered anymore so get used to zerg OP rages. hahahahaha please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. heh.. what's wrong with my post? It's easy to say HUAUAHEEHEHEHEE you are wrong, I am right. Forum is full of "I am Z, nerf X and Y" posts and it's getting really old. As a random player since beta I have to admit that balance has never been as worse as people make it sound (at least after release). What's wrong with your post is that it's simply untrue. If you want me to elaborate, sure: Among high level players, Terran is still the strongest race and Zerg the weakest. take a look at the list of tournament winners since patch 1.1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160713Tournament finalists be race since patch 1.1 Simple statistics show Terrans are placing higher and winning more tournaments than any other race at high level competitions and Zergs are winning the least. Keep in mind this is all after Patch 1.1, the one that left Zerg alone and nerfed reapers / tanks. Yes the roach range buff of 1.2 helps tremendously, but it still doesn't skew the balance of the matchup towards Zerg. At very best, it makes it sort of even, but realistically it just turns the matchup from impossible to possible but still hard. Admittedly the most significant change is the reaper nerf, which allows Zergs to play hatch first, and this seems pretty big so we'll let it play out and then decide but overall Zerg is definitely not the strongest race. Also unit stats aside, there's still fundamental problems to the matchup. Terran has way more early options and tech rushes and way better scouting and is better at controlling the pace of the game as opposed to Zerg players who usually find themselves in a passive, reactive role based of extremely limited scouting. Try using real statistics of real players instead of imparting your low diamond knowledge.
Ok... let's look at few things...
First of all,
26 + 11 + 9 =40
Unfortunately sample size of 40 is not nearly a big enough sample size and should not be considered as reliable source of 'statistic'.
Secondly, there are obvious overlooked factors... the statisitc does not state there has been equal amount of TZP in the tournament. In fact, Zerg is the least entered race in tournaments. Obvious reason is that Zerg is a less popular race to play compared to other races, another possible reason is that Zerg players feel intimidated because they feel UP. There is even another possiblity, playing Zerg adds to the tournament pressure to people who get stressed easily because they are require heavy macro. None of these factors are being looked at all.
Please don't say statements like 'using real statistics', it's rather inappropriate in this circumstance.
Let's also look your argument in general.
On October 20 2010 22:21 SubtleArt wrote:
Simple statistics show Terrans are placing higher and winning more tournaments than any other race at high level competitions and Zergs are winning the least.
This is undeniably true according to the statisitcs. This is a good statistical analysis.
However,
Premise 1: Terran wins more in tournaments
Premise 2: Zerg wins the least in tournaments
C: Therefore Terran is overpowered and Zerg is underpowered
In this argument, conclusion may or may not be true.
This is because your arguments could fall under formal fallacy. There could other possible reasons or better explainations for premises 1 and premise 2 (look at what I said about overlooked factors).
People above, stop being overly harsh. Most of your arguments don't fair too well either. Geez~
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Just wanted to say I completely approve of this replay. I love the six thousand different ways he tried to cheese you.
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i really love cheese and hate people who dont know how to stop it  . but that is a bit much though !
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On October 20 2010 22:21 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 19:23 Crawler wrote:On October 20 2010 19:04 SubtleArt wrote:On October 20 2010 16:54 Crawler wrote:
"And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting."
You know zerg is on equal to or maybe even above other races. Definetly not underpowered anymore so get used to zerg OP rages. hahahahaha please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. heh.. what's wrong with my post? It's easy to say HUAUAHEEHEHEHEE you are wrong, I am right. Forum is full of "I am Z, nerf X and Y" posts and it's getting really old. As a random player since beta I have to admit that balance has never been as worse as people make it sound (at least after release). What's wrong with your post is that it's simply untrue. If you want me to elaborate, sure: Among high level players, Terran is still the strongest race and Zerg the weakest. take a look at the list of tournament winners since patch 1.1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160713Tournament finalists be race since patch 1.1 Simple statistics show Terrans are placing higher and winning more tournaments than any other race at high level competitions and Zergs are winning the least. Keep in mind this is all after Patch 1.1, the one that left Zerg alone and nerfed reapers / tanks. Yes the roach range buff of 1.2 helps tremendously, but it still doesn't skew the balance of the matchup towards Zerg. At very best, it makes it sort of even, but realistically it just turns the matchup from impossible to possible but still hard. Admittedly the most significant change is the reaper nerf, which allows Zergs to play hatch first, and this seems pretty big so we'll let it play out and then decide but overall Zerg is definitely not the strongest race. Also unit stats aside, there's still fundamental problems to the matchup. Terran has way more early options and tech rushes and way better scouting and is better at controlling the pace of the game as opposed to Zerg players who usually find themselves in a passive, reactive role based of extremely limited scouting. Try using real statistics of real players instead of imparting your low diamond knowledge.
On October 20 2010 19:04 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2010 16:54 Crawler wrote:
"And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting."
You know zerg is on equal to or maybe even above other races. Definetly not underpowered anymore so get used to zerg OP rages. hahahahaha please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.
Please take your own advice lolol your ignorance/arrogance/condescending tone is amazing for someone who doesn't have a clue.
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I can tell the cheesers arent from BW..
Actually I take that back, they are probably all from BW LOL
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YOU GUYS DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS GAME AT ALLLL!
I've been playing Starcraft since the dawn of time. Shit, I AM THE FIRST SCV! Statistics? Ignorance? Arrogance? Patches? Balance? Don't talk until you put on a marine suit, attach a Psi blade to each arm, and start spitting acid onto the endangered Panda Bears on the Great Plains of Andromeda!
Guys, chill out with the balance discussion, watch the replay, and laugh.
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I just watched this rep again and couldn't help but to bump this thread.
Balance QQ isn't the point. Hilarity is.
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its really not the cheeser who is bm. Most of the time the chat reaction of the enemy is bm (i know that because i cheese a lot), like in this replay. The cheeser ia just doing his thing. Great replay.
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Always expect any SC2 related post to degenerate into balance flame wars.
Never fails.
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The other day I played a random 2v2 ladder game where we were all protoss on Scorched Haven.
We procceded to proxy 4 gate (2 each) while the both cannon rushed. It was a fromage fest.
In theory this would have been a draw but I manage to save a couple of probes and 400 so we won !
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when I used to play protoss I'd cannon rush every game on Metalopolis. It's fun and effective, unless they're zerg.
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On October 20 2010 16:54 Crawler wrote:
"And to top it all off, a scrub who calls Zerg OP at the end of it, right before finally quitting."
You know zerg is on equal to or maybe even above other races. Definetly not underpowered anymore so get used to zerg OP rages.
Reapers got overnerfed and roaches have 1 additional range and now the game favors Zerg?
rrriiiiiiiiiigggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhttttttttttttttttttttttt
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Ugh... shitty balance shit seeping its way into everywhere.
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this sounds so ridiculous that I just have to cast it when I get some time
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EPT
