|
...after about 200 games of SC2 over a period of 7 weeks. My last blog noted the skill level gap in ICCup, but that had nothing to do with the 2 games I played today.
After getting really bored of SC2, I tried my hands on BW. My apm dropped from 230~ in July '10 to 198 in September. I got my butt whupped by a crappy toss because I forgot to build a factory. It wasn't even "oh i'm at 200 gas i forgot to build a factory." It was "holy shit i'm at 800/400 i can build 4 factories now" (i got my gas stolen and I went 1raxcc).
Other noticeable noob mistakes:
Spamming 'a' for marines
Thinking scvs had auto mine and auto repair
Forgot spider mines even existed
Thinking 1a2a3a was good enough for tank/vult
Then I played a second TvP vs another noob, but this time I was more focused on my timing. All I can say is thank god timings don't really matter beyond the 10 minute mark in the D level...
I ended up doing a 1raxcc again (it was on FS, not cause i got my gas stolen), and I remembered my factories this time. Strangely enough, I was surprised by a couple of dark templars. You will never hear a terran say this again: i was actually really happy to see them lmao.
I ended up beating his way bigger army with 12 tanks and 12 vults...which was really weird cause i wasn't even prepared.
SC2 totally killed my BW skills. I actually miss marauders now.
The most noticeable problem I had was definitely multitasking. SC2 allowed you to do most of the required commands with pure hotkeys; it took me forever to shift screens at an effective rate.
The other thing that went out the window was my timing. I couldn't get anything at the right timings; it took me a couple seconds to realize that "oh i need to build a machine shop" when i saw my gas skyrocketing.
My micro was cleaner with less spam, but it was still very ineffective because of the AI. I forgot all of the magic box applications, and the only thing I was good at was hit and run micro.
My macro was okay..it took me a while to get in the zone where i was under 500 minerals for the most part, but I got there. It was still nowhere near my macro capacity 3 months ago.
Strategy did not matter at all because it was a D lv match.
In retrospect, BW is a game of skill. It's like basketball; you can know all the plays in the world, but ultimately, it comes down to physical shape and skill. There aren't that many mind games in the lower levels.
SC2, on the other hand, is more like a simplified mind-game. It's like poker; if you know how to call a bluff and trick people into thinking you're bluffing, then you're all set. There is very little mechanical skill required.
These two games are the polar opposites of each other in my opinion. BW is a game of precision and skill while SC2 is a guessing game. It explains why the 2 games of BW I played today felt more like a true victory than the 200 games of SC2. It's the difference between a victory and a "win."
A victory affects the morale of a person or a team. It takes skill to get a victory. A win does not take skill and does not affect how I feel: it's just an arbitrary term for a game. SC2 is appeals to material wealth. BW appeals to the soul.
 
|
Haha I tried BW again a few nights ago on the Korean hours of ICCup. Needless to say I played a TvP where the toss knew how to macro well...didn't end so well for me even though i was maxed, I forgot to upgrade xD haha, I miss BW a lot T___T
|
=/ Sad story. I can't even get my low D butt onto iccup now.
|
konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
Strangely enough, I was surprised by a couple of dark templars. You will never hear a terran say this again: i was actually really happy to see them lmao.
no fucking way
|
I'm usually happy when I can see Dark Templar, Its when I can't see them that I get angry.
|
Yea I've played Bw a bit as well (zerg) and yea, total loss of skills << Spamming V for ovies and ttttttt for mutas. I feel that Z isn't that bad compared to T and P tho 
|
On September 19 2010 14:34 imBLIND wrote:
Spamming 'a' for marines
omg the hotkey swaps...I can't stop pressing e for probes. My first BW game after SC2 came out was a disaster.
|
i was never a big BW player, but about a month before sc2 came out i decided to get on iccup and see how well i could do. Needless to say, i completely sucked. i played at maybe 50 apm at the most. not to say i dont have any RTS background, i got pretty good in WC3 but never played it TOO much.
after a few months of sc2, i went back and played a bit and i was infinitely better. I play at about 100avg apm in sc2 (i did start at about 40avg apm in bronze, now at 900pt diamond i am much faster), and i was probably doing about 150+ when i went back.
i think BW is just a different skillset, which doesnt mean sc2 killed your BW skills. you simply forgot the hotkeys, a few mechanical differences, etc. BW is much harder to get PROFICIENT at that sc2, but both will take many years of gameplay to master.
|
SC2 killed my BW skills and raped my father.
|
yeah, I agree with this, BW and sc2 are completely different
|
konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On September 19 2010 14:57 SpooN) wrote:
i was never a big BW player, but about a month before sc2 came out i decided to get on iccup and see how well i could do. Needless to say, i completely sucked. i played at maybe 50 apm at the most. not to say i dont have any RTS background, i got pretty good in WC3 but never played it TOO much.
after a few months of sc2, i went back and played a bit and i was infinitely better. I play at about 100avg apm in sc2 (i did start at about 40avg apm in bronze, now at 900pt diamond i am much faster), and i was probably doing about 150+ when i went back.
for non-BW players, SC2 is what helps you build a strong foundation, with all the simple macro, MBS, queued commands and stuff. that's why u "improved" in bw.
however, for frequent BW players, playing SC2 will make you just stagnate in lots of areas, something BW demands and SC2 doesn't. that's why BW players complain about "deproving", case study: OP.
i think i'm stating the obvious though lol
|
ALLEYCAT BLUES50584 Posts
On September 19 2010 14:59 Grobyc wrote:
SC2 killed my BW skills and raped my father.
Thats how gay sc2 is lol.
I thought I could 1a2a my way using just tanks in a TvP in my first game of BW since sc2's release.
it was a fucking nightmare.
|
I only ever play PvZ with my friend who I taught BW to. Now he's D+ and I'm completely terrible. I don't have hotkey problems because I use 0 for Nexus (and essentially every other relevant and in-common Protoss unit has the same hotkey as in SC2), but about the time my first sair is out I fall apart entirely... assuming my build is even near smooth to that point at all.
I'm like wait wtf macro requires actual time management and multitasking abilities? I need to juggle harassing, scouting, teching, and macroing while trying to *think* about what his plan could possibly be?
Though I got annoyed when he called 4 DT drop after a normal forge FE opening cheese. If that bothers him I have a feeling he won't like SC2 at all.
|
konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On September 19 2010 14:59 Grobyc wrote:
SC2 killed my BW skills and raped my father.
wait what
|
On September 19 2010 15:03 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 14:59 Grobyc wrote:
SC2 killed my BW skills and raped my father. Thats how gay sc2 is lol. I thought I could 1a2a my way using just tanks in a TvP in my first game of BW since sc2's release. it was a fucking nightmare.
Flash vs Bisu style? :D
|
On September 19 2010 14:34 imBLIND wrote:
In retrospect, BW is a game of skill. It's like basketball; you can know all the plays in the world, but ultimately, it comes down to physical shape and skill. There aren't that many mind games in the lower levels.
SC2, on the other hand, is more like a simplified mind-game. It's like poker; if you know how to call a bluff and trick people into thinking you're bluffing, then you're all set. There is very little mechanical skill required.
These two games are the polar opposites of each other in my opinion. BW is a game of precision and skill while SC2 is a guessing game. It explains why the 2 games of BW I played today felt more like a true victory than the 200 games of SC2. It's the difference between a victory and a "win."
A victory affects the morale of a person or a team. It takes skill to get a victory. A win does not take skill and does not affect how I feel: it's just an arbitrary term for a game. SC2 is appeals to material wealth. BW appeals to the soul.
YES
this is a great summary of how I feel about SC2 and BW. in SC2 there just isn't that visceral satisfaction that you can get from performing well in BW (such as macroing/microing/controlling huge army/etc).
|
BW appeals to the soul.
Amen.
5/5
|
Great write-up.
I noticed the same thing with hotkeys, hitting A for marines, V for overlord, D for dark templars (completely effed my DT rush so many times, maybe its a sign).
I now just play both at the same time and consider them 2 different games. Once I got that paradigm worked out, I stopped making hotkey mistakes.
I think you hit the nail on the head there. I'm more of the sporty type, especially when playing games. I tend to out-do an opponent rather than out-think. Which maybe is the reason I prefer BW.
On September 19 2010 14:50 Altar wrote:
I'm usually happy when I can see Dark Templar, Its when I can't see them that I get angry.
I chuckled.
|
Yeah plus you feel like you're better when you're "Gold" League in sc2 instead of "D-" in Bw.... Lol my life.
|
On September 19 2010 14:50 Altar wrote:
I'm usually happy when I can see Dark Templar, Its when I can't see them that I get angry.
lol ur owning the blogs today
|
konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On September 19 2010 14:50 Altar wrote:
I'm usually happy when I can see Dark Templar, Its when I can't see them that I get angry.
omg lol so good
|
Haha I just reinstalled bw & iccup. This should be interesting.
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
^ wWHY DID U UNINSTALL IT IN THE FIRST PLACe.
FFFFff
anyway nice blog heh
|
very nice OP. i totally agree with you. I can't wait to start playing bw again...just one week of college work lies between me and infinite nerdrage. (and REAL zerg)
|
BW for improvement, SC2 for bashing. This is how I rule baby!
On September 19 2010 14:50 Altar wrote:
I'm usually happy when I can see Dark Templar, Its when I can't see them that I get angry.
I swear I was about to write that before I saw your post 
|
On September 19 2010 14:50 Altar wrote:
I'm usually happy when I can see Dark Templar, Its when I can't see them that I get angry.
sigged.
|
This is so weird because when I thought about playing starcraft today I actually pictured BW and not SC2... too bad I don't have it installed on my new comp I'd probably try to jump back into it.
The funny part is that I think my BW play improved since I've played SC2. I started playing BW a couple of months before beta was released. Got to mid-D+ in one season with exactly 50% wlr and felt pretty accomplished. I feel like my macro is the only thing that didn't allow me to go higher than that.
After playing SC2 for a few months (throughout beta and a month after release) I feel like macro is not such a big deal anymore... I actually spend my money now and make overlords consistently, for the most part. I feel like I could get at least C-/C Iccup after about a month of playing at the same rate I play SC2 XD
PS: Too bad there were only ~700 people playing BW on ICCup today. =( Remember the days when BW had more people online than DoTA and WC3 (sometimes combined)???
|
On September 19 2010 14:54 Torenhire wrote:omg the hotkey swaps...I can't stop pressing e for probes. My first BW game after SC2 came out was a disaster.
I'm the opposite. I havent played BW in a while, and wasnt never super duper competitive, but I still managed to burn the hotkeys into muscle memory forever. For some reason SC2 siege mode took especially long to get used to. I think if I panic, I will still hit the BW keys from time to time, also for offrace... ><.
But I think no automine is going to be painful and obvious if you go back to bw haha
|
I agree with this post a lot. BW wins are just so satisfying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
