• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:26
CEST 12:26
KST 19:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202576RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced21BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
[Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 735 users

Why do we have mathematics in school?

Blogs > kineSiS-
Post a Reply
Normal
kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 06:28:21
October 15 2010 05:57 GMT
#1
Math...

What is math?

Some define it to be a jumble of numbers with confusing orders of operations and tiring algebra...

However, I'd like to put it more eloquently and define it in one word. Math is an art...


However, it is necessary not to stray from the main point of contention that will be discussed today and for possibly many days and weeks from this point on.

Why is Mathematics in school?

It's a waste of time some say, others argue its intriguing.


Personally, I think Math is an important and essential subject within the school curriculum. It's a rudimentary subject that seems so simple when first discovered, like a book's first page, is actually complex and intricate with connections intertwined throughout the whole being that it is.

First of all, it is necessary that we learn. By removing a subject from the school curriculum, it's obvious that we are learning less and therefore it is a detriment to our overall bank of knowledge.

Secondly, it is useful in life. Everyday, math is involved, the number of sections of the sidewalk on your block, or the intricate structure of the skyscraper you saw commuting to work... Math is a fundamental subject, and not only essential it is so much more than just a practicality.

Math is art. Theories created by great minds enrapture young and budding students that wish to learn. Physics, Economics, so many more subjects revolve around math or utilize math in such a manner that it is vital.

And to stop here, I wish to let my fellow people discuss this subject. I have discussed why Math is a necessity in order to localize the more broad and open question...

Why do we have mathematics in school?

EDIT:

So I think I haven't made my question quite clear. Here's what I mean:

On October 15 2010 15:14 mieda wrote:
More clarification/verification please:

Do you mean how did Mathematics enter liberal arts education historically? Or do you want to discuss "Why should we have mathematics in liberal arts?"

And maybe you left the question, "What do you think math is?" intentionally vague and very open-ended just to get aimless first responses from people here. I assure you, if you leave the question "What is purpose of math?" as it is, then you're going to get tons of trolling responses.



In order to set boundaries, and working in conjunction with Mieda, I ask this question....

How did Mathematics enter liberal arts education historically?

If you lack the historical background in order to answer this question with comprehension and cognizance, then I also ask this...

Why should we have Mathematics in Liberal Arts?



I also would hope that a sort of quid pro quo would be established here, that the effort put into my response would be put into yours.

*
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
October 15 2010 05:59 GMT
#2
cuz its instrumental for a large number of majors and if you take it out of the curriculum those degrees and jobs would be impossible and society would collapse and the options for career paths would be considerably smaller?
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
Babel
Profile Joined April 2010
30 Posts
October 15 2010 06:01 GMT
#3
haha what a grandstanding OP.
Math is a useful as a tool in a bunch of fields like you said. Are you expecting someone to disagree with you?
kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
October 15 2010 06:02 GMT
#4
On October 15 2010 14:59 mOnion wrote:
cuz its instrumental for a large number of majors and if you take it out of the curriculum those degrees and jobs would be impossible and society would collapse and the options for career paths would be considerably smaller?


Ah, please, let's try to avoid practicality and go into depth with other aspects of this question.
Disregard
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
China10252 Posts
October 15 2010 06:03 GMT
#5
Fundamentals of math apply in everything.
"If I had to take a drug in order to be free, I'm screwed. Freedom exists in the mind, otherwise it doesn't exist."
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
October 15 2010 06:04 GMT
#6
On October 15 2010 15:02 kineSiS- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 14:59 mOnion wrote:
cuz its instrumental for a large number of majors and if you take it out of the curriculum those degrees and jobs would be impossible and society would collapse and the options for career paths would be considerably smaller?


Ah, please, let's try to avoid practicality and go into depth with other aspects of this question.


I really don't think you can dramatize something like this. should we also discuss the reasoning behind having lunch in school other than the whole "need food to survive" thing?

i dont understand what you want to discuss...

like the emotional aspects of math?
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
SonuvBob
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Aiur21549 Posts
October 15 2010 06:06 GMT
#7
On October 15 2010 14:57 kineSiS- wrote:
Why do we have mathematics in school?

We don't, we just have the jumble of numbers you mentioned. Math is far more interesting than what they teach in school (in the US, at least).
Administrator
Lightswarm
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada966 Posts
October 15 2010 06:06 GMT
#8
math is the language of the universe
Team[AoV]
kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
October 15 2010 06:08 GMT
#9
On October 15 2010 15:06 SonuvBob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 14:57 kineSiS- wrote:
Why do we have mathematics in school?

We don't, we just have the jumble of numbers you mentioned. Math is far more interesting than what they teach in school (in the US, at least).


Ah I updated the OP, as it seems that it wasn't clear enough.
kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 06:09:49
October 15 2010 06:08 GMT
#10
On October 15 2010 15:04 mOnion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 15:02 kineSiS- wrote:
On October 15 2010 14:59 mOnion wrote:
cuz its instrumental for a large number of majors and if you take it out of the curriculum those degrees and jobs would be impossible and society would collapse and the options for career paths would be considerably smaller?


Ah, please, let's try to avoid practicality and go into depth with other aspects of this question.


I really don't think you can dramatize something like this. should we also discuss the reasoning behind having lunch in school other than the whole "need food to survive" thing?

i dont understand what you want to discuss...

like the emotional aspects of math?


So you think Math is just a subject? It seems you fail the realize the depth of what it actually is!

There is no "dramatization" going on, it is merely discussing a question. And to be philosophical, to argue, to debate, to discuss that's what I want to do.
Babel
Profile Joined April 2010
30 Posts
October 15 2010 06:09 GMT
#11
On October 15 2010 15:02 kineSiS- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 14:59 mOnion wrote:
cuz its instrumental for a large number of majors and if you take it out of the curriculum those degrees and jobs would be impossible and society would collapse and the options for career paths would be considerably smaller?


Ah, please, let's try to avoid practicality and go into depth with other aspects of this question.


so you want a circle jerk about how much Tlers like math? Half your OP is just adjectives describing beauty being applied to math.
kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
October 15 2010 06:10 GMT
#12
On October 15 2010 15:09 Babel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 15:02 kineSiS- wrote:
On October 15 2010 14:59 mOnion wrote:
cuz its instrumental for a large number of majors and if you take it out of the curriculum those degrees and jobs would be impossible and society would collapse and the options for career paths would be considerably smaller?


Ah, please, let's try to avoid practicality and go into depth with other aspects of this question.


so you want a circle jerk about how much Tlers like math? Half your OP is just adjectives describing beauty being applied to math.


Ah as said earlier, I updated the OP.
Cube
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada777 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 06:12:44
October 15 2010 06:11 GMT
#13
This sums up my feelings on the subject quite nicely. In my high school at least, we never even talked about "proof" or why we were doing what we were. The beauty of the subject is lost amid the demands of a confused and poorly thought out curriculum.


On October 15 2010 15:06 SonuvBob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 14:57 kineSiS- wrote:
Why do we have mathematics in school?

We don't, we just have the jumble of numbers you mentioned. Math is far more interesting than what they teach in school (in the US, at least).


it's like this in Canada too.
aliasds
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada555 Posts
October 15 2010 06:11 GMT
#14
I think math is an excellent way to develop your logic. In fact, I would argue that math, much more than any other subject is how one becomes acquainted with the process of reasoning and deduction.

Also, why does this suspiciously smell like homework?
bbq ftw
Profile Joined September 2010
United States139 Posts
October 15 2010 06:13 GMT
#15
What is math's purpose?

What is science's purpose?
What is language's purpose?

To be used to better mankind, no more, no less.
Cube
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada777 Posts
October 15 2010 06:13 GMT
#16
On October 15 2010 15:11 aliasds wrote:
I think math is an excellent way to develop your logic. In fact, I would argue that math, much more than any other subject is how one becomes acquainted with the process of reasoning and deduction.

Also, why does this suspiciously smell like homework?


since mathematics is an extension of formal logic, this follows naturally.
mieda
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States85 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 06:16:34
October 15 2010 06:14 GMT
#17
More clarification/verification please:

Do you mean how did Mathematics enter liberal arts education historically? Or do you want to discuss "Why should we have mathematics in liberal arts?"

And maybe you left the question, "What do you think math is?" intentionally vague and very open-ended just to get aimless first responses from people here. I assure you, if you leave the question "What is purpose of math?" as it is, then you're going to get tons of trolling responses.

kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
October 15 2010 06:14 GMT
#18
On October 15 2010 15:11 Cube wrote:
This sums up my feelings on the subject quite nicely. In my high school at least, we never even talked about "proof" or why we were doing what we were. The beauty of the subject is lost amid the demands of a confused and poorly thought out curriculum.


Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 15:06 SonuvBob wrote:
On October 15 2010 14:57 kineSiS- wrote:
Why do we have mathematics in school?

We don't, we just have the jumble of numbers you mentioned. Math is far more interesting than what they teach in school (in the US, at least).


it's like this in Canada too.


However, I feel like that wasn't what I meant with the question, I did clarify, I hope you can readjust your response according.

And sonuvbob... that was not my intention, I never applied a blanket statement on Mathematics as being a "jumble of numbers".
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10341 Posts
October 15 2010 06:14 GMT
#19
Math is the language of the universe.
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
October 15 2010 06:15 GMT
#20
On October 15 2010 15:11 aliasds wrote:
I think math is an excellent way to develop your logic. In fact, I would argue that math, much more than any other subject is how one becomes acquainted with the process of reasoning and deduction.

Also, why does this suspiciously smell like homework?

Detective at work!

I think math gives meanings to certain characters we call numbers. Did I make any sense there?
[TLMS] REBOOT
Uranium
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1077 Posts
October 15 2010 06:18 GMT
#21
Are you serious? Everything IS math. Our own existence could be described perfectly (in theory) using only mathematical functions, thereby proving that WE ARE MATH. MATH IS REAL.

English is purely an invention of our own and not a "rudimentary subject" as you call it. Math is the most elementary subject and everything that you can possibly imagine is actually just math in some form or another.
"Sentry imba! You see? YOU SEE??!!" - Sen | "Marauder die die!" - oGsMC | "Oh my god, she texted me back!" - Day[9]
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
October 15 2010 06:23 GMT
#22
FUCK I HATE MATH.

well i love trig and geometry and stuff rolf but other than that anythign more complicated i start to lose interest.. >_>
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Disregard
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
China10252 Posts
October 15 2010 06:26 GMT
#23
Discrete math for Computer Science/Engineering bleh...
"If I had to take a drug in order to be free, I'm screwed. Freedom exists in the mind, otherwise it doesn't exist."
Cube
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada777 Posts
October 15 2010 06:27 GMT
#24
On October 15 2010 15:14 kineSiS- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 15:11 Cube wrote:
This sums up my feelings on the subject quite nicely. In my high school at least, we never even talked about "proof" or why we were doing what we were. The beauty of the subject is lost amid the demands of a confused and poorly thought out curriculum.


On October 15 2010 15:06 SonuvBob wrote:
On October 15 2010 14:57 kineSiS- wrote:
Why do we have mathematics in school?

We don't, we just have the jumble of numbers you mentioned. Math is far more interesting than what they teach in school (in the US, at least).


it's like this in Canada too.


However, I feel like that wasn't what I meant with the question, I did clarify, I hope you can readjust your response according.

And sonuvbob... that was not my intention, I never applied a blanket statement on Mathematics as being a "jumble of numbers".



you didn't read the whole thing. skip to page four if you don't like his music/painting parallels.
kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
October 15 2010 06:29 GMT
#25
On October 15 2010 15:27 Cube wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 15:14 kineSiS- wrote:
On October 15 2010 15:11 Cube wrote:
This sums up my feelings on the subject quite nicely. In my high school at least, we never even talked about "proof" or why we were doing what we were. The beauty of the subject is lost amid the demands of a confused and poorly thought out curriculum.


On October 15 2010 15:06 SonuvBob wrote:
On October 15 2010 14:57 kineSiS- wrote:
Why do we have mathematics in school?

We don't, we just have the jumble of numbers you mentioned. Math is far more interesting than what they teach in school (in the US, at least).


it's like this in Canada too.


However, I feel like that wasn't what I meant with the question, I did clarify, I hope you can readjust your response according.

And sonuvbob... that was not my intention, I never applied a blanket statement on Mathematics as being a "jumble of numbers".



you didn't read the whole thing. skip to page four if you don't like his music/painting parallels.


Oh sigh, thank you simpleton for an opinion that holds oh so much weight.
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
October 15 2010 06:31 GMT
#26
math is a need .. along with food, water, shelter and clothing ..

imagine a world without math ..
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
Cube
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada777 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 06:31:59
October 15 2010 06:31 GMT
#27
On October 15 2010 15:29 kineSiS- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 15:27 Cube wrote:
On October 15 2010 15:14 kineSiS- wrote:
On October 15 2010 15:11 Cube wrote:
This sums up my feelings on the subject quite nicely. In my high school at least, we never even talked about "proof" or why we were doing what we were. The beauty of the subject is lost amid the demands of a confused and poorly thought out curriculum.


On October 15 2010 15:06 SonuvBob wrote:
On October 15 2010 14:57 kineSiS- wrote:
Why do we have mathematics in school?

We don't, we just have the jumble of numbers you mentioned. Math is far more interesting than what they teach in school (in the US, at least).


it's like this in Canada too.


However, I feel like that wasn't what I meant with the question, I did clarify, I hope you can readjust your response according.

And sonuvbob... that was not my intention, I never applied a blanket statement on Mathematics as being a "jumble of numbers".




you didn't read the whole thing. skip to page four if you don't like his music/painting parallels.


Oh sigh, thank you simpleton for an opinion that holds oh so much weight.


care to elaborate?
kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
October 15 2010 06:35 GMT
#28
On October 15 2010 15:31 Cube wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 15:29 kineSiS- wrote:
On October 15 2010 15:27 Cube wrote:
On October 15 2010 15:14 kineSiS- wrote:
On October 15 2010 15:11 Cube wrote:
This sums up my feelings on the subject quite nicely. In my high school at least, we never even talked about "proof" or why we were doing what we were. The beauty of the subject is lost amid the demands of a confused and poorly thought out curriculum.


On October 15 2010 15:06 SonuvBob wrote:
On October 15 2010 14:57 kineSiS- wrote:
Why do we have mathematics in school?

We don't, we just have the jumble of numbers you mentioned. Math is far more interesting than what they teach in school (in the US, at least).


it's like this in Canada too.


However, I feel like that wasn't what I meant with the question, I did clarify, I hope you can readjust your response according.

And sonuvbob... that was not my intention, I never applied a blanket statement on Mathematics as being a "jumble of numbers".




you didn't read the whole thing. skip to page four if you don't like his music/painting parallels.


Oh sigh, thank you simpleton for an opinion that holds oh so much weight.


care to elaborate?


" you didn't read the whole thing, skip to page four if you don't like his music/painting parallels."

hah mockery. please, just answer the question and stop trying to discredit me.
Jigsetcza
Profile Joined August 2010
United States118 Posts
October 15 2010 06:37 GMT
#29
Are you asking or are you saying we need math in school. I'm confused.
Cube
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada777 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 06:40:10
October 15 2010 06:37 GMT
#30
i'm not discrediting you, i'm asking you to read the entire text before deciding it is irrelevant. And i'm not going to answer your question in my own words, since I feel the words in the aforementioned text are better than what i could write on the subject.

as an aside, stop being an ass.
kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
October 15 2010 06:38 GMT
#31
On October 15 2010 15:37 Cube wrote:
i'm not discrediting you, i'm asking you to read the entire text before deciding it is irrelevant. And i'm not going to answer your question in my own words, since I fell the words in the aforementioned text are better than what i could write on the subject.

as an aside, stop being an ass.


EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID SO FAR IS IRRELEVANT TO MY QUESTION, GET OUT OF THIS THREAD.

User was temp banned for this post.
kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
October 15 2010 06:39 GMT
#32
On October 15 2010 15:37 Jigsetcza wrote:
Are you asking or are you saying we need math in school. I'm confused.


Why should we have Mathematics in Liberal Arts?
Cube
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada777 Posts
October 15 2010 06:39 GMT
#33
On October 15 2010 15:38 kineSiS- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 15:37 Cube wrote:
i'm not discrediting you, i'm asking you to read the entire text before deciding it is irrelevant. And i'm not going to answer your question in my own words, since I fell the words in the aforementioned text are better than what i could write on the subject.

as an aside, stop being an ass.


EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID SO FAR IS IRRELEVANT TO MY QUESTION, GET OUT OF THIS THREAD.


lol
SonuvBob
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Aiur21549 Posts
October 15 2010 06:44 GMT
#34
None of his responses seem to be related to the contents of the quoted posts. I think something might be broken in his head.
Administrator
Lemonwalrus
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States5465 Posts
October 15 2010 06:45 GMT
#35
Stop being irrelevant cube.
Lemonwalrus
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States5465 Posts
October 15 2010 06:46 GMT
#36
On October 15 2010 15:44 SonuvBob wrote:
None of his responses seem to be related to the contents of the quoted posts. I think something might be broken in his head.

Maybe his teachers didn't teach him enough of this 'maths' we've been hearing about.
Cube
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada777 Posts
October 15 2010 06:48 GMT
#37
On October 15 2010 15:45 Lemonwalrus wrote:
Stop being irrelevant cube.


i'm sorry, i hope this fixes it.
Lemonwalrus
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States5465 Posts
October 15 2010 06:50 GMT
#38
That is even more irrelevant.

It is like you are not even trying.
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
October 15 2010 06:50 GMT
#39
I hate Algebra, it doesn't make sense to me.

Geometry, analysis and probas are quite interesting though. Oh and they can be useful irl. Algebra mmm not so much in your everyday life
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Lemonwalrus
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States5465 Posts
October 15 2010 06:52 GMT
#40
I would argue that Algebra is more useful irl than Geometry. But maybe my everyday life is different than the average person's, idk.
Cube
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada777 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 06:58:01
October 15 2010 06:54 GMT
#41
On October 15 2010 15:52 Lemonwalrus wrote:
I would argue that Algebra is more useful irl than Geometry. But maybe my everyday life is different than the average person's, idk.


i would argue that algebraic geometry is more useful IRL than geometry or algebra, but maybe my life is different than the average person's, idk.

actually i lied, abstract algebra is probably more useful, my bad.
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 06:58:51
October 15 2010 06:58 GMT
#42
On October 15 2010 15:52 Lemonwalrus wrote:
I would argue that Algebra is more useful irl than Geometry. But maybe my everyday life is different than the average person's, idk.

Yea i guess that the average guy doesn't deal with vector spaces and triangularizations on a daily basis =D
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 07:09:59
October 15 2010 06:59 GMT
#43
On October 15 2010 15:26 Disregard wrote:
Discrete math for Computer Science/Engineering bleh...

I rather have my linear algebra with it's sexy matrices.

As for math in liberal arts. The ability to derive equations based off data and observations is integral to understanding how to keep yourself in a fiscally responsible situation. Although with encouraging the students into using critical thinking, which if one can think and ask questions and verify things all things critical to journalism which is in liberal arts or writing which is also in liberal arts. Even painting and graphic design all has roots with math. How do you know keep certain ratios and things known to be ascetically appealing., though statistics and science all which have strong roots in math.

If you ever were going to understand something not just do something math will help you =p
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
October 15 2010 07:00 GMT
#44
OP you need to learn how to write
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9618 Posts
October 15 2010 07:18 GMT
#45
i love analysis, and find zero usefulness in it when not doing it for the sake of learning. I think algebra is more fun, and more practical than geometry. The rationalization and decision making process one learns with proofs in geometry are one thing, but other than that the whole .. .. discipline? idk the right word, kind of lackluster.

LW, I would argue he is trying pretty hard, and its actually incredibly funny. :-p i love analysis, and find zero usefulness in it when not doing it for the sake of learning. I think algebra is more fun, and more practical than geometry. The rationalization and decision making process one learns with proofs in geometry are one thing, but other than that the whole .. .. discipline? idk the right word, kind of lackluster.

LW, I would argue he is trying pretty hard, and its actually incredibly funny. :-p
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9618 Posts
October 15 2010 07:18 GMT
#46
i love math
i wish i knew more of it.
rockslave
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Brazil318 Posts
October 15 2010 07:21 GMT
#47
I am a computer science student and I love math. That said, I think the more advanced stuff is not as important as people try to make it sound. Most people can do very well without linear algebra...

I'd like people to study more statistics though. Especially people from the "non-exact sciences".
What qxc said.
Cube
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada777 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 07:24:07
October 15 2010 07:22 GMT
#48
I too love math, but am intimidated, since as i learn more, i learn about more i don't know.
Looking to get more into number theory, abstract algebra, and eventually topology at the moment... while doing my CS degree. (what i understand of cryptography is really neat).
imDerek
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1944 Posts
October 15 2010 07:25 GMT
#49
i love math, loved the signal processing classes i took for ee, and loving the discrete math im reading in don knuth's taocp
Least favorite progamers: Leta, Zero, Mind, Shine, free, really <-- newly added
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 15 2010 07:29 GMT
#50
Mathematics is the language of the Universe.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
mieda
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States85 Posts
October 15 2010 07:36 GMT
#51
On October 15 2010 16:22 Cube wrote:
I too love math, but am intimidated, since as i learn more, i learn about more i don't know.
Looking to get more into number theory, abstract algebra, and eventually topology at the moment... while doing my CS degree. (what i understand of cryptography is really neat).


Good taste .

About the part of your being intimidated, I think it's okay as long as you're enjoying it (personal experience from what I've seen). Sure you're going to see a lot of kids who can figure out p-adic langlands soon after high school (I have someone in mind ^^), but I also see plenty of late-boomers who do well in things like number theory.

I guess you know what you're getting into, but modern number theory is really nothing like classical/elementary number theory. You're going to have to learn a lot of algebraic geometry (especially those cohomology theories over fields beside the simple C, and all those grothendieck revolution stuff), representation theory, modular / automorphic forms (maybe not so much directly with modularity if you're working with shimura varieties), algebraic number theory (so, class field theory i guess), etc.. to name a few.

Cube
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Canada777 Posts
October 15 2010 07:39 GMT
#52
On October 15 2010 16:36 mieda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 16:22 Cube wrote:
I too love math, but am intimidated, since as i learn more, i learn about more i don't know.
Looking to get more into number theory, abstract algebra, and eventually topology at the moment... while doing my CS degree. (what i understand of cryptography is really neat).


Good taste .

About the part of your being intimidated, I think it's okay as long as you're enjoying it (personal experience from what I've seen). Sure you're going to see a lot of kids who can figure out p-adic langlands soon after high school (I have someone in mind ^^), but I also see plenty of late-boomers who do well in things like number theory.

I guess you know what you're getting into, but modern number theory is really nothing like classical/elementary number theory. You're going to have to learn a lot of algebraic geometry (especially those cohomology theories over fields beside the simple C, and all those grothendieck revolution stuff), representation theory, modular / automorphic forms (maybe not so much directly with modularity if you're working with shimura varieties), algebraic number theory (so, class field theory i guess), etc.. to name a few.



i'm hoping to gain a basic understanding by taking university courses, and then work from there
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
October 15 2010 07:50 GMT
#53
haha this op is clearly trying a little too hard to be a smartass. it is too bad that he can't hide his bad writing and grammar through thesaurus
mieda
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States85 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 07:53:52
October 15 2010 07:53 GMT
#54
On October 15 2010 16:39 Cube wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 16:36 mieda wrote:
On October 15 2010 16:22 Cube wrote:
I too love math, but am intimidated, since as i learn more, i learn about more i don't know.
Looking to get more into number theory, abstract algebra, and eventually topology at the moment... while doing my CS degree. (what i understand of cryptography is really neat).


Good taste .

About the part of your being intimidated, I think it's okay as long as you're enjoying it (personal experience from what I've seen). Sure you're going to see a lot of kids who can figure out p-adic langlands soon after high school (I have someone in mind ^^), but I also see plenty of late-boomers who do well in things like number theory.

I guess you know what you're getting into, but modern number theory is really nothing like classical/elementary number theory. You're going to have to learn a lot of algebraic geometry (especially those cohomology theories over fields beside the simple C, and all those grothendieck revolution stuff), representation theory, modular / automorphic forms (maybe not so much directly with modularity if you're working with shimura varieties), algebraic number theory (so, class field theory i guess), etc.. to name a few.



i'm hoping to gain a basic understanding by taking university courses, and then work from there


Great! Hope you take the courses from actual number theorists!
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
October 15 2010 08:00 GMT
#55
The problem is the math they teach at school, not why maths is taught as school
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
susySquark
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1692 Posts
October 15 2010 08:10 GMT
#56
mathematics is not so much a subject which you learn to learn information, its a subject where you learn how to think. I believe this is invaluable
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2394 Posts
October 15 2010 08:22 GMT
#57
On October 15 2010 16:50 OneOther wrote:
haha this op is clearly trying a little too hard to be a smartass. it is too bad that he can't hide his bad writing and grammar through thesaurus

The sad thing is, a lot of the replies are like that too.
People who would rather read equation-less books about string theory than learn any physics.
People who can tell you everything about what NP-complete means and yet couldn't solve a differential equation.

The "maths is so beautiful I am so smart" crowd are ruining it !!!

=/
The original Bogus fan.
alexpnd
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1857 Posts
October 15 2010 08:24 GMT
#58
On October 15 2010 14:57 kineSiS- wrote:
sex...

What is sex?

Some define it to be a jumble of numbers with confusing orders of operations and tiring algebra...

However, I'd like to put it more eloquently and define it in one word. sex is an art...


However, it is necessary not to stray from the main point of contention that will be discussed today and for possibly many days and weeks from this point on.

Why is sexematics in school?

It's a waste of time some say, others argue its intriguing.


Personally, I think sex is an important and essential subject within the school curriculum. It's a rudimentary subject that seems so simple when first discovered, like a book's first page, is actually complex and intricate with connections intertwined throughout the whole being that it is.

First of all, it is necessary that we learn. By removing a subject from the school curriculum, it's obvious that we are learning less and therefore it is a detriment to our overall bank of knowledge.

Secondly, it is useful in life. Everyday, sex is involved, the number of sections of the sidewalk on your block, or the intricate structure of the skyscraper you saw commuting to work... sex is a fundamental subject, and not only essential it is so much more than just a practicality.

sex is art. Theories created by great minds enrapture young and budding students that wish to learn. Physics, Economics, so many more subjects revolve around sex or utilize sex in such a manner that it is vital.

And to stop here, I wish to let my fellow people discuss this subject. I have discussed why sex is a necessity in order to localize the more broad and open question...

Why do we have sexematics in school?

EDIT:

So I think I haven't made my question quite clear. Here's what I mean:

Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 15:14 mieda wrote:
More clarification/verification please:

Do you mean how did sexematics enter liberal arts education historically? Or do you want to discuss "Why should we have sexematics in liberal arts?"

And maybe you left the question, "What do you think sex is?" intentionally vague and very open-ended just to get aimless first responses from people here. I assure you, if you leave the question "What is purpose of sex?" as it is, then you're going to get tons of trolling responses.



In order to set boundaries, and working in conjunction with Mieda, I ask this question....

How did sexematics enter liberal arts education historically?

If you lack the historical background in order to answer this question with comprehension and cognizance, then I also ask this...

Why should we have sexematics in Liberal Arts?



I also would hope that a sort of quid pro quo would be established here, that the effort put into my response would be put into yours.

www.brainyweb.ca //web stuff!
mieda
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States85 Posts
October 15 2010 08:30 GMT
#59
On October 15 2010 17:22 Turbovolver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 16:50 OneOther wrote:
haha this op is clearly trying a little too hard to be a smartass. it is too bad that he can't hide his bad writing and grammar through thesaurus

The sad thing is, a lot of the replies are like that too.
People who would rather read equation-less books about string theory than learn any physics.
People who can tell you everything about what NP-complete means and yet couldn't solve a differential equation.

The "maths is so beautiful I am so smart" crowd are ruining it !!!

=/


Funny, where do all these assumptions come from?

T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
October 15 2010 08:38 GMT
#60
OP ...Uh.... no-one said you had to do maths in school? I didn't do maths in my senior years and still passed and went to university. Not doing maths does not allow me to enter some courses like science or engineering etc but its completely viable.

Anyways asking why they teach basic maths is the same as asking why we don't teach history for the sake of history anymore. Leaning historical dates is useless if children aren't taught the meaning of context and why those events happened. Society wants people to be able to think somewhat critically as well as independently and you need a curriculum that teaches logic and thought for that.

Of course I can only speak about my education though. But I imagine if you arent raised in some horridly backwards education system your experience would be similar.
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
October 15 2010 09:28 GMT
#61
I have a feeling this OP doesn't really want a debate- he wants someone to say the answer that he's already decided is the 'right' answer.
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
October 15 2010 10:04 GMT
#62
On October 15 2010 15:59 semantics wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 15:26 Disregard wrote:
Discrete math for Computer Science/Engineering bleh...

I rather have my linear algebra with it's sexy matrices.

As for math in liberal arts. The ability to derive equations based off data and observations is integral to understanding how to keep yourself in a fiscally responsible situation. Although with encouraging the students into using critical thinking, which if one can think and ask questions and verify things all things critical to journalism which is in liberal arts or writing which is also in liberal arts. Even painting and graphic design all has roots with math. How do you know keep certain ratios and things known to be ascetically appealing., though statistics and science all which have strong roots in math.

If you ever were going to understand something not just do something math will help you =p


Mmm matrices, what would I ever do without them. Use Dirac notation I guess.

On October 15 2010 15:23 alffla wrote:
FUCK I HATE MATH.

well i love trig and geometry and stuff rolf but other than that anythign more complicated i start to lose interest.. >_>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bra-ket_notation

I bet I could make you enjoy the complicated looking math in there within a week! The problem with how math is presented in many cases (and I like math) is that there is no motivating force behind it - it's just here is this and that and there and blah blah blah, which I must say is boring as fuck and would not grab my attention. And I like math, so that's saying something.

Or, I could answer the question of why tensor products with composite states (ok not that short and dirty, but threads are threads), and why define a unitary operator? with conservation of probability and its relation to real measurements - real quantum gates, and so on. Imho it's a lot easier to learn a certain subset of math when it has direct impact and use on a subject which on a higher level you have deep interest in. That's why learning all the math surrounding quantum is easy for me - the math is motivated by the quantum which is motivated by quantum computing/information.
Thereisnosaurus
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Australia1822 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 10:26:11
October 15 2010 10:18 GMT
#63
if it hasn't already come up, this is a very enlightening piece on some of the issues with math education right now, by an extremely well regarded teacher and mathematician. It's definitely worth the read for those of you who hated math ^^

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf

for the record this is a systematic demolition of pretty much every defence of the mathematics curriculum in both linear argument and pseudosocratic dialogue. It's a thing of beauty that will bring tears to your eyes. You should read it.
Poisonous Sheep counter Hydras
Suc
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia1569 Posts
October 15 2010 12:52 GMT
#64
iirc it has something to do with the Cold War and how the pure sciences were mass taught in schools so that each side could out technologise (is that a word??) each other. The trend carried through and created many jobs and has become acceptable as common subjects nowadays.

Okay, okay I kind of bsed that last line, but I believe my first statement is fairly accurate.
Reflex
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada703 Posts
October 15 2010 15:36 GMT
#65
Why we need math in school:
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
October 15 2010 23:09 GMT
#66
Some math courses are completely unnecessary. Differential equations for software engineers? I think they're more like a tradition than anything. Yes they help you think and abstract and whatever but for some areas there are better problems to be solved that make you think and abstract and are actually related to your area. Some of those courses are just like having a sudoku solving class, that while cool and hard and whatever, isn't really applicable.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
October 16 2010 00:08 GMT
#67
On October 16 2010 00:36 Reflex wrote:
Why we need math in school:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN9LZ3ojnxY

I think this is why people need to write down units.
illu
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2531 Posts
October 16 2010 00:41 GMT
#68
Mathematics is really important. Mathematics is the foundation and tool of science and scientific methods.

You also use mathematics in everyday life.
:]
rushz0rz
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Canada5300 Posts
October 16 2010 00:42 GMT
#69
I honestly believe Calculus 1 and 2 should be mandatory subjects in University, just like English.
IntoTheRainBOw fan~
Yurebis
Profile Joined January 2009
United States1452 Posts
October 16 2010 04:43 GMT
#70
The question of "why should we have x" is misguided. It is implicit that there needs to be a collective decision in what everyone gets. But in education specially, this isn't and can't be a collective action, for if the student wants to, he will never learn x, even if it were required by law.

Education isn't some object a central planner can easily regulate, like how many seatbelts a car has, or the concentration of fluoride in the water. No, it is much more personal, something that should be left for the student, and its parents whilst a minor. Not just because it's the most moral path, but also the most pragmatic for the purpose of specialization, and therefore superior wealth in society.
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
October 16 2010 05:42 GMT
#71
Horrible OP, but Math is frickin' sweet. I am always amazed that our savanna-adapted monkey brains can grapple with such elegance and abstraction.
PetitCrabe
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada410 Posts
October 16 2010 22:18 GMT
#72
Math is to physics what masturbation is to sex : it is more direct, no bullshit, but it lacks the passion and substance :D
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
October 16 2010 22:57 GMT
#73
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-16 23:01:48
October 16 2010 23:00 GMT
#74
nvm misread :O
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Galois
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States124 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-16 23:34:06
October 16 2010 23:30 GMT
#75
[image loading]

[image loading]
It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you / There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
jon arbuckle
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada443 Posts
October 16 2010 23:50 GMT
#76
I keep coming back to this OP and smacking my gob at how + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
it is.

By now no one takes this seriously anymore and nobody cares, but the irony in anyone asking how mathematics entered the liberal arts historically and then huffing about the effort being put into their posts must be pointed out for me to be able to type a few pages about Mary Wollstonecraft.
Mondays
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
October 17 2010 00:34 GMT
#77
On October 15 2010 18:28 tomatriedes wrote:
I have a feeling this OP doesn't really want a debate- he wants someone to say the answer that he's already decided is the 'right' answer.

You're irrelevant. Get out of this thread.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 17 2010 03:36 GMT
#78
Algebra is directly useful in a small minority of jobs, yet it's required to get a high-school diploma. If not everyone can understand algebra and more jobs require a diploma than require algebra, do you see the problem? (hint: do the math)

Math up to algebra should be required though, I agree.
Squeegy
Profile Joined October 2009
Finland1166 Posts
October 17 2010 12:16 GMT
#79
On October 15 2010 15:18 Uranium wrote:
Are you serious? Everything IS math. Our own existence could be described perfectly (in theory) using only mathematical functions, thereby proving that WE ARE MATH. MATH IS REAL.

English is purely an invention of our own and not a "rudimentary subject" as you call it. Math is the most elementary subject and everything that you can possibly imagine is actually just math in some form or another.


I don't think the socks I'm wearing right now are math and I am sure your math professor would agree. But if you did mean that everything - except you there - follows the laws of logic, then yeah, that's true. But it doesn't mean everything is logic. My socks for example aren't. They're a type of clothing.
Stan: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly. Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
October 17 2010 12:29 GMT
#80
On October 17 2010 21:16 Squeegy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 15:18 Uranium wrote:
Are you serious? Everything IS math. Our own existence could be described perfectly (in theory) using only mathematical functions, thereby proving that WE ARE MATH. MATH IS REAL.

English is purely an invention of our own and not a "rudimentary subject" as you call it. Math is the most elementary subject and everything that you can possibly imagine is actually just math in some form or another.


I don't think the socks I'm wearing right now are math and I am sure your math professor would agree. But if you did mean that everything - except you there - follows the laws of logic, then yeah, that's true. But it doesn't mean everything is logic. My socks for example aren't. They're a type of clothing.

How many socks are you wearing? One on the left foot, one on the right foot?

1 + 1 = 2

Math bro
theinvisiblePLER
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States110 Posts
October 17 2010 14:59 GMT
#81
On October 15 2010 15:13 bbq ftw wrote:
Show nested quote +
What is math's purpose?

What is science's purpose?
What is language's purpose?

To be used to better mankind, no more, no less.


To study the world around you.

To communicate.
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
October 17 2010 18:13 GMT
#82
--- Nuked ---
Squeegy
Profile Joined October 2009
Finland1166 Posts
October 17 2010 20:00 GMT
#83
On October 17 2010 21:29 floor exercise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2010 21:16 Squeegy wrote:
On October 15 2010 15:18 Uranium wrote:
Are you serious? Everything IS math. Our own existence could be described perfectly (in theory) using only mathematical functions, thereby proving that WE ARE MATH. MATH IS REAL.

English is purely an invention of our own and not a "rudimentary subject" as you call it. Math is the most elementary subject and everything that you can possibly imagine is actually just math in some form or another.


I don't think the socks I'm wearing right now are math and I am sure your math professor would agree. But if you did mean that everything - except you there - follows the laws of logic, then yeah, that's true. But it doesn't mean everything is logic. My socks for example aren't. They're a type of clothing.

How many socks are you wearing? One on the left foot, one on the right foot?

1 + 1 = 2

Math bro


Yeah, but it still doesn't make my socks math. As I said, try consulting your math professor. Dictionary may be helpful too.
Stan: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly. Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
Sky
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Jordan812 Posts
October 17 2010 21:29 GMT
#84
On October 18 2010 05:00 Squeegy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2010 21:29 floor exercise wrote:
On October 17 2010 21:16 Squeegy wrote:
On October 15 2010 15:18 Uranium wrote:
Are you serious? Everything IS math. Our own existence could be described perfectly (in theory) using only mathematical functions, thereby proving that WE ARE MATH. MATH IS REAL.

English is purely an invention of our own and not a "rudimentary subject" as you call it. Math is the most elementary subject and everything that you can possibly imagine is actually just math in some form or another.


I don't think the socks I'm wearing right now are math and I am sure your math professor would agree. But if you did mean that everything - except you there - follows the laws of logic, then yeah, that's true. But it doesn't mean everything is logic. My socks for example aren't. They're a type of clothing.

How many socks are you wearing? One on the left foot, one on the right foot?

1 + 1 = 2

Math bro


Yeah, but it still doesn't make my socks math. As I said, try consulting your math professor. Dictionary may be helpful too.


When someone says that everything is math, it usually means everything can be described by math. He's not really stating that the objects you wear are made of an logical language system. He's likely stating that everything existing can be explained using math.

Your statement that socks are just clothing can be similar to stating that you wear objects on your feet that have a specific mass, length, width, and depth in a three dimensional space (A mathematician could explain a sock through math better than I). They are both two different languages, you simply chose to use the word sock, specific to a few languages, to define the things you put on your feet.

Everything currently can be explained by math, but when people find new objects (quarks, mesons, probability events, chemical and evolutional equilibriums, and compounds) they have to rely on math to define it first, then it's up to all the other languages to describe the event in their own way so that it can be more comprehensible. It's all about definition. Now run along and learn a new language from your math professor.
...jumping into cold water whenever I get the chance.
category
Profile Joined July 2009
United States85 Posts
October 18 2010 21:43 GMT
#85
I'm really glad to see how many people here on TL feel that math is so important. I majored in math in college, but unfortunately I still don't have a great grasp of how math gets used in the real world. I just studied the theoretical stuff and it's really all I'm good at. For me there is too much ambiguity and uncertainty in real-world or like modeling applications. But so long as everyone says it's important, I can feel glad that I am good at it.

I also agree with some of the posts about how lousy the math education is here in America. Kids learn to hate math, and considering the way they are taught the subject, I completely understand where they are coming from. It's ironic that so many people think math is about memorizing formulas and procedures. The reality is that by approaching math as something to memorize, people manage to spend years in math classes without developing even the slightest bit of mathematical reasoning. Kids graduate high school in this country without knowing how to add fractions. They only know how to divide fractions by "invert and multiply", but sometimes they forget which fraction to invert.. And they can't multiply general polynomials, because if either factor has more than 2 terms, FOIL no longer applies. It's a sad state of affairs. I am hoping to change it =p.
DragonDefonce
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States790 Posts
October 18 2010 22:25 GMT
#86
Honestly, aside from basic arithmetic (you know, not real math), not everyone needs math. It only is needed for science. Calculus was invented purely for the purposes of physics, differential equations for bunch of other natural sciences, so on and so forth. It became so important during the cold war era when people realized that in order to beat the commies (or the bourgeoisie bastards depending on which side of the iron curtain you were on), reading up on Shakespeare or trying to find historical evidence that Aristotle had gay sex with boys weren't gonna help. That is when you started seeing a lot of resources being put into math and science. Because pre-university curriculum had to be pretty much the same for everyone, even people who were not going into the sciences had to learn it.

Turns out though, you need to have a decent amount of logic and brainpower to do high school math. So it became a sort of a measuring stick for humanities majors also.

And because of the way math is taught, many people go to college and think "oh I did awesome in Algebra in high school" or "calculus is so easy" and decide to major in math, only to realize real math is a pain in the ass that only masochists should attempt to do. And they struggle in agony while us physicists laugh at them and play with our lasers and magnets. But then again, we think we are better than everyone else so its not very surprising. Except for engineers. We know we are better than them
hochs
Profile Joined October 2010
United States10 Posts
October 18 2010 23:51 GMT
#87
On October 19 2010 07:25 DragonDefonce wrote:
Honestly, aside from basic arithmetic (you know, not real math), not everyone needs math. It only is needed for science. Calculus was invented purely for the purposes of physics, differential equations for bunch of other natural sciences, so on and so forth. It became so important during the cold war era when people realized that in order to beat the commies (or the bourgeoisie bastards depending on which side of the iron curtain you were on), reading up on Shakespeare or trying to find historical evidence that Aristotle had gay sex with boys weren't gonna help. That is when you started seeing a lot of resources being put into math and science. Because pre-university curriculum had to be pretty much the same for everyone, even people who were not going into the sciences had to learn it.

Turns out though, you need to have a decent amount of logic and brainpower to do high school math. So it became a sort of a measuring stick for humanities majors also.

And because of the way math is taught, many people go to college and think "oh I did awesome in Algebra in high school" or "calculus is so easy" and decide to major in math, only to realize real math is a pain in the ass that only masochists should attempt to do. And they struggle in agony while us physicists laugh at them and play with our lasers and magnets. But then again, we think we are better than everyone else so its not very surprising. Except for engineers. We know we are better than them


It's fairly well known in academia that physicists tend to focus on intelligence so much because they secretly know they're second to mathematicians, and hence the insecurity. A little blog linked by Terry's blog: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2007/02/25/the-cult-of-genius/

"We don’t put mathemeticians on this scale, because we secretly believe they’re smarter than us"

^^
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 18:40:14
October 20 2010 18:39 GMT
#88
On October 15 2010 17:24 alexpnd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 14:57 kineSiS- wrote:
sex...

What is sex?

Some define it to be a jumble of numbers with confusing orders of operations and tiring algebra...

However, I'd like to put it more eloquently and define it in one word. sex is an art...


However, it is necessary not to stray from the main point of contention that will be discussed today and for possibly many days and weeks from this point on.

Why is sexematics in school?

It's a waste of time some say, others argue its intriguing.


Personally, I think sex is an important and essential subject within the school curriculum. It's a rudimentary subject that seems so simple when first discovered, like a book's first page, is actually complex and intricate with connections intertwined throughout the whole being that it is.

First of all, it is necessary that we learn. By removing a subject from the school curriculum, it's obvious that we are learning less and therefore it is a detriment to our overall bank of knowledge.

Secondly, it is useful in life. Everyday, sex is involved, the number of sections of the sidewalk on your block, or the intricate structure of the skyscraper you saw commuting to work... sex is a fundamental subject, and not only essential it is so much more than just a practicality.

sex is art. Theories created by great minds enrapture young and budding students that wish to learn. Physics, Economics, so many more subjects revolve around sex or utilize sex in such a manner that it is vital.

And to stop here, I wish to let my fellow people discuss this subject. I have discussed why sex is a necessity in order to localize the more broad and open question...

Why do we have sexematics in school?

EDIT:

So I think I haven't made my question quite clear. Here's what I mean:

On October 15 2010 15:14 mieda wrote:
More clarification/verification please:

Do you mean how did sexematics enter liberal arts education historically? Or do you want to discuss "Why should we have sexematics in liberal arts?"

And maybe you left the question, "What do you think sex is?" intentionally vague and very open-ended just to get aimless first responses from people here. I assure you, if you leave the question "What is purpose of sex?" as it is, then you're going to get tons of trolling responses.



In order to set boundaries, and working in conjunction with Mieda, I ask this question....

How did sexematics enter liberal arts education historically?

If you lack the historical background in order to answer this question with comprehension and cognizance, then I also ask this...

Why should we have sexematics in Liberal Arts?



I also would hope that a sort of quid pro quo would be established here, that the effort put into my response would be put into yours.



funnily enough, this just about makes more sense than the OP's version
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
Squeegy
Profile Joined October 2009
Finland1166 Posts
October 20 2010 19:57 GMT
#89
On October 18 2010 06:29 Sky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2010 05:00 Squeegy wrote:
On October 17 2010 21:29 floor exercise wrote:
On October 17 2010 21:16 Squeegy wrote:
On October 15 2010 15:18 Uranium wrote:
Are you serious? Everything IS math. Our own existence could be described perfectly (in theory) using only mathematical functions, thereby proving that WE ARE MATH. MATH IS REAL.

English is purely an invention of our own and not a "rudimentary subject" as you call it. Math is the most elementary subject and everything that you can possibly imagine is actually just math in some form or another.


I don't think the socks I'm wearing right now are math and I am sure your math professor would agree. But if you did mean that everything - except you there - follows the laws of logic, then yeah, that's true. But it doesn't mean everything is logic. My socks for example aren't. They're a type of clothing.

How many socks are you wearing? One on the left foot, one on the right foot?

1 + 1 = 2

Math bro


Yeah, but it still doesn't make my socks math. As I said, try consulting your math professor. Dictionary may be helpful too.


When someone says that everything is math, it usually means everything can be described by math. He's not really stating that the objects you wear are made of an logical language system. He's likely stating that everything existing can be explained using math.

Your statement that socks are just clothing can be similar to stating that you wear objects on your feet that have a specific mass, length, width, and depth in a three dimensional space (A mathematician could explain a sock through math better than I). They are both two different languages, you simply chose to use the word sock, specific to a few languages, to define the things you put on your feet.

Everything currently can be explained by math, but when people find new objects (quarks, mesons, probability events, chemical and evolutional equilibriums, and compounds) they have to rely on math to define it first, then it's up to all the other languages to describe the event in their own way so that it can be more comprehensible. It's all about definition. Now run along and learn a new language from your math professor.


That's now what it means though. They can mean that by it, but it actually means something else. People should say what they mean, or at the very least mean what they say.

And thank you for the encouragement. I do learn math from my professors five days a week.
Stan: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly. Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
57 Corvette
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada5941 Posts
October 20 2010 20:54 GMT
#90
Without math, there is nothing in the world. No Science, No Computers and no organisation.
Survival is winning, everything else is bullshit.
jjun212
Profile Joined December 2004
Canada2208 Posts
October 20 2010 21:51 GMT
#91
math is a pain to learn for some people just outta pure interest but no one can argue that it isn't useful.

i guess from what i can remember; people i knew back in highschool including myself always questioned when would i ever need to know say.. quadratics in order to become like a police officer or an english teacher or a journalist or camera operator, etc.

well maybe you dont need to know it.. but a lot of jobs require aptitude tests and whether the job itself requires math or not, those tests do (mostly simple but you never know)

people these days dont just want one certain type of person. they want a well rounded person. so even if you're in the arts, it couldn't hurt to be adequate with math
Zortch
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada635 Posts
October 20 2010 22:09 GMT
#92
In my opinion the reason math is required as part of a general education its not so much about being able to do the math, but about being about to think is a certain way. This "mathematical" way of thinking about situations is very useful to have.
Respect is everything. ~ARchon
hochs
Profile Joined October 2010
United States10 Posts
October 20 2010 22:22 GMT
#93
On October 21 2010 07:09 Zortch wrote:
In my opinion the reason math is required as part of a general education its not so much about being able to do the math, but about being about to think is a certain way. This "mathematical" way of thinking about situations is very useful to have.


What are some "mathematical" modes of thinking that you have in mind and are referring to?

Unfortunately in USA, most people come out thinking math is about executing/applying series of rules/algorithms to compute something (integrals, derivatives, coefficients of fourier series, multiplying two integers, etc.). Rarely do they learn to think through things logically, creatively, and be able to give precise argument/proof for why certain facts/propositions/theorems are true using definitions, quoting previous theorems.

The latter set of skills is what most idealists would have in mind, but it's so poorly executed by teachers / curriculum now. Sure the idea is great, but it's like D- noobs trying to copy Flash by turtling in base all day long (and getting raped in couple minutes), i.e. execution (how to) for teaching is terrible.

USA had this "new math" thing in the 50's where people actually learned the language of set theory and learned to really prove things from the basic principles. Where did that go?

The reasons for including math in general education is great, but I really think teachers (in k-12 in USA, say) ought to stick to those ideas.
Zortch
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada635 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 22:40:03
October 20 2010 22:38 GMT
#94
Just simply thinking logically and deductively is one example that mathematics and help to teach. Later on, being able to think abstractly becomes essential. A lot of people have trouble with ideas like "Let f be a function." or "Let x be a real number." and through math they can learn to deal with this sort of abstract notion. Then this sort of thinking can be applied to some other situations (maybe haha).
Its not necessarially "mathematical" thinking - maybe that was a poor word choice on my part - so much as ways of thinking that arise naturally and commonly in mathematics and thus can be learned through the study of math.

However, as you pointed out these nice ideas are not always taught very well in practice.
Respect is everything. ~ARchon
hochs
Profile Joined October 2010
United States10 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-20 23:29:54
October 20 2010 23:00 GMT
#95
On October 21 2010 07:38 Zortch wrote:
Just simply thinking logically and deductively is one example that mathematics and help to teach. Later on, being able to think abstractly becomes essential. A lot of people have trouble with ideas like "Let f be a function." or "Let x be a real number." and through math they can learn to deal with this sort of abstract notion. Then this sort of thinking can be applied to some other situations (maybe haha).
Its not necessarially "mathematical" thinking - maybe that was a poor word choice on my part - so much as ways of thinking that arise naturally and commonly in mathematics and thus can be learned through the study of math.

However, as you pointed out these nice ideas are not always taught very well in practice.


I see. I find that also quite important.

There's something I've always had a qualm with in K-12 mathematics in this country (USA). When people teach arithmetic, why do they only teach rules and algorithms for computing addition, multiplication, or division of natural numbers? For example, most people learn how to compute 56*13, say, by the rule 6*3 = 18, then 1 goes above 5, etc. etc. I think it's very rare to find a class where they actually prove that this rule works by using distribute law (which is another rule/law that ought to be discussed more and proved I think) by decomposing 56 = 50 + 6 and 13 = 10 + 3, after having memorized the basic multiplication results for digits of base 10.

There some other things in the current math education where math is reduced to a series of rules/algorithms to follow.

I think the problem may be that tests / assessments in mathematics put too much emphasis on these rules/computations aspects of math, which leads most students to feel that that's what math is all about. I find important what you find important (the kind of thinking you mentioned) but way too many teachers in this country just put easy-to-grade computational problems in their tests. Result: Students learn to think of math as a set of unmotivated rules/algorithms.

Here's a suggestion, tell me what would be wrong with this:

* Teach how to really prove results, and put them on tests as well as the computational kind of math
* In fact when we teach arithmetic just do (elementary) number theory. Prove euclidean algorithm in class and in tests, show representations of integers with different bases, how to add/multiply/divide and prove they work, show unique factorization into primes, etc. for example what you may find in niven & zuckermann's book.
* Instead of the calculus we have now, where students just memorize derivatives and integrals without any motivation, just do real analysis - follow rudin or something. We already have enough of those "calculus for other science majors" running amok, we don't need to do this for an actual math class.

I'm not saying throw out computational math. Computational math is very much part of mathematics, but doing only computation doesn't help students to think "mathematically" at all.

If we're to really teach students how to think "mathematically," then I find the above suggestions quite reasonable. Do exercises in constructing rational numbers from the integers (that are constructed from Peano Axioms) properly, learn that there's something to do to go from rationals to reals (either by dedekind cuts or cauchy-sequences) to have it satisfy nice properties (existence of inf, sup, etc.), and do the god-damn epsilon-delta proof instead of hand-waving "oh limit of x^2 as x goes to 3 is 9 because it looks like it." It will genuinely teach students how to handle abstract data!! One of the merits of doing math is (and should be!) that you learn to write things with precision with solid, valid logical arguments from the definitions and givens.
blankspace
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States292 Posts
October 22 2010 07:12 GMT
#96
Not everyone can handle a high level of abstraction. Probably a lot of you guys were pretty good at math as students and now take the ability to absorb such concepts for granted.

Yes addition and division rules should be explained and justified but just imagine trying to get a group of third graders focused enough to pay attention to you...they'd rather have an efficient way of being "right."

Personally, although I dislike the heavy emphasis on computation and algorithm, I think if students in general were smart enough (I'm obviously talking math smart, not other types of intelligence) to find it trivial there would have been less of it.

Although I really do think that math education in the us could be improved greatly at least in calculus. As it is now, ap calculus is not much different than 6th grade word problems and arithmetic.


Hello friends
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Krystianer vs sOs
SKillous vs ArT
MaNa vs Elazer
Spirit vs Gerald
Clem vs TBD
uThermal vs TBD
Reynor vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
RotterdaM951
ComeBackTV 937
IndyStarCraft 419
CranKy Ducklings145
Rex120
3DClanTV 106
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 951
IndyStarCraft 419
Rex 120
ProTech68
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 12442
Hyuk 3936
Hyun 965
Barracks 763
firebathero 678
Mini 640
Larva 640
BeSt 425
EffOrt 237
Last 86
[ Show more ]
sorry 82
ZerO 73
Noble 50
Shinee 49
zelot 45
Free 41
Soulkey 35
scan(afreeca) 34
soO 24
NaDa 22
yabsab 13
Sacsri 12
Movie 11
Sharp 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Bale 7
Dota 2
XcaliburYe679
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K933
shoxiejesuss601
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor240
Other Games
gofns12937
Beastyqt509
Happy492
SortOf98
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH329
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2266
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3h 34m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
7h 34m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.