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After much testing, I have yet to find a cost effective way to beat the following Terran composition as Zerg:
10 hellions (blue flame)
7 thors (with cannons)
5 vikings
Total: 3850 minerals, 1775 gas (excluding upgrades)
I can't, so maybe you can. And that's my challenge to you. Find a zerg counter to this at the same cost or less in minerals and gas that will beat it. Use a unit tester map and post the results here if you can find it.
Rules:
- zero, zero upgrades for both terran and zerg
- use thor cannons only in the event of ultras (and only 1 cannon per ultra)
- all the more specific upgrades for zerg are allowed (bling speed, crackling, burrow, etc) and will not count towards the mineral/gas limit
- you may micro the zerg
- Replays only. Theorycrafting the solution is a no-no.
- don't bs the terran side (aka. micro the terran's vikings away from the broodlords and running the hellions straight into banelings with a move command). Normal a-move please.
BONUS:
- do it without creep
 
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Is neural parasite allowed? If so I think the task would be rather trivial.
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first off, poorly veiled "i suck at TvZ" blog. Wait for the patch before you complain FFS.
2nd, maybe 6 curruptor, the rest in brood lords. bam.
edit: also, zerg should have more resources anyways. the whole point of the patch is to reduce early game harass so zerg will be more even in the mid game.
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Hmmm...I wonder how much testing your lots of testing was T___T
Immediately thought of so many ways you could do this...
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Burrow roaches will probably work too.
No detection. 
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Sadistx, I think you only had 5 Thor rather than 7 but I think the outcome would have been the same.
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pretty sure 51 roaches could beat that terran mix with no upgrades
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On October 10 2010 16:34 mardi wrote:
pretty sure 51 roaches could beat that terran mix with no upgrades
Plus burrow, plus burrow micro, ezpz.
If the terran didn't micro at all and had no scans, it's possible to do it without losing a single roach, though probably unlikely.
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On October 10 2010 17:06 DeckOneBell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2010 16:34 mardi wrote:
pretty sure 51 roaches could beat that terran mix with no upgrades
Plus burrow, plus burrow micro, ezpz. If the terran didn't micro at all and had no scans, it's possible to do it without losing a single roach, though probably unlikely.
No...its completely impossible to do it without losing a roach...
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On October 10 2010 17:22 ReketSomething wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2010 17:06 DeckOneBell wrote:On October 10 2010 16:34 mardi wrote:
pretty sure 51 roaches could beat that terran mix with no upgrades
Plus burrow, plus burrow micro, ezpz. If the terran didn't micro at all and had no scans, it's possible to do it without losing a single roach, though probably unlikely. No...its completely impossible to do it without losing a roach...
I'm 100% positive it could be done if executed well enough. Unburrow in favorable position, take 1 shot, burrow before thors gets 2nd hammer off, heal, repeat.
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- Replays only. Theorycrafting the solution is a no-no.
On October 10 2010 14:58 hayata2.0 wrote:Burrow roaches will probably work too. No detection.
On October 10 2010 16:34 mardi wrote:
pretty sure 51 roaches could beat that terran mix with no upgrades
On October 10 2010 17:06 DeckOneBell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2010 16:34 mardi wrote:
pretty sure 51 roaches could beat that terran mix with no upgrades
Plus burrow, plus burrow micro, ezpz. If the terran didn't micro at all and had no scans, it's possible to do it without losing a single roach, though probably unlikely.
On October 10 2010 17:22 ReketSomething wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2010 17:06 DeckOneBell wrote:On October 10 2010 16:34 mardi wrote:
pretty sure 51 roaches could beat that terran mix with no upgrades
Plus burrow, plus burrow micro, ezpz. If the terran didn't micro at all and had no scans, it's possible to do it without losing a single roach, though probably unlikely. No...its completely impossible to do it without losing a roach...
On October 10 2010 17:34 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2010 17:22 ReketSomething wrote:On October 10 2010 17:06 DeckOneBell wrote:On October 10 2010 16:34 mardi wrote:
pretty sure 51 roaches could beat that terran mix with no upgrades
Plus burrow, plus burrow micro, ezpz. If the terran didn't micro at all and had no scans, it's possible to do it without losing a single roach, though probably unlikely. No...its completely impossible to do it without losing a roach... I'm 100% positive it could be done if executed well enough. Unburrow in favorable position, take 1 shot, burrow before thors gets 2nd hammer off, heal, repeat.
And we're off to a great start
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United Kingdom12043 Posts
EDIT: Woops, didn't see the no theorycrafting rule.
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[url blocked]
Winner cost: 2.5k/ 1.5k
Not even decent micro either. Could have moved roaches in closer to get the NP's off properly. Only need 100 energy on infestors. Can try to land vikings to snipe infestors but 1 extra infestor to fungal stops that. Also didn't self kill the thors properly since I was trying to land vikings to try it to make it realistic.
Roach speed/NP only upgrades I need.
EDIT: Roach/hydra and pure hydra both failed off creep. I did, however, have success using 10 roaches and 10 hydras and then equal his minerals with lings, run them in frmo the side when the hellions go for the roaches. It seems focus fire is important though to get something like roach hydra to work. Landed vikings in all of these except for first replay but you can clearly see NP makes this trivial, although its very hard to beat thors without NP. I tried landing vikings to snipe infestors but i only got one and it made no difference at all.
EDIT 2: Muta roach works fine even with less minerals, but not nearly as cost effective as NP. If you skimp hellions obviously lings work.
[url blocked]
I think hydra roach works on creep. Also, stuff like ling bombs on the thors is probably really effective, I may test these later.
For the fine gentlemen who argue "lol NP sucks he needs 1 tank to kil 12302131 infestors" I present you: [url blocked] yeah, just NP the tanks in the front. If he clumps tanks drop shit on him.
Ultras work too against a mech comp, i tried to use 250MM cannon asap but its not easy while microing the carpet bomb:
[url blocked]
Yeah i called this one lolmech 2 and the other one was 3 because I forgot it wasn't called lolthors.
EDIT: Igniore extra mineral cost in the last 2, i went even then added overlords which shouldn't be added into the cost.
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Open roach to defend hellions, add NP and infestors to counter the hellion thor push.
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Nice job, Slayer91. All your solutions work and the first solution especially works very cleanly. The extra replays with the tanks was a nice touch as well, though I couldn't open the very last replay because megaupload was giving me some problems with downloading it.
Sadistx, you only used 5 thors instead of 7 but no worries. The outcome had such an overwhelming difference that the end result with 7 thors is obvious and I won't ask you to submit another replay with 7 thors.
To lots of other people, no replays...
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I played around a lot once I found out about the unit tester. It seems roaches and lings both semi-counter thors in that you need slightly more minerals (5 roaches, or 13 lings) but much less gas. Hydras get owned hard. Roach hydra actually doesn't work because thors have enough range that they randomly auto target hydras and it negates the usefulness of having roaches in front. The only time hydras make sense is to help break through the hellion line faster, or kill vikings//marauders if he's mixing those in. I wouldn't go too heavy, either infestor or muta seem to be a much better choice for gas.
List of units that hydras counter: marauders, vikings. Nice. At least sometimes they work well behind your army, or with fungal.
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30 roach
12 baneling (mixed throughout roaches)
10 hydra
easy as pie, move the roach/bling right up in their face before you attack, the baneling explosions & first volley from the roaches will kill most of the hellions, at that point its a joke.
It's also joke easy with 31 roach 15 hydra, but I like adding the banelings so the hellions can't act as a meatshield at all.
I also tried it with pure roach, and 50 roaches poops on that no problem. If you absolutely have to kill the vikings in air mode put 5 hydras in there.
Honestly its difficult to lose to this combo if you have predominantly roaches.
All of these were quite easy without creep. I'm not gonna upload replays, its a waste of my time.
If you use burrow move and T can't detect you can kill it with 51 roaches zero losses, just space your roaches out in a 360 degree circle and unburrow for one attack before immediately re-burrowing. If you space properly you wont lose a single roach.
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On October 10 2010 13:51 The_Pacifist wrote:
After much testing, I have yet to find a cost effective way to beat the following Terran composition as Zerg:
10 hellions (blue flame)
7 thors (with cannons)
5 vikings
Total: 3850 minerals, 1775 gas (excluding upgrades)
I can't, so maybe you can. And that's my challenge to you. Find a zerg counter to this at the same cost or less in minerals and gas that will beat it. Use a unit tester map and post the results here if you can find it.
Rules:
- zero, zero upgrades for both terran and zerg
- use thor cannons only in the event of ultras (and only 1 cannon per ultra)
- all the more specific upgrades for zerg are allowed (bling speed, crackling, burrow, etc) and will not count towards the mineral/gas limit
- you may micro the zerg
- Replays only. Theorycrafting the solution is a no-no.
- don't bs the terran side (aka. micro the terran's vikings away from the broodlords and running the hellions straight into banelings with a move command). Normal a-move please.
BONUS:
- do it without creep
Using the 250mm cannon actually hurts you as a Terran.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159010#7
Don't use it.
I know you and LOTS of other people still use it, but you're actually playing worse by ever using it.
Your challenge is also the perfect example of why you never want to research it as a Terran player vs Zerg - if people in this thread are using lots of infestors versus this unit composition, which is entirely do-able in a real game situation, then the zerg will be able to 250mm your own thors.
that way even if the infestor dies, they will continue the entire animation and damage duration of the ability, whereas if they just attack move the thors onto each other, when the neural parasite ends, so does the attack when the player regains control of the thors.
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EPT
